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| Take THAT climate ! (Page 2/3) |
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Valkrie9
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FEB 10, 01:51 PM
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MidEngineManiac
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FEB 10, 02:02 PM
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aWW, HELLL...
C'man man !
I do love a dietary methane challenge but keeping up with THAT is way out of my league. I'm only semi-pro.
Your going to need to talk to Justin and Joe if you want THAT amount of hot air.
Sheeeet, I fold on that one.
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MidEngineManiac
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FEB 10, 02:46 PM
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BTW....for the "warmers"...
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Valkrie9
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FEB 10, 03:29 PM
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You know, it freezes before it hits the ground. ' Clank ! '
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rinselberg
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FEB 11, 04:07 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
I have asked you before and not even maven rinselberg could answer about what instrument reports [carbon dioxide or CO2] levels. What other color gasses are there? [CO2] is not the largest quantity of gasses. We hear of various level of allergies there are and the quantities. Why is that not true of all the gasses (which are lighter than air) in the atmosphere?
Climate mitigation is wearing more clothes, less clothes, using a heater [or] building a fire, running the A/C. |
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Great questions, as always, from forum member "cliffw".
Let's start with the monitoring of CO2 and other greenhouse gases by direct measurements of air samples:
| quote | | The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Global Monitoring Laboratory has measured carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases for several decades through a globally distributed network of about 70 air sampling sites, including the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawai’i. The data for this indicator come from a subset of about 40 of these sites located in isolated regions of the ocean. |
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The "indicator" is a reference to the Annual Greenhouse Gas Index (AGGI) data that NOAA maintains.
It's all explained very succinctly on this NOAA web page: https://www.globalchange.go...heric-carbon-dioxide
Data from air samples has been augmented by data from earth orbiting satellites; this was published in October 2008:
| quote | NASA is getting ready to launch a first-of-its-kind satellite that can measure the sources and sinks for carbon dioxide around the planet, in January 2009.
The Orbiting Carbon Observatory is an incredible new tool in the global effort to understand climate change that will fill in the gaps left by ground measuring stations in parts of North America, Europe and Asia. The new satellite mission dovetails with a newly-announced plan by Virgin Galactic and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to measure carbon dioxide concentrations in the upper stratosphere, mesosphere and lower thermosphere with Virgin's high altitude carrier aircraft, White Knight Two, and its spacefaring companion, SpaceShipTwo.
The Economist just published a great article on the two new systems that explains how together they might finally offer us the high resolution map of carbon sources and sinks that scientists need to more accurately understand how, where and why carbon dioxide is entering and exiting the atmosphere.
The NASA satellite will measure sunlight reflecting off the planet and calculate what gases are present in a 6-mile-wide column of gas to an accuracy of one part per million. Inserted into a polar orbit, the satellite will fly over the polar cap every 16 days, like a string being wrapped around the planet in 6-mile swaths. |
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"CO2 Monitoring Satellite, Virgin Galactic Team Up" Loretta HIdalgo Whitesides for Wired; October 7, 2008. https://www.wired.com/2008/10/carbon-monitori/
The European Space Agency has satellite launches planned for 2026:
| quote | ESA, the European Commission, Eumetsat and industrial partners are therefore working extremely hard to get the Copernicus Anthropogenic Carbon Dioxide Monitoring (CO2M) mission ready for liftoff. . . .
The two CO2M satellites will each carry a near-infrared and shortwave-infrared spectrometer to measure atmospheric carbon dioxide at high spatial resolution. These measurements will be used by the new CO2M Monitoring and Verification Support Capacity, which the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts is developing, and which will eventually reduce uncertainties in estimates of emissions of carbon dioxide from the combustion of fossil fuel at local, national and regional scales.
The two CO2M satellites are scheduled to be launched sequentially in 2026 and are qualified to operate as a constellation for 7.5 years in orbit, with fuel to extend their life to 12 years. |
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ESA press release; May 23, 2022. https://www.esa.int/Applica...e_monitoring_mission
It's all based on the "fingerprints" of carbon dioxide; more technically, the Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide. (Other greenhouse gases, such as methane, have their own uniquely distinctive IR absorption spectrums.)

Air samples are analyzed for these fingerprints in a laboratory using an Infrared Spectrometer.
An earth-orbiting satellite can measure the IR fingerprints of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases with sensors onboard the satellite that capture the infrared sunlight that's being reflected to the satellite from the earth's atmosphere and land and ocean surfaces.
