if it is to be sold in the USA it must be made to USA standards - which include disability, min. wage, EPA, FDA & OSHA

quote Originally posted by lurker: the unions are a part of the problem. there was a time when they were the solution, when workplaces were very dangerous, and the workers were paid just enough to keep them alive for another shift. there was a reason they were called "wage slaves". unions helped change that, and it was good. however, in the last 30 years unions have gotten out of control.

Steve, you know I am not a Union hater but the fact is, unions have management also. I do not contest your claims that management did the Big Three automakers in. I submit the same thing has happened to unions. Bad management. With the approval of the union members. See, as you have said, every union deal has to have the vote of every union member. Not so with auto companies. Every worker does not have a say in management. Though I could not argue it, an argument can be made that union workers bought whole heartedly into union socialism. At the expense of the companies. I do believe that unions also had a part in killing unionized businesses.
That said, I would like to get a union started in the oil fields. What lurker said is just about true with the oil fields. We do make more than enough to barely stay alive but, . Safety came from insurance companies forcing OSHA to mandate rules.
I ask, how is it that things can be made for less over seas? I can not give an answer but only venture to guess. Mostly because people will work for less. But shipping will jack up that offset. Cheap materials and quality help support import products. So do lax safety rules. I guess many things do. The number one thing is the cost of living. Here and there. Well, the cost of living and personal pride. We will not work for less. The fact is, a Fiero will only sell for what people will pay for it. America is a throw away society. I do not know the exact definition of "third world country" but I think America is well on the way. Life here that depresses people would be a welcome life all the world over. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with not accepting life. We don't have to.
I would think that our initial products were not that good. We had to perfect the process, improve quality control, build the better mousetrap. Consumer backlash helped. So did seeing the competition get better and make more money. History repeats it's self. Back to the cost of living. As more and more people are out of work they will be able to afford less and less. Which will drive down the cost of living.
Into another thought...America is great in part to capitalism. A part of freedom. I am glad to see this spread throughout the world. Nothing speaks like money. One man, one vote, one dollar.
I guess I could add that Vodka is imported. Even though I don't drink Vodka, I spent $20.00 last night finding out I would rather have my potatoes mashed, . Thinking about it, my Schlitz, my Crown Royal, my Jack Daniels, they are all imports.
Steve, this post is not directed at you. Just your belief of Union haters.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Jack Daniels, they are all imports.

that's odd, the distillery is about 20 miles from me. true, sometimes middle tennessee seems like a foreign country, but we still use the same postage stamps and money as you guys....

As with anything I buy, I choose it individually based on its reputation, or if I think it has quality, not what store it is in.

In general I think it is not a bad thing for our country if we buy foriegn items, as long as teh foriegn countries keep buying items we make.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: As with anything I buy, I choose it individually based on its reputation, or if I think it has quality, not what store it is in. In general I think it is not a bad thing for our country if we buy foriegn items, as long as teh foriegn countries keep buying items we make.

That's the problem, they don't buy our stuff. GM that I know of is/has built a Buick, Caddy, and Chevy plant in China instead of shipping the cars in from here. As far as I remember, China tells US what to do when it comes to consumer goods. We keep taking in more and more from there openly, but the government fights to get a 1% increase in what we can ship there and lower tariffs? You want to stop the problem? Stop the ships that deliver goods from China! Because, remember, Kids! When you buy things made in China, you're supporting Communism!

Everyone complains about cheap foreign products and jobs in the US going overseas until they look around their houses and remember back 30 years ago or so....

How many TV do you have in your house? I now have 4. When I was growing up we had 1 color (lasted 15+ years) and one black and white. TVs were expensive back then.

How many computers do you have in your house? I have 5 computers. When the computers started to really come out 15 years ago, they were $2000-$3000. Gateway...Built in North Sioux City, SD! Now....they're $500-$1000 per computer.

