They never, ever discuss the quality of these new jobs, do they? Are they McDonalds jobs that are dead ends with no meaningful future? Or good paying jobs with benefits like affordable health insurance/care? I'm sure some of them are good, but I suspect that the bad jobs are disproportionally more common when compared with the existing jobs, i.e. for every engineer laid off a new burgerflipper job is created.
I'd really like to see some unbiased numbers on job quality as opposed to just volume.
JazzMan
NEVER! And a machine took the place of burger flippers about 5 years ago. Now you just slip the beef in the top and perfect pattied spit out the bottom.
No you said you didn't think of it, I'm asking for the difference between the two.
I pulled in 10% on my P mutual fund which is about what he pulled in (9%). My 401k did about the same. These were in investments of moderate risk. Would anyone care to adjust that percentage for the decreased US dollar value during 2007? I say it's still a nice net profit. it's not some big catostrophy like many uninformed people would like to believe. I'd be happy to give some real numbers if necessary.
Ok, let's assume it is not a good profit. Lets also consider the nature of the investment. Is it short or long term? Mine is a long term investment. I don't plan on pulling this money out until I retire in about 30 years. Remember that the majority of people fall into this category of investment. It's not black and white
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-02-2008).]
I pulled in 10% on my P mutual fund which is about what he pulled in (9%). My 401k did about the same. These were in investments of moderate risk. Would anyone care to adjust that percentage for the decreased US dollar value during 2007? I say it's still a nice net profit. it's not some big catostrophy like many uninformed people would like to believe. I'd be happy to give some real numbers if necessary.
Ok, let's assume it is not a good profit. Lets also consider the nature of the investment. Is it short or long term? Mine is a long term investment. I don't plan on pulling this money out until I retire in about 30 years. Remember that the majority of people fall into this category of investment. It's not black and white
They are crying about your 10% because they got nothing, that is what you too would have gotten if you didn't invest. The other question if wondering about the allmighty dollar equation, is just where and what would you invest in to avoid the decline cycle. Other than oil, which granted IS a biggie it only really hurts when you are buying your imported crap.
Next they will be saying I have been foolish to save my money because it is worth less than it was.
Kudos for you for doing more than thinking about you future and taking action and having a plan. Long term is the ticket.
I like how 123 posts a decline in the durable goods manufacturing order numbers for (((1 MONTH))) when it followed 10 MONTHS of gains, he has been crying about this topic the whole time ALL the numbers have been up. After all the doom and gloom the liberal press has been spewing for the benefit of this election cycle it is no wonder the numbers are starting to drop. Most of us here have said that could happen being that our economy is almost solely confidence based.
Next they will be saying I have been foolish to save my money because it is worth less than it was. With the falling dollar I almost whish we owed more money on the house :-)
Originally posted by Red88FF: I like how 123 posts a decline in the durable goods manufacturing order numbers for (((1 MONTH))) when it followed 10 MONTHS of gains, he has been crying about this topic the whole time ALL the numbers have been up. After all the doom and gloom the liberal press has been spewing for the benefit of this election cycle it is no wonder the numbers are starting to drop. Most of us here have said that could happen being that our economy is almost solely confidence based.
Next they will be saying I have been foolish to save my money because it is worth less than it was. With the falling dollar I almost whish we owed more money on the house :-)
I like how all who are saying the economy is doing good because they are. Like you.
Funny thing is over the last 30 years working I have paid off every home that I have bought, EARLY. And not by selling them.
How about you?
My home is paid for, in full. 4 years early on a 15 year note. All the others were paid off early because I thought ahead.
I did not get an ARM or refinance to buy new cars, big screen TVs, and other toys.
Some will always be doing well, even if the economy goes into a depression.
Stop the crap all of you. We have been headed into a recession for a year and we are still headed into a recession of biblical proportion. It won’t happen in a day, week, or month but it will happen. Soon.
Keep telling yourselves we are fine.
Many here who are saying that the economy is fine own businesses. Are in recession proof jobs like Ace. Yet those who live from paycheck to paycheck are not in such good shape. And that number is growing daily, because of the economy, the price of oil/gas has a lot to do with that. How much did a 100 gallons of oil cost last year at this time? I just got 100 gallons of kerosene and it was 349 bucks, the hundred gallons of oil I just bought before that cost 319.
