You still argued that the guy was sane, that he was not in not only my opinion but that of others in the thread.
I never tried to link the guys education to him being nuts, never I simply pointed out that his education gave him a medical license. That he was nuts, nothing to do with his education.
You as usual read what you want and use it to propagate what you think in your mind is what was said. Didn’t matter if it was right or not, in your mind it was.
Subprime woes to hit student loans The subprime crisis is expected to make it harder for students to get low-interest loans, according to a new report.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Students relying on college loans will soon feel the pinch from the subprime mortgage crisis, according to a report by financial aid guide FinAid this week.
Not only will subprime borrowers have more trouble securing a student loan, but all student borrowers will be subject to stricter lending practices, according to the financial aid adviser.
Roadblocks could include higher credit scores needed to secure student loans as well as higher interest rates on those loans.
Student lender Sallie Mae (SLM, Fortune 500) also wrote in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission last week that it plans to be more selective in granting loans.
Along with mortgages, student loans and other asset-backed securities started to feel the subprime market's effects as early as last summer, as spooked investors reacted to increasing default and foreclosure rates, FinAid reported.
On top of that, lender subsidy cuts as a part of the College Cost Reduction and Access Act passed last year have made federal and private education loans less profitable for lenders, who will likely pass the burden on to borrowers, according to the report.
Slow spending to slam retailers Industry forecast expects 2008 sales growth to be weakest in 6 years as economic slowdown pinches consumers.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Retail sales in 2008 will suffer their weakest pace of growth in six years as Americans struggle with rising unemployment, worsening housing and credit market conditions and higher food and energy costs in the months ahead., according to an industry forecast released Monday.
The National Retail Federation (NRF), in its annual economic outlook, said it expects full-year sales this year to grow 3.5 percent, the slowest increase since 2002 when sales grew 3 percent.
HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill. (AP) -- Sears Holdings Corp. said Monday it expects fourth-quarter earnings below analysts estimates on lower same-store sales as well as more promotions and markdowns.
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"The slowest increase since 2002 when sales grew 3 percent."
Slow... kind of like the idiots who read reports and thing slow means good nor grasp the idea that 2008 appears to have all the makings for the slowest growth since 2002... or worse.
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Originally posted by Phranc: So how exactly is an increase ie: "growth" bad?
tumor?
lol - anyways - it is a tough thing grasp. how much was invested to create the growth? this is the "chistmas" growth, right? which implies extra hours worked by people, sales & giva-aways, and promotions. is the growth enough to cover expenditures to create it.
but, this is just one possibility. I find them articles to be inaccurate & misleading - from both sides.
Originally posted by Red88FF: Heh, you call others idiots because YOU don't know what growth is then get pissy because of a cheese comment. heh.
While that little comment is off color and immature I can assure you that it was not considered in my reply to you. If you cant see that economic "growth" appears to be moving backward (falling @ or below the growth levels of 2002 ) instead of forward or even maintaining the levels of growth in 2007 then it is apparent you dont understand the gravity of what the report is indicating.
Originally posted by 84Bill: While that little comment is off color and immature I can assure you that it was not considered in my reply to you. If you cant see that economic "growth" appears to be moving backward (falling @ or below the growth levels of 2002 ) instead of forward or even maintaining the levels of growth in 2007 then it is apparent you dont understand the gravity of what the report is indicating.
Growth is not moving backward, growth means forward motion. I absolutely understand that there is not as MUCH growth. This however more only illustrates a difference between "booming" and "good" indicators for the economy. I do not think anybody here is arguing that things have not slowed, the growth that is, the difference is some think that means backwards and it does not, it IS slower expansion, "espansion" being the key word here. Now if growth in fact did stop, it would be called stagnant.
I am finding it hard to understand why you of all people are letting yourself be manipulated in this way by the wording of all these doom and gloom reports.
Originally posted by Red88FF: I am finding it hard to understand why you of all people are letting yourself be manipulated in this way by the wording of all these doom and gloom reports.
