84-87 vs 88 handling/ride (Page 2/2)
David Hambleton MAR 30, 09:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Condescending much?




Lol! With all due respect to King Ogre (occupation per his profile) I'm one of the (happily satisfied) idiots that ordered the WS6 sport suspension on my '84 SE despite that precluding a preferred 5 speed transmission that year.
I haven't regretted that decision handling-wise and it was confirmed when I got the factory original '86 Base Coupe.
My driving experience as noted in my 28Mar2023 post above leads me to believe the '84 SE WS6 springs are stiffer than the '86 Base Coupe springs.
My expressed cornering confidence in the '84 may be due to the stickier BF Goodrich Radial TA 215/60 R14 tires compared to the 205/60 R15 Bridgestone Ecopia all season front tires on the Formula.
I still drive all three, consciously contemplating the handling comparisons.
82-T/A [At Work] MAR 31, 07:40 AM
I think a lot has been said, but I would just ask people what they mean when they say a "better ride," because this can mean a lot of different things to different people.

You asked the right question, but people gave you different answers. I think it's best to consider two approaches... which physically has better cornering limits and which has better (more predictive) suspension behavior. But I'm not here to argue that.

I did want to make ONE comment though... a lot of people talk about ride quality as in, the way the car handles bumps, curves, and general driving. A really stiff suspension can make the Fiero really frustrating to drive, especially when you get older and you're not like 18 anymore looking for that all-out race-car feel, haha.

A lot of people want "German" handling, and having had a lot of Volkswagens, I can kind of explain what that is. Stiff springs, but moderate shocks. This is the ability to hug a corner or maneuver the car without a lot of sway, while not being jarred horribly by going over every little bump in the road. The way to achieve this in the Fiero is to get the WS6-rated springs. I've had several WS6 Pontiac vehicles in the past, and with the WS6 package, the springs were always stiffer. You can then install the WS6 springs along with moderate shocks. Basically... not something like a KYB or a KONI... but the shocks that you would have found in the Y99 suspension (like an SE or something). This gives you the best of both worlds, which is a flatter more stable footing, without losing your **** every time you hit a pothole.

I also prefer the GT steering rack (tighter ratio), and going with polyurethane bushings on the engine cradle and sway bar.


Hope that helps.



quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:
My driving experience as noted in my 28Mar2023 post above leads me to believe the '84 SE WS6 springs are stiffer than the '86 Base Coupe springs.



Yes, they definitely are different. I was restoring a 1981 Pontiac TransAm WS6 w/ C&C T-Tops many years ago, and I went to AMES Performance to order some replacement springs, and they listed several spring options. The springs all had different ratios, the WS6 being the stiffest. The Fiero is the same way. If I remember correctly, the Fiero had four different kinds of suspension options (three different springs and you can still get all of them from NAPA Auto Parts):

- Base Suspension, which you got if you got the totally unoptioned Fiero
- F41, which was called the "Heavy Duty" suspension. It came with slightly stiffer springs
- Y99, which was called the "Special Rally Package," (or something to this effect), which included stiffer shocks and the F41 springs, and better tires
- WS6, which was the performance suspension package, which came with much stiffer springs, and stiffer shocks... and it might have even included the better steering rack as part of that option.


(Note, you could often get the F41 and Y99 together on the same car, but you needed to have the F41 first before you could get the Y99)

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 03-31-2023).]

TheDigitalAlchemist MAR 31, 12:21 PM
Has anyone compared turning at slower speeds between the pre88's and 88's? my pre-88's all required more muscle than the Formula. I had put a GT style wheel on it, and it almost felt like it had power steering compared to the earlier years. Like a finger could get me out of a parking spot. the other ones , I had to grab that wheel and 'work it, baby'...
Raydar MAR 31, 01:51 PM
Regarding "steering feel"...
I had an 85 GT that was purchased new. At age 28, I found it a complete pain in the azz to drive on very rough roads or grooved roads (such as where they're about to resurface.)
It was so bad that I sold the car. If you've ever lived in GA, you understand. They're always re-surfacing something, especially the interstates.
I haven't experienced that with any of my 88s. There's a lot to be said for the reduced scrub radius, and the amount of kickback that is NOT felt with the 88. Even without the steering damper that came on the earlier years.
82-T/A [At Work] MAR 31, 03:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by TheDigitalAlchemist:

Has anyone compared turning at slower speeds between the pre88's and 88's? my pre-88's all required more muscle than the Formula. I had put a GT style wheel on it, and it almost felt like it had power steering compared to the earlier years. Like a finger could get me out of a parking spot. the other ones , I had to grab that wheel and 'work it, baby'...




I can't say specifically for 88s, but I've had some Fieros that were easier to drive than others.

My 1984 2m4 SE had an automatic, and that one had really hard to turn steering. I don't know what rack it had on it, but it had the WS6 suspension. My 1987 Fiero SE/V6 was a LOT easier to drive, and it came with those paddle horn buttons, but the steering wheel felt larger. I now have a GT steering wheel in that SE, for what it's worth. I think it's really the combination of whether or not you have the larger steering wheel and the higher gearing.



quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Regarding "steering feel"...
I had an 85 GT that was purchased new. At age 28, I found it a complete pain in the azz to drive on very rough roads or grooved roads (such as where they're about to resurface.)
It was so bad that I sold the car. If you've ever lived in GA, you understand. They're always re-surfacing something, especially the interstates.
I haven't experienced that with any of my 88s. There's a lot to be said for the reduced scrub radius, and the amount of kickback that is NOT felt with the 88. Even without the steering damper that came on the earlier years.



I will say though, that when my steering dampener went bad on my 87... the car was almost undriveable. I'm sure I probably posted on here like 20+ years ago, and someone told me I need to just change this one thing and magic would happen... so to the Fiero Store I went and ordered it... and it was like night and day. With a bad dampener, the steering wheel would get yanked out of my hand every time I'd hit a pothole or a groove in the road.
David Hambleton MAR 31, 09:47 PM
My '84 SE 4 speed arrived new with Goodyear Eagle 215/60 R14 tires in May1984. Slow speed steering needed significantly more effort than I thought it should.

I thought with the mid engine it might be good in snow like a VW bug, but it was reluctant to get going and resisted turning and stopping. Parked it was ok.
In Nov1986 I put 185/80 R13 General all season tires on and it performed like a normal car in the snow and the steering was noticeably easier.
I used the skinny Generals for 2 winters, then retired the car from wet salty winter conditions and left summer tires on year round.

I haven't noticed any difference in handling characteristics among the four different brands and sizes below:
Apr1990: Michelin Sport EPX 235/60 R14; still easy to steer. Softer sidewalls or more sidewall angle? I dunno.
Dec1999: BFGoodrich Radial T/A 235/60 R14; still easy to steer.
Oct2006: BFGoodrich Radial T/A 225/60 R14; no change in steering effort.
Jul2022: BFGoodrich Radial T/A 215/60 R14; (back to original size); still easy to steer. (Maybe Armstrong steering is more capable now after 39 years of practice?)