Am I the only lucky one? Cliff, if you are reading this, I hope it is good enough reason for permanent banning.
Now, normally I am against posting stuff that comes in private mail but since this guy has chosen to break every rule of good ettiquete, I don't see any harm in posting what he has to say...
From: Bookster2771@aol.com [mailto:Bookster2771@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 3:20 PM To: songman@bak.rr.com Subject: bookster
Well since you and a few other ass wipes think I have made a come back Good luck. I have spoke to the z guy and in fact I sold him the z34tdc as for the v8 stuff he wants other opinions other than mine so yes he is not to happy with me so eat **** and harass anther to death you and your Archie kiss asses
I don't know how I will face myself in the mirror from now on. I have hurt the booksters feelings and business... Yeah right! Like this sleazy e-mail is really going to make me think that it was a potential customer of his coming on here in every thread and defending him... Whatever.. I only wish he had been a little more abusive so I might have had enough reason to turn him in to AOL too... His e-mail address is now on Norton and MailFrontier as spam.
Anyone else that gets this, please post here and let us know... Was I really the ringleader in this? haha
Send AOL a copy of his email to you. I think it could be considerred harrasment, it also looks like he is about to be banned again under his new username here (Fieroz34tdc). Check out this thread: //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/046164.html
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 10-05-2004).]
While I recieved an e-mail from him (which I am not going to post here), his email to me was very civilized. That being said, I am not inclined to defend him as I don't share his views or uphold in any way any of his posts having to do with Archie.
I think it's time for this issue to die. Songman, you're a very old member here, and extremely capable of being well-mannered and having very good etiquette. A forum role model, so to speak. Just let it go.
Send AOL a copy of his email to you. I think it could be considerred harrasment, it also looks like he is about to be banned again under his new username here (Fieroz34tdc). Check out this thread: //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/046164.html
Let it go man. You always complain about the 'bleeding heart liberals'.. Don't turn into what you hate.
I wasnt' on his side. I could care less. If you noticed I never posted in that whole archie and him fiasco. I could haev cared less.
just an FYI
SH
------------------ JM / SH I am The Punisher and I approve this message Opinions are like ‘The Punisher” everyone has one ™ Member of the Redbar Brigade
Honestly, I didn't even look at the picture you posted until just now... Whenever you and the 'red bars' become the pulse of Pennock's then I'll worry about the crap ya'll try to stir up...
As for why I made the post, I've already explained that.. And I figured Cliff needed to know to...
This is front page NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who fuggin cares
quote
Originally posted by donk316:
Oh wow! Are you gonna be ok? Do you need a hug?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this so, I gotta ask, Are you 2 guys just trying to be funny or are you really just a couple of jerks trying to get booted again?
It appears that all you want to do is run around to different threads & show everybody why you were voted off in the 1st place.
It's not just you 2 guys, there are several others, but I gotta ask, When is the last time either one of you posted anything to a thread that was actually useful?
It appears that you 2 (or 3 whatever you are) don't really pick on anyone in particular, it seems you just go around & try to disrupt as many threads as posible. I see you insulting Cliff & taughting him. After we voted you off, Cliff overrules the wishes of the Forum & lets you back on. Yet, he's the guy you try to insult.
What gives? What is the point? When does it Fu<kin end?
Cliff, I've got something to say to you too:
Several times the members of this Forum have taken it upon themselves to remove certain members & you've seen fit to let many of them back on. Something about free speach & allowing the Forum to police it'self. Sure 1 or 2 of them have straightened themselves out and become good members. But most of them come back and continue with the actions that got them voted off in the 1st place. Some of them even see fit to break every forum rule they can & then when you enforce the rules and remove some of their GIF's or pictures, they have the nerve to insult you while asking why you did it.
With due respect, My question to you Cliff is, When are you gonna get enough balls to stand up to these people & boot them?
In this thread they've come on and 'dissed a respected member, & no one is here to protect that member. When does it Fu<kin end?
You've stated that running this Forum is stressful, I would submit that you bring much of that stress yourself.
Stand up for yourself, boot the bastards & have it over with already. If they can't learn some respect by getting booted the 1st time, then it's time to cut them loose to go terrorize another Forum.
To the rest of the Forum members: How many of you are Fed-up & are not gonna take it anymore?
