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Building our Lemons/Chumpcar (Page 2/29) |
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DonP
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DEC 15, 11:55 AM
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Our plan was to stay with the 2.8 and the Getrag. Once we got the car home, we had the opportunity to romp on it a bit since we are in an open rural part of the community. The neighbors are used to seeing, uh... different things going down the road. We did have some concerns about the engine. See the comment about no oil showing on the dipstick. So we picked up a second set of front and rear cradles. And shortly after we started, Pick-n-pull had their 50% off sale. So we picked up a second engine and tranny combination. The great thing was that the engine came with a 90 day warranty! That meant that we were going to be running our first race on a warrantied engine.
Having said that, we were reading all the posts here and a 3800SC seemed to be a very good option. We picked up a running driving '93 Park Avenue Ultra with a 3800SC. It was a series 1. Picked it up for $450, pulled the engine and wiring, sold the 1,200 mile tires for $200 and scrapped the rest for $203.45. So for less than $50 we had a SC. That figured into future plans, but we were in a serious time crunch, so it was a back burner project.
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DonP
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DEC 15, 01:40 PM
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The original engine, as we picked up the car. Okay, it's just another engine bay......
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At this point, we were able to break up the many tasks involved in creating a fire-breathing, flame belching race-car of a Fiero. Oops, let's delete the fire references.
Rich has a tubing bender purchased early on in his race-car construction days. He has actually produced a couple instructional videos including building a stock-stub race car as well as the IMCA-modified race car under the C&K Motorsports title. Cage design and construction fell on his shoulders. .

. Robert and I tackled disassembly and clean-up of the suspension, brakes, bodywork and, well, the general clean-up that's necessary for building a track car. .

As I mentioned above, we found another '88 4-cylinder car in the local pick-n-pull. I spent a day dropping the front and rear cradles to have as spares. We also picked up a spare engine and transmission combination out of an '86 GT. Knowing that we were not going to be rebuilding an engine for the series, we wanted to carry a spare in case of catastrophic failure on-track. What better way than to have a complete loaded and ready to go spare cradle. If we had to swap an engine, it's far faster and easier to drop an cradle and replace it. Same goes for the front cradle with a complete suspension. Why not rebuild the engine? Remember, it's a LeMons race. So essentially the car should have a value under $500 less all the safety stuff such as wheels, brakes, cage, seat and like items. Some teams have reportedly rolled in "better" but still used main bearings. But a full rebuild is not within the spirit of the competition.
We did intake and exhaust gaskets and one modification I'll talk about later.[This message has been edited by DonP (edited 07-05-2017).]
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wftb
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DEC 15, 05:38 PM
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there is one small problem with you plans :your car is an 88 , and the 84-87 cradles dont fit that easily .you can adapt an 88 to early cars with a top of strut relocator kit , but nothing is available to go the other way .i am sure you guys could make something up though....but the 88's have the best suspension and brakes .great writeup , keep it coming .
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DonP
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DEC 15, 06:03 PM
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Good catch WFTB. The front and rear cradles were out of an '88. The engine and transmission were out of an '86 GT. What did catch us out was the change in oil pans between the years. It was interesting to go through the wrecking yards and identifying the difference between the '88 suspension and earlier years. Visually seeing what people here were talking about.
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DonP
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DEC 15, 06:51 PM
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So now we have to come up with a "Plan of Attack" (v1.0) I would suggest that anyone trying to build something like this (with so many tasks all of which seem to change almost at random,) find a team member who is painfully organized. I won't say names, but our guy was/is compulsive about lists. We had ever evolving lists of tasks to complete, parts to purchase, stuff to research (most often right here on the forum.) It's really the only way to make it all work, particularly with a very short window to work it all out. Here's a portion of one of the early "to purchase" lists. Part Number Vendor Description Qty. $ ea. Total 40-2124 UB Machine RETAINER CLIPS 6 $1.10 $6.60 60-0115 UB Machine SCUFF PLATES 10 0.80 8.00 60-0100 UB Machine 1/2” HOOD PINS 6 1.75 10.50 999-4506-100-1 UB Machine 1/2” TAPERED BOSS 4 2.50 10.00 999-5751-100 UB Machine SPACER 2` 2.70 5.40 999-5751-318 UB Machine SPACER 1 4.00 4.00 916-66006 Speedway Motors BATTERY BOX 1 17.99 17.99 910-32859 Speedway Motors QUICK RELEASE 1 27.99 27.99 916-32201-48 Speedway Motors STEERING SHAFT 1 21.99 21.99 910-32720 Speedway Motors STEERING BRACKET 2 9.99 19.98 175-0757 Speedway Motors HEIM 2 9.99 19.98 175-0247 Speedway Motors JAM NUT 4 0.99 3.96 910-32234 Speedway Motors STEERING U JOINT 1 49.99 49.99 910-70 RED Speedway Motors WINDOW NET 1 11.98 11.98 916-72005 Speedway Motors MOUNTING BRAKET 1 24.99 24.99 913-64381 Speedway Motors STARTER SWITCH 1 5.99 5.99 913-64380 Speedway Motors TOGGLE SWITCH 3 9.99 19.98 910-64015 Speedway Motors DOUBLE THROW 1 9.99 9.99 910-64501 Speedway Motors DISCONECT SWITCH 1 24.99 24.99 604-50606 Speedway Motors WATER TEMP 1 16.99 16.99 604-50604 Speedway Motors ADJ OIL PRESURE 1 19.99 19.99
You'll notice none of the early stuff was really Fiero specific, but mostly construction related. Stuff like Rodney Dickman's shifter rebuild kits, clutch slave cylinder and ball joints came later in the process. And trust me, there was a ton more to purchase.