Funny thing about averages.
Lets take 100 people in any place. 2 make 1 million a year. The rest make 100K a year.
Now those who make 100K a year average 100K a year if you just average their income. But if you add those 2 that make 1 million now what is that average?
118,000 so those 2 people who are making that higher income has increased the average income by 18K. Does that make any of those people who are in the majority make any more?
The real problem is people don’t think beyond their own bubble.
Think what you want, I see beyond the people who know so much because I have seen what is going to happen. Without a degree in economics.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-03-2008).]
Originally posted by JazzMan: They never, ever discuss the quality of these new jobs, do they? Are they McDonalds jobs that are dead ends with no meaningful future? Or good paying jobs with benefits like affordable health insurance/care? I'm sure some of them are good, but I suspect that the bad jobs are disproportionally more common when compared with the existing jobs, i.e. for every engineer laid off a new burgerflipper job is created.
I'd really like to see some unbiased numbers on job quality as opposed to just volume.
JazzMan
while I am 100% in agreement with ya: quality jobs create themselves - that is why they are quality jobs.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: ..... Think what you want, I see beyond the people who know so much because I have seen what is going to happen. Without a degree in economics.
well, I guess I'll jump on the train too
you do realize that "economics" is a 100% a made up item? its like a degree in mythology. while cool & useful where properly applied - it is made up. there is very little actual knowledge involved. the study of economic history. basicly: it has less science & reliablitlity than the weatherman - because it deals with one particularly unpredictable thing: people. not saying it is trivial or unimportant. it is not. our happiness & well being depends HIGHLY on certain people make the right guesses. determine variables - apply past trends - make future projection
anyways: we have all heard the warnings - so, how's about someone actually lay out a description? rationing? food banks? tent cities? what are we looking at? here in Detroit - I expect riots or at least a new crazy level of robbery. maybe even domestic terrorism acts against our Furer, Granholm.
Caution: Job losses ahead Economists say recession fears could lead to weak employment in 2008 as companies may become more cautious about adding workers.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The labor market is expected to end 2007 with a whimper, but even that modest forecast could be seen as "the good old days," since monthly job losses may become common in the year ahead, according to economists.
The December employment report due at 8:30 a.m. ET Friday should see a net gain of 70,000 jobs in the month, according to economists surveyed by Briefing.com, down from the 94,000 gain reported in November.
NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street rebounded Thursday after a report of an increase in new jobs during December eased some concerns about the economy a day before the Labor Department's key reading on employment. Investors appeared unfazed by a further climb in oil prices, which set a new trading record above $100.
Give it a break 84Bull. You are on the public dole. Unfortunately that is your income, and you have no fear of losing your free cheese.
Here's what God told Pat Robertson: World upheaval is coming, evangelist Robertson says January 3, 2008
NORFOLK, Va. - Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson said Wednesday that 2008 will be a year of violence worldwide and a recession in the United States, followed by a major stock-market crash by 2010. Praying about events in the coming year and sharing what he believes God has told him are an annual tradition for Robertson, founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network.
Around here the job market is quite, strange, for lack of a better word. Employers are so desperate for workers that there are signs up at 7-11 looking for workings with advertised pay of $15 an hour plus full health / dental coverage, and Dominos pizza now has billboards up advertising $20 bucks an hour for new employees. Funny thing is, our city has a relatively high unemployment rate due to our huge native population who would rather sit on their ass, get pissed / stoned, all the while whining about their lowly living conditions rather then go out and take some of these jobs. Here's where things get really strange. While these service industry related jobs are obvioulsy not everyones cup of tea and thus require the extra income incentive to attract workers, the "professional" industries have no such problem filling their limited job openings, but still pay average salaries barely above those of the untrained service workers because these jobs are in demand. Call me crazy, but to me it would seem that someone who has invested in some sort of formal education should be making more than an untrained coffee server / pizza guy, but with our city's current economy this just isn't the case. With price of housing and other commodities going through the roof, it just seems like it is getting harder and harder to make ends meet in the so called middle class. The line between middle and lower class just seems to get more blurry each day, while those at the top who own the housing, the properties, and the corporations just get richer and richer. I am not a communist by any means, but something just seems fundamentally wrong with the system.