Why should we sit still & watch as these guys ruin every thread on the forum with their crap?
Now I'm sure the Red brigade is going to come after me, but I'll bet that everyone of them already has given me a (-) so come ahead on boys. But I'll forcast that this is the beginning of the end for you if you continue on the path you've chosen.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 10-05-2004).]
I just don't personally see the big deal. It's a public forum. Insults are going to be said.. I don't think it's anything to go and try to start a revolution about..
I know I'll get a negative or two, but I feel pretty much the same way. The Punisher has actually said a few relevant items during his time here, but overall (like 99%) he's acted like a jerk to everyone. I'm pretty much sick of seeing that. Punisher, you might know somethings, but honestly, you're a POS.
------------------ Christian Thomas 87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd Latest Mod: Poly Rear and Coilovers (HMS 350#)
First, thanks Archie.... I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a problem with troublemakers changing names and coming back to act the same way again....
Johnny... I just have one question for you... What did I do in this thread that should have been insulted? Can you honestly not see that it is always the same few people causing problems on this forum for people who are just here trying to enjoy the forum, and also following the rules so others can also enjoy it.
I just don't personally see the big deal. It's a public forum. Insults are going to be said.. I don't think it's anything to go and try to start a revolution about..
But when it's the same people with pretty much the same insults, over, and over, and over, it gets old.
You did nothing to get insulted.. And I know it gets old, but I mean, so do the constant political threads (and I mean CONSTANT).. Which I'm trying to ignore to thebest of my ability, but I mean, who really cares.. I get insulted on here all the time. Do I really insult anyone on here.. Nope.. maybe some perceive it as that, I don't know.. All I mean is, it's just words over the internet.. Don't waste your time making a big deal out of it.. I bet I take things more personally on here than anyone, but I try to let them go..
So now youre questioning how Cliff runs HIS forum?
If this BS was spewed from any other source, I know that person would be jumped on.
I say we use the the rating system to boot frauds and not for personal vendettas.
quote
Originally posted by Archie:
I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this so, I gotta ask, Are you 2 guys just trying to be funny or are you really just a couple of jerks trying to get booted again?
It appears that all you want to do is run around to different threads & show everybody why you were voted off in the 1st place.
It's not just you 2 guys, there are several others, but I gotta ask, When is the last time either one of you posted anything to a thread that was actually useful?
It appears that you 2 (or 3 whatever you are) don't really pick on anyone in particular, it seems you just go around & try to disrupt as many threads as posible. I see you insulting Cliff & taughting him. After we voted you off, Cliff overrules the wishes of the Forum & lets you back on. Yet, he's the guy you try to insult.
What gives? What is the point? When does it Fu<kin end?
Cliff, I've got something to say to you too:
Several times the members of this Forum have taken it upon themselves to remove certain members & you've seen fit to let many of them back on. Something about free speach & allowing the Forum to police it'self. Sure 1 or 2 of them have straightened themselves out and become good members. But most of them come back and continue with the actions that got them voted off in the 1st place. Some of them even see fit to break every forum rule they can & then when you enforce the rules and remove some of their GIF's or pictures, they have the nerve to insult you while asking why you did it.
With due respect, My question to you Cliff is, When are you gonna get enough balls to stand up to these people & boot them?
In this thread they've come on and 'dissed a respected member, & no one is here to protect that member. When does it Fu<kin end?
You've stated that running this Forum is stressful, I would submit that you bring much of that stress yourself.
Stand up for yourself, boot the bastards & have it over with already. If they can't learn some respect by getting booted the 1st time, then it's time to cut them loose to go terrorize another Forum.
To the rest of the Forum members: How many of you are Fed-up & are not gonna take it anymore?
Why should we sit still & watch as these guys ruin every thread on the forum with their crap?
Now I'm sure the Red brigade is going to come after me, but I'll bet that everyone of them already has given me a (-) so come ahead on boys. But I'll forcast that this is the beginning of the end for you if you continue on the path you've chosen.
As long there's the internet, they'll be your flamers, red bar brigades and so on and so fourth. The only reason they do it here is because they can't get away with acting this way anywhere else but the internet. Just ignore them completely, they'll get bored and go away.
