Turbo formula tuning assistance (Page 1/2)
86dreamachine DEC 05, 02:44 AM
Hi everyone! Before I get into the topic at hand a quick background rundown: I've been creeping around PFF for a while (and 60°v6) and am more knowledgeable than an average person but less knowledgeable than someone who does mechanics work for a living. What I really need is some assistance in fine tuning my fiero. My goal for the car is to push somewhere between 3-5lb more boost or maintain my current level (10lb) and possibly advance timing just a hair (without blowing it up lol)

Basic rundown of the car in it's current configuration: 2.8 60° stroked to a 3.1 then bored to a 3.2L hyper pistons (however that's spelled...) Rods out of a sb Chevy, 252h cam, TB intake and headers ported, 3>1 ceramic coated headers, Garret gt30-r turbo, tial wg set for 10lb, hks bov, Saab 9000 a2a intercooler, front battery conversion along with a few other minor things. Car was dyno'd few years ago mid summer (85-90°) and pulled 216hp/257lb ft. I have a laptop and tuning program (will be more specific later) as well as a pcm burner but I lack some of the finer points to use it effectively. That all being said it actually runs just fine I'm just looking to push it a little farther. I think ia good goal would be 250hp; just enough to get into trouble

Any and all help happily accepted. I'm located in NE Ohio if someone in my neighborhood (within an HR or 2) can lend a hand I'm willing to make the trip come springtime. I'll try and post some pictures when I get a sec.
wftb DEC 05, 10:02 AM
Welcome to the forum. If you want to run more timing and a little more boost, water meth injection works well. The more advanced tuners among us(not me lol) will want to know what ECM you have, size of injectors what you are doing for knock detection etc. I have a Snow water meth system that is progressive based on boost level. It can also be paired with a MAF sensor as well by flipping a switch on the controller.

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

86dreamachine DEC 05, 11:15 AM
First off I lied. I'm going through the stack of paperwork and it would appear I have forged pistons at the very least. I know the injectors have been balanced but I'm not seeing anything as far as what it's got so I'll continue to look around I have more than an inch of paperwork and there might be more someplace else also... Took a pic just for the general idea of what we're looking at. It's not possible to be making 215hp on stock injectors right?

wftb DEC 05, 12:35 PM
With stock injectors running 10 lbs of boost the person running the dyno would have shut it down before he could get any readings I would think. It would knock badly.

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

pmbrunelle DEC 05, 12:36 PM
Did someone else build this car?

Whatever tips you have to share, I'm listening, as I have a similar sort of build (not yet running) underway. My turbo is oriented similarly to yours.


quote
Originally posted by 86dreamachine:
It's not possible to be making 215hp on stock injectors right?



Maybe with 100% duty cycle (i.e. constantly on), and increased fuel pressure... but that would not be ideal.
86dreamachine DEC 06, 12:32 AM
Yes the car was designed and parted together by a retired gm engineer who worked on the fiero new from the factory. Smart guy. Purchased several years ago which is why I'm double checking the specs. Enjoyed it for 6 months or so then had to put it to the side for a year due to financial constraints. This year I put some money in it to help it along and next spring I'll finish install of my remaining parts. Still have c4 Corvette rotors, oil cooler, and few other minor things to install. As I find more numbers for hardware I'll post it up. Paperwork says the turbo is a 50 trim stage 3 .63 a/r, 255 lph fuel pump, msd coil. Fairly certain ecm is stock could be wrong on that.
86dreamachine DEC 06, 02:38 AM
I have another random idea that could be fruitful... In addition to all of the various things I'll be finishing up this upcoming spring I'm also considering rotating the intercooler into a vertical orientation. Removing or cutting the deck vent to fit. I just feel like the size and placement is less than ideal and even if I just reconfigure it's placement and not swap to something bigger or water to air it'll be more effective. Thoughts?
lou_dias DEC 06, 11:42 AM
Since you have a 3.2, I would think a T3 is a bit too small for you.
There is no way you are running stock injectors. My old 3.1[2] setup with KKK K3 turbo (basically same as a T3) with 16# injectors ran out of fuel at 4500 rpm.

I would find out what injectors you actually have and upgrade accordingly (19# are good for 250 hp, IIRC - go for at least 24#); rebuild the turbo to a T3/4 hybrid.
Also, switch to E85 fuel. Handles boost better but you also need 30-35% more fuel, so you'll need to check your fuel pump and probably go to 36# injectors...

FYI - I switched to E85 on a naturally aspirated motor and gained 10-12 hp...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-06-2019).]

wftb DEC 06, 03:17 PM
I would just drive it as is and see how you like it. The only way to judge an intercoolers effectiveness is to monitor charge pipe temperatures and then make changes as needed. If you have a stock ECM you may not have a knock sensor (I think only 85 model years had one) . Trying to make big power without a way to monitor KR and temperatures can be disasterous. Everything looks clean and well thought out in the engine bay. You could easily change out the air to air for an air to water intercooler, the HX would sit in the same spot and one to fit the piping configuration is probably available. I got all my intercooler stuff from frozenboost.com .
As far as E85 is concerned, unless you are looking to make max power I would not bother. Your mileage will take a big hit and the Fiero gas tank is small at 10 us gallons, so you will get not much range out of a tank.

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

pmbrunelle DEC 06, 09:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by 86dreamachine:

I have another random idea that could be fruitful... In addition to all of the various things I'll be finishing up this upcoming spring I'm also considering rotating the intercooler into a vertical orientation. Removing or cutting the deck vent to fit. I just feel like the size and placement is less than ideal and even if I just reconfigure it's placement and not swap to something bigger or water to air it'll be more effective. Thoughts?



Air travels up through the decklid vent, so right now your intercooler is oriented to be cooled by the airflow.

The intercooler presently appears to fit well with those custom red pipes. I don't think I would mess with a good setup without good reason.

I like the way Darth did an intercooler install here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/121257.html#p10

I'm guessing that your Fiero doesn't have exhaust piping in that area.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-06-2019).]