"Nick, read over your last five posts as if for the first time. Is this the same kind-hearted softie who starts a new thread in O/T and cries everytime his dog farts?"
Pretty obnoxious. And probably where you earned the neg you got from me. It certainly wasn't this thread.
What, you don’t agree that Nick is a “ kind-hearted softie” ?
I’m actually glad you linked to that thread, and pointed out that particular post. Yes, I admit I went out on a limb with that comment. It was addressed to a forum member here, Nick, who I like very much. He and I are kind of internet buddies, and we’ve often joked back and forth in the forums as well as exchanged PMs. However, I was genuinely surprised (and disappointed) by Nick’s comments in that thread. I wanted to say something that would get Nick’s attention. I realize I put no kind of a “smiley face” along with the question which I addressed to Nick, but in all honesty, it was meant as somewhat of a joke. (Nail me to a cross, but keeping in mind the many posts Nick has made concerning his dogs, I still think it’s funny.) I believe Nick has forgiven me, so I don’t understand why something I addressed to Nick, and to Nick alone, should continue to be an issue for anyone else.
Raydar, if you give negative ratings for every perceived “obnoxious” statement posted in these forums, you must’ve handed out hundreds of them over the years.
You say that you made the comment because "I felt it was newsworthy that a pregnant 17 year old girl was participating in armed robbery. " Then you turn around and say " Sorry if it wrecks the illusion of some 6'5" 350lb muscle-bound guy being handed his ass.". I'm sorry man, but those two statements together give me the right to form an opinion of what you meant.
Sure John, but you’re conveniently ignoring the post immediately before my second comment which I was addressing:
quote
Originally posted by DtheC:
And do you believe that she gave a damn about her unborn child? Strike one, hanging with these creeps. Strike two, getting out of the car. Strike three, trying to subdue a marine who has a knife and is trained to use it. Or maybe they needed the money for prenatal care?
And as I’ve mentioned numerous times now, I was also making reference to the “Rambo” heading of the original news story.
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
You are a very left wing liberal.
I don’t believe that’s a fair comment. Please read my comments addressed to Gonsai on the previous page.
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
You rarely miss an opportunity to tell us poor dumb Americans how we're doing it wrong. That, my friend, is a fact based on your posting history. That fact definitely adds a certain slant to your original post, whether you want it to or not.
I take great exception to that. In this thread alone, it’s been discussed how I’ve debated with ex-Brits living in Spain and even with fellow Canadians. Am I supposed to ignore all Americans on the forum because of..... because of what? That would be pretty tough to do considering the vast majority of forum members are American.
John, do you really believe that all I’ve ever done is post how YOU (as one of the “poor dumb Americans”) is “doing it wrong”. If so, how do you explain the following post from This thread:
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
John, interesting post. Doesn't apply much to the soil in my neck of the woods, but I enjoyed the read.
And to go back a lot farther, how about what I said to Johnny about something he had stated to you in This thread:
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
That's a little different than feeling it's necessary to get up from the table if grace is being said. I don't agree with John Stricker too often, but (in the unlikely circumstance!) if you and I were guests at John's for dinner and you got up and left the table while grace was being said, I'd help John kick your ass to the curb. Is it because I share John's religious beliefs? No, I don't. However, I do know a little about showing respect. Pulling a stunt like you suggested you'd do would be a real slap in the face of your host. A total lack of respect.
Apologies to Johnny for dredging this up, but I wanted to demonstrate that a person’s nationality has nothing to do with any “slant” that I might add to my posts.
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
To be frank, I personally think a lot of what you've written since has been a load of BS...
But whatever, that's your choice, you've attempted to explain what you meant and I take you at your word.
Well, it would seem to me as though it would have to be one or the other.
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
Patrick, you and I have debated often. Be honest, when I post something, do you or do you not have a pre-conceived notion of my political stand?
John, I’m aware of your political and religious leanings. However, I don’t pre-judge you to any great degree every time I read one of your posts. I hate to shock you, but I actually respect what you have to say. Knowing what your stand has been on certain issues in the past may help explain why you post what you do, but honestly, it doesn’t preclude me from appreciating what you currently post in this forum.
And It gets very old having to read people are attacking the rating system...
Cliff, are you referring to this post?
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
That's potentially one of the flaws in the rating system in this forum. Rock the boat enough, even in a completely civil manner, and conceivably you could lose the opportunity to post and voice an opinion here.
I was suggesting that voicing a minority opinion here and being negatively rated was “potentially one of the flaws in the rating system, and conceivably you could lose the opportunity to post and voice an opinion here”. (Please note the words in italics.) Do you regard that as me “attacking the rating system”? If so, I’m sorry you feel that way.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
If most people disagree and only a few agree, then you are still right but people are ganging up on you and there are only a few sane people. Right? Rrrrrright.
