TRUMP 2024 (Page 25/59)
BingB JAN 30, 01:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Obviously, what you're saying is intentionally misleading. Under Trump, we INCREASED Federal tax revenue by cutting taxes (ask me to explain if you don't understand how this works). We had record revenue year over year with low inflation. Our deficits did not increase by any perceivable margin, .


I don't blame Trump for the financial disaster in his final year. So I usually compare his first three years to Obama's final three years. But since you brought up the issue of which party controlled congress I will just compare Trumps first two years to Obama's final two years. Republicans controlled both houses of congress during this 4 year stretch. The numbers listed are the two year averages.

'15-'16. . $513 billion deficit. . 2.2% GDP Growth. . 2.75% deficit percentage of GDP
'17-'18. . $722 billion deficit. . 2.55% GDP Growth. . 3.6% deficit percentage of GDP.

If you do the math you will see that Trump increased growth by 16%, but increased the yearly deficit by 41%. Deficit as percentage of GDP was 31% higher under Trump than Obama.

BTW only one year of the '17-'18 numbers include the "Trump tax cuts". When you look at '19 the deficit grew to $984 billion which was 4.6% of GDP. Trumps economy was just throwing gas on a fire that was already there. Problem was that the gas cost more than the heat it provided.

82-T/A [At Work] JAN 30, 02:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by BingB:

I don't blame Trump for the financial disaster in his final year. So I usually compare his first three years to Obama's final three years. But since you brought up the issue of which party controlled congress I will just compare Trumps first two years to Obama's final two years. Republicans controlled both houses of congress during this 4 year stretch. The numbers listed are the two year averages.

'15-'16. . $513 billion deficit. . 2.2% GDP Growth. . 2.75% deficit percentage of GDP
'17-'18. . $722 billion deficit. . 2.55% GDP Growth. . 3.6% deficit percentage of GDP.

If you do the math you will see that Trump increased growth by 16%, but increased the yearly deficit by 41%. Deficit as percentage of GDP was 31% higher under Trump than Obama.

BTW only one year of the '17-'18 numbers include the "Trump tax cuts". When you look at '19 the deficit grew to $984 billion which was 4.6% of GDP. Trumps economy was just throwing gas on a fire that was already there. Problem was that the gas cost more than the heat it provided.




I need you to be VERY clear about what you're saying. Are you saying that the Trump Tax cuts resulted in higher deficits? Please be clear about what you're saying... because if that's what you're saying, I'm ready to correct you.

EDIT: I'll save you the effort... https://www.investors.com/p...l-revenues-deficits/
"Go Figure: Federal Revenues Hit All-Time Highs Under Trump Tax Cuts "

Also, can you be clear when you talk about "gas" ... are you just making a colloquialism, or are you actually talking about gas prices? Because gas prices under Trump were quite low. Average per year was about ~$2.25 with the highest average hitting $2.80 at its worst, and $1.80 at its lowest.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-30-2024).]

BingB JAN 30, 02:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Also, absolutely no one here actually believes you would vote for Haley over Biden. So don't insult us by saying stupid things.


First of all I did not realize you spoke for everyone here, but I am sorry to say that you are all wrong. Here is my voting history.

1988. I was 19 and did not care about politics, but I was excited to be able to vote. I voted for Busch because Dukakis looked like a dork.

1992. I was much more knowledgeable about politics. Bush was former director of CIA and I just could not believe he had no hand in the Iran Contra deal. Clinton seemed young and cool. Plus he had that hot brainy wife



1996. Things going good. Stay with Bill.

2000. Would have voted for McCain because he was seen as a "maverick" back then who was not bound by party ties, but "W" seemed like the classic unqualified "heir" to a privileged bloodline. I voted for Gore, but it was more of a vote against Bush.

2004. Was totally psyched when we sent troops into Afghanistan. Was totally PO'd when we sent troops into Iraq. Voted for Kerry.

2008. McCain had learned his lesson from '00. He was a bootlicker for the party line in '08. Most people forget that the election was a dead heat until he picked Sarah Palin as his running mate. Shocking, crazy move. I would have voted for Obama over anyone. Economy was in shambles due to lack of regulation on the banking industry. Obama also ran hard on health care reform which is an issue I feel strongly about.

2012. Even though I did not vote for Romney in 2012, I would have voted for him over Hillary in 2016 if he had been the Republican nominee instead of Trump.

2016. Could not vote for Trump. Con man. Liar. nasty human being. I know the way the right feels about Hillary, but the truth is that she has probably been the single most investigated politician in history and nothing ever stuck. I am not a big Hillary fan at all, but Trump has been flat out busted and proven in courts of law to be a liar and a con man. I can not understand why so many people trust him.