I understand that it is dificult to grasp what an "indicator" is but the basic explanation is they are forward views into growth.
If "normal" growth were to continue then the reports need to show growth equal to or greater than expected for the economy to be making any real headway. Each year business crop up, people who work get raises and buy things so growth has a fairly predictable rate. When that growth falls under that prediction then there is a "potential" problem which facilitates further problems in the market such as people selling their stocks to maintain spending. When companies lose value thru income of the sales of their stocks & combine that a drop in product sales they dont have the money or "stock leverage" to borrow against to self sustain and then must lay off. The reason they lay off is to make their books look like they are in the black which is "true" but is not an accurate "indication" of their economic health and purchasing power.
So when the indicators show growth it doesnt mean that the growth has any real meaning if it falls short of the mark. Market speculators have already indicated that due to the "reduced growth" there appears to be a problem. Combine that with massive infusions of money into the market and interest rate cuts to keep it from crashing is further proof that the economy is in a weakened condition.
The doom and gloom as everyone puts it is a warning. Its very similar to "red skies morning, sailors warning." Prepare for the storm or just say screw it and press on as if nothing will happen and the good ship U.S.economy rounds the horn.
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Mortgage lending forecast to drop Previously owned home sales are also expected to fall as banks rack up billions in losses, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. mortgage lending will fall by more than 16 percent this year, dragged down by a worsening economy and a slumping mortgage market, an industry group predicted Monday.
The Mortgage Bankers Association forecast that U.S. mortgage lending will fall 16.2 percent this year to $1.96 trillion, down from a projected $2.34 trillion last year.
The group also said sales of previously owned U.S. homes will drop by about 13 percent, while median prices fall about 2 percent. New mortgage lending would continue its downward descent in 2009, the group predicted, but home sales and prices would steady a bit.
NEW YORK (AP) -- Friedman Billings Ramsey Group's mortgage lending arm, First NLC Financial Services, will file for bankruptcy protection and plans to liquidate because demand among investors for home loans has vanished, the investment bank said Monday.
First NLC Financial Services, which FBR bought in February 2005 for $100.8 million, plans to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. FBR's plan to sell the business to Sun Capital Partners has fallen through, and the company said it does not expect to recoup its remaining $12 million investment in the unit's recapitalization for that sale.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A household name among mutual funds, Fidelity Investments' Magellan Fund, is opening to investors again after a decade, the Boston-based company announced Monday.
The fund, made famous by investing guru Peter Lynch, was closed in 1997 to prevent the fund from becoming unwieldy to manage. It reached a peak of $102 billion in assets in 2000, and has dwindled to about $45 billion.
Magellan, launched almost 45 years ago, is invested mostly in common stocks of domestic and foreign companies. In the past 12 months, the fund posted its highest return since 2003, up 19 percent versus a 5.5 percent gain for the Standard & Poor's 500 index.
Fidelity (FNF, Fortune 500) said the Baby Boom generation is now chipping away at the funds' assets, 85 percent of which are for set aside for retirement.
"Millions of Americans have relied upon the fund to help them reach financial goals such as saving for retirement, college, or buying a new home," said Walter C. Donovan, president of the equity division in Fidelity's Management & Research unit, in a statement. "We believe that the time is right to make Magellan available to a new generation of investors."
Harry W. Lange has managed Magellan Fund since October 2005.
Magellan Fund aims for capital appreciation by investing mostly in common stocks of domestic and foreign companies.
Fidelity has some $1.5 trillion in assets under management.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A household name among mutual funds, Fidelity Investments' Magellan Fund, is opening to investors again after a decade, the Boston-based company announced Monday.
The fund, made famous by investing guru Peter Lynch, was closed in 1997 to prevent the fund from becoming unwieldy to manage. It reached a peak of $102 billion in assets in 2000, and has dwindled to about $45 billion.
