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| The Getrag F23 Tutorial - By Emc209i (Page 8/28) |
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ericjon262
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JAN 13, 07:01 PM
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I found the out hard way, Roger Thelin's rear swap bracket is an 88 only item... just thought the rest of you should know.
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there's a Group on 60degreeV6.com for us 660 Fiero owners!
Fiero Owner's group on 60degreeV6.com[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 01-13-2012).]
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mattwa
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JAN 13, 07:14 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
I found the out hard way, Roger Thelin's rear swap bracket is an 88 only item... just thought the rest of you should know.
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Why do you say that? What doesn't work? I would like more details and pictures if possible.[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-13-2012).]
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L67
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JAN 13, 08:57 PM
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Transmissions mounts are universal for either cradle. If it doesn't work with an earlier cradle it shouldn't work with the later cradle. Clearance issues?
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ericjon262
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JAN 13, 09:50 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by L67:
Transmissions mounts are universal for either cradle. If it doesn't work with an earlier cradle it shouldn't work with the later cradle. Clearance issues? |
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the bracket doesn't clear the upper part of the cradle, near where the tierod mounts to the cradle here's a pic, it's not the greatest, but I think you'll get the idea.
you can see where the bolt should be poking through the hole in the bottom, and it's not there. the modified trans mount is bolted in, and the dodge motor mount Thelin supplied bolted to it. I've got one of Rodney's front motor mounts on, so it gets things lined up approximately to true, and I can't get the bolt from the mount thelin supplied to come through the hole, not even close.
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ericjon262
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JAN 13, 09:57 PM
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The blue dot is the hole for the bolt, the yellow is the bolt. the red lines are the areas needing more clearance. I'd have to cut out about an inch and a half for the bracket to clear appropriately.
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mattwa
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JAN 13, 10:26 PM
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Pssh, cut or grind that area away on the cradle. I would anyway, the tie rod doesn't take on that much force.
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ericjon262
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JAN 13, 10:26 PM
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I pulled up several pictures of both 88, and pre 88 cradles, and it looks as though the 88 cradle is much more open in the area I'm having problems.
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ericjon262
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JAN 13, 10:37 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by mattwa:
Pssh, cut or grind that area away on the cradle. I would anyway, the tie rod doesn't take on that much force. |
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I know my luck, and I'n not going to push it. I've already started on a new mount.------------------
there's a Group on 60degreeV6.com for us 660 Fiero owners!
Fiero Owner's group on 60degreeV6.com
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L67
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JAN 14, 12:44 AM
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I figured as much, the tie rod anchor is the only variable between the cradles around the transmissions mount points. Eric, I'd email Roger that picture and explain your situation. He may even appreciate it enough to exchange your bracket with a revision.
If I were in your situation, and Roger didn't offer an alternative, I'd lightly radius the bracket on the left side, and grind some relief into the top of the cradle on the right. You won't have to remove much to align the hole in the bottom of the mount. Here's a illustration - jagged, but you can get the idea (laptop trackpad).
If you were to do so, you would need to be absolutely careful to radius very smooth reliefs to prevent stress risers, no jagged areas or steep incisions. Using an angle grinder with a fine grit sandpaper flap disk would work very well and give you a great deal control. This is of course an educated suggestion, which removes all variables of "luck" or "guesswork" from the equation, so no need to worry about pushing anyone's luck. I would suggest a different mount for anyone with a higher output engine, but for use with relatively low output engines such as the 60degree V6's and the NA and non modded supercharged 3800's, the relief on the left side of the mount shouldn't compromise structural integrity to an unsafe level, and the relief on the cradle will be a non issue.
By building your own mount, you are bringing a great deal more complexity into the mix; mount alignment, axial load integrity, weld integrity, etc. Not saying you couldn't tackle it, but if you're trying "not to push your luck", my suggestion is a much more conservative approach. I think Matt got a taste of how much mind power is required to build a mount from scratch recently.
Matt, that anchor point actually does see a great deal of load, as it is the only point of anchor for the rear tire toe angle. When you hit a pot hole with the older suspension, and the car bumpsteers, that force is transmitted directly to the tie rod anchors. You have to be thoughtful about cutting around them, or else the yield strength of the anchors can be compromised, and the anchors may go past their elasticity range when countering toe forces. The radius I highlighted in green on the cradle is of lesser importance to their integrity, than say a deeper radius closer to the base of the anchor.
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mattwa
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JAN 14, 12:59 AM
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Yea, I made all 4 mounts plus dogbone myself. Ugh. All out of 1/4" steel. Took about a month of working almost every day to make them, and yes alot of time was devoted to thinking of all the factors that go into designing your own mounts, every single one. I didn't like Rodger's mount and couldn't afford them anyway. The brackets only cost me about $75 to make though, and that includes things like welding rods and cutting wheels. It was a big learning experience at the least. They are beefy, but in some cases quite ugly because of revisions and stick welding (incredible penetration though). This way I don't have to really worry about them all that much if/when I decide to go turbo in the future. People say it's mounted over to the passenger side too far, but hey, I based it on the axles, so it doesn't really matter other then that.
Paul, yea, I see what you are saying. I'll see if I can fix that cut I made in that area then.[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-14-2012).]
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