Dow at 7-month low Blue chips close at lowest point since April on worries about mortgage and credit markets and the surge in oil prices. Markets closed for Thanksgiving.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks slumped Wednesday, with the Dow closing at a 7-month low, as worries about the credit and mortgage market and higher oil prices hit investors hard ahead of what for many will be a long holiday weekend.
The Dow Jones industrial average (Charts) lost around 211 points or 1.6 percent according to early tallies. That set the Dow at its lowest point since April 17, when it ended the session at 12,773.04.
Santa may skip Wall Street this year The usually upbeat December stock market could turn out to be downright frigid in '07.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Sing it with us: "You needn't watch out. You might as well cry. You might as well pout I'm telling you why. Santa Claus ain't coming to town."
Somehow it's not as catchy as the original. But it could be accurate this year.
A year-end rally, which has become something of a rite on Wall Street, could be off the table this year due to the myriad woes investors are facing. From the credit crisis to concerns that consumer spending is flagging, there's little incentive for Santa to touch down this year.
Tuesday's menu included the Federal Reserve's dour 2008 economic outlook, Freddie Mac's cash crunch and oil at a record near $100 a barrel.
"I wouldn't bet on the typical November and December advance unless the consumer shows that we have incredible buying power in there," said Paul Mendelsohn, chief investment strategist at Windham Financial Services.
"The market is now looking toward 2008 and a slowdown, and I find it hard to believe that we can have a year-end rally," Mendelsohn added.
But hey, there are some reasons why Wall Street might see a typically upbeat December and an end of the year "Santa Claus" rally.
"An end of the year run is not necessarily off the table," said Art Hogan, chief market analyst at Jefferies & Co. He said that Wall Street still needs to work its way through a lot on the financial side. Yet, the broad selloff of recent weeks may have primed stocks for a bigger bounce back, particularly in the areas of the market that are unaffected by the credit market mess.
"But there's no question of volatility," he said. "It's going to be very bumpy through the end of the year."
How long did you say it had to be @ 12,500 Spaceyboy?
The size and strength of the U.S. economy: Is the U.S. economy in an irrevocable ruinous state? That may be your conclusion if you read certain columnists and newspapers (many of which have penned a continuous stream of erroneous information over the past five years or more).
Despite serious credit issues, the economy grew 3.9% in the third quarter, which follows 3.1% growth in the previous quarter. According to Nicholas Vardy of The Global Guru newsletter, these two quarters of growth put together mean the U.S. “added the equivalent of a new Saudi Arabia to its economy.”
No country comes close to our size, flexibility and innovative capacity. U.S. GDP is projected to hit $13.22 trillion at the end of 2007. If you combine the economies of the next four largest – Japan, Germany, China and the U.K. – you then have a competitive match-up with America.
In fact, the World Economic Forum just rated the U.S. economy No. 1 in the world. Where were all the headlines regarding this noteworthy rating?
I hitched my wagon to the numbers. You know that 3.1 and 3.9 % growth. You know that doom and gloom recession ..... oh wait thats right recessions are consecutive quarters of negative growth not positive growth.
And from your link all I got was this:
quote
“In the end, small businesses, their employees and the economy will suffer,” says Karen Kerrigan, president and CEO of the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council.
She's really bashing that union isn't she!!! Really lovin' those illegals..........
Forgive my not highlighting the part about your pro. From the article. Many illegal immigrants, however, may move into the underground economy instead of going back to their home countries, says Angelo Amador, director of immigration policy for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. This would cost the U.S. government billions of dollars in taxes and Social Security contributions. The new regulation also may accelerate the outsourcing of work to other countries, Amador said. Businesses, meanwhile, will be forced to hire attorneys, human resources specialists and other consultants in order to comply with the new regulations, he says. “In the end, small businesses, their employees and the economy will suffer,” says Karen Kerrigan, president and CEO of the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Just totally ignore the numbers that actually show what the economy is doing! Further blather about the cost of enforcing the law. Illegal's do not pay social security unless they have stolen a number or a identity or both,,,,,oooops there's that word again STOLEN! yes committed YET another crime.
And the government says there is no area 51, so that must be true right.
Doesn’t anyone else see threw the brainwashing the government is trying to do here.
We are doing great, the economy is just fine.