Magellan, launched almost 45 years ago, is invested mostly in common stocks of domestic and foreign companies. In the past 12 months, the fund posted its highest return since 2003, up 19 percent versus a 5.5 percent gain for the Standard & Poor's 500 index.
Fidelity (FNF, Fortune 500) said the Baby Boom generation is now chipping away at the funds' assets, 85 percent of which are for set aside for retirement.
"Millions of Americans have relied upon the fund to help them reach financial goals such as saving for retirement, college, or buying a new home," said Walter C. Donovan, president of the equity division in Fidelity's Management & Research unit, in a statement. "We believe that the time is right to make Magellan available to a new generation of investors."
Harry W. Lange has managed Magellan Fund since October 2005.
Magellan Fund aims for capital appreciation by investing mostly in common stocks of domestic and foreign companies.
Fidelity has some $1.5 trillion in assets under management.
Is this a bad thing? Assets are going down as long time investors retire and withdraw their assets. That's to be expected regardless of the economic climate. Looks like a good idea to allow new investors to make sure the fund continues to grow - just as closing it when it was larger was the right decision at that time.
If there's a harbinger of doom in there, I'm not seeing it.
"In the past 12 months, the fund posted its highest return since 2003, up 19 percent versus a 5.5 percent gain for the Standard & Poor's 500 index" Sounds good to me. I'll probably divert some of my investments over there. Thanks for the tip.
No, but everything you've been posting has apparently been to support your opinion that the economy is spiraling in like a lawn dart. That's why I asked.
Originally posted by Formula88: No, but everything you've been posting has apparently been to support your opinion that the economy is spiraling in like a lawn dart. That's why I asked.
Okay, but it doesn't mean the economy isn't spiraling in like a lawn dart. All things considered their glass is half empty... So by all means fill it.
Bernanke and Pelosi discuss economy The Fed chief meets with the House Speaker to flesh out Congress's role in revitalizing the economy.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Fed chief Ben Bernanke met Monday to discuss how Congress might act to stimulate the slowing economy.
Pelosi, D-Calif., is taking the lead as Democrats controlling Congress have reached out to the White House to work toward an economic stimulus measure that could get enacted relatively quickly.
Now do you believe the economy is forked?
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Come on Bill......the economy is just slowing. Its still growing a little. The fact that inflation is growing faster and nullifying any growth is really of little relevance right?
According to what I see here the banks are pretty much broke and going bankrupt and the people's spending has been reduced.
On the bright side all the service sectors are making great money. Utilities, industrials, energy, techs, are all up.
Telecom is up too and it looks like it is actually the 4Q winner..
Odd.....
Sprint to lay off thousands: Report The wireless provider re-organizes under the leadership of new CEO Dan Hesse.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Sprint Nextel plans to eliminate several thousand jobs as its new CEO Dan Hesse tries to cut costs and increase efficiency, according to a report from The Wall Street Journal.
The job cuts appear to be the result of the wireless provider's poor operational efficiency, and not the result of the slow economy, says the report.
Hesse and other Sprint executives are also reportedly examining a plan to consolidate Sprint's (S, Fortune 500) headquarters in Overland Park, Kansas, the company's headquarters before it purchased Nextel Communications in 2005.
The company's current headquarters in Reston, Virginia, employs about 4,500. Sprint has an operational presence of 13,000 employees in Kansas. If the headquarters is consolidated in Kansas, only a few hundred managers and other top-level employees may be moved, says the Journal. To top of page
I know myself and others have shown steady if not outstanding growth.. but Bill and you are determined to show we're all screwed.
So.. to put this to bed.. yup.. you're right.. We're 3 mo's out of a recession that only increased taxes can cure. I'm sure the Ron Paul guys have your back.. they also think we live within our borders.
Thanks guys.. was about to buy a house.. now i'll just down size my apt and start looking for gov't cheese.
DAMMIT MR BITTER AND BILL! I was going to sell Uanna my house. You scared him out of buying it and screwed up my plans to buy a larger, more expensive house.