Cliff, get with the program. Don’t you rock the boat now. You should’ve closed with -
“If most people disagree and only a few agree, then you are still left but people are ganging up on you and there are only a few sane people. Left? Lllllleft.”
Raydar, at the top of this page I responded to you in a respectful manner. (I don’t know why I bothered now.) You made absolutely no mention of anything I stated to you. Instead, you just gave me another shot. Fine, carry on...
Originally posted by Patrick: Raydar, at the top of this page I responded to you in a respectful manner. (I don’t know why I bothered now.) You made absolutely no mention of anything I stated to you. Instead, you just gave me another shot. Fine, carry on...
Yes. Yes you did. I posted just after you. That post was about the DNA thread that you felt the need to "kwrap up".
The thread that I quoted, that you responded to me about, sounded like a rather cold hearted cheap shot at Nick (whom I have never spoken with outside of this forum, but respect and admire greatly, nevertheless). If he took it as a joke, that's fine. It still pissed me off. But let's let that one particular phrase go for now. Shall we?
After rereading the rest of the thread in question, it appears to me that you were trying to give Nick the same snow job in that thread that you're trying to give us, here. Nick was just too polite to unload on you. That's his prerogative. Many of the rest of us are getting damned tired of you.
Just to refresh everyone else, I'll share another of your "gems" from the same thread.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick: I’ve been away for a few days but I’ve now returned to clean up a few loose ends. It looks as though there’s at least one end here that needs a good wipe, and that end is attached to UDLOSE. I notice his latest contribution to this forum has it’s usual stink to it.
Nice visual. Thanks for that. Then you continued...
quote
Nick, I still think you’re a good guy (honest I do), but I don’t agree with very much (probably nothing) that you’ve stated in this thread. So much so, that it’s not worth the time or effort to debate it all...
"...that it’s not worth the time or effort to debate it all."
You condescending ass! After kwrapping up the thread, you then have the nerve to imply (while seemingly looking down your nose) it's not worth your trouble to continue? But nevertheless, you do. (It appears to me that you enjoy hearing yourself talk.)
Thanks, yet again, for further illustrating my case.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-05-2006).]
Many of the rest of us are getting damned tired of you.
I had no idea you’ve been made an official spokesperson for others at this forum. Congratulations.
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Just to refresh everyone else, I'll share another of your "gems" from the same thread.
That’s really sweet of you, Raydar. You post my response to UDLOSE, but of course you don’t bother quoting his post which led to it, or acknowledge that there’s a history of his “obnoxious” (if I can borrow a term from you) posts in these forums.
You seem terribly concerned with what I say to others. More so than even they appear to be. Tell me, are there problems at home?
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
It appears to me that you enjoy hearing yourself talk.
You must enjoy it as well, judging from how much you continue to try and bait me in this thread.
I'm sorry if I don't take several hours and read through links to a thread 6 pages long where you said something in reference to Johnnyk and myself. I just don't have time. I also don't have time to go back through and re-read this thread and if I did have time, I'd put it to better use.
I made my post for one reason, Patrick, and that was to try to explain why people took offense to your post to begin with. That's all. No other reason.
Your first post was a simple, one line, ambiguous post. Whether you think you are or not, you're posts by and large are extremely left leaning whenever political subjects come up. Not always, the world isn't something that's absolute, but by and large.
When you make a one line amibiguous post, and you've been on a forum (or friends with someone) that knows your various leanings and general opinions, ambiguous posts are taken in a certain way, if you intended them to be or not. I didn't say that one's mind couldn't be changed, in fact I said I took you at your word after 3 pages of clarifications, but the initial understanding of the line was already there and to a large degree it was there because you left it there, Patrick.
You said "Just to keep some perspective on this, it was a pregnant teenage girl who was killed." That's it. Nothing more. From that we're supposed to get that you don't disagree with the ex-marine for defending himself, you agree the girl was wrong in trying to rob him, but that it was a tragedy that a teenage girl (believed pregnant at the time) was killed.
That's not a post, Patrick, that's a soundbite a politician would use so he could weasel out of it later.
In my opinion, you are a very left wing liberal. You may not be for Canada. You may not even be for New York. But in comparison to ME, you are a very left wing liberal. You believe in nationalized health insurance. You believe in abortion on demand. You believe in a strong welfare state. All of these are off of my memory and if I have them wrong please correct me and I'll apologize, I simply don't have time to sift through posts for an hour or more.