Friday should see a net gain of 70,000 jobs in the month, according to economists surveyed by Briefing.com, down from the 94,000 gain reported in November.
Thats 70k more jobs over the 94k from last month. These are new jobs on top of the old ones. That means its not 24k less jobs, just 70k new ones. How is 70k new jobs bad?
Around here the job market is quite, strange, for lack of a better word. Employers are so desperate for workers that there are signs up at 7-11 looking for workings with advertised pay of $15 an hour plus full health / dental coverage, and Dominos pizza now has billboards up advertising $20 bucks an hour for new employees. Funny thing is, our city has a relatively high unemployment rate due to our huge native population who would rather sit on their ass, get pissed / stoned, all the while whining about their lowly living conditions rather then go out and take some of these jobs. Here's where things get really strange. While these service industry related jobs are obvioulsy not everyones cup of tea and thus require the extra income incentive to attract workers, the "professional" industries have no such problem filling their limited job openings, but still pay average salaries barely above those of the untrained service workers because these jobs are in demand. Call me crazy, but to me it would seem that someone who has invested in some sort of formal education should be making more than an untrained coffee server / pizza guy, but with our city's current economy this just isn't the case. With price of housing and other commodities going through the roof, it just seems like it is getting harder and harder to make ends meet in the so called middle class. The line between middle and lower class just seems to get more blurry each day, while those at the top who own the housing, the properties, and the corporations just get richer and richer. I am not a communist by any means, but something just seems fundamentally wrong with the system.
sounds just like how we were back in the "clinton years". first thing that started happeneing is everyone started crying about "customer service".
Around here the job market is quite, strange, for lack of a better word. Employers are so desperate for workers that there are signs up at 7-11 looking for workings with advertised pay of $15 an hour plus full health / dental coverage, and Dominos pizza now has billboards up advertising $20 bucks an hour for new employees. Funny thing is, our city has a relatively high unemployment rate due to our huge native population who would rather sit on their ass, get pissed / stoned, all the while whining about their lowly living conditions rather then go out and take some of these jobs. Here's where things get really strange. While these service industry related jobs are obvioulsy not everyones cup of tea and thus require the extra income incentive to attract workers, the "professional" industries have no such problem filling their limited job openings, but still pay average salaries barely above those of the untrained service workers because these jobs are in demand. Call me crazy, but to me it would seem that someone who has invested in some sort of formal education should be making more than an untrained coffee server / pizza guy, but with our city's current economy this just isn't the case. With price of housing and other commodities going through the roof, it just seems like it is getting harder and harder to make ends meet in the so called middle class. The line between middle and lower class just seems to get more blurry each day, while those at the top who own the housing, the properties, and the corporations just get richer and richer. I am not a communist by any means, but something just seems fundamentally wrong with the system.
Nothing wrong with the system. Its with the people. Those at the top are there because they worked to get there. They use their money to make more money. If people applied them selves more they too can get to the top. Or at least closer. But so many people find hard work beneath them. Its the lazy entitlement attitude that has permeated the culture.
Originally posted by Phranc: Nothing wrong with the system. Its with the people. Those at the top are there because they worked to get there. They use their money to make more money. If people applied them selves more they too can get to the top. Or at least closer. But so many people find hard work beneath them. Its the lazy entitlement attitude that has permeated the culture.
there is only so much room for "rich" people. everyone cant be rich. but - that by no means should hold you back from at least carrying yourself forwards.
tho - just for a giggle: how about we go ahead and see what pops out: the total number of available dollars divided by total number of US citizens.
and, lastly - the hardest working people are the least paid, and the least hard working people are the most paid.
but....of course, these are just generalizations - and there are exceptions to everything - when it comes to people.
Originally posted by loafer87gt: Around here the job market is quite, strange, for lack of a better word. Employers are so desperate for workers that there are signs up at 7-11 looking for workings with advertised pay of $15 an hour plus full health / dental coverage, and Dominos pizza now has billboards up advertising $20 bucks an hour for new employees. .
15 and 20 per hour isnt really all that great of a wage. If it includes health then it aint so bad but at straight rate no bens especially if one uses a car, it aint worth the aggravation.
NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street rebounded Thursday after a report of an increase in new jobs during December eased some concerns about the economy a day before the Labor Department's key reading on employment. Investors appeared unfazed by a further climb in oil prices, which set a new trading record above $100.
Well I guess this from your own link means nothing
"We are worried about inflation," said Nicholas Raich, director of equity research at National City Private Client Group in Cleveland. "That's probably the biggest risk in 2008."
You people amaze me, your own educated people are worried about this yet you guys say it ain’t happening.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Originally posted by Old Lar: Give it a break 84Bull. You are on the public dole. Unfortunately that is your income, and you have no fear of losing your free cheese.
Give it a rest Old Lard
As of 3:29 -18.05 -0.14% 13,025.91
Stocks struggle in late trade Wall Street wobbles after previous session's big decline, as investors mull reports on jobs and factory orders.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-03-2008).]
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Orders to U.S. factories jumped in November by the largest amount in four months,
Which means this isnt important... BUT a key gauge of business investment fell for a second straight month, raising new worries about the strength of manufacturing.
Economy faces weak winter Conference Board index of leading indicators falls by 0.4 percent in November, adding to fears of 2008 recession
NEW YORK (AP) -- A gauge of future business activity fell last month, indicating the economy could be dragged down further amid rising costs and housing woes, a business research group said Thursday.
The Conference Board said its index of leading indicators dropped 0.4 percent in November, after falling 0.5 percent in October and rising by a slight 0.1 percent in September.
It was at 136.3 in November, versus a revised 136.9 in the previous month.
Last month's drop was close to what economists surveyed by Thomson/IFR had predicted, who on average said there would be a drop of 0.5 percent.
The index is watched as an indicator of where the U.S. economy is headed, and persistent weakness can signal a recession in three to six months. Many economist believe the current slowdown could mean a full recession in 2008.
Ten indicators make up the leading index. Seven of them fell: stock prices, average weekly initial claims for unemployment insurance, index of consumer expectations, real money supply, building permits, interest rate spread and manufacturers new orders for consumer goods and materials. To top of page Jobless claims up
More consumers late on loans since 2001 In levels not seen since the recession of 2001, consumers face 30-days past due notices.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Late payments on a cluster of consumer loans, including those for autos, home improvement and certain home equity loans, climbed in the summer to their highest point since the country's last recession in 2001.
The American Bankers Association reported Thursday that the delinquency rate on a composite of consumer loans increased to 2.44 percent in the July-to-September quarter. That was up sharply from 2.27 percent in the previous quarter and was the highest late-payment rate since the second quarter of 2001, when the economy was suffering through a recession.
Payments are considered delinquent if they are 30 or more days past due. The survey is based on information supplied by more than 300 banks nationwide.
Late payments on credit cards, meanwhile, dipped during summer.
The delinquency rate on credit cards dropped to 4.18 percent in the third quarter, down from 4.39 percent in the second quarter.
The association's quarterly survey of consumer loans painted a mixed picture of how people are managing their debt. It suggested that some people feel more squeezed than others.
A severe housing slump and weaker home values have clobbered some homeowners - making it difficult, or even impossible for some to pay their monthly mortgages. Foreclosures surged to record highs and more homeowners fell behind on their payments during the third quarter of last year, the Mortgage Bankers Association reported last month.
Though at first glance it seems like $15-20 an hour with benefits sounds like a really great deal, I have a few questions.
1. I thought that Canada had a national health service plan? If so, doesn't that mean that the health and dental plans are already there for every citizen? Why mention them in the context of a job opportunity? Down here there are no health plans of any kind available for Domino's, I know because I worked there for a year, and the basic cost of health insurance (with severely limited benefits and costly deductibles/copays) runs several thousand a year down here in Texas. That's why 1 in 7 Texans has no health insurance.
2. I know that Canadian employees pay a fairly high tax rate toward supporting the national health care service, IIRC it's somewhere around 30%? To be more accurate, that initial offered dollar wage of $15-20 should be reduced by the percentage paid in taxes so that what's left more accurately reflects what the person is earning.
