$$$$$$$$$$$$$ WOW! More updates on Fiero GT Tail light lens!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (Page 16/115)
MinnGreenGT AUG 03, 04:51 PM
I agree with John...

ALSO - if you put the DOT number on them, and they are not actually DOT approved - one would be opening themselves up to fraud charges, I imagine.

Off Road Use Only... the only way to go!
Raydar AUG 03, 07:09 PM

quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
...
Off Road Use Only... the only way to go!



I agree completely. Mine will be a good two feet off the road.
railshot AUG 03, 07:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


Did Ogre put you up to this? All kidding aside, I do agree that DOT approval is a requirement for car manufacturers and the like to have something certified street legal. That being said, as long as when these tail lights are sold, they are marketed as "off road use only" this covers the manufacturer. This places the responsibility on the purchaser. 99% of us are absolutely fine with that. I know I am!

Walk into any part store and look around at the lights, mirrors, fins, trim, scoops ect ect. Most of them will clearly say on the package "For off road use only".

The way I look at it, if I install these tail lights on my car, I can not fathom being pulled over just for the sole intention for a cop to poke around and try to find a DOT number LOL!

As for not being as good as the original ones from GM, I do not see how you can say that before these are even for sale, or you have inspected them. I know my OEM lenses I have in storage, are quite wavy. If you look down the length of them, they are far from perfect. The lettering is also not perfect around the edges and such. These are both issues that have been addressed with the new lenses. Sure GM had the resources, but they pumped out 10's of thousands from multiple molds. Every attention to detail is being addressed with the new ones and they are being produced in an ultra low batch compared to the originals.




I have stayed out of this for personal reasons (I was going to do this myself, but luckily Kgoodyear had stepped up to the plate before I could even consider it), so this is my opinion only!
Have any of you exceeded the speed limit at any time?
How about tinted windows.... lol, I just removed my tinted rear window tint cause it was crap..... see my latest post...…. ugly Fiero!
Do you have a "non factory" radio in your car..... ok, I am stretching it a bit with the radio thing.

We all purchase what we "need" for our Fiero's when it is available.
LED, most likely non DOT approved.
Halogen headlights from China, most likely not DOT approved.

I guess what I am getting to is that we all make our own choices, and I for one would rather have a clean, non delaminated lens on the back than a scratched, UV destroyed one.

I for one, would rather have the person behind me see my brake lights and turn signals, not that mine are that bad, but c'mon guys, we are all adults and make choices every minute of every day.

I have to give a huge (and I mean HUGE) shout out to Kgoodyear for even attempting this!
I don't think anyone here has any idea as to what a huge emotional and financial investment this is for him.

I should probably post this in "Off Topic", but I for one am tired of the DOT, etc. trying to tell me what I can and cannot do.
When I finish my 50cal Kentucky long, and the 50cal Hawken, for sure I will not be on a list or have anybody even interested in what I have, and so be it with the DOT!
Yes, I like my black powder guns and can make balls from all the old "DOT" approved batteries I have saved. LOL

I for one am all for this project, and will gladly be pulled over for not having the DOT numbers on my lenses!
42 years of injection molding experience in my back pocket, working with OEM manufacturers (lol, I shut down the Corvette assembly line in 1989 for the rear window mounts due to material issues) and what Kgoodyear is doing is way above and beyond what was expected back then.

Better material, better decoration, etc.

Take a breath and judge the final product when you see it in all it's final glory.

In the end, it is up to you to chose to buy, or suffer with your lenses.

