poss buying another one - have 24hrs - have ???'s HELP (Page 1/2)
qwikgta APR 28, 04:34 PM
** Thread is OBE now, I purchased the car. Thanks for the input everyone. **


OK, so first I did use the search even used the google search and found some answers but still have a few. I'm an 88 guy, and i've owned a few, but none of them had the factory 2.8 motor, (had a 2.5 in my coupe and have a 3.8 in my GT). I have a chance to buy a "near mint" 87 GT. Perfect interior, no body damage, all the panels have the VIN and the paint is near perfect. No rust, looked in all the usual spots, none at all, even the undercarriage is clean, things that rust like control arms, steering ect have no rust. Low mileage car, just over 107K and from the looks of things it was garage kept.

One problem NO MOTOR. Yea, its a factory V6/5 speed car and something must have happened to the motor b/c its gone. Lots of oil in the bellhousing of the trans but no motor, no wire harness and no ECM/PCM.

I have a chance to purchase a 89 Cavalier 2.8/5spd from a car sitting in my local Pick n Pull. I went there today to look at the car and the motor looks real good, no oil sludge, no leaks, everything is still on the car, i even started to take things apart in anticipation of pulling the motor. BTW it had a digital dash until I pulled it. The motor has the 7730 PCM and so far the harness is uncut. I can get the motor - trans - PCM and harness for a very good price. (<$100)

I know the 2.8 will bolt up, I know that this motor is not the HO 2.8 and has a lower HP/TQE than the factory Fiero motor, but that is not the issue, I want to get this 87 up and running on the cheap. I could just buy the motor/harness-PCM and bolt it to the 87 Getrag, but for now I'm thinking about keeping the 89 stuff together and just bolting it on the 87 cradle as is.

I'm hoping I don't have to do a rebuild, so lets just say for the sake of argument that the motor/trans work perfect w/ no issues. What are some of the known issues that i will have using a none "Fiero 2.8" in a 87 Fiero.
Here is what I know already:
- 89 has DIS, Fiero 2.8 did not. (I will be getting the harness and 7730 PCM)
- 89 2.8 has different accy brackets than the Fiero 2.8 (I have a complete set of Fiero accy brackets)
- Will a stock Fiero intake fit w/ out issues, how about valve covers. (I have all that stuff off another car I parted).

I know I'll have to deal with all the Fiero motor in the rear, Cavalier motor in the front stuff like shift linkage, exhaust, coolant hoses, ect.. but thats easy.

IF you have any input and/or things i have not adressed please respond, I have to let the seller know some time on Wednesday,

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 04-29-2020).]

Mike in Sydney APR 28, 07:25 PM
Depending on what they are asking for the car, you may want to purchase it and then find a 3.4L engine from a '93-95 Firebird or Camaro. With a little work, it's a direct drop-in for the 2.8. Last time I looked, JEGS has rebuilt crate long blocks for around 16-17 hundred dollars, U.S.

------------------
Mike in Sydney

qwikgta APR 28, 09:27 PM
thanks, yes, I have two engine sitting in my storage unit, a LS4 and LSJ, both will require a bit of refresh before they go into a Fiero.

In this case, I'm looking at buying, fixing and flipping this 87 GT. I already have access to several 3800's both NA and SC, but i'm looking to keep the cost down. I agree that a 3.4 out of a F-body would also be an easy swap, however, at this time, the yard does not have one. Waiting on one to show up is one idea, however it could be a while before they get a good one it.

This 89 2.8 is just sitting there so my thought is pull it, install it and get the 87 GT up and running again. My big concern is working in the 89 DIS system and 7730 PCM into the 87 car.

anyone else have any input?

Thanks

pic of the empty engine bay

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 04-28-2020).]

Raydar APR 28, 10:02 PM
The real question is whether the Cavy engine is iron head, or aluminum head. If it's aluminum head, none of the Fiero intake manifolding will work with it.
If it's iron head, it's essentially a Fiero engine.
Since it's an 89, it's most certainly internally balanced. But if you're using the Cavy tranny (and flywheel, etc.) that'll be a moot point.
Fiero exhaust manifolds might bolt up to aluminum heads, but the ports probably won't match too well.

Assuming it has iron heads, do you have enough stock Fiero 2.8 pieces to install it and make it look stock? (7730 and DIS notwithstanding.)

Good luck, regardless.

Edit - From Wikipedia:
The LB6 engine was introduced in 1985 to replace the original LE2. It used multiport fuel injection and produced 130 hp (97 kW).