2020. See 2016. Biden actually had a long history of working deals in Washington, but he did not look or act well on the campaign trail. Had to vote against Trump,

2024. I first said that I would not vote if it was Biden v. Trump. But I have decided that I will have to vote against Trump again. I kept thinking that the Dems would run someone else. They would have had to do it from the very beginning of the campaign. It is too late now. I am afraid Biden might not even make it through the campaign. Then what would they do. Kamala Harris? No way. I doubt she could even get a majority of votes from black women. I am rooting for Haley.
olejoedad JAN 30, 02:45 PM
That Teachers Mafia has you by the short hairs, doesn't it?
82-T/A [At Work] JAN 30, 02:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by BingB:

First of all I did not realize you spoke for everyone here, but I am sorry to say that you are all wrong. Here is my voting history.

1988. I was 19 and did not care about politics, but I was excited to be able to vote. I voted for Busch because Dukakis looked like a dork.

1992. I was much more knowledgeable about politics. Bush was former director of CIA and I just could not believe he had no hand in the Iran Contra deal. Clinton seemed young and cool. Plus he had that hot brainy wife



1996. Things going good. Stay with Bill.

2000. Would have voted for McCain because he was seen as a "maverick" back then who was not bound by party ties, but "W" seemed like the classic unqualified "heir" to a privileged bloodline. I voted for Gore, but it was more of a vote against Bush.

2004. Was totally psyched when we sent troops into Afghanistan. Was totally PO'd when we sent troops into Iraq. Voted for Kerry.

2008. McCain had learned his lesson from '00. He was a bootlicker for the party line in '08. Most people forget that the election was a dead heat until he picked Sarah Palin as his running mate. Shocking, crazy move. I would have voted for Obama over anyone. Economy was in shambles due to lack of regulation on the banking industry. Obama also ran hard on health care reform which is an issue I feel strongly about.

2012. Even though I did not vote for Romney in 2012, I would have voted for him over Hillary in 2016 if he had been the Republican nominee instead of Trump.

2016. Could not vote for Trump. Con man. Liar. nasty human being. I know the way the right feels about Hillary, but the truth is that she has probably been the single most investigated politician in history and nothing ever stuck. I am not a big Hillary fan at all, but Trump has been flat out busted and proven in courts of law to be a liar and a con man. I can not understand why so many people trust him.

2020. See 2016. Biden actually had a long history of working deals in Washington, but he did not look or act well on the campaign trail. Had to vote against Trump,

2024. I first said that I would not vote if it was Biden v. Trump. But I have decided that I will have to vote against Trump again. I kept thinking that the Dems would run someone else. They would have had to do it from the very beginning of the campaign. It is too late now. I am afraid Biden might not even make it through the campaign. Then what would they do. Kamala Harris? No way. I doubt she could even get a majority of votes from black women. I am rooting for Haley.




You'll forgive me Fred, if I tell you that I don't believe any of that.

I voted for Clinton in 1996... but I didn't really know any better and my teachers were telling me to vote for him, and it was the first election I was old enough to vote for. Plus he visited our high school that same year. I liked most of his policies (what little I understood), but I realize now most of what was great about Clinton is that he worked well with the Republican House and Senate... e.g., Contract w/ America. His other policies are roughly identical to what Trump's policies are today.
BingB JAN 30, 02:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I need you to be VERY clear about what you're saying. Are you saying that the Trump Tax cuts resulted in higher deficits? Please be clear about what you're saying... because if that's what you're saying, I'm ready to correct you.

EDIT: I'll save you the effort... https://www.investors.com/p...l-revenues-deficits/
"Go Figure: Federal Revenues Hit All-Time Highs Under Trump Tax Cuts "






"Revenue" is how much money you have coming in. It is only part of the picture.

"Government spending" increases revenue. Trump increased revenue by increasing government spending.

The gap between "revenue" and "government spending" is called the "yearly deficit". So even though Trump increased "revenue" he did it by pumping a lot more "government spending" into the economy than Obama had to.

Since GDP grows every year our revenue should grow steadily every year. So it is hard to compare raw totals/numbers. Instead you need to look at the percentage of deficit to GDP every year. It is possible to increase the deficit in a year and actually reduce the percentage of GDP if the deficit spending produces enough additional revenue. Trump did increase revenue, but he needed too much deficit spending to create those revenue. In 19 the deficit was 4.6% of GDP compared to about 2.8% under Obama.
olejoedad JAN 30, 03:13 PM
Yeah, rebuilding the military after the previous administration underfunded it was expensive.
BingB JAN 30, 03:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I realize now most of what was great about Clinton is that he worked well with the Republican House and Senate... e.g., Contract w/ America. His other policies are roughly identical to what Trump's policies are today.




Clinton had the benefit of an economic boom in the 90's. I don't give his policies that much credit. It is easy to pass welfare reform when the country is in a long term economic boom. But he did keep us out of any big stupid military actions that would have sucked up all the profits.

