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| Manual Transmissions are Nearly Gone (Page 2/4) |
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cvxjet
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MAY 08, 05:39 PM
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I had never driven a stick when I ordered my Fiero SE V6 in 1985...with a manual transmission....Gutsiest thing I ever did....Blew my father's mind...He had been driving sports cars before I came along and ruined his life (Check out Jowett Jupiter- Flat-4...With radiator BEHIND the engine...Won at Le Mans 3 years in a row (In 1.5 L class)
Here is my personal take on Manual transmissions;
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Vintage-Nut
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MAY 08, 07:21 PM
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No one has brought up automatic transmission repair costs...
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1985 Fiero GT
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MAY 08, 09:51 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Vintage-Nut:
No one has brought up automatic transmission repair costs...
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The cost, the worse efficiency (even just slightly), the life, and the biggest thing is that manuals are not dying, only in North America is that happening, Europe for the most part still prefers manual, third world countries get a mix from richer countries, and don't specifically have a preference, only in North America, where automatics have been hyped and pushed as luxury and better are they taking over. The less control people have over their car, the worse they are at controlling it when it matters most, so you'll get people relying on their auto parallel parking, blind spot monitoring, Lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, and then when something breaks, or they get into a bad situation, all they can do is hang on and go for the ride. People who drive their cars, and are engaged in every aspect at all times will have control to start with, and will maintain that control as best as possible through whatever they may face, instead of the car having the control, then when it gets too hard for it, it dumps that situation in your lap and you aren't prepared for it. Each transmission has its pros and cons, neither one is technically "better"than the other, they are to different to make that choice, it's down to personal preference, budget, and a few other things. I like in Europe where they you have to take your driving test with a manual car for a full unrestricted license, train for the "worst" (hardest), and then what comes later is easy, train on automatic, and you aren't allowed to touch the "harder" cars until you retrain, it's an extra level to achieve, a valuable skill to possess.
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css9450
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MAY 09, 08:29 AM
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It was funny when I bought my WRX four years ago.... The sales guy said they get a lot of kids who come in and they want to test-drive just because they want to learn to drive a manual, and he has to kind of weed them out so they don't damage the cars. So he kind of sheepishly asked me if I knew how to drive it. It was funny because I might be old enough to be his dad.
A good manual is enjoyable to drive.... Every Honda manual I have driven, for example, has been great. But on the other hand, I had an S-10 pickup 5-speed for a couple years, and I hated it. Being stuck in traffic would drive me to road rage. My WRX is somewhere in-between. It's better than the S-10 but not as precise as a Honda.
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Raydar
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MAY 09, 03:33 PM
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My wife and I both prefer manuals. We also each drive a Wrangler, as our daily, and have the "Manual Gearbox Preservation Society" license plate frames on our vehicles.
We had to have her Rubicon shipped from California, because there were no red, manual Rubicons anywhere near us. (Side note... even with shipping, we still saved money over the local dealers.)
I have a 5 speed in my 4.9 car. The gearing is absolutely wrong for the tractor torque of the engine, but it's still a blast to drive. It was so boring with the automatic that I almost sold it.
Yeah... you get to feel what the vehicle is doing. You don't get that with the automatics. Even the good ones. Although the 8 speed CDJR automatic transmission is very good.
But I suspect the reason that more cars are not offered with manuals is because each individual drivetrain must undergo its own certification for CARB, and all the other goobermental silliness. With a little bit of luck, that will change, shortly. (See my - and a few others' - recent P&R posts.)
Dennis, you're on a sports car forum. I don't know why you always seem to want to choose this hill to die on.
Why do we do manuals? Because that's what we want. Even if we have to seek them out, piece them together in some cases, and make them work in our applications.
Stay the course, manual fans.
 [This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-09-2025).]
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Cliff Pennock
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MAY 10, 05:17 AM
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In Europe, I'd say at least 80% of all cars are manual - maybe even more. Personally, I prefer driving a manual over most modern automatic transmissions. Why? Because it gives me more precise control over when the car shifts gears.
That said, I actually prefer older automatics to manuals. Let me explain. Take my Fiero, for example - it has an automatic transmission, but I can still make it shift exactly when I want it to, whether that’s up or down. I think the ECM has something to do with it, but I’m not entirely sure. What I've noticed is that it's not just the throttle position that determines when it shifts, but also how quickly you move the throttle. So by controlling both the speed and position of the throttle, I can pretty much dictate when it changes gears. Sometimes I just want it to shift down without actually accelerating. I can do that by briefly and quickly throttle up, then throttle down again once it has shifted down. It doesn't accelerate, it just shifts down. And of course, there’s the kickdown option, which drops it down a gear and gives full throttle.
