is the right really "against democracy" (Page 2/10) olejoedad AUG 20, 01:45 PM Republicans are in opposition to the Democrats bastardization of the Constitution. The 17th Amendment is one of those bastardizations. The United States of America was named as such, because in the Constitution, the governments of the States also had a voice. That is no longer so, and we effectively now have to House of Representatives. Let me ask a question, along the same lines..... Do you still beat your wife? BingB AUG 20, 02:02 PM quote Originally posted by olejoedad: The United States of America was named as such, because in the Constitution, the governments of the States also had a voice. That is no longer so, and we effectively now have to House of Representatives. Anyone who says we have two House of representatives just does not understand the very basics of the Constitution. The main difference in the two chambers of legislature was the level of representation of each state. The 17th Amendment did nothing to change that. BingB AUG 20, 02:06 PM quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Let me ask a question, along the same lines..... Do you still beat your wife? I did not ask you a "loaded question" that includes a presumption of guilt. So how is "Do you want to repeal the 17th Amendment?" along the same lines as "Do you still beat your wife?" Seems like you want to be against democracy, but you don't want anyone to know. olejoedad AUG 20, 03:09 PM Think what you want, no one here is stopping you. Your question was loaded, just as mine was. A better question would be 'Are you still abusing children by teaching them perverted history of our Country?". BingB AUG 20, 03:31 PM quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Your question was loaded, just as mine was. . Only if you believe beating your wife is the same as repealing the 17th Amendment. That kind of worries me since you support repealing the 17th Amrendment. cliffw AUG 20, 04:20 PM quote Originally posted by BingB: Anyone who says we have two House of representatives just does not understand the very basics of the Constitution. The main difference in the two chambers of legislature was the level of representation of each state. The 17th Amendment did nothing to change that. The Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution established the direct election of United States Senators in each state. The amendment supersedes Article I, Section 3, Clauses 1 and 2 of the Constitution, under which senators were elected by state legislatures. Only a fool would believe that the States wanted less than more representative bodies. BingB AUG 20, 04:26 PM quote Originally posted by cliffw: Only a fool would believe that the States wanted less than more representative bodies. States still have exactly the same representative bodies and same number of senators. how do you figure they have "less"? cliffw AUG 20, 04:31 PM quote Originally posted by BingB: States still have exactly the same representative bodies and same number of senators. how do you figure they have "less"? If States want to change the Senate to be like a House, why not demand population representative numbers. BingB AUG 20, 04:46 PM quote Originally posted by cliffw: If States want to change the Senate to be like a House, why not demand population representative numbers. No one is demanding that. Everyone agrees with the current different representation levels in both chambers. The only dispute is between people who believe that the citizens should be able to chose their senators and the people who want to take that power away from them and give it to the government. Funny thing is that most of the people who want to give this power to the government are the same ones that complain about government HAVING TOO MUCH POWER. The only reason these people have been duped into supporting this anti-democratic strategy is that Republicans hold a majority of State legislature seats. So they are willing to give up their individual rights and give them to the government just to support their party. williegoat AUG 20, 04:48 PM “Democracy” does not adequately or accurately describe our form of government. We have elements of democracy, but we are not a democracy. Jim is just trying to start an argument that he thinks he can win, simply because he gets to decide the rules. Conservatives, the Right, Republicans are not “against democracy” any more than mechanics are against Philips screwdrivers. I have tools, some of which are Philips screwdrivers, but a screwdriver is not the right tool to torque the heads on my Shovelhead. I use a Philips screwdriver to remove some parts that make it easier to reach the head bolts, but “tool” does not equal “screwdriver.” I tried to explain it in simple terms that a child could understand. Jim couldn’t argue with that so he decided to argue against things that I never said. Jim is nothing but a troll.