3. I remember reading that the COL, Cost of Living, is actually quite a bit higher in Canada. Getting $20 an hour doesn't seem like such a great deal when the rents in the area are over a thousand a month and of that $20 only $11 actually makes it to the pocket of the rent payer. Energy is more expensive up there, as are food, clothing, and other essential living expenditures.
JazzMan
Hey Jazz,
1. Our healthcare plan does not cover any medication or prescription drugs, nor do we have any sort of universal dental plan coverage. For such things we have to go through a 3rd party health insurer.
2. Yes - our taxes are very high. Tax freedom day in Canada is now on June 20 for us Canucks. In comparison, residents of the US start earning for themselves instead of the government on April 30th.
3. Cost of living is about on par with the United States, from what I have read. This largely depends on which province you are in. In our case, our housing cost are somewhat lower than those in BC or Alberta, but other costs are quite high because our socialist government is the sole provider of telecommunications, car insurance, oil, gas, energy, and of course, liquor.
I know $20 is not that high of a hourly wage, but when you consider that it is very hard to find even higher up employees in successful businesses here making more than $40 an hour it does not seem like a bad income for relatively unskilled labour.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 01-03-2008).]
WASHINGTON (AP) — Hiring practically stalled in December, driving the nation's unemployment rate up to a two-year high of 5 percent and fanning fears of a recession. Employers last month added the fewest new jobs to their payrolls in more than four years, according to the employment report released Friday by the Labor Department. The report showed that employment conditions are deteriorating, strained by a housing slump and credit crunch that are sapping economic strength. "The economy is getting hit by some body blows. The big question is whether the economy can withstand it or will it take a fall," said Ken Mayland, president of ClearView Economics. The unemployment rate jumped from 4.7 percent in November to 5 percent in December, the highest since November 2005 after the Gulf Coast hurricanes dealt the country a mighty blow. Total payrolls — both private employers and government — grew by just 18,000 last month, the worst showing since August 2003, when the economy suffered job losses as it struggled to recover from the 2001 recession.
Brutal selloff on Wall Street Dow tumbles over 250 points after weaker-than-expected jobs report revives recession worries. The Nasdaq plunges.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks tanked Friday, with the Dow shedding over 250 points, after a weaker-than-expected December jobs report exacerbated recession fears.
The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) tumbled almost 2 percent. The broader S&P 500 (INX) index lost around 2.5 percent. The Russell 2000 (RUT.X) small-cap index fell 3.2 percent.
The Nasdaq (COMPX) composite lost 3.8 percent, or just over 98 points. According to Stock Trader's Almanac, it was the tech-heavy index's biggest one-day point loss since Sept. 17, 2001, the first day the market reopened for trading after having been closed in the aftermath of 9/11. On that day, the Nasdaq lost 115.83 points.
A weaker-than-expected unemployment rate sparked a big stock selloff. Bonds rallied, as investors sought safety and the dollar fell versus other major currencies. Oil and gold prices retreated from recent records.
Employers added 18,000 jobs to their payrolls last month, short of forecasts for 70,000 and down from a revised 115,000 in the previous month. The 18,000 figure marked the weakest monthly jobs growth since August 2003. (Full story).
The unemployment rate, generated by a separate survey, rose to 5 percent - a more than two-year low - from 4.7 percent in the previous month. Economists thought it would rise to 4.8 percent.
Average hourly earnings, the report's inflation component, rose 0.4 percent after rising a revised 0.4 percent in the previous month. Economists thought wages would rise 0.3 percent.
Stocks have been volatile for months as investors have mulled the fallout from the housing and credit market crises, and worried that the economy could be heading into recession.
The weak labor market report amplified those worries.
"In September, October and November we saw pretty solid payroll numbers, indicating that although the economy was in a bit of a slowdown, the jobs market was holding up, giving us some sort of floor," said Georges Yared, chief investment strategist at Yared Investment Research. "That floor was pulled out from under us this morning."
In the next few months, investors will be looking to see if the employment report was a temporary indication or the start of a longer-term downtrend for the labor market.
"Jobs growth in the month was moribund and we should expect it to be moribund for a while," said Brett Hammond, chief investment strategist at TIAA-CREF. "But I think we shouldn't get too overwhelmed by the notion of a recession yet."