I also never said you ALWAYS bashed the US. I said "You rarely miss an opportunity to tell us poor dumb Americans how we're doing it wrong." And that's accurate. That's OK with me, we DO a lot of things wrong, but it does put your posts in a certain slant to the reader because you have been here a long time. If you want to avoid that, then I'd suggest actually posting responses (like the one you responded to me with) instead of soundbites. No, you're not supposed to ignore the US when mentioned in posts. You're not even supposed to agree with what goes on down here. You're missing the point. The point is that your years of responses have given people that have been here on the forum for a long time a definite idea of who you are based on them so when you write a one line ambiguous post don't be surprised if it's interpreted a certain way, as your post that started all this was.
What I meant when I wrote the BS line was it sounded a great deal like a politician trying to cover his a$$ and therefore, a load of BS. That doesn't mean it is, just that it sounds like it. You explained your intent and, as I said, I'll take you at your word on that. I respect what you have to say. Your posts are NORMALLY thought out and articulate. From time to time you throw out a one liner like you did here. Sometimes I think it's to get a controversey brewing, maybe it's just that you felt lazy that day.
When you throw a one line ambiguous post out there and you have a posting history, Patrick, people are going to interpret it in a certain way. You would too. It's how the human mind works. That doesn't mean the mind is closed, it means that the poster hasn't given the reader enough information to come to the correct understanding of what they're trying to say. Don't blame others for not properly interpreting a post in which you don't give enough information to understand what you meant.
John Stricker
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
John, I’m aware of your political and religious leanings. However, I don’t pre-judge you to any great degree every time I read one of your posts. I hate to shock you, but I actually respect what you have to say. Knowing what your stand has been on certain issues in the past may help explain why you post what you do, but honestly, it doesn’t preclude me from appreciating what you currently post in this forum.
Originally posted by Patrick: I had no idea you’ve been made an official spokesperson for others at this forum.
Never claimed to be. Read the other responses. It's quite obvious (without those blinders) that many people other than myself are tired of you. I'd ask you to get a clue, but I'm certain that you already know, and just don't care.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-05-2006).]
Just remember that those were Patrick's stance AS BEST AS I REMEMBER THEM If my memory is in error, Patrick, I'll be more than happy to correct/remove anything that's in error and apologize in advance.
Cliff does an outstanding job archiving forum threads, and the Search function here works well.
I have no idea what “abortion on demand” has to do with this thread, but you should have no trouble finding out my opinions on such matters if it's really bothering you.
... many people other than myself are tired of you.
And many people aren’t. So...? Is this a popularity contest? What do we win?
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
I'd ask you to get a clue, but I'm certain that you already know, and just don't care.
You’re correct Raydar, I absolutely do not care what you think anymore.
I had no idea you were so full of venom. All these years we’ve both been members of this forum, and I can’t recall once that you and I had any direct confrontation with each other. Now all of a sudden it appears that you can’t stop slagging me. Go ahead, get it out. Maybe it’ll make you easier to get along with at home.
Come on Pat, it would have taken you less time to type a simple "Yes" or "No" that it would have to avoid the question.
If someone believes that it is okay for a woman to terminate the life of her unborn fetus, why be shocked at the notion of an unborn fetus being killed through other means? Isn't it still just a lump a cells and tissue?
Originally posted by Patrick: You’re correct Raydar, I absolutely do not care what you think anymore.
Not that you ever did, I'm guessing. Not really.
quote
I had no idea you were so full of venom. All these years we’ve both been members of this forum, and I can’t recall once that you and I had any direct confrontation with each other. Now all of a sudden it appears that you can’t stop slagging me. Go ahead, get it out. Maybe it’ll make you easier to get along with at home.
We've never had a direct confrontation because you've never pissed all over one of my threads before. You've said lots of stuff, over the years, that has annoyed me, that I've just brushed off because I wasn't involved. Then you come in this thread and make an ambiguous statement, and act all pouty when several people "misinterpret" what you said. Based upon earlier threads to which you contributed, I'm not so sure that it was such a bad "misinterpretation" at all. Whatever.
I've had my say. I'm done. The original point of this thread was made useless anyway, days ago. Thanks. Have the last word, if you must.
Your kidding me? If he's pro-choice, that means he can't be upset that a pregnant girl died? Really grasping for an argument aren't you? You know she was planning on having an abortion? Empathy can't be felt because your pro-choice? Holy **** you're either ****ed up, or stupid as hell.