Applications:

1985–1986 Cadillac Cimarron
1985–1994 Chevrolet Cavalier
1985 Chevrolet Citation
1985 Buick Skylark (sedan)
1985-1986 Chevrolet Celebrity
1985-1986 Pontiac 6000
1985–1986 Oldsmobile Firenza

Installed in a Fiero, I'm guessing it'll probably make as much power as the original 2.8. Based upon the article, it appears that it is an iron head engine. So your options are nearly unlimited. (Unless your Cavy is a Z24. If that's the case, it's probably aluminum heads.)

And the 7730 ECM / DIS swap is fairly common, these days. So it shouldn't be too difficult.

2nd edit - That's a beautiful 87. Hard to believe it has that many miles on it.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-28-2020).]

cam-a-lot APR 28, 10:06 PM
Why would you buy it just to flip it? Fieros are NOT money makers/investments. If you count all your time, hassle, etc, what are you truly going to make on this car? Likely not very much. Serious collectore with deep pockets will likley want a mint, low mileage 88 or heavily modified one with V8 or perfect 3800 swap. So I am not sure I see the return in investment if you just plan to sell this car....
qwikgta APR 28, 11:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by cam-a-lot:

Why would you buy it just to flip it? Fieros are NOT money makers/investments. If you count all your time, hassle, etc, what are you truly going to make on this car? Likely not very much. Serious collectore with deep pockets will likley want a mint, low mileage 88 or heavily modified one with V8 or perfect 3800 swap. So I am not sure I see the return in investment if you just plan to sell this car....



well with the price of the car, the motor and the bits I have laying around, I wont have much into the car, and if I can flip it and make $500 its better than nothing, plus I get to save this car from the crusher. It is so clean it does not deserve to be crushed.

Rob
qwikgta APR 28, 11:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Installed in a Fiero, I'm guessing it'll probably make as much power as the original 2.8. Based upon the article, it appears that it is an iron head engine. So your options are nearly unlimited. (Unless your Cavy is a Z24. If that's the case, it's probably aluminum heads.)

And the 7730 ECM / DIS swap is fairly common, these days. So it shouldn't be too difficult.

2nd edit - That's a beautiful 87. Hard to believe it has that many miles on it.




yea, thanks for the info. I've spent the better part of today on Google and hear in Pennocks looking for data on the 2.8 family of engines. Read a lot of posts from many years ago, about folks swapping in 3.1, 3.4 ect...

Its an Iron block, Iron head motor, basiclly the same engine that the Fiero got except its no the "H.O." engine. I also emailed Ryan at GM Tuners and he said go for it.

Thanks for the reply.

only issue on the inside is pass dash corner is broken, "B" pillar speaker grills were broken off to remove the speakers and a 1 inch rip in the seam at the drivers bolster. Yea, needs stereo, but is wired for the factory Sub-woofer. I guess I won't be selling the factory woofer system anymore. :-)

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 04-29-2020).]

css9450 APR 29, 06:52 AM

quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

yea, thanks for the info. I've spent the better part of today on Google and hear in Pennocks looking for data on the 2.8 family of engines....

Its an Iron block, Iron head motor, basiclly the same engine that the Fiero got except its no the "H.O." engine. I also emailed Ryan at GM Tuners and he said go for it.




Can you post a picture of the Cavalier engine? I don't recall the iron head 2.8 continuing in the FWD lineup once the Gen 2 engines were introduced. That '89 engine should have DIS, aluminum heads, MAF, etc. and no, the intake and valve covers aren't direct swaps from the Fiero.

The iron head engines lived on in the F bodies, S-10 trucks, APV minivans, etc.
sourmash APR 29, 08:54 AM
It's a pretty nice looking car, but how many people make money off of a stock engine 84-87? Not having to paint it is way ahead. Why not 4.9 it?
qwikgta APR 29, 09:43 AM

quote
Originally posted by css9450:

Can you post a picture of the Cavalier engine? I don't recall the iron head 2.8 continuing in the FWD lineup once the Gen 2 engines were introduced. That '89 engine should have DIS, aluminum heads, MAF, etc. and no, the intake and valve covers aren't direct swaps from the Fiero.

The iron head engines lived on in the F bodies, S-10 trucks, APV minivans, etc.



Funny thing is that the only car that kept getting the iron block, iron head 2.8 after 88 was the Cavalier. But its a moot point, two things have turned off my purchase of the Cavalier motor, the crank bolt was broken off inside the crank and after running the VIN its been off the road for over 10 years and has over 200K on the motor. I'm going to pass on that one. Looking at doing a 3800 swap if nothing else falls in my lap soon.

Rob