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| Time for a semi-general pardon (unbanning banned members)? (Page 6/11) |
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sourmash
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MAY 23, 11:19 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Quadfather:
As for T/OT, if you don’t like what’s posted there, don’t visit it. Instead of asking Cliff to moderate the content or remove the whole section, you can address the situation yourself by not reading the posts. |
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Dead horse alert: I understand it's staying and it doesn't impact me since I really don't follow that forum as yet. And realizing you prob weren't speaking to me, but this spring some of the O/T came into one of the other forums where a couple of people were at least trashing one another for their exact positions in there. It's uncommon, but was this year. I suspect there are members in there who never post in the rest of the forums. I'm not a moderator and exercised the option to just overlook it on the regular forum, just as I don't engage in the topics in the O/T forum.
I'm opinionated and not politically correct so this is from experience: everybody surely knows that when people see who believes what it definitely will alter how people will interact with them on other forums. It may be a positive outcome depending on beliefs, but typically people remember those they disagree with first. So it's not a zero sum. Many of the topic headings are provocation and people look at the originator, so just understand you might be limiting yourself from future tech help.
But it's not a topic open for forum votes, and doesn't alter my view of the technical forums either way. Seeing Rodney and the other guy going at each other a good while back on the regular forum pained me to watch. Nothing good was to result.
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fieroguru
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MAY 23, 11:51 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by sourmash:
Seeing Rodney and the other guys going at each other a good while back on the regular forum pained me to watch. Nothing good was to result. |
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That was nothing... over the years there have been A LOT of dyno/non-dyno, 3800/V8, auto/manual, wheel spacer, kitcar/replica, SBC hating, quarter mile, etc. threads in general and tech.
There used to be a lot more very, very, very creative/talented/skilled/funded members. More often than not, those members also had strong beliefs/opinions/personalities/egos and some even had diagnosed conditions like Asperger that made them exceptional at some things and down tight terrible at others. There were disagreements just about every day to some degree and the Trash Can was a much more happening place to visit to see what went down in the last day or two.
To some degree it pushed the creativity and development of the hobby forward. There were 50+ epic builds being posted about with progress being made, new parts, methods, and what-if discussions were happening all the time. It was truly a great place to see and do some great things and converse with some exceptionally talented people. There are many reasons why we are where we are today, and why some of the highest contributing members are no longer here... but I do miss those days.
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Cliff Pennock
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MAY 23, 01:23 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by IMSA GT:
If you want to do something helpful, run a script on the server that auto-deletes accounts that have not been logged into for over a year. Then the existing rating bars will change and be accurate once those dead accounts are off the server.
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Actually, that's something that is already implemented. It's something I have to start manually though and I haven't done that in quite some time. Will do so later today. Heads up: your ratings may change. 
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Cliff Pennock
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MAY 23, 01:39 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by fieroguru:
but I do miss those days. |
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The problem is of course that back in those days, it required quite a bit of knowledge, funds and other resources to create a forum/website. Nowadays, anyone who thinks they can do better than PFF can get WordPress hosting for a few dollars per month, install free forum software and off they go. And then of course there's social media.
All this creates factions within the Fiero community. People who like/dislike PFF. People who like/dislike social media. People who dislike/like whatever it is they can think of to create their own little corner in the Fiero world.
Now say what you will about PFF. But one thing you can be sure of and that is that its owner (meeee!) is doing everything possible to keep this resource alive and up and running. My main focus is its data. I'd rather have that in a few years time only a handful of members remain but all data since its inception is still readily available, than that it has a million members but there's no data to share. Facebook might be nice 'n all, but it has no historical data. None. PFF has a crap load of gems from the past that should never be lost.
But yeah, I understand where you're coming from when you say you miss those days. Back then we were all part of something special. That unfortunately has all changed.
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theogre
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MAY 23, 02:10 PM
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Most came, asked 1 or a few Q then little to nothing. And for no reason wanted free/cheap answers then left. Most have sold or junk their Fiero by now. Worse sold them w/ crap mod's/"upgrades" push by many here to first suckers they could find then some now tries to undo the problems.
Or some like Rodney D mainly only post to Spam PFF for a new product etc.
Then RD left because some few question he's "Fiero God" status. While he does make some good products, business policy over time and some products have problems and when confronted everyone else is a moron and "flame war" resulted.
Others like TL/BTR suck money for illegal "upgrades" then close the whole shop and use a new name again in other markets.
Some used TO/T and other post on other pages as reason to leave but is BS. Many of those got in fame wars then whine blaming others.
Like Years ago some fool can't read MSDS claiming X product had Y chem. It didn't and got called and whined everyone here including me that PFF is full of morons and then "took his ball and went home" kind of fit.
Tony Kania, Jazzman and others where ok to good in other pages and went "nuts" in TO/T at the end. Jazzman even threaten CP w/ © lawsuits etc before was banned. Is Why Jazzman tried to edit every page before final ban.
TK likely Was Not "speed banned" because Even the Small Arrow was not even close to the end of red.