Hmmmmm, I was joking, but look how close to reality this really is on what negative viewpoints can do to an economy.
You're welcome... No no... have at it Uaana. Buy that house now.
The reason you wont is because YOU KNOW now is not the time to buy. Anyone with half a brain would wait till the market bottoms out to get the best price possible so stop acting like a retard.
Mortgage lending forecast to drop Previously owned home sales are also expected to fall as banks rack up billions in losses, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. mortgage lending will fall by more than 16 percent this year, dragged down by a worsening economy and a slumping mortgage market, an industry group predicted Monday.
The Mortgage Bankers Association forecast that U.S. mortgage lending will fall 16.2 percent this year to $1.96 trillion, down from a projected $2.34 trillion last year.
The group also said sales of previously owned U.S. homes will drop by about 13 percent, while median prices fall about 2 percent. New mortgage lending would continue its downward descent in 2009, the group predicted, but home sales and prices would steady a bit.
Just hang on space... just a little longer... You'll get what you deserve, I promise.
From where I'm at.. It looks like a pretty sweet deal.. the property has devalued to 114k.. I can get in at a 6% locked rate. Possibly lower.. but I have shitty credit. Or should I wait for double digit inflation rates that are sure to come following a Dem presidency?
Hell sounds like I'll be in the green.. free food, and a low home loan!! WHoo Hoo.
Odd thing is.. you and 84 are on opposite sides and dont even realize it.
From where I'm at.. It looks like a pretty sweet deal.. the property has devalued to 114k.. I can get in at a 6% locked rate. Possibly lower.. but I have shitty credit.
It will devalue more but the problem will be the interest rate which is directly linked to your credit and the market. So you have a decision to make. Wait and get that place cheaper price but higher interest (which you can refi later on for a lower rate) or but it now and get an over priced house which will continue to devalue over the next 10 years or so.
quote
Or should I wait for double digit inflation rates that are sure to come following a Dem presidency?
Thats up to you. I know what I would do but that doesnt mean jack squat to anyone but me and the cheese manufacturers.
Thats up to you. I know what I would do but that doesnt mean jack squat to anyone but me and the cheese manufacturers.
Thanks Bill.. I'll take it under consideration Yes I'm looking for the balance / tip point in the market.. somehow don't see that 10 + yrs down the road.
I know the nominal value of the place i'm looking at is 130. thinking of throwing 10k in refurb.. but you could be right..we could elect Clinton or Obama.. and I'll have to sit in a nice place for another couple yrs and dump when the market rebounds..
Ohh. sorry you don't think past the 72hr mark.. sorry some of us invest for long term. If you can't read markets..oh wait.. never mind. you are just worried about your next hand out.
I know the nominal value of the place i'm looking at is 130. thinking of throwing 10k in refurb.. but you could be right..we could elect Clinton or Obama.. and I'll have to sit in a nice place for another couple yrs and dump when the market rebounds..
.
You never know, Not always smart to try and time it at the bottom, you might end up with nothing. I spec built a home in Bellingham, and for those that don't know, Bellingham is called the little Tijuana of Canada, well it used to be anyways, but it was hit harder than most places for this reason. Back in the early 90's I took a real beating up there while algore and clitton scared the hell out of everybody with there pessimistic doom and gloom and bush is bad crapola but soon after the huffing and puffing was over people realized things were actually still pretty good and housing prices soon skyrocketed! of course I had been forced out by then, not physically, I had sold though.
Does anybody know of a good source for finding areas that have been the hardest hit over the years? And no I do not mean slummy X industrial areas full of dead beats and crime. I smell money!
For example I found out about a place from one of my retired hovercraft buddies in SD two years ago where you could by a nice little house with a two car garage in a small town for around 8 grand for a starting price and real nice ones for 15 to 20. The prices have pretty much tripled there since I first looked. Still thinking about a trip over there to have a look and buy a place or two. Dam cold winters though. In any event there is money to be made and when houses aren't selling the rental market kicks ass. Things are starting to sell faster here again, prices have lowered a bit of course.