Those of you that are doing good, good for you, but just because one segment of te country is doing great does not mean we all are.
The point about Karen Kerrigan was that she thinks illegal workers are good for this country. Sooo she really knows what she is talking about then, right boys.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: The point about Karen Kerrigan was that she thinks illegal workers are good for this country. Sooo she really knows what she is talking about then, right boys.
Can you quote that? I mean a quote of her saying that not what your misinterpreting and reading into?
Can you quote that? I mean a quote of her saying that not what your misinterpreting and reading into?
“In the end, small businesses, their employees and the economy will suffer,” says Karen Kerrigan, president and CEO of the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
“In the end, small businesses, their employees and the economy will suffer,” says Karen Kerrigan, president and CEO of the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council.
Some how that doesn't add up to:
quote
illegal workers are good for this country
Maybe my english to english translation is broken or something.
In fact all she is doing is admitting that the economy will take a hit when you implement a measure that would add time and use of resource to check legal status. And it will take a small bump. Very small and it will go away after time as the costs are absorbed in to the day to day. She doesn't even quantify how much suffering there will be. No where does she say it shouldn't be done. Or that she wants illegals to stay or that they are good for this country.
I asked "Can you quote that? I mean a quote of her saying that not what your misinterpreting and reading into?" and apparently you can't.
Steve, so if a majority of the country's people are struggling and the economy isn't growing but a segment of the country is doing well......It's in the toilet and we're in a recession. CORRECT?
THEREFORE:
If a majority of the country's people are doing okay to very well and a SEGEMENT OF THE COUNTRY IS NOT DOING GREAT and the economy is growing (Be it only .5%), then we ARE NOT in a recession and the economy is doing just fine. CORRECT!
Simple logic that you used and I used right back at you.
If you can't agree with your own logic, Steve.......... Get out of the deep end of the pool. You're drowning. Either agree with the logical statement I posted or stop trying to post an argument.
The batteries in my crystal ball are dead but heres a prediction based on current trends.... I wonder if the average small business man can absorb the losses as the following article predicts
Black Friday halo dims as '08 jitters erupt While deep discounts will get retailers through a mediocre holiday season, the bigger worry is how merchants will manage a post-holiday sales slump.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- While millions of bargain-hungry Americans count down to Black Friday, experts are already looking beyond what's expected to be a mediocre holiday season to how retailers do damage control in 2008.
"The holiday season is what it is. In the mind of a retail person, the holiday season is over," said Tim Finley, former CEO of men's specialty chain Jos. A Bank (Charts). "If I were still the CEO of a major retail chain I would already be planning for damage control post holidays."
The day after Thanksgiving is dubbed "Black Friday" because it traditionally marked the day when retailers finally move out of the red, indicating losses, and into the black, representing profits.
Special Report: Holiday Money 2007 Toys still tainted with lead: Groups Nov 20: Research groups find that toys on store shelves still contain illegal amounts of toxic substance. (more) Energy costs to hurt holiday spending Nov 19: Consumers are likely to spend less this season due to the rising costs of gasoline and heating oil, a survey shows. (more) Wal-Mart's Black Friday deals Nov 13: Retailer's planned discounts for day after Thanksgiving center on consumer electronics such as a Philips 50-inch HDTV and an Xbox 360. (more) Weaker holiday gift card sales Nov 13: Even though more than half of shoppers will buy gift cards, sales will fall this season, according to a survey. (more) Wal-Mart cautious on holiday earnings Nov 13: Largest retailer tops third-quarter earnings forecasts, but says fourth-quarter earnings may fall below estimates because of flat sales. (more) Recalls scare parents away from hot toys Nov 9: Parents are trying to avoid trendy toys by considering alternatives like books and music. (more) Target's Black Friday deals leaked Nov 8: Retailer's hot Black Friday discounts reportedly include a 37-inch LCD HDTV for $549 and a $60 free gift card with purchase of Xbox 360 and Halo 3 game. (more) Price tag for holiday fraud: $3.7 billion Nov 7: Retailers are reporting a higher incidence of product returns with either fraudulent or stolen receipts and returns of used merchandise. (more) Holiday must-haves at Toys 'R' Us Nov 6: The CEO of the toy retailer talks to Fortune's Matthew Boyle about this year's hot toys and the hard line the company is taking on safety. (more) Big holiday deals unwrapped early Nov 5: Wal-Mart's early price-cutting has ignited a wave of deep discounts that could rival Black Friday's blockbuster deals. (more) Malls stalking dollar-rich tourists Nov 2: Weak dollar spurs malls to go all out for shoppers from overseas - offering discounted hotel fares and free limo rides with Champagne. (more) Wal-Mart sets holiday deals this week Oct 31: World's largest retailer, anxious to capture holiday sales early on, plans to offer a $348 laptop computer and a 50-inch plasma HDTV for $998. (more) Why a Fed cut won't save Christmas Oct 30: The central bank cut interest rates on Wednesday, but 2 cuts in 2 months may not be enough to boost holiday sales. (more) Sam's Club CEO: 'We have personality' Oct 29: Despite parent company Wal-Mart's warning about tapped out consumers, Doug McMillon says he's not afraid to pitch a $347K diamond ring. (more) Wal-Mart CEO excited about holidays Oct 25: Lee Scott to analysts: 'In the U.S., I feel we are properly positioned for Christmas.' (more) Black Friday gimmicks start rolling in Oct 19: First out of the gate is Sam's Club, which is offering free breakfast in all of its stores nationwide to shoppers who come for its early-bird specials. (more) Wal-Mart: Stop leaking Black Friday deals Oct 18: Retailer is threatening legal action if Web sites leak its highly-popular Black Friday circular before Nov. 19. (more) Wal-Mart chops prices again Oct 18: Discounter cuts prices on 15,000 more products this week, including toys and kitchen appliances. (more) Splurges will be scarce this holiday season Oct 16: Industry survey shows Americans plan to spend a total of about $924 on gifts and other holiday purchases, up just 3.7% from last year. (more) 5 tips for smarter holiday shopping Oct 10: Experts offer secrets to scoring special sale items, buying safe products and making money while you shop. (more) Holiday retail: Bah, Humbug! Oct 5: CNNMoney.com survey finds that lackluster merchandise, wary consumers could drag down critical year-end shopping season. (more) Buy! Buy! 2007 'Hot Dozen' holiday toys Oct 2: Toy Wishes magazine picks Barbie Girls MP3 player, Fisher-Price's Smart Cycle and Rubik's Revolution among toys of the year. (more) Wal-Mart chops toy prices extra early Oct 1: World's largest retailer ignites holiday price war in October by announcing deep discounts on some holiday toys. (more)
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-22-2007).]
Sorry spacedouche... I forgot all about posting yesterdays market adjustment. Not that bad though.. just about a 2% loss. No biggie.
Dow Jones Industrial Average 12,743.44 -237.44 / -1.83%
The market is still down a few tenths of a percent over fridays horn tooting and yesterdays ass chomping. Ghod I love to be a day trader!
'Ho, Ho, Ho' may be 'Oh, No' for economy When the bills come due, the holiday consumer spending spree could be a 'last hurrah' for the nation's economic growth. NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Santa Claus may leave a recession under the tree this year, as economists worry that tighter credit standards will put the brakes on consumer spending in the new year.
Consumers flashing credit cards have gotten the holiday shopping period off to a relatively good start since they pushed away from the Thanksgiving dinner table last Thursday.
ShopperTrak RCT Corp., which monitors sales at 50,000 retailers, estimates that total sales rose 8.3 percent to about $10.3 billion on Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving. And online retailers are believed to have broken one-day records for traffic and sales on so-called Cyber Monday, as they logged in for more than $700 million in purchases.
But when their credit card bills start coming due early next year, consumers could face problems they haven't had to address in years, as the credit crunch puts a squeeze on additional spending going forward.
$100 oil and the 'S' word Is it growing demand and tight supply, or merely rampant speculation that has pushed crude to record highs? NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Greed is driving oil prices to $100 a barrel.
That's a common feeling among the general public, which sees record profits for investment banks that bet on oil prices - making wealthy oil companies even wealthier - while drivers shell out $3 and more for a gallon of gas.
Greed.. greed Who and where have I heard that word mentioned before. Hummm....
Oh and citi got a 7 billion bailout from a foreign country... nice huh? SELL SELL AMERICA SELLL!!!!