I can go on with a list. We have become a nation of wanting all of this technology and material goods at a cheap price and more of it. Yet, everyone wants to make $50,000-$200,000/yr, from the unskilled laborer to the highly skilled doctor. So if you want to correct all this wrong, then we need to suck up the pay cuts to everyone and realize we don't need more than 1 of all these items. Sometimes we don't even need some of the items we have. But, the US is a proud and materialistic country and we'll continue down the path we're on.

the USA does have exports, besides technology.
the biggest one is food. also, we have steel/iron.
but, these sure dont outdo the imports.
people cry about the "national deficit" - yet every chinese item they buy adds to it. nickel & dime the nation.

oh, and while we are at it - how y'all feel about chinese being the new "world language"?
it is happening. they are now no longer learning english to converse with us. english became the "wolrd" language, because to do business, you needed to learn english. china is now expecting people to speak their language. the largest problem right now is chinese pilots. the front of the chinese wave. airports around the world now need chinese speaking controllers - or not service the chinese. being the world indusrial powerhouse - you dont want to NOT service the chinese. so. learn the language. run by mexicans, dominated by muslims, and speaking chinese. welcome to the new millenium.

has the US done anything right/good in the new millenium? have we got anything to stand up for? any source of pride? last great thing that comes to mind is the Space Shuttle. and thats pretty weak. alaska pipeline was a mighty venture.

Most of what we have to stand up for is freedom. We still live in the best country for that. Corruption is our problem, China has plenty of that to go around too.

Another example of an American company outsourcing and what happens.

Fisher-Price to Recall Nearly 1M Toys


Email this Story

Aug 1, 7:51 PM (ET)

By ANNE D'INNOCENZIO and NATASHA T. METZLER

(AP) Fisher-Price toys subject to recall including Birthday Dora, bottom, and Prince Diego,' top, are...
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p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;}
WASHINGTON (AP) - Toy-maker Fisher-Price is recalling 83 types of toys - including the popular Big Bird, Elmo, Dora and Diego characters - because their paint contains excessive amounts of lead.
The worldwide recall being announced Thursday involves 967,000 plastic preschool toys made by a Chinese vendor and sold in the United States between May and August. It is the latest in a wave of recalls that has heightened global concern about the safety of Chinese-made products.


http://apnews.excite.com/ar...70801/D8QOHPNG1.html

These are small children’s toys, children that will put this toxic crap in their mouths.

Still feel the same about overseas products when your kids are involved.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I dare you. Go 1 week without buying anything made in China. Seems simple, no? It's virtually impossible.

The plastic containers your strawberries come in? China.
Fluorescent light bulbs? China.
80% of Vitamin C in the form of ascorbic acid is imported from China. Used in a lot of drinks and as a preservative.
Fish? A lot is imported from China.

I would bet 100%, yes, ALL electronics has at least some Chinese components in it.

You are probably going to read this on a Chinese monitor, type on a Chinese keyboard, and click reply on a Chinese mouse.

"But Ryan! I have a MICROSOFT mouse! So there! Made in the U.S.A. with mexican labor "

WRONG. Try again.

My apple juice is made in China with apples from China, Chile, Argentina, America. Yes we export apples to China to make reconcentrated apple juice to import back into America.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I dare you. Go 1 week without buying anything made in China. Seems simple, no? It's virtually impossible. The plastic containers your strawberries come in? China. Fluorescent light bulbs? China. 80% of Vitamin C in the form of ascorbic acid is imported from China. Used in a lot of drinks and as a preservative. Fish? A lot is imported from China. I would bet 100%, yes, ALL electronics has at least some Chinese components in it. You are probably going to read this on a Chinese monitor, type on a Chinese keyboard, and click reply on a Chinese mouse. "But Ryan! I have a MICROSOFT mouse! So there! Made in the U.S.A. with mexican labor " WRONG. Try again.

Not for me,

My strawberries are home grown, here on the farm.

No florescent bulbs,
No vitamin C here,

When I eat fish, it’s fish I caught here in Maine,

As far as computers, that I will give you, but I try to buy things that were made here when ever possible.

You should try it, makes you feel better every time.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Try buying it from local growers, helps your local economy and is better for you than concentrate.

