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| Manual Transmissions are Nearly Gone (Page 1/4) |
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Dennis LaGrua
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MAY 08, 09:18 AM
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I certainly appreciate the ingenuity, creativity and engineering ability of the folks on this forum but find it puzzling why we see so much work and discussion being devoted to manual transmissions that today is a dying technology. No insult intended but outside of a few trucks the vast majority of automotive brands no longer offer manuals. You can't even have one on in a Corvette. I use to be a stick man but that was before technology took over and automatic transmissions shifted faster, included more speeds and slippage was eliminated. While the intention is to not start a debate; my curiosity about the stick and its fading longevity is something that might make for good discussion, When all the 5 and 6 speeds in junkyards have been scrapped in a few years then where do we go?
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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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82-T/A [At Work]
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MAY 08, 09:33 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
I certainly appreciate the ingenuity, creativity and engineering ability of the folks on this forum but find it puzzling why we see so much work and discussion being devoted to manual transmissions that today is a dying technology. No insult intended but outside of a few trucks the vast majority of automotive brands no longer offer manuals. You can't even have one on in a Corvette. I use to be a stick man but that was before technology took over and automatic transmissions shifted faster, included more speeds and slippage was eliminated. While the intention is to not start a debate; my curiosity about the stick and its fading longevity is something that might make for good discussion, When all the 5 and 6 speeds in junkyards have been scrapped in a few years then where do we go? |
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I was thinking about this the other day too. A lot of parts have been reproduced after the fact by new start-up Chinese, Taiwanese, and other companies. If there's even remotely enough demand for a simple run, I suspect they'll remake some of the more important parts. For example... I was able to buy replacement injectors for my 84 Corvette from some Chinese company (earlier in the year) when no one else was making them, except rebuilding them. It was some company that's really big in the aftermarket now that has a red and black box... I can't remember the name.
But for those purists, you can also remake things, and I think to an extent, you'll probably see a lot more CNC work being done for things like synchros and stuff which you can't really get anymore. All that said, it seems that automatic to manual swaps are more common, so there are more manual Fieros out there probably than there are automatic Fieros now (still on the road).
As for the why... I know that a 4T60 can be a great swap in a Fiero... but for me, having a stick shift in it embodies everything that makes a car fun to drive. One of the biggest issues people have with modern cars today, is that with the pervasiveness of CARB and CAFE standards... you barely hear and feel cars today. Even comparing my 1984 Corvette to my neighbor's 1989 Corvette... both of them are the exact same color, and even look the same. But I was letting my car idle last weekend, and my neighbor said... "How come your Corvette sounds so much nicer than mine?"
... we both have stock exhaust systems, but at some point between 1984 and 1989, they implemented new rules for how much sound an engine or exhaust could make. When you even listen to the sound of my daughter's 1985 Fiero 2m4 SE 5-Speed... it has the stock exhaust, the completely stock intake (air cleaner, water separator ducting, ThermAC, etc... all installed). The only difference is an aftermarket catalytic converter. And her exhaust sounds louder too. But of course, we're talking about manuals... all these things add up to what made cars fun to drive back then. I could get into a 2-door Honda Civic that would be way faster and handle better than my Fiero... but it doesn't feel exciting at all. Becuase in the Fiero... or an older car, you're really using all of your senses...
This is a good video that really explains what I mean:
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fieroguru
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MAY 08, 10:09 AM
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This is one of my favorite shirts. It helps that it has the same shift pattern as the F40.
For me it is about the driving experience.
You are more connected with the car and you are in control.
This is also why I drive a Fiero... I like the driving experience.
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Brian A
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MAY 08, 10:29 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
I use to be a stick man but that was before technology took over and automatic transmissions shifted faster, included more speeds and slippage was eliminated. While the intention is to not start a debate; my curiosity about the stick and its fading longevity is something that might make for good discussion, When all the 5 and 6 speeds in junkyards have been scrapped in a few years then where do we go?
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To me, it's kind of a "if I have to explain it you won't understand" kinda thing. Operating a manual transmission car feels like operating a machine. There is a visceral mechanical connection. Either you get it, or you don't.
Regarding the future for manual shift fans, we'll all have to drift toward vintage cars. They will always be available as long as they are prized. You will always be able to get your Porsche or Corvette fixed. The less loved cars -- and Fieros might be in that category -- might fade away but you will always be able to get something.
Old people complain now that "kids" don't know how to drive manual shift cars. My observation is that a lot of "kids" don't even know what a manual shift car is!
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Vintage-Nut
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MAY 08, 10:53 AM
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| quote | | For me it {Manual Transmission} is about the driving experience... |
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For Point A to B: My Truck and 'daily drivers' have automatic transmissions
The Driving Experience in my Fiero {which has a manual} = Pontiac Excitement!
Pontiac "We build excitement"
https://youtu.be/aoGCnLfn4cE
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Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT
Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles
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krodyob
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MAY 08, 11:16 AM
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For me, nothing beats driving a manual transmission car. It makes you feel more connected with the car and road. I have a manual in both my Fiero and my daily driver. My daily is a Jeep Wrangler mainly because you can still buy them in a manual.
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pmbrunelle
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MAY 08, 12:51 PM
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It is not just about the manual transmission, but it is about manual operation in general. Crank windows, hydraulic or manual steering, non-ABS brakes, cable throttle, etc.
When it is no longer feasible to daily drive a more "analog" car, then commuting will become miserable.
I might be able to get my "analog" fix via other toys, maybe a motorcycle, ATV, snowmobile, etc.
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Larryinkc
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MAY 08, 01:34 PM
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In my world a proper automobile has 2 doors and 3 pedals.
The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society
We are the guardians of a dying art. The purveyors of a craft born of necessity, but beloved for its spirit. We travel with purpose regardless of our destination. Every corner an opportunity for the perfect downshift, every stop a new starting line. We find joy in those fleeting moments between ratios; the crescendo of rpm, the gentle click of the gate, the building inertia in our chest as the drivetrain becomes whole again. We are the masters of our machines. We are The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society!
Most of my DDs have been 2 door manuals, they have all been since 1995. Even in heavy traffic I don't mind the clutch and shifting. I travel with purpose regardless of my destination.
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Dennis LaGrua
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MAY 08, 02:25 PM
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No doubt there are many forum members here that enjoy the stick especially for road racing. . I recall years back getting stuck in stop and go traffic for 2 hours with my Jeep 5 speed stick and let me tell you that experience gave me a sore leg. Today my wife drives a Jeep Gladiator with a 9 speed ZF automatic.
Its certainly fine to enjoy driving a Fiero with a manual transmission. Those Fieros with the the 5 speeds are more popular that those with the TH125H slushbox. The TH125H might be simple but doesn't give a good driving experience.. No matter how we spin things manual transmissions are still almost a thing of the past. When the scrap yards are empty in a few years that may be the end of it all. Repair parts may still be available but I know a few guys that snapped their Getrag case in half .
Today automatics can be had in 6 and even 9 speed versions. If a do another swap I would try that with the 6T40 transmission. The 6T series is available with the GM FWD bell housing. The modern day automatic transmissions suit may needs very well but I guess there are always going to be the die hard manual guys.------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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Larryinkc
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MAY 08, 02:37 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
The modern day automatic transmissions suit may needs very well but I guess there are always going to be the die hard manual guys.
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JMHO To each his own.
Nothing die hard about it, it's all about having the most fun possible while driving.
We are the masters of our machines. We are The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society!
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