Citigroup-Abu Dhabi deal: A sign of the times Sovereign wealth funds are looking to park more of their $2 trillion with U.S. companies. NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Citigroup's newfound $7.5 billion cash infusion from Abu Dhabi's state investment fund may not cure all that ails the embattled bank, but it heralds the growing influence of sovereign wealth funds.
With similar government-owned funds swimming in cash, more iconic U.S. firms like Citigroup may find themselves owned, at least in part, by foreign governments.
Sovereign wealth funds, which act as a country's investment arm, have long been investing money gained through exports or from the sale of commodities such as oil.
But because of their rapidly expanding size, these funds have become harder to ignore.
Located both in the oil-rich Middle East, as well as other nations such as Russia and Singapore, the funds' combined assets under management are expected in the next three years to quadruple in size to $7.9 trillion from $1.9 trillion, according to Merrill Lynch.
While government debt like U.S. Treasuries have long been their investment vehicle of choice, the funds' appetites have grown more complex as they have searched for greater returns, said Jay Bryson, global economist at Wachovia Corp.
I like how you posted yesterdays loss but not todays gains.
12958.44
+215.00
+1.69%
YTD +497.73
+3.99%
Dont push your job off onto me you slacker, get off your ass and contribute something but dont expect me to do what you should be doing. Pullo your weighto Phranco
Originally posted by madcurl: I hope somebody was buying on the dip? The four horseman are up and running.
Three of my four horsemen are up and running. AAPL, RIMM, GOOG. LFC and CSCO is moving upward, but slowly. Dumped FXI @ 180. Nice chunck of $$$ if you got in $64 or even $120. I'm still scared of the finaicials especially Citi (C) even though that over-seas prince jump-in and is bailing out (C).
You people have turned this into nothing else but the stock market reports. That was never what I said or intended. The housing market is going down the tubes and taking a lot of other things with it.
You want to keep running off at the mouth about the stock market go for it.
It was never just about the stock market.
But then what do I know, I just started the thread.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
The economy, is it good or bad. Are we headed into a recession? I see on the one hand the stock market is taking a dive,
Stocks Plunge; Dow Down More Than 310
Email this Story
Jul 26, 6:33 PM (ET)
By JOE BEL BRUNO  (AP) Trader Peter Tuchman rubs his head as he works or the floor of the New York Stock Exchange,... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} NEW YORK (AP) - Wall Street suffered one of its worst losses of 2007 Thursday, leading a global stock market plunge as investors succumbed to months of worry about the mortgage and corporate lending markets. The Dow Jones industrials closed down more than 310 points after earlier skidding nearly 450. Investors who had been able for months to largely shrug off discomfort about subprime mortgage problems and a more difficult environment for corporate borrowing finally decided it was time to sell after the Commerce Department issued another disappointing home sales report.
By ALEX VEIGA  (AP) A home is offered for sale in Riverside, Calif. Monday, July 23 2007. Mortgage defaults in... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} LOS ANGELES (AP) - The national housing slump could lead to billions of dollars in losses for Wall Street investors as it drags on for at least another year and mortgage defaults increase, economists said Thursday. The outlook on eroding credit quality in the U.S. mortgage market by Moody's Economy.com anticipates that more than 1.2 million first mortgage loans will default this year and another 1.3 million will follow next year. That compares with about 900,000 defaults last year and about 800,000 in 2005, Mark Zandi, the Web site's chief economist, said in a conference call. Hedge fund investors will lose between $100 billion and $125 billion as a result, he said.
"We do expect losses in the subprime market to be very severe," Zandi said
Yet the government says everything is doing great.
Economy Growth Is Best in a Year
Email this Story
Jul 27, 9:14 AM (ET)
By JEANNINE AVERSA  (AP) A newly constructed home waits for an owner in Bainbridge Twp., Ohio on Thursday, July 26, 2007. ... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} WASHINGTON (AP) - The economy snapped out of a lethargic spell and grew at a 3.4 percent pace in the second quarter, the strongest showing in more than a year. A revival in business spending was a main force behind the energized performance. The new reading on gross domestic product, released by the Commerce Department on Friday, marked a big improvement from the first three months of this year, when economic growth skidded to a near halt at just a 0.6 percent pace, the slowest in more than four years.
Look at the last line of the first post I started this thread with. It asks what you think, not who is stupid because of their opinions.
o·pin·ion
o·pin·ion [ə pínnyən] (plural o·pin·ions) n 1. personal view: the view somebody takes about a certain issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment In my opinion it’s all a waste of time.