Is it really Christmas if you have to pay for it?
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 [This message has been edited by DonP (edited 07-05-2017).]
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FieroMaster88
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DEC 15, 10:11 PM
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Cool project! ------------------
 88 Coupe: 2.0L Turbo 4 Cylinder, W2A, T25 Turbo. 84 Indy #64: Restoration Project!
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DonP
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DEC 16, 09:44 PM
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DonP
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DEC 17, 08:39 PM
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In mid August we really started off on the real work. The roll cage.
The 24 Hours of Lemons guys and the Chumpcar series both require a full roll cage. Both series have very similar requirements. The Lemons rules can be found here. http://www.24hoursoflemons....andrules13.aspx#a346 with the cage specs being in section 3. but the quicky version with diagrams can be found here. http://www.24hoursoflemons....ok_PrintFriendly.pdf The Chumpcar folks have their rules posted here http://www.chumpcar.com/dow...s/chumpcar-rules.pdf with section 3 dealing with the cage.
Specifically, we had the option of using 1.50" x .120 (wall thickness) OR 1.75" x .095 tubing given that our car was under 3000 Lbs. We elected to use 1.50" x .120 tubing. We also elected to go with ERW tubing instead of the more costly DOM tubing. If we had a local supplier for DOM, we might have gone that way, but having to make the trip over the hill into Sacramento just didn't seem reasonable. In addition, most cars we've been involved with in other series such as IMCA are fine with ERW. We knew the basic design that we wanted to follow. We would also exceed the requirements when it came to the door bars. In addition, there's no way we would build a track car without a dash bar. We have debated this last point with a couple drivers who feel a dash bar is a way to get trapped in the case of a severe accident. I'm always left to wonder how they mounted their seats and submarine straps if they are going to be trapped. In addition a dash bar can help prevent the uprights from diamonding in the case of a side impact on the front down-tubes.
SPOILER ALERT!! I'm editing this in 4 1/2 years after the original posting. Check out the last couple images (that I anticipate adding) of this entire thread on page 8. The dash bars were put to the extreme test of a drivers side door impact. Without the dash bars, the young lady driving would likely have had a life changing incident. Instead she just had big time bruising. Use a dash bar if you are building a cage!
Rich headed down to the local steel supplier and picked up the material, three 20 foot sticks of 1.5"x .120" wall tubing . And I dragged out his Mitler Bros. air over hydraulic tubing bender.
Cost for the tubing was $272.31[This message has been edited by DonP (edited 07-07-2017).]
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DonP
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DEC 17, 09:10 PM
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Picking the seat was another task that had to be completed early on. The Main hoop of the roll cage is supposed to have 2" of clearance to the top of the drivers helmet. In a stock seat, I doubt I have 2" of clearance to the headliner even without a helmet.
This is one of those times it's so convenient to have Summit Racing just a mile down the street. We had the chance to do a direct comparison and experience the difference between a 15" wide seat and a 17" wide seat. We chose the 17". Our choice was a Kirkey aluminum seat with a 20 degree layback. It was a 36 series or what Kirkey calls an intermediate seat.
http://www.summitracing.com...r-36300/media/images
We also chose to add the padding, something we have not done with the IMCA Modified. The Modified races for maybe 10-15 minutes at a time. We are planning on up to 2-hour stints.
One of the first uses of the new racing seat. It may not have been mounted in the final position. There might have been a bit of snoring.
 Checking out the steering position
 [This message has been edited by DonP (edited 07-06-2017).]
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kwagner
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DEC 17, 10:51 PM
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Cool, another racer! Glad you found some entertainment from my thread. While we did end up completing the car and competing last year (great story that hopefully I'll finish someday), unfortunately I've had to move several hours east and now the car sits, waiting for someone to breathe new life into it and get it racing again. If you know anyone out east that might be interested in a chumpcar (or maybe someone near you who doesn't mind a long drive?), let me know.
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