This thread was about if any other people got e-mails from bookster right? So did anyone else?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious about this so, I gotta ask, Are you 2 guys just trying to be funny or are you really just a couple of jerks trying to get booted again?
It appears that all you want to do is run around to different threads & show everybody why you were voted off in the 1st place.
It's not just you 2 guys, there are several others, but I gotta ask, When is the last time either one of you posted anything to a thread that was actually useful?
It appears that you 2 (or 3 whatever you are) don't really pick on anyone in particular, it seems you just go around & try to disrupt as many threads as posible. I see you insulting Cliff & taughting him. After we voted you off, Cliff overrules the wishes of the Forum & lets you back on. Yet, he's the guy you try to insult.
What gives? What is the point? When does it Fu<kin end?
Cliff, I've got something to say to you too:
Several times the members of this Forum have taken it upon themselves to remove certain members & you've seen fit to let many of them back on. Something about free speach & allowing the Forum to police it'self. Sure 1 or 2 of them have straightened themselves out and become good members. But most of them come back and continue with the actions that got them voted off in the 1st place. Some of them even see fit to break every forum rule they can & then when you enforce the rules and remove some of their GIF's or pictures, they have the nerve to insult you while asking why you did it.
With due respect, My question to you Cliff is, When are you gonna get enough balls to stand up to these people & boot them?
In this thread they've come on and 'dissed a respected member, & no one is here to protect that member. When does it Fu<kin end?
You've stated that running this Forum is stressful, I would submit that you bring much of that stress yourself.
Stand up for yourself, boot the bastards & have it over with already. If they can't learn some respect by getting booted the 1st time, then it's time to cut them loose to go terrorize another Forum.
To the rest of the Forum members: How many of you are Fed-up & are not gonna take it anymore?
Why should we sit still & watch as these guys ruin every thread on the forum with their crap?
Now I'm sure the Red brigade is going to come after me, but I'll bet that everyone of them already has given me a (-) so come ahead on boys. But I'll forcast that this is the beginning of the end for you if you continue on the path you've chosen.
Archie
I <3 The Punisher!
Archie, you really should follow the doctor's orders and keep on the medication.
------------------
quote
Originally posted by shop_rat45: It's much better than head cheese.
So now youre questioning how Cliff runs HIS forum?
If this BS was spewed from any other source, I know that person would be jumped on.
I say we use the the rating system to boot frauds and not for personal vendettas.
My admittedly hasty estimate tallys 4 people agreeing with Archie and 0 agreeing with Howard. Further, I count 5 neither agreeing or disagreeing with Archie. Finally, I count 2 disagreeing with Howard. Kinda shoots down your second sentance there.
Really, Cliff's only "problem" is that he's too fair and too nice. He's posted about it before. These people get booted and they start some crusade against Cliff and put is email in for free **** sites and crap and he still gives them more chances. He believes that people can and will change for the better, and unfortunately, besides for a select few, he's been proven wrong.
Some ppl kill me how they get into the whole rating thing, the rating bar is just another word for I am a kiss ars. Everyone knows how is works but most dont say anything in fear that they will get jumped on. The ones that do give there opinion, well they get the gey red bar brigade after them, which is funny to me because it usually turns into grown men acting like little girls(whining). I like the Punisher and there attitudes, they are people who are not scared to give there opinion, worring what others are going to say and if they will get a negative. This is a public forum and by reading and posting on it, you are going to find ppl and opinions that you do not like. But that doesnt give you the right to start crying about giving them a bad rating to try to get them banned. I mean come on, with the interenet like it is today, even if someone does get booted, if wanted, they can be back on the Forum with a new name in less that a day.
Why is any of this crap posted in "General Fiero Chat"? You of all people should know better songman, I mean come on, you have almost 8000 posts. All "drama" should be posted in O/T or not at all. Most people come here to look up Fiero stuff not any of this saga drama crap. That is all I have to say on this.
Originally posted by MstangsBware: I like the Punisher and there attitudes, they are people who are not scared to give there opinion, worring what others are going to say and if they will get a negative.
No, these are people who go out of their way to break the rules and piss people off... Big difference! And they do it because they know there is no sort of consequences for their actions...