How simple is that?
Jonathan Tate AUG 03, 07:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

As for not being as good as the original ones from GM, I do not see how you can say that before these are even for sale, or you have inspected them [/.QUOTE]

in one sentence you make this statement and the end of the paragraph you make this statement when you have not seen the new
ones either, as a matter of fact no one has.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnWPB:
Every attention to detail is being addressed with the new ones and they are being produced in an ultra low batch compared to the originals.
[/.QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnWPB:
I know my OEM lenses I have in storage, are quite wavy. If you look down the length of them, they are far from perfect. The lettering is also not perfect around the edges and such. These are both issues that have been addressed with the new lenses. Sure GM had the resources, but they pumped out 10's of thousands from multiple molds




Your lenses where in storage in the black gt that was at Kings Point sitting out in the sun for years and years he only put them inside his apartment when he listed the 2 fieros and parts. Ask the person that gave them to you.
kgoodyear AUG 03, 07:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by Jonathan Tate:
Your lenses where in storage in the black gt that was at Kings Point sitting out in the sun for years and years he only put them inside his apartment when he listed the 2 fieros and parts. Ask the person that gave them to you.



I am not sure what this is about but it stinks of red hearing. Let's start there.

------------------
Goody

The beauty of a solution lies in its simplicity

railshot AUG 03, 08:18 PM

quote
Originally posted by kgoodyear:


I am not sure what this is about but it stinks of red hearing. Let's start there.




Oh geeze, hang in the Kgoodyear!
Are we all expecting NOS lenses from the original DOT approved molds?
Seriously, I do not think they are available anymore.
Originally I tried to track them down through my many contacts, and I came up blank.
I would have commissioned them to mold some if I found them, seriously!

Like I said earlier, we are all adults and make choices daily as to what we will or will not purchase or do.

I for one, love the fact someone has hung themselves out on a limb with the investment of both financial and emotional losses ahead.

Dave

PS:
if you really want to discuss this, please email me at railshot@hotmail.com.
Several people have tried this, and I have spoken in person with some now lost Fiero fans and product developers, that have said that they would not even consider it because of the negatives.
Me personally, I don't care what others say, just offer a product and go from there.
Really guys, we all love our cars, so let's let the cards fall where they fall.

I for one appreciate all that you have done, and are doing to make our cars just a little bit better!
GfierOT87 AUG 05, 01:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by railshot:


I for one appreciate all that you have done, and are doing to make our cars just a little bit better!





I also say the same, I appreciate everything they have done and are doing to make our cars a little better. Only one thing, of course, it still would not change what was said before. My question kgoodyear. The taillight clear with decoration (the oem version) also does not comply with DOT ?? Just to know.

[This message has been edited by GfierOT87 (edited 08-05-2018).]

kgoodyear AUG 05, 02:37 PM

quote
Originally posted by GfierOT87:
I also say the same, I appreciate everything they have done and are doing to make our cars a little better. Only one thing, of course, it still would not change what was said before. My question kgoodyear. The taillight clear with decoration (the oem version) also does not comply with DOT ?? Just to know.



Whether or not the clear lens meets DOT specifications is unknown and irrelevant as the lenses are designed for off road use only.

Our main goal remains making a high quality lens and decoration for a price affordable to the typical Frugal Fiero Fan.

------------------
Goody

The beauty of a solution lies in its simplicity

railshot AUG 05, 07:28 PM
Yup, me again...…
The DOT does not approve any individual part on any car other than headlights and bulbs according to my research so far.....

Being DOT "compliant" would be the key to all of this.

Actually the DOT has warned several vendors in the past about using the words "DOT approved".

The SAE (Society Of Automotive Engineers) sets the standards for testing, not the DOT.
If anyone is seriously interested in what it is that SAE sets as a standard for lighting testing, I can post it here, or can email you individually the 600+ page pdf document.
LOL.....
Please don't make me post it here!

Headlights and bulbs are the only things I have found that actually require DOT "approval", and I have been looking at this for a few years now.

The color of the lenses for turn and brake lights is "regulated", but not the "housing" that covers them such as the lenses being talked about here.
We already have the inner lenses for turn and brake, and as long as these lenses are optically clear, I will use them (once I save my meager retirement earnings up for a set. heheheh

The clear ones should be fine, but the tinted ones may not have the transparency to be used on the road, and may draw undo attention, but that is your choice as these are all being marketed for off road use only...…

I have no bone in this discussion either way, but because I was going to do this, I have a lot of data.
If you can show me different, please do so, and I will stand corrected!

