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| 60degreev6.com issues? (Page 1/2) |
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ChuckR
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OCT 03, 12:17 PM
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Hey guys, just wondering since I know several of you are on both forums. is 60 V6 done and gone or will it be back up eventually? I ask since there is a lot of info on there I was trying to use as research.
Thanks
Chuck------------------
"HICCUPP" 1988 2.8 GT Ocelot SS exhaust
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Fiero Thomas
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OCT 03, 12:43 PM
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ChuckR
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OCT 03, 01:13 PM
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Yes the weekend passed 4 days ago. I was actually reading old posts about the 3.9L when it "went down for the weekend" last Friday, hence my question 
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82-T/A [At Work]
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OCT 03, 11:02 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ChuckR:
Yes the weekend passed 4 days ago. I was actually reading old posts about the 3.9L when it "went down for the weekend" last Friday, hence my question |
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Yeah, I can't get to it either... something happened to it.
That site brings up a lot of painful memories for me. (haha)
I remember reading about these SUPER-RARE Gen-1 Cyl heads that were made of aluminum instead of cast iron, like all the other Gen-1 heads. They had steel valve seats, valve guides, and a few other steel pieces integrated into them, but they were otherwise solid aluminum. They were the same cast, but had slightly higher compression ratio, and were overall a little bit lighter.
I remember seeing on eBay later that week, a pair of them for $500 for the set. I thought to myself... "Eh... I'll get the next ones that pop up."
... never found another set. 
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cvxjet
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OCT 03, 11:27 PM
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I just did a bit of research; The aluminum heads were used on a bunch of GM cars 1987-89.....I had never heard of this (I know a guy who has an Aluminum BLOCK 2.8 in a Lotus...The blocks are only after market GM and must be made of GOLD because they cost $1000 when you could get them (Discontinued)
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82-T/A [At Work]
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OCT 04, 05:05 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by cvxjet:
I just did a bit of research; The aluminum heads were used on a bunch of GM cars 1987-89.....I had never heard of this (I know a guy who has an Aluminum BLOCK 2.8 in a Lotus...The blocks are only after market GM and must be made of GOLD because they cost $1000 when you could get them (Discontinued) |
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Really? In 1987-1989, what cars were they in? Are you sure this wasn't the GEN-2 version of the V6/60?
I can't remember what I had been looking at, but I knew they were really rare. When it comes down to it, the heads don't really give you much if any horsepower other than what you gain from the increased compression ratio (I think it went to 9:1 instead of 8.9:1). But I suppose the real benefit is the reduced weight in the back, which helps a bit more on improving the 47/53 weight balance. I used to think like that back in the day, haha... but really, it's splitting hairs at this point since you could drop in a 3.9 V6/60 and 6-Speed manual... it would be lighter all around than the stock configuration, run better, etc...
Interested to know what cars had the aluminum heads though, if it was something I could pull... I'm partial to my engine, but not to the cyl heads!
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cvxjet
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OCT 04, 11:20 AM
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I was looking at a couple of sites but here is what I got out of Wikipedia- It says 2nd gen but in this time frame I think it may be a different 2nd gen head- I see pics of n aluminum head with the old-style exhaust ports but splayed valves...Hmmmm- do the(Much) later heads have the exhaust ports in the same location- now I'm confused!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
From Wiki........
The second generation, still 2.8 litres (2,837 cc), was introduced in 1987. It used aluminum heads with splayed valves and an aluminum front cover. It was produced exclusively for transverse, front-wheel drive use.
The next year, Chevrolet introduced a full-production long-stroke 3.1 L; 191.3 cu in (3,135 cc) version in the Pontiac 6000 STE AWD, with a89 mm (3.5 in) bore and 84 mm (3.31 in) stroke compared to the 2.8 which shared the same bore, however with a 76 mm (2.99 in) in stroke. It was produced simultaneously with the 2.8 L (2,837 cc) in various compact and midsized vehicles until 1990, when the 2.8 L (2,837 cc) was dropped. MPFI was used on both, and a full-production turbo version was available on the 3.1 L (3,135 cc). An even higher displacement DOHC 3.4 L (3,350 cc) LQ1 was also developed, and eventually, the new GM High Value engine family followed. Production of OHV Generation II engines ended in 1994 after the introduction of the Generation III in 1993.
The 2.8 L (2,837 cc) 60° V6 was used in these vehicles:
1988–1989 Buick Regal
1987–1989 Chevrolet Beretta
1987–1989 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24
1990–1994 Mexican Chevrolet Cavalier
1987–1989 Chevrolet Corsica
1987–1989 Pontiac 6000
1988–1989 Pontiac Grand Prix
1987–1989 Chevrolet Celebrity
1987–1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
1987–1989 Buick Century
1988-1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
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82-T/A [At Work]
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OCT 05, 12:40 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by cvxjet:
I was looking at a couple of sites but here is what I got out of Wikipedia- It says 2nd gen but in this time frame I think it may be a different 2nd gen head- I see pics of n aluminum head with the old-style exhaust ports but splayed valves...Hmmmm- do the(Much) later heads have the exhaust ports in the same location- now I'm confused!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
From Wiki........