I read a report last week that the GDP growth for 08 was downgraded from a 2.5 to a 3.5% gain to a 1.5 to 2.5% gain. The article seemed to hint at the possibility that lowering that projection further would cause mass hysteria facilitating a huge market sell off.
It's interesting to think if that were the case what the real projections are... Like to be a fly on that wall. BUT what they hell, I'm used to being swatted at.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: Look at the last line of the first post I started this thread with. It asks what you think, not who is stupid because of their opinions.
Wow, you guys are still here? ste.stu. sta. stoooped.
Is that a surprise? The market, both stocks and commodities, is a major indicator of what the economy is doing, good or bad.
To further exasperate things, anytime Bill could find ANY piece of negative news, he posts it. Others countered. Snapshot of today:
Crude Oil Prices: "Light, sweet crude for January delivery plunged $2.64 to $91.78 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Oil futures fell more than $3 a barrel on Tuesday, and are more than $7 below the record price of $99.29 set last week."LINK
With Crude Oil prices falling, gasoline and heating oil prices will also eventually drop. Don't expect miracles to come overnight, though. Here, our gas prices have dropped about 15 cents since the week before Thanksgiving. This is good news and makes people feel better going into a high retail purchase period like Christmas. If the drops stick, and I think they will because conversely to the stock market, the Oil price is way overbought, then it will mitigate any downtrend in the economy.
Stock Market: :NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks jumped on Wednesday as hopes for a Federal Reserve interest cut boosted financial services companies for a second day, while falling oil prices eased concern about higher energy costs. The surge put Wall Street on track for its biggest two-day advance in 4-1/2 years."LINNK
The market closed right at 340 points higher for today, 550 points higher than the close (lowest in 7 months, the headlines screamed) Monday. That's a 4.3% increase in 2 days. The quote above is a gross oversimplification. Moves like this come when the market is too far one way or the other. Just as there can be a "boom" bubble, with everyone wanting in In IN there can be a down bubble with everyone wanting out Out OUT. Money can be made just as easily in a down market as an up market if you're brave enough to speculate and sell it short, that is, sell stock you don't own. When it goes against you, if the market goes up, you can lose serious money very fast, and the short sellers today were doing just that. So what to do? Liquidate their short positions and hope to ride the wave up to recoup some losses by buying long. Yes, this can also reverse just as fast. Such is the life of the speculator as opposed to the investor.
Other factors played in as well. Citi had a large infusion of capital yesterday from outside sources. This signals that there is money waiting on the sidelines for an opportunity to buy and the banking sector has taken a beating lately, much of it now undervalued.
The crap mortgage market in the form of sub-prime loans and risky interest only loans is for all intents and purposes gone. Let's face it, a lot of people bought homes that couldn't afford them under normal circumstances or bought higher value property they couldn't afford. That's not going to happen again soon so, guess what? "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. economic growth slowed in October and the first half of November as a glut of homes for sale pushed home prices down and tighter credit took some would-be buyers out of the market, the Federal Reserve said on Wednesday. "LINK This part of the downside isn't over yet. It started about 6 months ago and will take at least another 6 months to get put back to some kind of normalcy. While it causes the banks problems, you also have to remember that for the last several years banks have been making money in record amounts, so most will be able to weather the storm. Some will not. They won't just go away, though, they'll be absorbed by other, stronger banks. It happens every so often, and will continue to happen.
There is going to be a lot of volatility ahead in the markets. The housing market in some areas, particularly the east and west coasts, is going to be pretty tough with defaults high. Don't think that is nationwide, though. In our area, with more local banks, we have never had really loose credit. I talked to my banker a couple of weeks ago and his default rate is no higher, or lower, than it has been the last few years because they wouldn't even write an ARM loan. All he offered was fixed rate. The stock market will fall down to close to that 12,750 mark again, probably before the first of the year. It has two big gaps to fill and it WILL fill them. If you go back to 1935 at the low, the market will have to drop below something like 7,500 before the long term uptrend in the market is broken. Can it do that? You bet. Will it? Doubtful. Just don't think it can't. A more realistic support line is a trend dating back to 1982 and that would break the long term trend at something around 10,800, the last time I looked. If it cracks that, and closes below it, then I'll be worried about the long term health of the market. Until then, no major trends have been changed.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
You people have turned this into nothing else but the stock market reports. That was never what I said or intended. The housing market is going down the tubes and taking a lot of other things with it.
