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| 2017 Corvette Mid Engine Car and Driver (Page 10/12) |
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dobey
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OCT 06, 11:33 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by gtjeff:
Almost every Corvette mid-engine concept car has had a transversly mounted engine. Can you name even one of the Vette ME concepts that was longitudinal? The two I have pictures of in this tread are both transverse.
Yes, I drove a Fiero in the snow for 10 years and have frame rust to show for doing it.
A 88 Fiero GT would be looked at for packaging purposes, you clearly didn't read what I wrote. Where do you think the idea for the Vette C5 (1997) space frame came from?
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CERV II, Astro II, XP-819, and 2012 Corvette Daytona are all longitudinal. There have been plenty of longitudinal mid/rear engine concepts from GM over the years.
And there have been plenty of cars in the world that had space frame designs, other than the Fiero. Where do you think GM got the idea for the Fiero frame from? The Fiero was about half a century late to the space frame concept. The Fiero was just a drop in the bucket in terms of where GM's engineers woul dhave pulled ideas for the Vette chassis. I wouldn't put too much hope in connecting a new Vette, to the Fiero.
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gtjeff
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OCT 06, 11:56 PM
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Fiero was the first PRODUCTION space frame car. The Daytona is a race car, not a concept car, the Astro II is not a vette concept car. The XP-819 is rear engine. So you have only 1 longitudinal Corvette concept in your list. http://www.corvettes.nl/gm_prototypes/xp819/
| quote | Originally posted by dobey:
CERV II, Astro II, XP-819, and 2012 Corvette Daytona are all longitudinal. There have been plenty of longitudinal mid/rear engine concepts from GM over the years.
And there have been plenty of cars in the world that had space frame designs, other than the Fiero. Where do you think GM got the idea for the Fiero frame from? The Fiero was about half a century late to the space frame concept. The Fiero was just a drop in the bucket in terms of where GM's engineers woul dhave pulled ideas for the Vette chassis. I wouldn't put too much hope in connecting a new Vette, to the Fiero. |
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[This message has been edited by gtjeff (edited 10-07-2014).]
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thesameguy
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OCT 07, 02:04 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by gtjeff:
Almost every Corvette mid-engine concept car has had a transversly mounted engine
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Nothing to do with anything, for all the reasons hyperv6 stated -
| quote | Originally posted by hyperv6:
handling would be more twitchy
The weight also would be more centered on the car so less polar inertia movement.
As for the trans axle a longitudinal is much stronger as with a transverse the chain is a weak spot.
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Also, add in lateral torque management, which is inherently difficult in a transverse transmission with necessary unequal length driveshafts.
You can't put modern levels of power through a transverse drivetrain and get anything worthwhile.
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hyperv6
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OCT 07, 07:36 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by gtjeff:
Almost every Corvette mid-engine concept car has had a transversly mounted engine. Can you name even one of the Vette ME concepts that was longitudinal? The two I have pictures of in this tread are both transverse.
Yes, I drove a Fiero in the snow for 10 years and have frame rust to show for doing it.
A 88 Fiero GT would be looked at for packaging purposes, you clearly didn't read what I wrote. Where do you think the idea for the Vette C5 (1997) space frame came from?
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Sorry but like stated above there are many cases of the longitudinal set up at Chevy. GM in the 70-80-90 were looking at transverse mostly because at the time GM had declared all cars be FWD but the Corvette even the F body replacement at one point in the GM 80. They were looking to make due with what they had available. Also the odds of getting the car built under old GM were slim to nothing. Back them it was just an attention getter.
The space frame was not really a totally new concepts and even the old C3 Vette has a cage of sorts around the passengers. The C3 had more steel in it than a Chevette. The later Vette went to the sheet molded construction and that is why they went to more of a space frame set up as the body panels today are hung much different than in the past. Today they are bolt on and in the past they were glued and bonded together with often low quality results.
The reality is the new car if it comes about will share very little with the Fiero other than to say it is mid engine. As for wheel base look at geometry and how it works in a mid engine car. Also look at the cars on the market and how much they have added to the wheel base over the years. Not only does it improve handling but packaging of more interior and in this case likely hybrid systems that will be included.