He said that economic growth prospects look to pick up in the second half of the year, and that by that point the housing issues will be "through the trough," although the woes for that sector won't be over yet.
In the short-term, investors will be looking to see how the Dec. jobs report impacts near-term Federal Reserve policy, with bets now rising that the central bank could cut rates more aggressively, perhaps at the next meeting on Jan. 29 and 30. (Full story)
The Federal Reserve announced Friday that it will lend up to $60 billion this month to banks through its new auction process as a means of easing the credit crunch.
Treasury prices climbed, as investors sought safety in the comparably less risky government debt. The rise lowered the yield on the 10-year note to 3.84 percent from 3.89 percent late Thursday. Treasury prices and yields move in opposite directions.
In currency trading, the dollar slipped versus the yen and the euro.
U.S. light crude oil for February fell $1.27 to settle at $97.91 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, after hitting a record trading high above $100 a barrel during Thursday's session.
COMEX gold for February delivery fell $3.40 to settle at $869.10 an ounce, pulling back from an all-time high hit Wednesday.
Stock declines were broad based, with 29 out of 30 Dow components falling, led by tech stocks such as Intel (INTC, Fortune 500), IBM (IBM, Fortune 500) and Hewlett-Packard (HPQ, Fortune 500) and financial companies such as Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) and JP Morgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500).
Intel's decline followed a JP Morgan downgrade to "neutral" from "overweight." Separately, the chipmaker said it is pulling out of the One Laptop Per Child program.
Intel also trades on the Nasdaq and was among the 96 components of the Nasdaq 100 that fell on the session.
A slew of retail stocks fell on concerns that weaker job growth will slam consumer spending. The S&P Retail index lost nearly 4 percent.
Market breadth was negative. On the New York Stock Exchange, losers topped winners by more than three to one on volume of 1.26 billion shares. On the Nasdaq, decliners beat advancers four to one as 2.07 billion shares changed hands.
In other economic news, the Institute for Supply Management's reading on the services sector showed a smaller monthly decline than economists had been expecting. (Full story).
Wall Street also considered the results from Thursday's Iowa caucuses, which kicked off the 2008 presidential election. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee won on the Republican side and Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois won for the Democrats.
Stocks were mixed Thursday as a jump in factory orders helped temper concerns about inflation as oil and gold prices hit record highs.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-04-2008).]
I love real-life stories of people who get rich slowly. Paul Navone, a 78-year-old resident of Millville, New Jersey, is one of those. On December 21st, Navone donated $1 million to Cumberland County College. He still has millions left. How did he earn his money? The old-fashioned way: lots of hard work.
Navone never attended high school. He began working in local glass factories at the age of 16. In 50 years, he never made more than $11 per hour, often putting in 60 hour weeks. He never experienced a windfall; instead, he practiced thrift, and he invested in the stock market.
“Paul never inherited money,” his broker told The Press of Atlantic City. “Paul started from zero. He just worked hard. He stayed the course even through the bad markets. Paul rarely ever took money out. He was the perfect client.” The newspaper’s editors write:
Such a life seems almost impossible to live today, doesn’t it? Get rich merely by working hard and saving and investing? Then not spending any of that investment income?
Simply accumulating wealth that way is impressive and praiseworthy. But then to start giving it way — to give $1 million to a small community college? All because of hard work, thrift and a spirit of generosity? Paul Navone is one rare, rare individual — and a lesson for us all in this age of conspicuous consumption.
Navone shops at flea markets, drives an older SUV, and rarely buys anything at full price. He doesn’t own a phone or a television. Though he’s something of a recluse, he leads a happy life — one of his hobbies is announcing a BINGO game at the local McDonald’s every Wednesday morning.
His wealth came from frugal living, wise investing, and from owning several rental properties. Navone’s story is a perfect example of the power of time. If you’re patient, your money will grow, and wealth will come.
It’s fun to watch Navone’s story develop gradually in the pages of The Press of Atlantic City. Here are three relevant articles:
* 21 Dec 2007: Retired factory worker gives $1 million to Cumberland County College * 31 Dec 2007: Milville philanthropist has no television or home phone, but millions to give away * 02 Jan 2008: Paul Navone: A life well-lived
As much as I admire John Bogle and Warren Buffett, it’s folks like Paul Navone who are the real personal finance heroes.