I know, and no problem. I really regret putting that line about "abortion on demand" in there. I wasn't thinking about it in reference to this particular thread, to be honest, more as an overall indicator of leaning left, or right. I should have used a different example. I in no way meant it that because you do (or don't) support a pro-choice agenda that you couldn't feel saddened by the death of a fetus.........that kind of thinking is just plain nuts.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
...and John, I'm not ignoring your post, but I'll have to deal with it later.
If someone believes that it is okay for a woman to terminate the life of her unborn fetus, why be shocked at the notion of an unborn fetus being killed through other means?
For the life of me, I cannot comprehend why you continue to harp on this topic. I expressed no emotion one way or another at any time in regards to this girls’s “unborn fetus”. All I ever stated was that it was a pregnant teenage girl who was killed. And then you stated the following:
quote
Originally posted by BN Boomer:
Good. Sounds like that 2 dirts bags our society won't have to support and be victimized by.
That has got to be one of the most disgusting things I have EVER read in this or any forum, referring to an unborn fetus as a “dirt bag” that “our society won't have to support and be victimized by” ! Yet no one has commented on that. Not even Raydar, who was totally freaked out by my comment to Nick about his dogs passing gas.
Then you come in this thread and make an ambiguous statement, and act all pouty when...
You can describe my behavior in this thread in any number of different ways, but I assure you that being “pouty” isn’t one of them.
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Not that you ever did, I'm guessing. Not really.
I respect everyone and whatever they have to say initially until they prove to me I was mistaken to do so. To suggest that I’ve never cared what you’ve stated in this forum is not only incorrect, it’s also rather sad. People with such beliefs usually suffer from very low self-esteem, and that’s not something I care to make light of. I’m being serious, but do with my comments as you wish...
Originally posted by Patrick: You can describe my behavior in this thread in any number of different ways, but I assure you that being “pouty” isn’t one of them.
Before I "policed" my post, it was going to read "butt-hurt" instead of "pouty". I chose to keep it civilized. Thanks for noticing.
quote
I respect everyone and whatever they have to say initially until they prove to me I was mistaken to do so. To suggest that I’ve never cared what you’ve stated in this forum is not only incorrect, it’s also rather sad. People with such beliefs usually suffer from very low self-esteem, and that’s not something I care to make light of. I’m being serious, but do with my comments as you wish...
My comment was more a reflection of your attitude. Not my self-esteem which is just fine, thank you very much. As is my home life. I stand by my previous "condescending..." statement.
Your kidding me? If he's pro-choice, that means he can't be upset that a pregnant girl died? Really grasping for an argument aren't you? You know she was planning on having an abortion? Empathy can't be felt because your pro-choice? Holy **** you're either ****ed up, or stupid as hell.
That has got to be one of the most disgusting things I have EVER read in this or any forum, referring to an unborn fetus as a “dirt bag” that “our society won't have to support and be victimized by” ! Yet no one has commented on that. Not even Raydar, who was totally freaked out by my comment to Nick about his dogs passing gas.
Refering to a lump of cells and tissue that would likely evolve into a a dirtbag like it's parent disgusts you?
I'm sorry if I don't take several hours and read through links to a thread 6 pages long where you said something in reference to Johnnyk and myself. I just don't have time.
John, I don’t understand that comment at all. I saved you the time by posting the relevant passage right there in plain view. It couldn’t have been any easier for you.
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
....but the initial understanding of the line was already there and to a large degree it was there because you left it there, Patrick.
Are you suggesting I should’ve deleted it? If so, I don’t agree with doing that at all. I don’t believe in re-writing history. I’ll stand or fall with what I’ve posted. I hate it when people alter (not counting grammar or spelling changes) or delete their posts. That’s the coward’s way out. Either apologize for what was stated if a change of mind has occurred, or stand up and defend one’s comments. I chose the latter.
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
Don't blame others for not properly interpreting a post in which you don't give enough information to understand what you meant.
You said "Just to keep some perspective on this, it was a pregnant teenage girl who was killed." That's it. Nothing more. From that we're supposed to get that you don't disagree with the ex-marine for defending himself, you agree the girl was wrong in trying to rob him, but that it was a tragedy that a teenage girl (believed pregnant at the time) was killed.
That's not a post, Patrick, that's a soundbite a politician would use so he could weasel out of it later.
Do you not find it fascinating that from my one simple comment, so many people would jump to the assumption that I was suggesting the Marine was a “murderer”, that the girl was a “victim”, and that the “unborn child” was somehow a pawn in all this? I was certainly amazed. Am I at fault because several people decided (using their own discretion, as adults) to choose the worst possible explanation for my comments? Is it really necessary to write an essay (like this) every time we post? Are you suggesting that I originally had no intention of clarifying the issue if asked?