Or going one better (so to speak), an earth-orbiting satellite can be equipped with a "sounder" which uses the LIDAR technique to transmit IR pulses downwards from orbit towards the earth and capture the returns that come back to the satellite as IR reflections from the earth's atmosphere and land and ocean surfaces. The fingerprints of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are the IR absorption lines, and their frequencies and intensities are recovered by computer analysis of the IR reflection data. This is how the European Space Agency's Carbon Dioxide Monitoring Mission or CO2M will be doing it, after the satellites are launched in 2026.

 Measuring carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases from a satellite in polar orbit.
"cliffw", if you're listening...[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-11-2023).]
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MidEngineManiac
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FEB 15, 04:39 PM
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cliffw
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FEB 18, 10:53 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg: The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Global Monitoring Laboratory has measured carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases for several decades through a globally distributed network of about 70 air sampling sites, including the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawai’i. The data for this indicator come from a subset of about 40 of these sites located in isolated regions of the ocean. |
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I knew it. Your the kind-a guy who will hire a wolf to guard a chicken house.
Has the NOAA data, umm, claim been corroborated ? Are we to trust one administration's partisan opinion ? Or Government at all ?
Do you not remember the deceptive placement of the sampling sites of the initial Global Warming fear mongering ? The e-mail scandal Global Warming debacle ? Among the UN's international Global Warming scientist.
| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg: It's all based on the "fingerprints" of carbon dioxide; more technically, the Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide. (Other greenhouse gases, such as methane, have their own uniquely distinctive IR absorption spectrums.)The Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide ? |
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The Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide ? Please do elaborate. Why can't I have a crystal bowl ? The absorption of light can only be detected in Space ? How convenient.
| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg: Air samples are analyzed for these fingerprints in a laboratory using an Infrared Spectrometer. |
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Do you have one ? Where can I get one ? What's that phrase ? Your second favorite President coined it. Ah yes. "Trust but verify".
| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg: An earth-orbiting satellite can measure the IR fingerprints of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases with sensors onboard the satellite that capture the infrared sunlight that's being reflected to the satellite from the earth's atmosphere and land and ocean surfaces. |
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So, are you are saying that all CO2 can change the speed of light ? What kind of bullzhit is that ? Do you even investigate the bullzhit you are eating ? Have you ever beat a speeding ticket generated from RADAR ? I have, a couple of times.Many electronics have to be regularly calibrated. As do musical instruments need to be regularly tuned. In fact, NORAD had to change the calibration on their equipment to detect balloons.
| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg: Or going one better (so to speak), an earth-orbiting satellite can be equipped with a "sounder" which uses the LIDAR technique to transmit IR pulses downwards from orbit towards the earth and capture the returns that come back to the satellite as IR reflections from the earth's atmosphere and land and ocean surfaces. The fingerprints of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are the IR absorption lines, and their frequencies and intensities are recovered by computer analysis of the IR reflection data. This is how the [color=green]European Space Agency's Carbon Dioxide Monitoring Mission [/green] or CO2M will be doing it, after the satellites are launched in 2026. |
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Ah, yes. The ESACDMM . The same theory as sonar and radar. Why don't they uses sonar or radar to measure CO2 ? LIDAR
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williegoat
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FEB 18, 11:12 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
So, are you are saying that all CO2 can change the speed of light ?
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Yes.
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williegoat
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FEB 18, 11:24 AM
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This article can help: Light Propagation Through a Medium
| quote | | The mechanism by which a light wave is transported through a medium occurs in a manner that is similar to the way that any other wave is transported - by particle-to-particle interaction. |
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It even includes a tool to calculate the Refraction Index of various media.
Nitrogen - 1.000298
CO2 - 1.112
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cliffw
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FEB 18, 03:22 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by williegoat: The mechanism by which a light wave is transported through a medium occurs in a manner that is similar to the way that any other wave is transported - by particle-to-particle interaction.
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I looked at your article. Interesting. I will look at it more later.
It already made me think of what a prism does to light.
I am also pondering what the effects of a warming Earth passing through an "increase" in CO2 would be.
rinsleberg said the LIDAR would measure the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Heat is still a factor. Does that slow down the speed of particle-to-particle light ?
Not that I care if the temperature of the Earth is gonna' go up one degree in the next 100 years.
As someone said in another thread, adapt, or die. If they can't adapt, I hope they are as miserable as I have been listening to their preaching.
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