Hydraulic TOB / internal slave Getrag to 4.9 swap. (Page 1/7)
Raydar MAR 16, 09:27 PM
At least one person has asked me to document this swap, so if there is some interest I will continue.
There are already threads to document a 5 speed 4.9 install and a hydraulic TOB Getrag install, so it may be a bit redundant, but we shall see.

The victim.




And the before pic.


I have a gantry frame (I call it the swingset from hell) that I will roll into place over the rear of the car, and lift it off of the cradle.
The ramps are because the last time I dropped the cradle, I squished the air dam firmly against the floor.
I'll also need room to swap the hydraulic lines on the bottom of the car.

The bits and pieces.
93 Cavalier Getrag tranny (aka NVG T-550) with integral slave/throwout bearing.




The tranny came from Jeff Ianitello(sp?) aka pontiacjeff, at Engineered Performance.
Aside from the internal slave and the sturdier diff that comes with the later design tranny, it also contains an EP limited slip.
Maybe a bit of overkill for a 4.9 (although there is that "tractor torque") but I figure if I do something else, down the road, I'll have it covered.
An added bonus is that the VSS in this tranny should be directly compatable with the Caddy PCM. No need for the Dakota Digital adapter.

LSC flywheel
Edit - There were some interference issues with the LSC flywheel and the Fiero Store Ram clutch. There is the largest possibility that you will NOT run into this problem. I just got "lucky".
Details are here. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/136262.html


As I was shooting this pics, I noticed this. Since you seldom see "Made in USA" any more, I thought it was worthy of mention.


Edit - I originally installed the Fiero Store / Ram HD clutch, but discovered that the clutch assembly is too tall, from the flywheel surface to the the tips of the release fingers.
You will need to use a clutch designed for the Cavalier with the 3.1 and the T-550 (HTOB) tranny. (92-93?)


Rodney Dickman master.


Cables (including new RD select cable)


Pedals and TOB. (New TOB will be installed. This was a pullout.)


Axles.


Norm's battery box will be installed while I've got everything apart.
A front battery box is the one thing I really should have done when I had the swap done.
The battery is ~1/4 inch from the idler pulley, and the tray is seriously in the way whenever you try to do anything at all to the front of the engine.


I plan to see if there is a more suitable code mask to use for the Caddy PCM, to stop it from missing the 4T60E. (Yeah. I know I can ground two wires and I should be good. But the Allante had a much "dumber" tranny, so that mask may work better.) I'm also going to add the front O2 sensor.
OTOH, there is nothing stopping me from swapping the entire PCM to a 7730. That's also an option.

So there you have it.
Progress won't be rapid. I'll work on it whan I have time and when I feel like it.
My goal is to be finished by the first week in June.

If there is anything specific that someone wants pics of, please let me know.
Otherwise, I might get caught up in the moment and forget to document something.
------------------
Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fastback

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-05-2020).]

3084me MAR 16, 11:17 PM

I've wanted to do the 4.9 swap and still have done the SBC swap 2x now.

I'd be interested in seeing your hydraulic TOB / Internal Slave handy-work.
Raydar MAR 16, 11:23 PM
I'm going to link to Paul's thread, since this is where I got my inspiration.
Tons of good info. Many thanks to him for documenting.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/091336.html
Raydar APR 10, 01:35 AM
Made some progress this weekend...

Cleared out a place to work, behind the car.


In the air.
The "swingset from hell" has no problem holding up the entire rear of the car, including the engine.
The chain is looped through the steel channel at the front of the trunk compartment.
Although the A frame was quite capable of holding up the car, the jackstands were a bit of insurance, since I was working underneath, disconnecting stuff.
Catching a car in the face would tend to mess up my day.


All bundled up and ready to go.


The position of the furniture dolly under the cradle.
The spacing on the dolly cushions is actually just a bit wide. I had to run a 2x4 across next to the front cushion, to catch the front cradle rail.
I chose to remove the struts before lifting the cradle since the rear is all poly. There is very little flexiblilty when the car is lifted, and they tend to catch on everything and become a PITA.


Coming up...


Alley oop!