You want to keep running off at the mouth about the stock market go for it.
It was never just about the stock market.
But then what do I know, I just started the thread.
Look at the last line of the first post I started this thread with. It asks what you think, not who is stupid because of their opinions.
o·pin·ion
o·pin·ion [ə pínnyən] (plural o·pin·ions) n 1. personal view: the view somebody takes about a certain issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment In my opinion it’s all a waste of time.
Don't know where you read that, I've been reading just the opposite.
quote
The US dollar, equity markets, and Treasury yields could stand to gain as annualized GDP for Q3 is expected to be revised higher on Thursday. Indeed, initial estimates were already strong and showed that expansion accelerated 3.9 percent from 3.8 percent in Q2, as exports, consumption, and business investment picked up the slack of a collapsing home construction sector. This time around, Q3 GDP is forecasted to be revised to a four-year high of 4.9 percent as the US trade deficit unexpectedly narrowed in September amidst broad weakness in the dollar and record export demand. However, personal consumption is forecasted to be revised down to 2.8 percent from 3.0 percent, which may serve as a reminder that the American consumer – who fuels two-thirds of the economy – faces major hurdles in Q4 as record high gas prices, falling home values, and a shake-up in the financial markets plagues sentiment.
I haven't seen any projections for '08 from the Government for anything over 3% increase in a LONG time. Maybe it was an old article?
quote
The new Fed central projections for 2008, updated since the last issuance in June, added to the Dollar’s needy state. Real GDP growth projections were lowered to 1.8% to 2.5% from 2.5% to 2.75%, inflation projections were reduced and “financial markets [were still viewed] as fragile and [susceptible] to an adverse shock such as a sharp deterioration in credit quality or the disclosure of an unusually large and unanticipated loss [that] could further dent investor confidence and significantly increase the downside risks to the economy”.
I honestly think most of the bad news on the credit issues are out there. Enough time has passed that the required filings have been made and analysts have had ample time to look them over. A bigger issue, to me, is what will happen in Iran, but that's nothing that can be predicted at this time. Also keep in mind the Fed is generally a pretty pessimistic body and before the first of THIS year were predicting growth (due to high oil prices) of less than 3%. It looks like annualized it will be closer to 3.5% or more, but that remains to be seen.
John Stricker
Edited because I forgot the second link...........
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill: I read a report last week that the GDP growth for 08 was downgraded from a 2.5 to a 3.5% gain to a 1.5 to 2.5% gain. The article seemed to hint at the possibility that lowering that projection further would cause mass hysteria facilitating a huge market sell off.
It's interesting to think if that were the case what the real projections are... Like to be a fly on that wall. BUT what they hell, I'm used to being swatted at.
[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 11-28-2007).]
Originally posted by madcurl: Three of my four horsemen are up and running. AAPL, RIMM, GOOG. LFC and CSCO is moving upward, but slowly. Dumped FXI @ 180. Nice chunck of $$$ if you got in $64 or even $120. I'm still scared of the finaicials especially Citi (C) even though that over-seas prince jump-in and is bailing out (C).
Wow! The DOW is up....all of the four horsemen are up and running hard!
For the last time this is not just about the stock market. Anyone who invests in the market had better be able loose it and walk away.
The state treasurer in Maine here just lost 20 million dollars of state money on bonds purchased. That were backed by something to do with the sub prime mortgage.
State loses $20 million on risky investment
Wednesday, November 21, 2007 Two of Maine's highest ranking political leaders are demanding change in the way the state invests tax dollars after an investment linked to subprime mortgages tanked.
Gov. John Baldacci is among those reacting to the loss of $20 million invested by Maine into a short-term, high risk offshore fund called Main-Sail Two, WGME TV reported Tuesday.
The state made the investment in August at the recommendation of brokers at Merrill-Lynch, Channel 13 reported.