Modern automatics - at least the ones we get here in Europe - seem to rely only on throttle position. That affects acceleration speed, sure, but hardly influences the gear it’s in. It’s strange. I can rapidly modulate the throttle, but the car doesn’t react at all. In my Fiero, doing that would definitely cause a response…
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Dennis LaGrua
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MAY 10, 09:07 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
In Europe, I'd say at least 80% of all cars are manual - maybe even more. Personally, I prefer driving a manual over most modern automatic transmissions. Why? Because it gives me more precise control over when the car shifts gears.
That said, I actually prefer older automatics to manuals. Let me explain. Take my Fiero, for example - it has an automatic transmission, but I can still make it shift exactly when I want it to, whether that’s up or down. I think the ECM has something to do with it, but I’m not entirely sure. What I've noticed is that it's not just the throttle position that determines when it shifts, but also how quickly you move the throttle. So by controlling both the speed and position of the throttle, I can pretty much dictate when it changes gears. Sometimes I just want it to shift down without actually accelerating. I can do that by briefly and quickly throttle up, then throttle down again once it has shifted down. It doesn't accelerate, it just shifts down. And of course, there’s the kickdown option, which drops it down a gear and gives full throttle.
Modern automatics - at least the ones we get here in Europe - seem to rely only on throttle position. That affects acceleration speed, sure, but hardly influences the gear it’s in. It’s strange. I can rapidly modulate the throttle, but the car doesn’t react at all. In my Fiero, doing that would definitely cause a response… |
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I drove manual cars for years, even used a standard gearbox in a drag race car. Back then cars that had the automatic transmissions of the day were way less efficient and had internal slippage. The cars with manual transmissions provided better mileage and performance. There is probably some truth to that today. Over time, the automatic transmissions were improved had lock up converters and up to 9 speeds. The 1/4 mile performance was improved, they were perfect for bracket racing and it was time to switch.
I completely understand folks that prefer the manual for the more exciting nostalgic driving experience but here in the USA manuals have been almost phased out. FACT The vast majority of the buyer base doesn't seem to want them. As for new American sports cars going auto just look at the Corvette. Not telling anyone what they should or should not use just about my preference and why.
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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE " [This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-10-2025).]
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Vintage-Nut
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MAY 10, 11:06 AM
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| quote | Dennis LaGrua:
The vast majority of the {American} buyer base doesn't seem to want them. |
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Americans prefer automatic transmissions over manual ones because they generally like things to be convenient and easy...
AND
Americans are much more likely to be doing several things at once when they’re driving!!
Why Do Americans Drive Automatic—But Most of Europe Drives Manual?
https://www.rd.com/article/...ans-drive-automatic/[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 05-10-2025).]
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reinhart
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MAY 10, 06:38 PM
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As someone that currently has both types of Fiero transmissions, I think I am somewhat unbiased.
We need to realize that automatic transmission technology has come a long way in 40 years, whereas manual transmissions are about the same as ever with perhaps a 6th gear thrown in and fully synchronized reverse. What have autos got now? As some have pointed out 9 speeds for superior or at least equivalent gas mileage. Better non-slipping torque converters. Manual shifting of the autos with either paddles or moving the shifter lever without having to use a clutch which is slow and more work.
There are people that still prefer doing everything manually: rolling their windows down because there's fewer parts to break, or manual mirrors, or even manual transmissions.
I realize there can be somewhat of a "fun factor" to a manual, but ultimately, I think an automatic with paddle shifters would be even more fun than a clutched manual. Would "manual enthusiasts" still prefer a clutched manual over a "clutchless manual" (which is just an automatic with manual shifting)? I don't think most would, which is why a type of automatic with shifting would be superior. Think about a race course, I would rather have both hands on the wheel especially in a turn paddle shifting, rather than constantly taking one hand off to reach for a floor shifter.
Ultimately a VRT automatic is the ultimate transmission for performance and fuel economy: Being able to stay at the best power RPM for an entire acceleration or at the most efficient RPM for a given speed's gas mileage would give the fastest acceleration. Looking forward to the day when we get a build thread on "VRTing my Fiero".
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KissMySSFiero
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MAY 12, 09:21 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by fieroguru:
This is one of my favorite shirts. It helps that it has the same shift pattern as the F40.
For me it is about the driving experience.
You are more connected with the car and you are in control.
This is also why I drive a Fiero... I like the driving experience. |
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I'm going to have to remember to get a shirt like this now. ------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com
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