And free!
I thought I was going to run out of hoist. At this point, it's less than a foot from all the way up.


The patient (or victim, depending upon your outlook.)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-10-2011).]

Fieroseverywhere APR 10, 03:45 PM
Cool! I've been wondering about this trans with the 4.9. Glad to see someone doing it.

FYI: The VSS will connect directly to the 4.9 PCM but will require a signal converter still to run the speedo properly (thats a fiero speedo issue not VSS). I think that VSS sends a 24000ppm signal (what the 4.9's use from the factory). If you need a signal converter I'll send one to you. I have one left of the batch I made.

Love the swingset from hell!! Go raydar!
Raydar APR 10, 05:01 PM

quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:

Cool! I've been wondering about this trans with the 4.9. Glad to see someone doing it.

FYI: The VSS will connect directly to the 4.9 PCM but will require a signal converter still to run the speedo properly (thats a fiero speedo issue not VSS). I think that VSS sends a 24000ppm signal (what the 4.9's use from the factory). If you need a signal converter I'll send one to you. I have one left of the batch I made.

Love the swingset from hell!! Go raydar!



Signal converter?
This was a Fiero Factory swap. Isn't the signal converter already done when they swap in the 4.9?
I was looking at fieroguru's thread. The ppm signals are the same, between the old tranny and the new. I was thinking that the VSS signals were the same.
I appreciate the offer. If I need a converter, I'll give you a shout.

I didn't build the "swingset". Told a guy what I needed, and he whipped it up and brought it over a couple of weeks later.
I forget how much it cost, but it was waaay worth it. Less then half of what I would have paid for one from Northern or Harbor Freight.
mattwa APR 10, 11:48 PM
I'm not knocking your choice at all, but I'm curious as to why you are going from auto to manual? The gear ratio's of that manual and most others besides the Isuzu is not the best for the low-torque of the 4.9. I'm asking because I'm doing a 4.9/auto swap myself, and I went auto for those exact reasons. Of course manual is more fun but not if the gear ratio's are so high, you have to shift quickly.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-11-2011).]

Raydar APR 11, 06:08 AM
I just got tired of when and how the automatic shifted.
Reprogrammed or not, the Caddy tranny just doesn't do much of anything quickly. Especially downshift.
I also missed my 5 speed coupe that I sold last summer. It was way more fun to drive than the 4.9, just because of the 5 speed.

Aside from that, people are still doing L67s with Getrags. That combination has the potential to blow through 1st gear much more rapidly than the 4.9.
mattwa APR 11, 03:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Aside from that, people are still doing L67s with Getrags. That combination has the potential to blow through 1st gear much more rapidly than the 4.9.



Right, and I would do the same thing, as the L67 benefits from the high final drive. The 4.9 don't prefer the higher finals just because its a low-end torque monster, you know by 4500 RPM or so its over and you need to shift, the L67 goes to what, 6K? It not the amount of power I'm talking about, its were the power-band of each engine is located.

Again, I have nothing against you for doing this, I'm just trying to get the correct information along with experience. I don't want to drop my cradle again in the future if I don't like the auto (which I don't see why not, but that's why I'm posting this)
Raydar APR 11, 06:22 PM
Well...
It's probably not the ideal setup - the ideal setup for a 4.9 probably being just what you're installing - but it's what I'm doing.
Other folks have done Getrags and Isuzus with 4.9s and seem to like them just fine.
I fully accept the possibility that I may not like it when it's done. If that's the case, I'll tweek it until I like it, or I'll do a different engine. (Some folks here change engines like they change socks.) I'll be ready to do something else by next year, anyway. Whether it's to this car or something else.
A newer 3.5 or 3.9 might be interesting. The variable cam timing is a bit of a pill, but if it works like the VCT in our Trailblazer, I have some ideas on how to make it work.

Oh... Ordered my release bearing today. 89.99 at Autozone, minus a $20 credit from my Rewards card. And earned $20 towards my Rewards card.
All I need now are pressure plate bolts, a connector for the 2nd O2 sensor, and a connector for the backup light switch.
After that, it's all labor.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-11-2011).]