That fund was largely backed by subprime mortgages - loans made to people with questionable credit that's led to the collapse of the real estate market and a record number of home foreclosures. Main-Sail Two defaulted and is unable to pay back the $20 million invested by the state.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The economy grew at a slower pace in the late fall as shoppers watched their pennies heading into the busy holiday season. The Federal Reserve's new snapshot, released Wednesday, suggested the strains from a severe housing slump and a painful credit crunch are affecting the behavior of individuals and businesses alike — making them somewhat more cautious.
For the last time this is not just about the stock market. Anyone who invests in the market had better be able loose it and walk away.
The state treasurer in Maine here just lost 20 million dollars of state money on bonds purchased. That were backed by something to do with the sub prime mortgage.
State loses $20 million on risky investment
Maybe we can get the UAE to cover some of the states losses.
If your mind is made up that we're heading for a recession, then why did you ask for opinions? Or did you just want opinions of those that agree with you?
Sorry about the State of Maine losing the money. Did the treasurer make the decision or did he have a money manager do it (and I'm not talking about the people at Merril). A few years ago, the state of KS lost a huge chunk of money from the employee retirement fund. Heads DID roll and the fund is now much better managed (and making money). I'm curious what checks and balances Maine had in place for something like this, sounds like not much oversight.
I hardly think that's going to bring down the economy of the state of Maine, though, much less throw the US into a recession.
While you may keep saying it's not about the stock market, 80% of the people in the US ARE invested in the stock market both individually or through their retirement funds. It also indicates sectors that are doing well and those that are doing poorly. You simply can't discuss the economy without mentioning the market. Get used to it.
Gasoline is right now about 65 cents higher than one year ago, not a dollar. But I suppose that's one way of looking at it. No, that's not good for the economy and I don't like to pay it any more than you do. Keep in mind, though, that they get about 19.5 gallons of gasoline out of a 42 gallon barrel of oil. Oil is trading today at about $92, so there is $2.17 worth of oil in every gallon of gas without any refining, transportation, or profit figured in. Gas isn't coming down a whole lot until oil gets back to that $70 level or so. Before you say that won't happen, don't count on it. Commoditiy prices, ANY COMMODITY, is cyclical. Oil was nearly this high historically a couple decades ago and people thought then it would never come down either. It did. It will again.
It's also interesting that a while back, everyone was yelling about how all the other currencies were doing so well as opposed to the US Dollar. Strangely silent lately, aren't they? Wonder why? With the exception of the Euro, the dollar has been coming back pretty strong since it's lows back the first week or so of November.
Sure, there are things going on that are not good for the economy. There are also things going on that ARE good for the economy. It's all a question of balance. Always has been.
Personally, I see slow growth through the first half of '08. A recession means negative growth in the GDP for two or more consecutive quarters. That's not going to happen, I don't believe. If you think it's going to happen then you need to conserve cash because inflation appears to be marginal at best and into the forseeable future and if a recession DOES come about, cash will be king in picking up bargains. It already is in the housing market in some areas, but that's not the only thing that drives the economy.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
For the last time this is not just about the stock market. Anyone who invests in the market had better be able loose it and walk away.
The state treasurer in Maine here just lost 20 million dollars of state money on bonds purchased. That were backed by something to do with the sub prime mortgage.
State loses $20 million on risky investment
Wednesday, November 21, 2007 Two of Maine's highest ranking political leaders are demanding change in the way the state invests tax dollars after an investment linked to subprime mortgages tanked.
Gov. John Baldacci is among those reacting to the loss of $20 million invested by Maine into a short-term, high risk offshore fund called Main-Sail Two, WGME TV reported Tuesday.
The state made the investment in August at the recommendation of brokers at Merrill-Lynch, Channel 13 reported.
That fund was largely backed by subprime mortgages - loans made to people with questionable credit that's led to the collapse of the real estate market and a record number of home foreclosures. Main-Sail Two defaulted and is unable to pay back the $20 million invested by the state.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The economy grew at a slower pace in the late fall as shoppers watched their pennies heading into the busy holiday season. The Federal Reserve's new snapshot, released Wednesday, suggested the strains from a severe housing slump and a painful credit crunch are affecting the behavior of individuals and businesses alike — making them somewhat more cautious.
Originally posted by jstricker: If your mind is made up that we're heading for a recession, then why did you ask for opinions? Or did you just want opinions of those that agree with you?
John Stricker
I'm sure he didnt post to argue with people but rather discuss his topic.