Originally posted by Super Hero Uaana: Ohh. sorry you don't think past the 72hr mark.. sorry some of us invest for long term. If you can't read markets..oh wait.. never mind. you are just worried about your next hand out.
Yeah thats it Uaana, so when are you going to graduate from grade school name calling to something resembling adulthood?
Wall Street facing rough session Citigroup slashes dividend, reports $10 billion loss and $18 billion writedown in major restructuring plan; futures lower.
LONDON (CNNMoney.com) -- Wall Street braced for a tough day after Citigroup Inc. reported a nearly $10 billion loss in fourth-quarter earnings.
The financial giant Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) reported an $18 billion writedown as part of a restructuring plan and slashed its dividend.
Panel: Increase gas tax to fix roadways WASHINGTON (AP) -- A special commission is urging the government to raise federal gasoline taxes by as much as 40 cents per gallon over five years as part of a sweeping overhaul designed to ease traffic congestion and repair the nation's decaying bridges and roads.
The December Retail Sales report is due out today...
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RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- President Bush urged OPEC nations on Tuesday to put more oil on the world market and warned that soaring prices could cause an economic slowdown in the United States.
"High energy prices can damage consuming economies," the president told a small group of reporters traveling with him in the Mideast.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- It's not too late for investors to get in on the oil boom in 2008, analysts say, even with the near 30 percent runup in oil company stocks last year.
From companies that pull oil out of the ground, to the ones that turn it into gasoline, to the specialists that keep the wells flowing, the oil sector breaks down into lots of categories. And some categories are expected to do much better than others in 2008.
Experts generally expect nearly all oil stock sectors to do well in 2008 - although not as well as in 2007.
Countrywide borrowers: Fear not Why the Bank of America acquisition could be good for borrowers who have their mortgages serviced by Countrywide.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you're struggling with a mortgage you got from Countrywide Financial, you may be wondering what Bank of America's takeover plan bodes for your loan.
The short answer is that you could come out ahead.
"I think it's positive for the borrowers," Bruce Marks, chief executive of Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America said. "There are millions of home owners with unaffordable mortgages. The deal will allow Bank of America to restructure loans to what homeowners can afford."
Marks suggested that Bank of America will be able to help current Countrywide customers where Countrywide can't, because it doesn't give risky subprime mortgages, so it plans to convert them into prime loans.
When the housing crash began, Countrywide found that an increasing number of customers with subprime loans were delinquent with their mortgage payments or facing foreclosure. Bank of America insulated itself from the housing crisis by not participating in subprime mortgages.
According to a Bank of America press release, the company does not plan to originate any subprime loans after the merger is completed.
Citigroup suffers $9.8 billion loss Financial giant takes $18.1 billion writedown and slashes dividend, while getting a $12.5 billion capital infusion
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Citigroup Inc. delivered some of the worst quarterly results in its history Tuesday, reporting a nearly $10 billion loss that was much worse than Wall Street had anticipated.
The financial giant also announced a writedown of $18.1 billion related to soured mortgage investments and a 41 percent cut to its dividend. At the same time, it said it was receiving a $12.5 billion infusion from investors in Kuwait, Singapore and the state of New Jersey.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Year-end holiday shopping hit the skids in December after cash-strapped consumers curtailed their spending, forcing sales at U.S. chain stores to drop worse than expected, according to a government report Tuesday.
The U.S. Commerce Department said total sales fell 0.4 percent last month, up from a revised 1 percent gain in November. November sales were originally reported to have risen 1.2 percent
Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had forecast retail sales to be unchanged for the month.
Stripping out volatile auto sales, retail sales also fell a weaker-than-expected 0.4 percent versus a revised gain of 1.7 percent in November. November sales were originally reported to have increased 1.8 percent.