Un-banning won't matter to most Trolls because many Trolls moved to get a better audience.------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)
The Ogre's Fiero Cave
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theogre
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MAY 23, 02:35 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Skatulaki:
I wasn't around here long enough to witness any banning, or any banning of someone I might have had rapport with !
However my personal opinion is this: Banning to me is the same as Bullying! Who do you side with? The Bully/Banner, or the Bullied? In the USA , we have a First Amendment right to Freedom of Speech, If you have some people who can't get along to well, rather than ban them, move them into a "Romper Room" until they have agreed to settle their differences. Banning does not settle anything!
No I'm not some snowflake, I grew up the runt, and had to pop a few bullies in the mouth to earn respect! |
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Funny, in the sad way, that You Claim you're Not a "snowflake" but still have No Clue 1st A Does Not apply to Private Property.
Is Why YT, FB, Patreon and most others have ToS etc that basically saying Can Ban Anyone for Any Reason and been doing so since all where started.
Is Not just Online either. Go to a local Store or Mall and try same thing... Most can and will kick you out at minimum or have you arrested for anything they don't like you saying, wearing, etc. Dare you go to a mall or store wearing Buy Nothing Day on Black Friday or any other day. I know many malls will call cops to arrest you. All say No Soliciting because they Don't want JW, Mormons, and other groups pushing pamphlets etc on their property.
If you think SCOTUS protects your 1st A on Private Property... Wrong.
More, PFF is in NL and EU and their laws don't give a crap on US "Rights."
YT and many more bans more and more people every day w/o reason to anyone. A big reason Why Joe Rogan is moving off of YT and icrap.
Even Twitch is now so Woke has new fake "Trust & Safety Council" crap.
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Patrick
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MAY 23, 03:49 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
Jazzman and others where ok to good in other pages and went "nuts" in TO/T at the end. Jazzman even threaten CP w/ © lawsuits etc before was banned. Is Why Jazzman tried to edit every page before final ban.
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Ogre, I suspect I've spent a lot more time in O/T than you over the years... and I've got to speak up in defense of JazzMan. I don't agree with everything JazzMan did at the end of his stay at PFF, but you've got to understand that the poor guy was endlessly harassed by the same political "clique" for years here. JazzMan had a vast knowledge of everything Fiero, which he was pleased to share, but certain individuals rode his ass continually simply because his political views were different than theirs. Over and over and over again, the Posting Rules, as set forth by Cliff Pennock, would be broken. JazzMan (and many of the rest of us) couldn't understand why these rules wouldn't be enforced (specifically the ones regarding being "civilized"). JazzMan eventually snapped (and yes, he was obviously upset with Cliff's inaction), the perpetrators of his misery were no doubt elated, and the rest is history. PFF lost a valuable member, and the Fiero community was the lesser for it. Similar patterns have repeated over the years with other valuable members. It's so frustrating to witness.
Just to be clear, I'm ever so appreciative with what Cliff Pennock has created here... but as with anything and everything else, improvements can be made. Transgressors simply (or maybe not so simply) need to be held accountable when the posted rules here are broken, especially when it's being done repeatedly.
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IMSA GT
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MAY 23, 04:03 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
JazzMan eventually snapped (and yes, he was obviously upset with Cliff's inaction), the perpetrators of his misery were no doubt elated, and the rest is history.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Nick request Cliff ban him? I didn't think he was banned by the members on here but directly by Cliff at his request.[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 05-23-2020).]
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sourmash
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MAY 23, 04:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
...Over and over and over again, the Posting Rules, as set forth by Cliff Pennock, would be broken. JazzMan (and many of the rest of us) couldn't understand why these rules wouldn't be enforced (specifically the ones regarding being "civilized"). JazzMan eventually snapped (and yes, he was obviously upset with Cliff's inaction), the perpetrators of his misery were no doubt elated, and the rest is history. PFF lost a valuable member, and the Fiero community was the lesser for it. Similar patterns have repeated over the years with other valuable members. It's so frustrating to witness.
Just to be clear, I'm ever so appreciative with what Cliff Pennock has created here... but as with anything and everything else, improvements can be made. Transgressors simply (or maybe not so simply) need to be held accountable when the posted rules here are broken, especially when it's being done repeatedly. |
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That's well said. Forums tend to get a few members who group up just to pile on someone, and they don't care to destroy greater harmony to achieve a goal. A good couple of moderators with proper temperament can squelch that without showing favoritism.
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Patrick
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MAY 23, 04:22 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by IMSA GT:
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Nick request Cliff ban him? I didn't think he was banned by the members on here but directly by Cliff at his request.
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Yes, you're correct. Digging back into forum history, the reason that Nick (fierofetish) wanted to be banned was that he admitted to be lacking the willpower to stay away from the forum.  And why would Nick wish to stay away? Because he was so frustrated and disgusted with seeing the forum's rules (regarding civilized behavior) being broken time and time again and nothing being done about it. Unfortunately, we've lost a lot of good members due to this issue.
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