Clinton raised taxes on the top 1% and fought to remove tariffs for "free trade". Doesn't really sound like what Trump did.

And I remember the country being shut down multiple times because Clinton would not work with congress.
82-T/A [At Work] JAN 30, 03:35 PM

quote
Originally posted by BingB:"Revenue" is how much money you have coming in. It is only part of the picture.

"Government spending" increases revenue. Trump increased revenue by increasing government spending.

The gap between "revenue" and "government spending" is called the "yearly deficit". So even though Trump increased "revenue" he did it by pumping a lot more "government spending" into the economy than Obama had to.

Since GDP grows every year our revenue should grow steadily every year. So it is hard to compare raw totals/numbers. Instead you need to look at the percentage of deficit to GDP every year. It is possible to increase the deficit in a year and actually reduce the percentage of GDP if the deficit spending produces enough additional revenue. Trump did increase revenue, but he needed too much deficit spending to create those revenue. In 19 the deficit was 4.6% of GDP compared to about 2.8% under Obama.




NOPE...

Congress spent more money, yes... they increased the deficit yes... but the Trump Tax cuts directly led to record tax revenue. This is WELL understood by everyone. Here are some links:

https://www.investors.com/p...l-revenues-deficits/
https://www.heritage.org/ta...trumps-tax-cuts-paid


Here's even a link from PolitiFact, which says it's mostly false, and then literally proceeds to explain that it's actually true:
https://www.politifact.com/...er-trump-tax-cuts-s/

"Total receipts, which include individual and corporate income taxes as well as estate taxes, excise taxes, and tariff duties, were up between the first 10 months of 2017 and the first 10 months of 2018. The rise was modest -- less than 1 percent -- but it was an increase."

Which is what makes the truth it that much sweeter... (not to mention these were preliminary numbers, and they ended up better than that).


The way it works is, with the reduction in corporate tax, you had corporations bringing cash from overseas into the U.S.. Again... you don't need a historian for this, this was just 6 years ago... this is what the whole plan was, and everyone was talking about it. It led to increased corporate spending, which resulted in the hiring of more workers. More workers means more payroll tax and personal income tax being paid.


Here's more articles: https://austinscott.house.g...uts-cbo-report-shows
Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/article...ir-share-11675959323

Here's another from 5 days ago saying it worked so well that Biden is hoping to continue several of Trump's tax cut policies: https://www.bloomberg.com/n...-some-trump-tax-cuts


Tax revenue had nothing to do with government spending. It had nothing to do with any of the nonsense you're talking about. The Congress (and Trump) did increase spending, DESPITE the fact that they also had increased revenue. Big shock... Republicans like to spend money almost as much as Democrats do. I still find it hilarious though that you give Obama credit for the deficit of the last two and four years of his presidency, when it was under Republican control... they literally refused to let him spend money. And then the first 4 years of his presidency, deficit spending was increased when they had a super majority for the first two years. It speaks to the hypocrisy of the left...

Hopefully in 3 months, you won't start repeating this nonsense again as if it was soooo long ago that it requires historians to tell us what to think about it.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-30-2024).]

82-T/A [At Work] JAN 30, 03:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by BingB:Clinton had the benefit of an economic boom in the 90's. I don't give his policies that much credit. It is easy to pass welfare reform when the country is in a long term economic boom. But he did keep us out of any big stupid military actions that would have sucked up all the profits.

Clinton raised taxes on the top 1% and fought to remove tariffs for "free trade". Doesn't really sound like what Trump did.

And I remember the country being shut down multiple times because Clinton would not work with congress.




Once again, a gross misrepresentation of what happened.

Clinton threatened increased tariffs across the board, and used it as a negotiating tool to LOWER tariffs between multiple trade partners, including China, African countries, and Mexico / Canada with NAFTA. Unfortunately... Canada exploited a loophole which dramatically hurt the U.S. economy in the North East, and then Mexico exploited that same loophole stealing the same business away from Canada that they had stolen from the United States just a decade before. That's been mostly addressed with the USMCA.

Again... Bill Clinton was quite moderate... his wife is a radical leftist, but Bill Clinton was fairly moderate, in nearly the exact same way Trump is. Matter of fact, the same people that voted for Clinton are the same people who voted for Trump. Their immigration policies are nearly the same, and both sought to normalize trade and used tariffs as a threat to create trade agreements. Bill Clinton DID work with Congress. He was under pressure from his own party to try to pass new welfare entitlements, which he was not particularly a fan of. The shutdowns were a joke. The Republicans were far more harsh to Obama... lol.

And what are you talking about? Clinton was involved in dozens of military skirmishes... they just weren't Bush / Obama like. Did you forget about Kosevo, Haiti, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Libya, Bosnia? ... what am I missing?


Dude, stop with your nonsense... this is really getting lame.