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
Why is any of this crap posted in "General Fiero Chat"? You of all people should know better songman, I mean come on, you have almost 8000 posts. All "drama" should be posted in O/T or not at all. Most people come here to look up Fiero stuff not any of this saga drama crap. That is all I have to say on this.
This CRAP is posted in General Fiero Chat because this guy started causing all this CRAP in General Fiero Chat and then started sending e-mails to all of us who called him on his CRAP in General Fiero Chat. This is not a political thread. This is not a thread trying to sell a Honda. This is something that is directly related to this Fiero forum and started right here in this section. And I would think that my almost 8000 posts that you point out would show that I have spent a lot of time here trying to help those people who come here to look up Fiero stuff.
What is amazing is how many people jump on the bandwagon to argue with the people who try to do good here on the forum instead of the troublemakers.
Fu<k here we go again...as you can see I dont have too many posts cuz I keep my mouth shut...but mostly cuz I left for a while cuz there was too much bull **** flying around...I come here when I need help and for the most part most people here are great at giving the help I need! but when the help and bullcrap start mixing it affects me!
The Punisher, no offence to you but you are what I call a "Post Whore"...every post, ya gotta have a say in... like common!!! You registered in July 2004 and you have 816 posts! All I gotta say is WTF! Now I know this is a Forum and you can have you OPINION but geeez just remember that those little useless comments will wreck your reputation...If I wanted to I could go into every thread and post something stupid and get a great post rating but people will still know I’m a post whore and depending on the info I gave they’d still know my intelligence...
Archie, I dont know you but if i were a judge id have to go on your side because this Bookster has NO proof that he has sent **** . ANYONE CAN SEE THIS I didnt have to goto college for Law to see this (well...I got Security and Law diploma ha ha). Again I’m not taking sides here but Bookster has to show some proof. There, end of story...have some proof...come back
MstangsBware, I totally agree with you, opinions are a big part of forums BUT theres a difference between opinions and posting useless crap...Are you suggesting we get rid of the rating bar? Would this solve the "people are afraid of telling it how it is"? I'm just asking because I couldent care if it was there or not but you do got a point. I know for a fact ill probably get a Red line for this...for what? My opinion. I remember SmooothGT got a negative rating as did some of the other membersfor "changing" the fiero. Big wings are a "No-No" on a fiero, haveta give a negative....ewww lights! thats Rice!!!...click the little negitive...thats not what a rating system is for. People that are here regularly know whos who, and who know what there talking about...I dont think we need a little meter to show that.
I apologize for my rant guys and gals but I just hate it when I see the forum getting broken up like this over small things…
I come here because I LOVE fieros and talking to people that share my interests too. I NEVER go into O/T cuz of crap like this...but it somehow got into General Fiero chat so maybe next time ill skip this and just go into Tech. but maybe itll find its way into Tech then where do me and my little fieros have to go
Some ppl kill me how they get into the whole rating thing, the rating bar is just another word for I am a kiss ars. Everyone knows how is works but most dont say anything in fear that they will get jumped on. The ones that do give there opinion, well they get the gey red bar brigade after them, which is funny to me because it usually turns into grown men acting like little girls(whining). I like the Punisher and there attitudes, they are people who are not scared to give there opinion, worring what others are going to say and if they will get a negative. This is a public forum and by reading and posting on it, you are going to find ppl and opinions that you do not like. But that doesnt give you the right to start crying about giving them a bad rating to try to get them banned. I mean come on, with the interenet like it is today, even if someone does get booted, if wanted, they can be back on the Forum with a new name in less that a day.
I gotta disagree a bit here. The ratings, while they may get abused on occasion, are a reflection of what the forum members think of you, or what you think of other members. As Cliff has said before, it's a tool so the group can moderate itself. Yes, we've all got opinions, and many times people don't agree. But it's not the difference in opinion that causes most of the problems, it's how those differences get presented. I've seen a lot of disagreements here that are civil, polite discussions, and others that just turn into flame wars.
Calling an internet forum a society is a bit of a stretch, but it's kind of a mini-society. And all societies have rules of conduct. We may not like or agree with all the rules, but they're there nonetheless. If you're with a group of people in "real life", you tend to have a bit of self-moderation and decorum. But when we get on the internet, sometimes we shut off the filter between our brains and the keyboard.
