Time for a semi-general pardon (unbanning banned members)? (Page 7/11)
Dennis LaGrua MAY 23, 04:46 PM
I believe that any member can get caught up in the rating system and be banned. There were certainly members here that because of their hostility were banned while some of these guys were just obnoxious and annoying. We need to separate disagreement and flaming. I have no problem seeing banned members return as long as they act like civilized people but those that were banned because they used this forum to rip people off or steal, no way. So how do we invite these guys back and insure that they do not revert to bad habits? I would say that the guys that know the banned members should chime in and recommend their return.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Cliff Pennock MAY 23, 05:55 PM
I can't remember exactly why all these people were banned. I do know I have never, ever banned someone because I got butt-hurt by someone. I could not care less if people hate my guts or think I am the worst moderator to ever roam the interwebs. That's simply not how I work. Anyone who knows me personally can attest to that fact.

That said, there is however a lot going on behind the scenes. Stuff that that never meets the public eye of the forum but which most certainly is a factor in the banning of people. There's a lot I do not disclose, simply because I don't think it's in the interest of anyone, and it would simply be enough to remove the person in question from the forum. That's why some people will never return. Even though people might not even understand the reason why they were banned in the first place.

There isn't a single person that has been banned that I hold a grudge against - with the exception of the few people that tried to destroy my business. I'm not sure if people remember, but a long time ago, some "Anti Pennock" persons found my business forum and they PM'd/emailed every single member on that forum with some BS story that all the software I wrote was stolen from them. Now of course, none of my clients believed that story but it did cost me a lot of goodwill with my clients. That actually hurt my business quite a bit. I mean, if that's what they were after, they succeeded. I thought of shutting down PFF at that moment because I was seriously questioning if it was all worth it.

But here we are. 21 years after I started PFF. Not only is PFF one of the oldest car forums around, it's one of the most active to boot. So I guess I'm not doing everything wrong.
steve308 MAY 23, 05:56 PM
I would bet that those who have been banned still visit the forum as guest or have signed up under a different name (and behaved). Those wishing to return should contact Cliff directly and request to be reinstated. No need to reach out to them. If they want back into the group, let them ask.
theogre MAY 23, 07:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Ogre, I suspect I've spent a lot more time in O/T than you over the years... and I've got to speak up in defense of JazzMan. I don't agree with everything JazzMan did at the end of his stay at PFF, but you've got to understand that the poor guy was endlessly harassed by the same political "clique" for years here. JazzMan had a vast knowledge of everything Fiero, which he was pleased to share, but certain individuals rode his ass continually simply because his political views were different than theirs. Over and over and over again, the Posting Rules, as set forth by Cliff Pennock, would be broken. JazzMan (and many of the rest of us) couldn't understand why these rules wouldn't be enforced (specifically the ones regarding being "civilized"). JazzMan eventually snapped (and yes, he was obviously upset with Cliff's inaction), the perpetrators of his misery were no doubt elated, and the rest is history. PFF lost a valuable member, and the Fiero community was the lesser for it. Similar patterns have repeated over the years with other valuable members. It's so frustrating to witness.

Just to be clear, I'm ever so appreciative with what Cliff Pennock has created here... but as with anything and everything else, improvements can be made. Transgressors simply (or maybe not so simply) need to be held accountable when the posted rules here are broken, especially when it's being done repeatedly.

I just barely skimmed over Jazzman's problems. I liked him and I'm not going to discuss more details here now.
So Yes, some push he's buttons almost to death and goes well beyond political views.
Many have tried to push buttons for others but many of the "victims" simply don't give a F what people say or think.

One big problem was CP refused to have "ToS" type posting rules in "the good old days" made problems. Adding/Changing Rules after for whatever reason and doesn't enforce (real or imaged) made other problems. Now PFF is just another Censored Arm of Google to get Adwords money that wants everything to be PC, Woke and Worse is just trying not to get ban itself again allowing some TO/T threads for "hate speech," "anti-china," etc.
theogre MAY 23, 07:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by steve308:
I would bet that those who have been banned still visit the forum as guest or have signed up under a different name (and behaved). Those wishing to return should contact Cliff directly and request to be reinstated. No need to reach out to them. If they want back into the group, let them ask.

With the current easy of using VPN TOR etc... Is likely some have gotten around PFF bans.

Many others just don't give a F for different reasons Like Many had a Fiero but not now. Other are just Trolls that want bigger audience that FT FB YT and more provides.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-23-2020).]

Patrick MAY 23, 09:49 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

I just barely skimmed over Jazzman's problems. I liked him and I'm not going to discuss more details here now.
So Yes, some push he's buttons almost to death and goes well beyond political views.



Yes, there was more to the story that only long-term members might be aware of... but I agree, there's no point rehashing those details here. However, knowing what we know, it wasn't a total surprise that JazzMan finally snapped from the harassment. Some people are just cruel.
85fieroguy MAY 23, 10:25 PM
Put some guys on probation, and if they screw up..permanent ban. As for some " notorious" guys..keep them off the site. Once and arse, always an arse.
85fieroguy MAY 23, 10:26 PM
Put some guys on probation, and if they screw up..permanent ban. As for some " notorious" guys..keep them off the site. Once and arse, always an arse.
Fats MAY 24, 12:30 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

... You have got to be kidding.

Some members have been banned for good reason, and should never be allowed to return.

On the other hand, someone like JazzMan was picked on relentlessly by the usual suspects (of that era) until he just snapped and went kind of bonkers... which included him deleting a lot of his very helpful tech posts.




Whoa there buddy. Keep your politically biased views out of this. Jazz was a douche for a long time prior to getting kicked.
Patrick MAY 24, 01:04 AM

quote
Originally posted by Fats:

Whoa there buddy. Keep your politically biased views out of this.



Have you bumped your head?



quote
Originally posted by Fats:

Jazz was a douche for a long time prior to getting kicked.



Thank-you for your fine contribution to this thread.