By my third post (the 15th post of the thread) on the first page, I made my feelings quite clear. Wasn’t that good enough? I guess not. We’re currently at five pages and 193(!) posts and some people are still trying to tell me what I meant. Humans are strange creatures...
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
I also never said you ALWAYS bashed the US. I said "You rarely miss an opportunity...”
Splitting hairs John, splitting hairs...
John, I appreciate that you’ve remained civil through all this. I understand your point of view. We may not agree on much, but I continue to respect what you have to say. Let’s just leave it at that. I’m sure we’ve both got better things to do after all this...
Refering to a lump of cells and tissue that would likely evolve into a a dirtbag like it's parent disgusts you?
I find completely writing a person off from the moment of conception based soley on the legal/social status of one parent to be more blatantly stupid than disgusting, but the fact that you would be so cold and cynical about a unique life that had no chance to establish itself in any way is rather disgusting.
I find completely writing a person off from the moment of conception based soley on the legal/social status of one parent to be more blatantly stupid than disgusting
Yes, I'm sure the odds that a child nurtured by a violent criminal will grow up into a responsible, law abiding citizen are pretty great indeed.
quote
but the fact that you would be so cold and cynical about a unique life that had no chance to establish itself in any way is rather disgusting.
Do you feel that same way about the millions of fetuses aborted in this country?
which fight are we talkin 'bout? I wonder if the ex-marine would have reacted differently if the girl was visibly preagnant. Doesn't matter now. I think those who go out with the intent of assaulting someone else shold expect to perhaps be met with equal or greater force. Just because it wasn't the cops this time, it is more noteworthy.
[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 06-06-2006).]
Fascinating? No. Confusing, certainly. I do think that your original intent was to SLIGHTLY make a victim out of the person that died, only so far as (at that time) an innocent life, the fetus, had been lost in all of this. It turned out that there actually WAS no fetus, but unless you've been bestowed with some kind of clairvoyance, you had no way of knowing that. I didn't detect any notion that you were trying to make the ex-marine into a murderer. Say what you want though, he IS a killer. Justified, IMHO, but a killer nonetheless. Nobody probably is aware of that more than he is, from the sound of the article.
I also think that you intentionally made it a one line, ambiguous post to stir the pot and, again, have to say that you shouldn't be too shocked that some members jumped all over you for it. Outraged and angry, OK, but not shocked. You've been around long enough to know that when you post something like that exactly what is going to happen. It's not necessary to write an "essay", but how about something to the effect of
"You know, the girl killed was young and pregnant. That doesn't excuse her actions, but it's a tragedy that something like this had to take place on a lot of levels. I'm all for the Marine protecting himself. However, it seems unfortunate to me that as a "civilized" society we can so easily shrug off the stabbing death of a pregnant teenage girl. It's an ugly event from any angle."
Something like the above is just three lines and yet is perfectly clear what you meant, Patrick. It doesn't have to be an essay, but it does have to convey enough information to allow the reader to understand you fully, otherwise you're going to get exactly what this thread has become.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Do you not find it fascinating that from my one simple comment, so many people would jump to the assumption that I was suggesting the Marine was a “murderer”, that the girl was a “victim”, and that the “unborn child” was somehow a pawn in all this? I was certainly amazed. Am I at fault because several people decided (using their own discretion, as adults) to choose the worst possible explanation for my comments? Is it really necessary to write an essay (like this) every time we post? Are you suggesting that I originally had no intention of clarifying the issue if asked?
While I do see Patrick's point now, it did seem he was more interested in the argument that what he was trying to say. Maybe that's my fault, but that's what it seemed like.
It was a tragedy that she was killed. Only insofar as it's tragic whenever a life is lost at such a young age or thrown away by becoming a criminal. I don't have much sympathy for her because she was a criminal.
John mentioned that the marine is a killer. To me, that is the greater tragedy. We don't know if he ever killed anyone in the service, but regardless he has now taken a human life. He has to live with that. He was made a killer not by his own choice, but because of the actions of a criminal. Put in a "kill or be killed" situation, he really had no choice.
)
Yet no one has commented on that. Not even Raydar, who was totally freaked out by my comment to Nick about his dogs passing gas.
I do think that your original intent was to SLIGHTLY make a victim out of the person that died, only so far as (at that time) an innocent life, the fetus, had been lost in all of this. It turned out that there actually WAS no fetus, but unless you've been bestowed with some kind of clairvoyance, you had no way of knowing that. I didn't detect any notion that you were trying to make the ex-marine into a murderer. Say what you want though, he IS a killer. Justified, IMHO, but a killer nonetheless. Nobody probably is aware of that more than he is, from the sound of the article.