------------------
There's one in every crowd, and usually it's me.
1988 Solid roof GT!

Jonathan Tate AUG 06, 06:23 AM

quote
Originally posted by railshot:

Yup, me again...…
The DOT does not approve any individual part on any car other than headlights and bulbs according to my research so far.....

Being DOT "compliant" would be the key to all of this.

Actually the DOT has warned several vendors in the past about using the words "DOT approved".

The SAE (Society Of Automotive Engineers) sets the standards for testing, not the DOT.
If anyone is seriously interested in what it is that SAE sets as a standard for lighting testing, I can post it here, or can email you individually the 600+ page pdf document.
LOL.....
Please don't make me post it here!

Headlights and bulbs are the only things I have found that actually require DOT "approval", and I have been looking at this for a few years now.

The color of the lenses for turn and brake lights is "regulated", but not the "housing" that covers them such as the lenses being talked about here.
We already have the inner lenses for turn and brake, and as long as these lenses are optically clear, I will use them (once I save my meager retirement earnings up for a set. heheheh

The clear ones should be fine, but the tinted ones may not have the transparency to be used on the road, and may draw undo attention, but that is your choice as these are all being marketed for off road use only...…

I have no bone in this discussion either way, but because I was going to do this, I have a lot of data.
If you can show me different, please do so, and I will stand corrected!



SAE standards are often referred to as "recommended practices," which provide a basis for a particular function. The SAE standard can create a common method and performance level for a specific lighting function. SAE standards may be referenced and become part of the law in some cases, which also causes confusion.



The DOT or Federal Regulations will preempt or take precedence over the state regulations when both regulations exist.


The DOT

The DOT is, obviously, the Department of Transportation. Unlike the SAE, The Federal Department of Transportation is a governmental agency with legislative powers (they can make laws which will result in you getting a ticket when you don’t follow them). In order to legally manufacture and sell automotive accessories for use on public roads a company must have DOT approval and must conspicuously label their products as such. With regard to head and tail lights in particular, the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations (FMVSSR for short) contains the following directive:

Standard No. 108 - Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment - Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Buses, Trailers, (except pole trailers and trailer converter dollies), and Motorcycles (Effective 1-1-68 for vehicles 2,032 mrn (80 or more inches) in width and Effective 1-1-69 for all other vehicles) This standard specifies requirements for original and replacement lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment. Its purpose is to reduce traffic crashes and deaths and injuries resulting from traffic crashes, by providing adequate illumination of the roadway, and by enhancing the conspicuity of motor vehicles on the public roads so that their presence is perceived and their signals understood, both in daylight and in darkness or other conditions of reduced visibility.

All of which is to say that without meeting these qualifications your Altezza light may not only be unsafe for use but it will surely garner you a ticket from an ornery cop or fail you on inspection. Please note that many sellers will, incorrectly, list their items as being SAE/DOT approved without this actually being the case. Furthermore, many will not even know what SAE or DOT approval is. Before purchasing any aftermarket lighting or performance product it’s important that you ask the manufacturer to provide you with a statement that the product being sold is DOT approved. If they cannot do so at least you know that your purchase will not be street legal (which is fine for most folks) and that it may have been engineered without conforming to the rigorous standards imposed by the SAE.


The law is clear
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/p...-vol5-sec571-108.xml


To help you understand it here is a link to clear definitions of every single section of this law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.108


Once more and to be clear:

It is illegal to use tail light lenses on public roads that are not DOT approved. You can be cited by a law enforcement officer and in some states you MUST correct the issue before operating the vehicle on public roads or you may have your registration revoked often called a "fix-it" ticket .

The DOT number is NOT just a number it is a certification that the lens has met the legal requirements of The United States Department of Transportation, each number that is listed in parenthesis on the light clearly relates to each of the specific certifications as required by Federal law.

I will still be buying a set of these lenses when they are available even though they are for off road use only.

[This message has been edited by Jonathan Tate (edited 08-06-2018).]