Not really, since they don't have a controlling interest. If they had purchased a controlling interest in it, then I'd have a lot more problems with the transactiong, but they really can't do that since the banking system in the US is regulated such that they can't. We live in a global economy Bill, get used to it, it's not going away.
John Stricker
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Originally posted by 84Bill:
John... how do you feel about the Citigroup-Abu Dhabi deal?
Does the idea of a Bank which holds title to 7.5 billion dollars worth of America's soil trouble you any?
Originally posted by jstricker: We live in a global economy Bill, get used to it, it's not going away.
John Stricker
I asked for an opinion, not coaching.. but thanks for not being concerned about trivial matters such as hocking America to the highest bidder.
By the looks of things this is the start of a new chapter in American... :clears throat: Sorry John.. I forgot America doesn't exist anymore, I mean global economics.
The state made the investment in August at the recommendation of brokers at Merrill-Lynch, Channel 13 reported.
Just to clarity.
I wanted opinions, yes from both sides but not harassment from the likes of Aceman and others. I by no means think of any of your posts as harassment John.
I value alls opinions unless they try to degrade me for my opinion.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
The state made the investment in August at the recommendation of brokers at Merrill-Lynch, Channel 13 reported.
Just to clarity.
That's pretty much what happened with the State of KS KPERS fund several years ago. However, if you look hard enough (and don't think the papers will tell you who this is) you'll find the state had SOMEONE under the treasurer responsible for those investments. I don't blame the brokers at Merrill, I blame a very poor money manager that didn't do the proper research and followed their advice.
In KS, the individual and his staff were fired and a complete overhaul of the system went into place. I'd wager the same thing will happen in Maine in the very near future. I do have to wonder, though, except for retirement, what is a STATE doing with $20 million to invest? IMHO, that means the collected at least $20 Million too much in taxes.........
Middle class feels the squeeze Rising costs of health care, housing, and education are forcing middle-class families to work harder and longer, says a new report.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Middle-class households in America have to work harder than ever to maintain their standard of living, according to a report released Wednesday.
Sixty nine percent of middle-class households are at risk of losing their standard of living in the long term, says Demos, an advocacy group for lower and middle-class Americans.
And the rising costs of health care, housing, and education are forcing middle-class families to work harder to maintain that standard, said Jennifer Wheary, the report's co-author in an interview with CNNMoney.com.
"The way that they have stayed secure is by tightening belts," said Wheary. "People now have to work more hours to be at that same level."
Demos defined middle-class households as those whose income is approximately between $40,000 and $129,000 (based on a family of four), whose head of household is between the ages of 25 and 64, and excludes those who held more than $500,000 in net financial assets (the top one percent).
The Demos report is designed to measure the financial health of the American middle class by measuring certain key variables.
If their main source of income dries up, only 13 percent of middle class households can live off their assets for nine months, after reducing basic living expenses by one quarter, estimates Demos.
52 percent have no net financial assets at all after debt (excluding home equity), and live paycheck to paycheck.
The average middle-class family is carrying $8,328 in personal debt, which includes credit card debt, student loans, vehicle loans, and medical debt, according to the report. The cost of essential living expenses like health care, housing costs and educational expenses is rising higher than both the rate of inflation and the incomes of most families.
"All these things add up to higher bars that people need to climb over," said Wheary.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Middle-class households in America have to work harder than ever to maintain their standard of living, according to a report released Wednesday.
Oh noes !!! They can't buy flat screen TVs. They may have to forgo luxuries to pay down debt from buying luxuries they couldn't afford to begin with. Woe is them, woe is them. No more new Lexus. Maybe if they lived with in their means they wouldn't be feeling the "squeeze".
quote
Sixty nine percent of middle-class households are at risk of losing their standard of living in the long term, says Demos, an advocacy group for lower and middle-class Americans.
And those other 30% have made sure they can survive by planning and living with in their means.
so, rising prices & not rising wages their fault?? hmpf, never woulda thunk it. you could say "get a better job". but, now - is there really room in the workforce for 60% of the population to "get a better job"? maybe you should just step back, and stick with "it dont affect me none" and shut up. fine, we get it - your impervious.
so, what is the secret to getting gas & electricity at lower rates? can you please enlighten the rest of us, who have to buy it at market price? as far as I can tell, the only answer is to use less.
Who and where have I heard that word mentioned before. Hummm....