Really, Cliff's only "problem" is that he's too fair and too nice. He's posted about it before. These people get booted and they start some crusade against Cliff and put is email in for free **** sites and crap and he still gives them more chances. He believes that people can and will change for the better, and unfortunately, besides for a select few, he's been proven wrong.
I appreciate the kind words ("too fair" and "too nice" are compliments in my book), but that isn't the only problem. The problem is that most of the banned members that get back, get back because I didn't "catch" them getting back. Like I've said before, I have a few things in place that help me determine if a new registration is likely a banned member re-registering.
This works pretty well - I would even say that I catch a banned member 4 out of 5 times. Problem of course is that if a banned member tries hard enough, he will eventually get back on.
For instance, "bookster" was banned and he got right back on. I did not catch that. None of the things I have in place raised a red flag. On the other hand, I did catch another member trying to register while his username wasn't banned yet (but very, very close).
Others I let back on if either some period of time has elapsed, or if they show some kind of remorse. "I'm Back" was let back on because it had been quite some time since he was banned (I think it was a few years). "The Punisher" was let back on because he (they) convinced me they would stay out of trouble this time and again because it had been a few years since he was banned.
Others got back on because I never noticed they re-registered. But it's not only my responsibility to catch them. It's yours (the members) as well. I often read these messages on the forum where people are complaining that I let a certain member back on, yet they have done nothing themselves to let me know they were back on. You want to know how many heads-ups I've received the past year from members warning me user "X" is in reality banned member "Y"? One. Yes, a single one.
I just banned the new username of "bookster" yesterday. Not because somebody told me this was in fact bookster, but because I read in a thread somewhere that somebody was complaining I had let him back on. So again, complaining I let him back on but not taking the trouble of emailing or PM me that bookster was in fact back on.
You know, it's easy to point the finger at me for the trouble fomerly banned members are causing. But there are only a very few people here that are actively helping me trying to keep this place clean. And with "helping", I'm not talking about mentioning something in one of the few thousand new messages that are posted here every day. I'm talking about warning me through email or PM if a thread gets out of hand, or if they have spotted a banned member with a new username. Apparantly, people not only expect me to read every single message here on the forum, they also expect me to do a background check of every member that registers. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Ever.
I know it's getting old, but I will say it again. PFF is mostly a self-moderating forum. That means it's your responsibility too to keep this place clean. There are over 10,000 members. PFF is being visited by more than 1000 unique visitors each and every day. At any given day, around 500 members post a message. Yet there's only ONE member that regularly warns me when he sees a thread (or member) getting out of hand.
It's like when an accident happens and none of the bystanders can be bothered to call 911, but everybody complains why it takes so long for the police and paramedics to get there.
You're right, Cliff.. It is our responsibility. Personally, I have only e-mailed you on one such occasion that I know of.. I try not to bother you with things for two reasons, 1) I know you have a family and already give us too much, and 2) I just assumed the software would catch these folks if it was set to do it...
Most of us here I think will give this responsibilty the respect it deserves, while others will obviously take advantage of the 'self-rule' that we have going on here. It is just too easy for a person to be a jerk on an internet forum because there is no real life accountability. And that is a problem that I don't know that we'll ever find a solution for..
Who would have thought. They already picked up the story!!!!
You know, Punisher is ALWAYS insinuating that someone is gay, or, as he puts it, ghey. Why is that important to him? Is he projecting his deepest desires? Hey, Pun, do you have something ya wanna tell us about? C'mon, you can tell us...after all, you're safe behind your keyboard...it's not like any of us can "out" you or anything...
------------------
"He who does not oppose evil, commands that it be done!" ----Leonardo da Vinci
I know it's getting old, but I will say it again. PFF is mostly a self-moderating forum. That means it's your responsibility too to keep this place clean. There are over 10,000 members. PFF is being visited by more than 1000 unique visitors each and every day. At any given day, around 500 members post a message. Yet there's only ONE member that regularly warns me when he sees a thread (or member) getting out of hand.
I'd like to make a suggestion to help encourage people to help out.. next to the (quote) button of each post, have a (REPORT POST) icon.. if a thread or person gets out of hand then people can report it as simply as a little click.. maybe even have them type in a message to give you a heads up whats going on.
They use something like this on ClubRSX and its helped the moderators out a lot.
Check out this thread: 
