88 3800SC F23 Build (Page 4/8)
paulsobj DEC 19, 09:12 PM
I picked up my rotating assembly today. It was $335 to balance everything, polish the crank, resurface the flywheel, and recondition? the connecting rods. Not sure the terms for the connecting rod machining. They were slightly oval. They cut the rod cap and to make it shorter and machine the center again to make it stock again. That way you don't have to buy over sized bearings.

Here is the Crank that was in spec and just needed to be polished.



They weigh the pistons and machine the set to the lightest one. The lightest one was 418.5 grams. You can see where they took out some aluminum.



They weigh each end of the connecting rod and make the set all match to the lightest one. You can see where they ground off on the rods.





Here is where they machined the hole to make it true again.



I see most guys talk about balancing the flywheel and there are a few things to note. I am not machining it down almost 1/4" to .840". I am spacing the case out 1/4" to make room. I also see that some say to machine the back side so if you need to resurface it later it wont lose its balance. I think that may be your option if you don't balance your rotating assembly. They take the flex plate and flip it 180 degrees and zero balance from there IIRC. My machinist said that the Camaro flywheel is externally balanced and balanced the crank to it. The reason for that is if I need to replace the flywheel the stock balance should be close. It was actually very close and he only had to weld in a small amount on the rear of the crank and take off a small amount on the front. Make sure to resurface the flywheel prior to balancing. Mine was very slightly warped, another reason that making it thinner is a bad idea...





Almost forgot here is the spec sheet so I can replace parts without rebalancing.

[This message has been edited by paulsobj (edited 12-04-2023).]

paulsobj DEC 23, 03:17 PM
I was able to get out to the shop yesterday. I received the correct bearing that I ordered from Amazon....



My dad traced the F23 and cut out a construction paper template. He then brought it to work to get scanned by a machine that traces 2D objects and creates CAD files. He then had it cut on 1/4" steel. We brought it to the shop and it was actually very close. We had to move a few holes slightly and only one was noticeably off. We are going to adjust the CAD file and if anyone would like a copy let me know... I can also make more spacers for a yet to be determined price.



[This message has been edited by paulsobj (edited 12-04-2023).]

paulsobj DEC 28, 09:53 PM
I finally got the main bearings after a long wait. I started to get the crank ready to install and washed it (get off the machining particles) then sprayed it with WD40 (stop rust from the water I used to wash it) then wiped it down and blew it with compressed air. I found one bearing had a scratch in it that was large enough to concern me. I used some emery cloth to smooth it down very ever so slightly. Then I placed the crank in dry and plastigaged the mains. The hard part was getting the main caps out without messing up the plastigage. If you look closely at the picture you can see the plastigage.



After I checked the clearance

Main Bearing to Journal Clearance 1
0.0178-0.0406 mm
0.0007-0.0016 in

Main Bearing to Journal Clearance 2, 3 and 4
0.0229-0.0457 mm
0.0009-0.0018 in

I lubed up the bearings and torqued the caps to spec it is a two step:
30FtLbs + 110°

I have had the question what is with the temperature? Well first of all if you have to ask then I think you may be out of your league... take the engine to a shop asap....But for those who are just curious 90° is an additional 1/4 turn and 180° is an additional 1/2 turn etc.

My dad started cutting the cradle up and fabricating the tube he pulled from the scrap bin.



Here is some part numbers stamped in the cam. Not sure if it is after market or stock. I assume it is stock as the only thing I found modified was the pulley.

[This message has been edited by paulsobj (edited 12-04-2023).]

lurtz DEC 29, 03:25 PM
Hi there!. I had to chime in for a couple of reasons. 1.) One of my current daily drivers is a 40th anniversary Gprix and it has about 145k on it. I've had it for 10 years now and am just waiting for the salty roads of New Hampshire to finally eat the body before I retire it and put the engine into another Fiero. So I will be bookmarking and watching your write up! 2) I noticed that you are in Shakopee. I was born many moons ago in Shakopee at St. Francis Hospital (not sure if it is still open or not) and still have some family out there. I had to mention it as most people from Shakopee say they are from Minneapolis because no one recognizes the smaller suburb . It has been a very long time since I have been to the Land of 10,000 lakes, and I was very young when I was there so I do not remember much other then it was really flat and could be really cold in the winter.

Good luck with your build! Looks like you have the perfect work space to hunker down and get some stuff done during a Minnesota winter!
paulsobj DEC 30, 09:31 AM

quote
Originally posted by lurtz:

Hi there!. I had to chime in for a couple of reasons. 1.) One of my current daily drivers is a 40th anniversary Gprix and it has about 145k on it. I've had it for 10 years now and am just waiting for the salty roads of New Hampshire to finally eat the body before I retire it and put the engine into another Fiero. So I will be bookmarking and watching your write up! 2) I noticed that you are in Shakopee. I was born many moons ago in Shakopee at St. Francis Hospital (not sure if it is still open or not) and still have some family out there. I had to mention it as most people from Shakopee say they are from Minneapolis because no one recognizes the smaller suburb . It has been a very long time since I have been to the Land of 10,000 lakes, and I was very young when I was there so I do not remember much other then it was really flat and could be really cold in the winter.

Good luck with your build! Looks like you have the perfect work space to hunker down and get some stuff done during a Minnesota winter!