Lets see do I buy four 64 oz. bottles for less then $5 or a gallon of cider for $8 that I can't get year round ( mind you I do love the cider and buy it but its only around in late fall) . Keep in mind I go through 8 bottles a weak. And Maryland doesn't exactly have a massive apple farming sector. And my local economy is better served by me saving money on something not produced locally so I can spend more of my money on things that are locally produced.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: people cry about the "national deficit" - yet every chinese item they buy adds to it. nickel & dime the nation.

Please explain this.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Please explain this.

first - what is a "deficit"? it should explain itself

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: first - what is a "deficit"? it should explain itself

There is a difference between A deficit, in the generic sense of the word and THE deficit in regards to the US economy. The National Debt is the amount of money we owe, ostensibly on our USA "Credit Card". The amount that number grows each year is called the deficit.

So when you refer to the "national deficit" I'm with Formula on this one. How does spending money on a product made in China increase the deficit? Trade relations and debt are two different topics. But it is true that we do have a trade deficit with China that is not getting any better.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-02-2007).]

thae depends on what the meaning of the word "is", is.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 08-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: So when you refer to the "national deficit" I'm with Formula on this one. How does spending money on a product made in China increase the deficit? (But it is true that we do have a trade deficit with China that is not getting any better.)

quote Originally posted by Toddster: (But it is true that we do have a trade deficit with China that is not getting any better.)

I put quotation marks on the part of your own statement that is the explanation Pyrthian was looking for.

Why do you have to make yourself look right all the time, and try and make everyone else look wrong?

every time someone buys something made in Chins when they could buy the same product made in USA. You increase the deficit with China, and the same goes with any other product that you can buy made in USA.

Or did that not sink in?

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I put quotation marks on the part of your own statement that is the explanation Pyrthian was looking for. Why do you have to make yourself look right all the time, and try and make everyone else look wrong? every time someone buys something made in Chins when they could buy the same product made in USA. You increase the deficit with China, and the same goes with any other product that you can buy made in USA. Or did that not sink in?

Dear douche bag,

In the first place Pyrthian's post about the "national deficit" being related to the purchase of Chinese Products is just plain wrong. I do not know if he just used the wrong term or had the wrong concept. Either way I simply corrected it. As for my trying to make myself look right all the time you must be the only one on this forum who doesn't know I am currently working on a Masters Degree in Economics. This is my area of specialization so unless you have some special experience here perhaps you should do less talking and more reading.

Now stop behaving like a child. Everytime you try to one-up me on a thread about economics the entire forum rolls their collective eyes as if they were watching some obnoxious kid trying to tell Barry Bonds how to swing a bat.

K?

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Dear douche bag, In the first place Pyrthian's post about the "national deficit" being related to the purchase of Chinese Products is just plain wrong. I do not know if he just used the wrong term or had the wrong concept. Either way I simply corrected it. As for my trying to make myself look right all the time you must be the only one on this forum who doesn't know I am currently working on a Masters Degree in Economics. This is my area of specialization so unless you have some special experience here perhaps you should do less talking and more reading. Now stop behaving like a child. Everytime you try to one-up me on a thread about economics the entire forum rolls their collective eyes as if they were watching some obnoxious kid trying to tell Barry Bonds how to swing a bat. K?

mostly wrong concept....I dont know exactly what "the deficit" actualy specificly is, it just seems that buying more than selling would make it worse?

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I am currently working on a Masters Degree in Economics.

Yeah, right. Prove it.
SEND MONEY, .
j/k...umm, no I am not, send money.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Dear douche bag, Now stop behaving like a child. Everytime you try to one-up me on a thread about economics the entire forum rolls their collective eyes as if they were watching some obnoxious kid trying to tell Barry Bonds how to swing a bat. K?

OK Turdster what ever your educated ass says, you are always right about everything you have ever said.

The lord Turds whim.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Yeah, right. Prove it. SEND MONEY, . j/k...umm, no I am not, send money.

Well I would but the first thing I learned in economics was a line in a Pink Floyd Song, "Keep your hands off of my stack"

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-02-2007).]

who effin cares?

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-21-2007).]

bill for you to call some one out on shallow and it being all about me me me is just side splitting hilarity.