The second generation, still 2.8 litres (2,837 cc), was introduced in 1987. It used aluminum heads with splayed valves and an aluminum front cover. It was produced exclusively for transverse, front-wheel drive use.
The next year, Chevrolet introduced a full-production long-stroke 3.1 L; 191.3 cu in (3,135 cc) version in the Pontiac 6000 STE AWD, with a89 mm (3.5 in) bore and 84 mm (3.31 in) stroke compared to the 2.8 which shared the same bore, however with a 76 mm (2.99 in) in stroke. It was produced simultaneously with the 2.8 L (2,837 cc) in various compact and midsized vehicles until 1990, when the 2.8 L (2,837 cc) was dropped. MPFI was used on both, and a full-production turbo version was available on the 3.1 L (3,135 cc). An even higher displacement DOHC 3.4 L (3,350 cc) LQ1 was also developed, and eventually, the new GM High Value engine family followed. Production of OHV Generation II engines ended in 1994 after the introduction of the Generation III in 1993.
The 2.8 L (2,837 cc) 60° V6 was used in these vehicles:
1988–1989 Buick Regal
1987–1989 Chevrolet Beretta
1987–1989 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24
1990–1994 Mexican Chevrolet Cavalier
1987–1989 Chevrolet Corsica
1987–1989 Pontiac 6000
1988–1989 Pontiac Grand Prix
1987–1989 Chevrolet Celebrity
1987–1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
1987–1989 Buick Century
1988-1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme |
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Yeah, that's definitely the 2nd Gen motor. I've seen plenty of those heads before, and while (if I'm not mistaken) you can drop the 2nd gen heads onto the 1st gen block, the water ports and such do not line up properly. But it's been ~15 years since I've dropped one of those heads on a 1st gen block in the junkyard.
If I remember correctly, the engine we have in the Fiero was originally designed as a longitude / RWD engine from the get-go. I think it was designed at some point in the mid to late 70s, and was in everything from the Blazer, to the Fiero. When adapted for the Fiero, I think they added some holes for the starter... or maybe the FWD / Fiero vehicles were adapted to fit the motor... I can't be sure. But it makes sense then that, while the 3rd gen motor was already in production, they were STILL producing the 1st gen motor for use in the 93-95 Camaro and Firebird (but with modified bore and stroke).
I remember seeing the all aluminum V6/60 for sale in the GM Parts Catalog. If I remember correctly... GM stopped selling it a LONG time back... maybe mid 90s by that point. Some company had bought all the stamps and molds, and the rights to it, and were continuing to make the aluminum block after the fact for several more years. I have the Big Fiero Parts Book that has the company mentioned in there, but that's in storage on Ocala with my Fiero, very far away from where I am right now. Anyway... the V6/60 2.8 was apparently used in some class of racing for quite some time. Not general SCCA, but some specific class... I don't know, but that was apparently why they produced that motor in the first place. There were actually quite a few performance parts made for that 2.8 V6/60 too... they even had an Offenhauser intake manifold for a pair of two two-barrel carburetors, and one for a large 4-port. It's been such a long time, that I can't even remember.
Ooh, found it!
I have a 1987 Fiero SE / V6, and while I don't think it'll ever have any kind of real value, I have tried to keep it as original as possible, and that includes "numbers matching." I don't know that this would matter, or that anyone cares... but replacing the motor isn't really a consideration for me. But... the aluminum heads are. I have to assume the heads are numbers matched to the car, but maybe they aren't. Either way, a set of aluminum heads would really improve a lot of things for the Fiero:
1 - Quicker warm up, and quicker cool-down.
2 - Easier heat dissipation.
3 - Slightly more compression, and a bit better horsepower (9.1:1 standard instead of 8.9:1... if I'm right about that)
4 - Slightly lighter... my guess, ~30-35 pounds in the back. I suppose I could eat one less cheeseburger a week too.... but it's kind of a cool thought.
I'd still love to find those all-aluminum 1st gen V6/60 cyl heads... but they all seem to be where Jimmy Hoffa and the Holy Grail are hidden.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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OCT 05, 01:09 AM
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Patrick
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OCT 05, 01:23 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Check this out, I found one that's new, and in stock. It's in Italy, and they want 10 thousand Euros for it... which is something like $13,000 US.
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I'd snap it up if it were a pair.  Yeah, for sure. 
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