Yes St. Francis is there and they are much bigger then when you were here. Shakopee is also grown to about 40,000. I would always say I was from Minneapolis when I was in the NAVY. Glad you are following my build!

Brian
paulsobj JAN 03, 10:49 PM
I had a strange turn of events. I do contractor work and the contract was not renewed on accident so I get 1-2 weeks paid vacation... impeccable timing.

I started installing the lifters. I put them in the same place they came out. They can go in two ways. If you want to get them back in the same orientation look at this picture. You will notice a stain in the lifter.



If you look into the block you will see that the bottom side has a void that allowed the oil to stain the lifter. So place the lifter stain toward the floor.



I checked the ring gap and installed the ring and assembled the pistons. I put them in the same way I took them out. I noticed that they didn't have and obvious markings for the direction. I did see that they were not symmetrical. You can see the green area and I also found two arrows. The pistons did not come out with all arrows pointing up as I would have suspected.



I decided to install them the way they came out.

Here is a picture of all the pistons in. I did one at a time and plastigaged each as I went.

Rod Bearing Clearance
0.0127-0.0660 mm
0.0005-0.0026 in



Timing chain



Rings



I painted the Oil filter extension thing and rear main housing. Note DO NOT use haynes manuals as a reference! I use multiple sources for torque specs, clearances and techniques. I just use it as another source, If one source if different then I stop and investigate. I dont want people to think I am some haynes manual jockey... haha



Here is where I stopped for the day. Also got it taped off and painted.



I skipped some parts of today but its not too hard. I doubt you will forget to put on head gaskets and torque the heads...I will try to get the part number for pushrods. Here is one source for torque specs that I use. Torque Specifications for GM 3.8L-231ci-V6

[This message has been edited by paulsobj (edited 12-04-2023).]

mender JAN 04, 11:15 AM
Next rebuild I recommend using this instead the white grease mix:
http://www.nevlock-performa.../u/f/uf_2800b2_1.jpg

I build race engines for a living, so I'm not a fan of plastigauge but it can work if you're careful. If you have any indication that the clearances are under 0.0020" for the rods and 0.0024" for the mains, stop and get it verified/corrected.

Nice adapter and subframe mods, I also do fab work and appreciate quality pieces!

[This message has been edited by mender (edited 01-04-2017).]

paulsobj JAN 06, 10:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by mender:

Next rebuild I recommend using this instead the white grease mix:
http://www.nevlock-performa.../u/f/uf_2800b2_1.jpg

I build race engines for a living, so I'm not a fan of plastigauge but it can work if you're careful. If you have any indication that the clearances are under 0.0020" for the rods and 0.0024" for the mains, stop and get it verified/corrected.

Nice adapter and subframe mods, I also do fab work and appreciate quality pieces!




I hope to not be rebuilding this anytime soon (hopefully) but I will look into that lube when I do.

I didnt know there was anything other than plastigage? what do you use?

If the Rod clearance tolerance was 0.0005-0.0026" wouldn't that mean that the factory had it on the tight end and as time passed they would get looser and have larger gaps? I know race guys like to make them loose for less friction (less HP loss) but you lose oil pressure. I had them around .0014-17 IIRC.

I will post some pics as the frame get closer to completion. I want a look like it could have come from a factory or at least less home made.

paulsobj JAN 06, 11:23 PM
Well I seem to be moving right along. Before I forget here is a comparison of the old pushrods and new. Remember that the old were scored and so were the rockers.



I wonder how much that affected performance. I bet the rocker had just as much missing material.

Here is the part number for the pushrods.



When I was torquing the head bolts I was a little nervous. The last time I was doing this I stripped out my 2.8 in Hawaii and had to pull the engine and rebuild it with my shop and tools in MN.... So when the first bolt was near spec POP... OH NO! I checked the socket and bolt and thought I stripped it out again. Nope it was the socket after all. I was so happy.



Here is the oil pump I filled with Vaseline. This step many people never heard of but it is recommended in most factory service manuals. It helps the gears get suction and pull the oil efficiently on first start up.



I had a question and yes I googled it. I found this timing mark in the oil pump gear. I found no references to how it is to be aligned. I did find many say they had found it different ways with no rhyme or reason. I decided to place it as close to the crank timing mark as I could.



My first regress, I put on the Harmonic Balancer before the plastic part. When I pulled off the Ballancer the puller messed up the first 2-3 threads on the crank. So off to Fastenal... $35 and a huge 3/4 fine thread tap later.



I cracked open the SC and inspected it. I used the red Permatex® Anaerobic Gasket Maker 51813 to seal it back up. GM SC oil #12345982 you need two 4oz bottles.



[This message has been edited by paulsobj (edited 12-04-2023).]

paulsobj JAN 16, 10:30 PM
I have been busy as usual at the shop.

I found a crack on the trunk side exhaust manifold. We were able to get it welded up.



I ground off all the casting marks to clean up the firewall side manifold





I cut off the EGR tube and welded up the hole.



From the outside after paint.





Cleaned up the SC and prepped for paint



Post paint



Cut the cast dog bone/tensioner/idler/coil pack assembly and painted it.





I am sending the harness to Dan and I am also installing this Tach. I talked about it awhile ago and just got around to getting a picture.



As some can see I am trying to make the swap appear to be a stock set up. Or at least to the untrained non Fiero owner's eye. I don't want things to look too homemade.

My dad picked up this new toy this week.

[This message has been edited by paulsobj (edited 12-04-2023).]