Inflation fears (Page 2/2)
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 10, 01:01 PM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

I don't even know what you are claiming I said that was wrong. We both agree that the government bailed out General Motors. I just pointed out that the only people who said we should let General Motors collapse were conservatives.

So what is "so completely wrong" about what I said?



I think you're misrepresenting what Republicans were stating here (intentionally?). The view from the majority of conservatives who believed GM should be on their own, is that they should go through restructuring THEMSELVES. They could have filed for Chapter 11, and didn't need the direction of the Federal government. That "cash infusion" and the government directly involving itself, was an intent to bail out the union to prevent the pensions from collapsing. It had far less to do with GM, and much more to do with that.

Most people believed that GM could have gone into court, and UAW union employees would have probably lost a significant portion of their pension because the UAW was also teetering on the brink of bankruptcy as well. I feel for them, but that's not really GM's problem, or the taxpayer's problem. Neither GM or Chrysler really was immediately at risk for going bankrupt, but it was highly advised to them that this would be a good thing and solve a lot of problems for them. Ford chose not to do this, and they've been fine. If GM and Chrysler (oddly enough) decided to file for bankruptcy at the same time... without the help of the Federal government, it's very likely they would still exist and be under different private ownership ... but the UAW would have likely also filed for bankruptcy... and then the Obama administration would have had to beg / ask Congress to bail THEM out... which is far less palatable to the voting public.

fredtoast AUG 11, 12:24 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

They could have filed for Chapter 11, and didn't need the direction of the Federal government...




They did file Chapter 11 bankruptcy in June of 2009. They were forced to do this because Obama turned down their last request for additional loans from the government.

And to thinl you were the one accusing me of not knowing what happened with General Motors.
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 11, 02:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

They did file Chapter 11 bankruptcy in June of 2009. They were forced to do this because Obama turned down their last request for additional loans from the government. And to thinl you were the one accusing me of not knowing what happened with General Motors.



Please re-read my post. You've somehow inferred ignorance on something I've not expressed. The question I have is, do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you intentionally misrepresenting (in seriousness) in hopes that you "score points?"

What I said specifically is, "The view from the majority of conservatives who believed GM should be on their own, is that they should go through restructuring THEMSELVES. They could have filed for Chapter 11, and didn't need the direction of the Federal government."

You should take this to understand that they didn't need the help of the Federal government to file Chapter 11. It was already understood that General Motors filed Chapter 11. This was the "sky is blue" minimum basic information that we all understood in this discussion.
cliffw AUG 11, 05:35 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Also, I assumed everyone know what the deal was with General Motors and Chrysler. That was a UAW bailout. President Obama purchased General Motors through a wholesale transaction in a forced bankruptcy which led to ownership of GM under "Preferred Shares." Because you cannot do anything with preferred shares, they were converted to common stock overnight. ...
In the end, they gave the entirety of Chrysler to the UAW... literally just gave it to them, and gave a huge portion of General Motors to the UAW also.



The baiIouts also caused private investors in automotive stock market to lose millions.
fredtoast AUG 12, 11:41 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


Please re-read my post. You've somehow inferred ignorance on something I've not expressed. The question I have is, do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you intentionally misrepresenting (in seriousness) in hopes that you "score points?"

What I said specifically is, "The view from the majority of conservatives who believed GM should be on their own, is that they should go through restructuring THEMSELVES. They could have filed for Chapter 11, and didn't need the direction of the Federal government."

You should take this to understand that they didn't need the help of the Federal government to file Chapter 11. It was already understood that General Motors filed Chapter 11. This was the "sky is blue" minimum basic information that we all understood in this discussion.



Sorry, but I did not understand what you meant by "direction of the federal government".

But I don't believe GM would have had a qualifying plan for viability to make a chapter 11 work without the influx of federal assistance. The private lending market was in shambles. There would have been no financing available other than from the government. GM would have gone into liquidation instead of reorganization. That would have been a major disaster. GM would have disappeared and hundreds of thousands of people would have lost their lifetime retirement.
fredtoast AUG 12, 11:44 AM

quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


The baiIouts also caused private investors in automotive stock market to lose millions.



Not sure this is true, but it does not change anything. Investors understand that they could lose their investments. People with GM retirement plans were not supposed to be taking any market risks.
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 12, 12:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:
Sorry, but I did not understand what you meant by "direction of the federal government".

But I don't believe GM would have had a qualifying plan for viability to make a chapter 11 work without the influx of federal assistance. The private lending market was in shambles. There would have been no financing available other than from the government. GM would have gone into liquidation instead of reorganization. That would have been a major disaster. GM would have disappeared and hundreds of thousands of people would have lost their lifetime retirement.



Yes, you do understand what I'm saying. The UAW was the organization that was at risk of losing everything. They were big donors to the Democrat party.

President Obama strongly put his thumb down to force GM, Chrysler, and Ford into bankruptcy... in order to restructure them in a way that it would save the UAW. The union was effectively given ownership of a huge portion of General Motors, and all of Chrysler (which they sold). This is most certainly, not any kind of normal process. GM, Chrysler, and Ford didn't NEED to file for bankruptcy at the time. They were actually getting by... it was the union that was failing. And before you misrepresent this post, yes... I'm aware that Ford did not file for bankruptcy. I purchased the stock because I knew Ford's financials were fantastic, and I knew (not insider trading, but had a hunch) they would tell the Government to shove off, and that day... Ford stock went from $2.80 to over $14 bucks. Yes, it was great... made a lot of money with that. Ford was being heavily pressured to file for bankruptcy too. But Bill Ford (who was CEO at the time) was like, F'-no... but still decided to participate in the Congressional hearings to "provide support to his industry partners."

I cannot be any more clear than I already have. I'm not interested in wasting any more time as you try to convince yourself that somehow what happened didn't happen.
fredtoast AUG 12, 12:53 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

GM, Chrysler, and Ford didn't NEED to file for bankruptcy at the time. They were actually getting by... it was the union that was failing.



I don't know what you mean by this at all. GM was suffering MASSIVE losses. How was GM "getting by" when they could not meet their operating costs. How is that the UAW failing? UAW did not run Genral Motors or make any of the management decisions that forced them into bankruptcy.

[This message has been edited by fredtoast (edited 08-12-2023).]

williegoat AUG 12, 12:59 PM
Kamala just loves venn diagrams!



[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 08-12-2023).]

fredtoast AUG 12, 02:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Kamala just loves venn diagrams!









What definition of "aristocracy" are you using to make them members of labor unions?

I just don't see members of the highest classes in our society in labor unions? Who exactly are you talking about?