Shallow is bragging about being on welfare and me me me me is saying that welfare is owed to you. And its shallow and me me me me when you call the same people you leech off of sheeple slaves. Go surf in a shark school bill.

quote Originally posted by Jack Bag Phranc: bill for you to call some one out on shallow and it being all about me me me is just side splitting hilarity.

Well.. thats because you are a moron and morons think everything is funny.

quote Shallow is bragging about being on welfare and me me me me is saying that welfare is owed to you. And its shallow and me me me me when you call the same people you leech off of sheeple slaves. Go surf in a shark school bill.

Let be realistic for a moment Mr PhrancEinstein.. can you do that? It's an "entitlement" Are you with me? Can you grasp the concept Phrancis?

If you were entitled to recieve something... like say... Money... are you honestly going to tell me that YOU are going to say, "no thanks."

If thats the case your daddy definatly didn't beat you enough....

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Let be realistic for a moment Mr PhrancEinstein.. can you do that? It's an "entitlement" Are you with me? Can you grasp the concept Phrancis? If you were entitled to recieve something... like say... Money... are you honestly going to tell me that YOU are going to say, "no thanks." If thats the case your daddy definatly didn't beat you enough....

Call it what you want bill your a welfare sucking loser who lives at home with his mom as a grown man. But I'm the moron. If you were so smart you'd be gainfully employed and living on your own. Does it make you feel special talking about my dad beating me? Maybe if yours had beat you some you wouldn't be the sorry pathetic sack of worthless loser you are today bill.

http://www.onestopahead.com/onestop/welfare/

Bill, This site says that welfare in FL is NOT an entitlement. Just pointing out your skewed view.

quote Originally posted by Scumm Sucking Jack BagPhranc: Call it what you want bill your a welfare sucking loser who lives at home with his mom as a grown man.

As I stated before.. you have serious issue with me having a great relationship with my parents becasue you never had it.. I feel for you but dont hate the player, hate the game.

quote But I'm the moron.

And a scum sucking jack bag mental midget who could care less for the down trodden and less financially fortunate members of YOUR society.

quote If you were so smart you'd be gainfully employed and living on your own.

I take what is offered and that is not in any way a stupid thing to do... Its a smart thing to do.

quote Does it make you feel special talking about my dad beating me?

There is a way to avoid all this... now that you mentioned it.
No, no more special than me getting what I'm entitled to and you beating on me for soing so...

quote Maybe if yours had beat you some you wouldn't be the sorry pathetic sack of worthless loser you are today bill.

Jesus ...
Phranc.. go make another hundred grand.. then maybe daddy will love you.....

While you are doing that my father and I will be at the airport putting the finishing thouches on our family's American Yankee AA1

Oh bill your so pathetic. Welfare isn't an entitlement or a gift your putz. You go fix your daddy's plain bill while you should be out getting a job.

As for being a scum sucking jack midget or what ever that creative string of words was you put together and the false insinuation I don't care. Tell me bill how many people have you given a job to? How much did you give to charity? How many inner city youth sports teams did you buy uniforms for bill? Yeah I didn't think so.

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 08-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by aceman: http://www.onestopahead.com/onestop/welfare/ Bill, This site says that welfare in FL is NOT an entitlement. Just pointing out your skewed view.

Title 19 is a federal entitlement program which includes among other things foodstams and cash asistance... All persons who qualify are ENTITLED to the services offered by title 19. There is also a Title 21 which covers healthcare and assistance for shildren under the age of 19.

Be glad I don't know you bill. You'd lose that welfare right quick.

Its nice you gave a few bucks bill. But it wasn't really yours was it bill. It was the slave sheeple who payed that man back and help that other guy. If you had an honest job you could give more. But what do I know bill I'm an evil scum sucking dumbshit scum sucking bla bla bla bla bla bla.

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 08-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Lazzy Scumbag Phranc: Be glad I don't know you bill. You'd lose that welfare right quick.

Jesus what a tool... Grow the hell up Phrancis.. stop being so damn angry. It's going to be the end of you one day.

quote Its nice you gave a few bucks bill. But it wasn't really yours was it bill.