Seems it doesn't mater what the economy is like if you invest smartly, work hard and live with in your means.
Phranc give it up. The post you made was of one man, unmarried that made his money over the last 30+ years.
Do you have a TV? New car?
Well he doesn’t, didn’t and he is the exception to what is happening here today in our present economy.
Granted he is a great read. that’s it.
Is this how you made all your money?
Just give up, you and the others on this thread who keep saying we are in good shape are lost in their own little world.
The majority of Americans are just barely getting by. Have you bought gas or oil lately?
Last time I bought oil for my home was just last week. It cost me $349 for 100 gallons of Kerosene. Last tine I got gas for something it was $3.22 a gallon for regular.
You may be doing fine, millions may be doing fine, but tens of millions of Americans are not.
Prices are going up because of the price of fuel. Food is costing more because of the price of fuel to deliver said products.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Mr. Bitter, Phranc, Red, pokey and I and all others posting "opposition" to you and Bill posting Doom and Gloom are typical middle-class Americans! We aren't the upper-crust. We know the economy has it's high points and it's low points. We know the economy is not just a few stories over the past month or two of doom and gloom or a few stories of highs in the economy. When those that post good articles of the economy, it's usual either an article showing more of a longterm/quarterly item or a good news to counter Bill's usual daily doom and gloom. We don't post, "Hey! The stick market went up .5% today!"
Millions of Americans may be struggling severely. Millions of Americans are doing very well. Millions of Americans are just making it. Millions of Americans are just barely making it.
WELCOME TO AMERICA! America and it's economy is not just your situation and how you view things because of your "fixed income" crap. America and it's economy is not just Bill's refusal to take a job besides a good paying computer job and "sticking it to the man". ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Do I like the fuel prices these days? NO! It costs me over $125 to drive 400 miles back to Minneapolis twice a month...........But I pay it and continue to survive.
Do I like the housing market? NO! I'm paying a $1100 mortgage and now a $250 rent payment a month while I wait for my once overinflated in value house to sell...........But I pay it and continue to survive.
Do I like it that my stocks didn't make as much as they did previously? No, but they still made money again this year.
Do I like that milk has gone up from $2/gallon to $3/gallon? No, but I pay it and continue to survive.
I suppose I could either not pay it and complain and whine about everything or pay it and complain and whine about everything as you and Bill have, but I guess the simple dumb 'ol Army did teach me something..........................I can complain and whine about something all day long. That complaining and whining isn't going to do a damn thing. The event is still going to happen. Life is still going to occur, so I might as well learn to improvise, adapt and overcome.
So, Mr Bitter, keep complaining. Keep telling yourself that the economy is going down the tubes and there's nothing that can be done. I'm going to keep living my life in the high points and the low points of this economy. I'll improvise, adapt and overcome.
Bummer space, I feel for you but I'm glad you're mad and I hope you stay that way. However, if you really dont like doom and gloom you could just ignore it. You know ignorance is bliss... rose colored glasses... it's not my problem so there isnt a problem?
I'm not mad, Bill. If you really don't like the FACT that the economy still hasn't had one quarter or month in loss of GDP, you could choose to ignore that and put on your rose-colored glasses. You're doing that anyways.
I'm not the one crying that I can't find a job in the field I wanted.
I'm not the one crying because I live on a fixed income and feel the economy is bad because I don't understand any of it.
I'm not the one whining about the economy. You two are.
[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 01-06-2008).]
Phranc give it up. The post you made was of one man, unmarried that made his money over the last 30+ years.
Do you have a TV? New car?
Well he doesn’t, didn’t and he is the exception to what is happening here today in our present economy.
Granted he is a great read. that’s it.
Is this how you made all your money?
Just give up, you and the others on this thread who keep saying we are in good shape are lost in their own little world.
The majority of Americans are just barely getting by. Have you bought gas or oil lately?
Last time I bought oil for my home was just last week. It cost me $349 for 100 gallons of Kerosene. Last tine I got gas for something it was $3.22 a gallon for regular.
You may be doing fine, millions may be doing fine, but tens of millions of Americans are not.