Economists, on average, had forecast an ex-auto decline of 0.1 percent for the month.
The government report showed the biggest sales declines occurred in clothing stores, which registered a 2 percent decline last month and electronics sales, which fell 1.9 percent. Elsewhere, sales at gasoline stations fell 1.7 percent and building materials sales plunged 2.9 percent.
'07 wholesale inflation highest in 26 years Labor Department says soaring energy costs pushed wholesale inflation up 6.3% in 2007. WASHINGTON (AP) -- Wholesale inflation shot up in 2007 by the largest amount in 26 years, even though falling gasoline costs allowed price pressures to moderate in December.
The Labor Department reported that wholesale inflation was up 6.3 percent for all of 2007, reflecting a huge increase for the year in various types of energy costs ranging from gasoline to home heating oil.
The year ended on a more positive note, with wholesale prices falling by 0.1 percent in December. That reflected decreasing costs at the time for gasoline and other energy products. It was a significant slowdown after prices had soared by 3.2 percent in November, which had been the biggest one-month increase in 34 years.
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Saudi oil minister rebuffs White House Prominent OPEC nation says it won't increase oil output unless market requires it; statement comes after Bush urges cartel to boost supply.
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi Arabia will raise oil production only when the market justifies it, the kingdom's oil minister said Tuesday, in response to President Bush's request that OPEC nations increase output to reduce world oil prices.
"Our interest is to keep oil supplies matching demand with minimum volatility in the oil market," Oil Minister Ali Naimi Naimi told reporters. "We will raise production when the market justifies it. This is our policy."
Naimi said inventory levels appear to be "normal," adding, "we want the inventories to be healthful, but we don't want it to be extremely high or extremely low."
Earlier Tuesday in Riyadh, Bush warned that soaring oil prices could cause an economic slowdown in the United States.
"High energy prices can damage consuming economies," the president told a small group of reporters traveling with him in the Mideast.
Well... so much for that idea.
Maybe King George can trade Citigroup for a few dozen barrels of oil?
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After hearing a constant drumbeat of earnings warnings and fears about a possible recession, Wall Street got an unexpected and positive update from IBM today. "Big Blue's" surprise had the market on the positive side for the entire day with the Dow picking up more than 170 points. Today’s Market
The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 171.85 points, or 1.36% to 12778.15, the Standard & Poor’s 500 index gained 15.23 points, or 1.09% to 1416.25 and the Nasdaq Composite Index rose 38.36, or 1.57%, to 2478.30. The consumer-friendly Fox 50 picked up 11.71, or 1.16%, to 1022.16.
IBM's announcement this morning raised hopes on Wall Street that tech and other companies may meet or even beat current earnings estimates.
What the Iraq war will cost the U.S. Former White House economist Lawrence Lindsey ignited a furor with his estimate of the dollar cost of the Iraq war. For the first time, he tells how he came up with the number and what he thinks now.
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- The Iraq war has already cost the lives of nearly 4,000 U.S. troops, but there is another cost that is not so readily quantifiable: the economic toll. Forecasts of the cost to the U.S. have reached into the trillions of dollars, fueling a controversy over the impact on the budget and the economy. Missing from the debate until now has been the man who famously sparked it: Lawrence Lindsey, then President Bush's chief economist, who gave an estimate in 2002 that sent the Bush administration into sticker shock. Less than three months later he was out of the White House.
In this exclusive essay adapted from his new book, What a President Should Know ... but Most Learn Too Late (Rowman & Littlefield, 246 pages), Lindsey reveals how he came up with the number and what he thinks now. FORTUNE has a history of taking on such topics: In 1966 we published a landmark story researched by young economist Alan Greenspan that revealed Washington's massive underbudgeting for the Vietnam war. In the case of Lindsey's viewpoint, we think you'll find his case for the war's affordability to be a provocative one. To voice your opinion on the issue, go to fortune.com/talkback.
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