Umm Yes.. it was... I dont steal from people, I'm not a robbin hood. I give what I have of MINE to others of my own free will. Seems to me whenever I reply to your questions all I get is more bull effing crap from you. Goes to show that your intentions are never meant to prove me a better person but only to serve you and your disgusting slimey little ego trip.

You are a scumbag Phranc.. plain and simple. I understand why.. You were beaten and abused as a child but thats no excuse to treat people (me in particular) the way you do. Get help!

quote It was the slave sheeple who payed that man back and help that other guy.

Just get back to work.. I need more money to move around.. damn whiners....

quote If you had an honest job you could give more.

If there was an honest job to be had that paid an honest wage we wouldnt be discussing this topic ya dikhead!

Greedy fat fingered cigar puffing CEO's making 3000 dollars an hour are sucking up all the cash leaving noting but dribblings for the masses WHO MAKE HIM THAT MONEY is the problem people like me are facing. I cant get an honest days PAY for my work ya dickface!

quote But what do I know bill I'm an evil scum sucking dumbshit scum sucking bla bla bla bla bla bla.

It's about time you finally realized it Mr. PhrancEinstein.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-02-2007).]

Its funny you keep saying I'm the one with the anger problem bill and the whiner. Do you even think before you post? Whine some more about people who make money wile you suck up you food stamps bill. Keep calling all the colourful names you can bill. Keep saying I was beaten and abused bill all does is show I don't use it as a crutch like you would to cry about the man and having to get off your worthless loser butt and work for a living.

The only problem you face is your a loser who is to lazy to work but will blame every one else. And thanks for using all the inappropriate curse words bill it really hammers home your point and shows your mature mental prowess.

quote Originally posted by Looser Boy Phranc: Its funny you keep saying I'm the one with the anger problem bill and the whiner.

Thing is I fight to help the down trodden, the disadvantaged, you fight to belittle them, call them nasty names and make them feel worthless and theres a big big difference.

quote Do you even think before you post?

Why? so I can be more politicly correct? No... I say what I feel and if you dont like it pissoff, dont ask or just keep your BS to your self. Open up your crap to public opinion and your going to get exactly what I feel, like it or not. If you address me directly, use dispariging remarks or disparage me directly you're going to get your face rubbed in your own poop pile.
I dont care one way or the other.

quote Whine some more about people who make money wile you suck up you food stamps bill.

I wouldnt need them if the scum sucking fetted fingered money whores who run the business and this country would share SOME of it. But they dont... They need that 3000 dollars per hour for their 300 foot yatchs and fully paid month off to golf on the French Rivearia every other month. That may be a slight exaggeration but the pay rate sure as hell isnt.

My ENTITLEMENT is 150.00 a month.. so cry me a god blessed river you scumm bag creap.

quote Keep calling all the colourful names you can bill. Keep saying I was beaten and abused bill all does is show I don't use it as a crutch like you would to cry about the man and having to get off your worthless loser butt and work for a living.

You use money and success as the crutch.... It's your compensation for the lack of affection from your dad.. I had problems with my dad too but I forgave him and we got through it. I'm a very forgiving as well as giving person Phrancis.

quote The only problem you face is your a loser who is to lazy to work but will blame every one else. And thanks for using all the inappropriate curse words bill it really hammers home your point and shows your mature mental prowess.

I'm not lazy. Though I do lounge out and sleep till about 5 or 6pm and rack out at about 3 or 4 am... Some daze I just lay on the beach and watch the babes. Hooked up with this cutie blonde just last week. Life is rough. Now get back to work and make me my money Phranc.

BATTErieS IN MY CODLESS keyboard are getting low

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-03-2007).]

Ohhh I see whats going on now... I missed the bruhaha with 84fiero123

So...ScumBag Mr. PhrancEinstein got tired of 84fiero123 and decided to move onto someone else. Phranc you really are a slimey POS. It bothers me to say that on this forum but the way you treat people is thoroughly disgusting.


If I were 84fiero123 I'd be asking for this thread to go to the can... but then again thats probably what you want becasue you hate it when people talk bad about the way this county and business are being run and the scumbags like you who run them.

Maybe if you had a job bill you could afford to buy a clue. To read that last bit of retardedness was just what I needed to brighten my morning. You're so dumb its comical.