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| US appeals court blocks all of Biden student debt relief plan (Page 12/13) |
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BingB
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AUG 02, 01:54 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Doug85GT:
That is not how any of that works. By the government selling treasury securities, i.e. bonds, the government took out a loan to make those student loans. Forgiving the student loan does nothing to the bonds the government sold. They still have to be paid by the government, meaning us the taxpayers. This is the same as taking a 2nd mortgage out on your house to loan money to your uncle. If you forgive the debt to your uncle, you have to pay back your second mortgage out of your own pocket. |
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No. That is not how it works at all.
Maybe this will help. Say you borrow 100 at 5% interest and then lend it to someone at 50% interest. If you forgive the $100 loan at 50% the only thing you have to pay back is the $100 at 5%.
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blackrams
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AUG 02, 02:45 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
The argument you are trying to make about "effect" of the tax cuts is the exacts same argument made for the effect of the debt forgiveness. More money in the economy increases GDP.
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The major exception being the debtor signed a contract to pay back the "Loan". Accepting that loan makes them owe that money back. Debt forgiveness is simply another vote buying  attempt by the Biden administration.
Rams
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82-T/A [At Work]
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AUG 02, 02:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
Trump tax cuts reduced revenue which increased the deficit.
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This is totally incorrect... this is an incorrect narrative that the Democrats were pushing several years ago. Stop spreading misinformation.
Trump Tax-Cut Results: Federal Revenues Hit All-Time Highs
https://www.investors.com/p...l-revenues-deficits/
... waiting to see how you try to spin this.
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Doug85GT
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AUG 02, 04:40 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
No. That is not how it works at all.
Maybe this will help. Say you borrow 100 at 5% interest and then lend it to someone at 50% interest. If you forgive the $100 loan at 50% the only thing you have to pay back is the $100 at 5%. |
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That is what I said. The taxpayers still have to pay back the first loan, also known as bonds, also known as Treasury Securities. The taxpayers are left holding the bag.
Do you comprehend how any of this works or are you just arguing to argue?
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cliffw
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AUG 02, 04:59 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
Trump tax cuts reduced revenue which increased the deficit. |
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There is no such proof. First of all, correlation does not imply causation. Secondly, the revenue (theft of taxpayer monies) made has never reduced the deficit, EVER !
See JFK tax cuts, Reagan tax cuts, Trump tax cuts for the increase in the government taking more of our money.
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BingB
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AUG 02, 05:17 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Doug85GT:
That is what I said. |
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No you did not. You told me I was wrong. Now you are agreeing with me and saying I was correct.
Seems you are the one who is not understanding.
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BingB
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AUG 02, 05:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
There is no such proof.
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What do you mean there is no proof. It is simple math. When taxpayers pay less taxes in reduces the governments income and increases the deficit.
Are you denying that the yearly deficit spending increased dramatically under Trump compared to the Obama Administration? Do you want me to show you the nubers?
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cliffw
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AUG 02, 05:30 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
What do you mean there is no proof. It is simple math. When taxpayers pay less taxes in reduces the governments income and increases the deficit. |
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Again, look at government taxpayer theft revenue results after the JFK tax cuts, Reagan tax cuts, and the Trump tax cuts.
| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
Are you denying that the yearly deficit spending increased dramatically under Trump compared to the Obama Administration? Do you want me to show you the nubers?
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Beauty is skin deep. Dramatically ?
Deficit spending has been the norm, like forever.[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 08-02-2024).]
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Doug85GT
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AUG 02, 05:35 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
What do you mean there is no proof. It is simple math. When taxpayers pay less taxes in reduces the governments income and increases the deficit.
Are you denying that the yearly deficit spending increased dramatically under Trump compared to the Obama Administration? Do you want me to show you the nubers?
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That is because this is completely wrong:
| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
No one said anything about cancelling Treasury securities.
The point was that the cost of cancellation of student loans would not be the interest and principal on the loans, but instead just the debt service on the lower interest treasury securities. That debt service is paid to the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve returns its profits to the US Treasury. |
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That is like saying the cost of a car is the monthly payment. LOL
Also, payments on the bond go to the bond holder, which in this case is not only to be the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve purchases bonds on the open market just like everyone else. They do not purchase them directly from the government. By the time the bonds hit the open market, there is no distinction as to what the bonds were used to fund because money is fungible.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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AUG 02, 05:55 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
Are you denying that the yearly deficit spending increased dramatically under Trump compared to the Obama Administration?
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That's not what you said.
You said the tax cuts resulted in a higher deficit. Period.
You were wrong, totally wrong. No one denied the deficit went up... I even addressed it and said the deficit went up because of spending.
Here, I'll even quote what you said, and then what I said...
What you said:
| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
If it is absurd then why did you use the exact same argument to defend the deficit created by the unfunded Trump tax cuts?
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What I said:
| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:The deficit wasn't created by the Trump Tax Cuts... that's a wildly incorrect liberal talking point that has been misproven thousands of times, and every time it gets repeated by an unwhitting liberal. The Trump tax cuts led to record-tax revenue year over year. It works by reducing the tax load on the corporations, which then allows them to hire more people, in which there are more people employed and more people making more money and thus paying more taxes. The government still gets their money (and since it spurs economic growth and spending, they get more of it).
The deficit was created by radical funding bills that the House / Senate passed, and Trump signed into law. |
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Stop... you're wrong, accept that you're wrong. You have no honor, you are pathetic.
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