To be honest there is no reason they could not use the transaxle they have now with the engine bolted to it.
Just let the Fiero be the Fiero as it has its own merits and let the Vette be the Vette. Both are great cars and we should be proud of both of them.
The closest the Vette came to the Fiero was when they played with the idea of two transverse 2.8 V6 engines in a Citation Mule. They were worried at the time the V8 may not be around so they installed a second engine in the back much like a Fiero. A private collector owns the car today. It had beaten a unsuspecting Porsche around Detroit in one magazine story years ago.[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 10-07-2014).]
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2.5
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OCT 07, 08:40 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
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If vette loses the long hood it wont look like a vette anymore.[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-07-2014).]
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Imnuts
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OCT 07, 09:54 AM
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Off the subject but still about the Corvette, has anyone else looked at a 2014 and noticed how bad the paint job is, the orange pill is about the worst I’ve ever seen. I was at the corvette museum and factory and I did not see one that had a decent paint job. I talk to a corvette owner that was concentering getting one but only if he could order it in primer only so he could have it painted professionally. I would not want to spend 70k+ on a car with paint like they are putting out. I’d almost be embraced I had bought it.
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Imnuts
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OCT 07, 09:56 AM
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I know orange peel not pill 
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dobey
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OCT 07, 09:56 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by gtjeff:
Fiero was the first PRODUCTION space frame car. The Daytona is a race car, not a concept car, the Astro II is not a vette concept car. The XP-819 is rear engine. So you have only 1 longitudinal Corvette concept in your list. http://www.corvettes.nl/gm_prototypes/xp819/
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Actually, Astro II is a Vette concept. http://www.corvettes.nl/gm_prototypes/
Fiero was the first production car from GM perhaps. The Corvette is getting its design from the track cars these days, and not a 30 year old short-lived car that GM sees as a blemish on its face. The C7 chassis is built on what they learned from the C6R, the 2015 Z06 is based on what they learned from the C7R. If the new hypercar Vette Zora is real, it's not going to be built based on what they did with the Fiero. It will be based on what they did with the Vette race cars, including the Daytona.
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hyperv6
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OCT 07, 08:38 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 2.5:
If vette loses the long hood it wont look like a vette anymore.
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I think you miss the point that while remaining a Chevy the Corvette will for a few early years is looking at maybe doing two cars. The Corvette Stingray and the Corvette Zora. Chevy is looking to do both cars for a few years and then rotate over to the mid engine and do a cheaper version along with the high end car?
I see it as the best of both worlds as like Ferrari offers front and mid engine cars. In the Chevy case both will perform nearly as well but for less than a Ferrari price.
What people have to grasp is GM need to expand their product and not relay on building the same car for 40 plus years. I know many people are stuck in the past and that is fine but when the entire market is moving ahead you have to make some move to move ahead also or you get left behind. Just look at what happened at Cadillac when they failed to transition to where the market went. Today they are playing catch up.
The new car would redefine what a Corvette is to look like. Just as the C2 did after the C1 and the C3 did after the C2.
Besides this car is not a good representation of what we will see from what I have heard. A little better idea is in Motor Trend. Keep in mind the Daytona Prototypes in IMSA came out when the original Mid Engine C7 was expected. It looks as if GM continued the program in racing and shelved the C7 mid engine till the new money arrived and worked on it as the C8 while the C7 front engine bought them some time to finish it right. I suspect the DP cars hinted at some of the original body work but since more time has past it could change more to a different look.
The one thing even if it is mid engine no one will mistake it for anything but a Corvette as it will have enough heritage to tell you what it is.[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 10-07-2014).]
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dobey
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OCT 07, 11:13 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by hyperv6:
The one thing even if it is mid engine no one will mistake it for anything but a Corvette as it will have enough heritage to tell you what it is.
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I wouldn't be so sure. Even with all the heritage of the Vette, and having been around all the generations of the Vette my entire life, there are still times when I see a C7 and do a double-take because first glance it looked like a Ferrari.
That's not necessarily a bad thing though.
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