Prices are going up because of the price of fuel. Food is costing more because of the price of fuel to deliver said products.
Give what up? Proving that a man who lived through 2 real recessions can come out a millionaire? Give up on showing you that you don't know what your talking about? Maybe you should give up. Give up your luxuries. Give up living out side of your means. If you got it so bad sell your TV., Ohh but you don't really have it that bad. Does your "fixed income" amount to $11 an hour? Have you planned out your finances for the future? You sound bitter that this guy figured it out and you didn't.
And the majority of Americans are getting by just fine. And many many more would be if they only bought what they could afford. But hey they don't live with in their means and now its hurting them. Thats their fault not the economies.
I have a TV. I have 8. biggest one is a 60 inch HD. I have a car. 4 in fact and 3 company trucks. Yeah I've bought gas lately. But then again those items are with in my means. I paid cash for them. See I don't buy things I cant afford. And yes working hard and investments is how I made and keep making my money. Not only do I invest in the markets and my own company that is part of the economy but the future too. I invest in other people. How many people have you sent to university? I've got two going right now. Out of my own pocket. I never went. Those two people will down the road add more to the economy they ever did. So keep sitting there moaning I'll keep making this place better.
If you really don't like the FACT that the economy still hasn't had one quarter or month in loss of GDP, you could choose to ignore that and put on your rose-colored glasses. You're doing that anyways.
If thats is a fact then by all means post it but dont whine and cry when I have more to post in a day than you do in a week
quote
I'm not the one crying that I can't find a job in the field I wanted.
That was 5 years ago, I'm well over that now. I just get my freebies and move on
quote
I'm not the one crying because I live on a fixed income and feel the economy is bad because I don't understand any of it.
Neither am I Spacey
The difference between you and I is I hear hear them crying and you dont.
quote
I'm not the one whining about the economy. You two are.
Comical...
quote
Originally posted by spacecadet:
Do I like the fuel prices these days? NO! It costs me over $125 to drive 400 miles back to Minneapolis twice a month...........But I pay it and continue to survive.
Do I like the housing market? NO! I'm paying a $1100 mortgage and now a $250 rent payment a month while I wait for my once overinflated in value house to sell...........But I pay it and continue to survive.
Do I like it that my stocks didn't make as much as they did previously? No, but they still made money again this year.
Do I like that milk has gone up from $2/gallon to $3/gallon? No, but I pay it and continue to survive.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-06-2008).]
If thats is a fact then by all means post it but don't whine and cry when I have more to post in a day than you do in a week
It is a fact and has been posted several times. You know all those post about increases. The ones you ignore. And the only reason you post more is because you and farm boy post the same things over and over ad nausium.
Bill, you have more time than I do to post crap I can read on CNN.com. And get the same news. It's not a good read to publish a story....."Dow down .5%, Unemployment Claims Up .3%, But the Economy Is Not in a Recession"
Why should I care about someone on a fixed income crying about things when they never planned for the future and they have a capable spouse to go out and make the average wage in America of $16/hr
And the last part you find comical.......... I'm simply stating that just like every other American, these issues affect me. I'm just dealing with it and moving on. You, you're whining about it. You and Mr. Bitter whining about these things has done NOTHING to change these issues. Me improvising, adapting and overcoming these issues have at least changed things for me.
[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 01-06-2008).]
[QUOTE]If thats is a fact then by all means post it but don't whine and cry when I have more to post in a day than you do in a week[QUOTE] It is a fact and has been posted several times. You know all those post about increases. The ones you ignore. And the only reason you post more is because you and farm boy post the same things over and over ad nausium.
Yes facts can be ad nausium but the fact is these are story headlines..
Bankruptcies jump 40 percent in 2007 The American Bankruptcy Institute blames the mortgage crisis for heavy debt load, warns that this year could see more bankruptcies.
More consumers late on loans since 2001 In levels not seen since the recession of 2001, consumers face 30-days past due notices.
Don't expect a bigger raise this year
How Bush may boost the economy
Bush to meet with finance working group The president will gather advisers, including Ben Bernanke and Henry Paulson, to discuss economic policy as rising unemployment fuels fears of a recession.
If it bothers you that much you can ignore the posts and the world will be bright and shiny for you.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-06-2008).]
