This thread is entertaining as hell , I haven't given any negative ratings to anyone becasue of their posts...I hope youi two do get to race...this is the most excitement this forum has seen ina while!!
JM
I agree. It is entertaining and they should race. Like I said, at the track he can request no time shown and it will be a real race witha a staging light and a light when the winner crosses the finish line. Gotta do it, everyone is wanting to see this.
I agree. It is entertaining and they should race. Like I said, at the track he can request no time shown and it will be a real race witha a staging light and a light when the winner crosses the finish line. Gotta do it, everyone is wanting to see this.
NO ETA. See them running this all day long at the track near me.
Woot. my 30 PSI Hobbs switch just got here. Now I just need the upgraded fuel pump, and MSd stuff to try this bottle out.
<sigh> Northstar still smokes. It's parked for the weekend and I'll be taking the Goose (Pontiac 6000) down to FL. Sorry to disappoint.
------------------ Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that comes only from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
Ok we have into oct 8th for this race.... After that date my 4.9 will be getting converted to stick and undergoing a few more mods.... I still might hit the track reguardless so I can prove my ETA with a stock 4.9 powered by a auto th-440.... After that it's getting some nice aftermarket parts to add more ponnies........ This 79 TA turbo is just staring me in the face also But dats going on last.
And no I have not rated anyone on this subject because.... Hopely Punisher will still be active long enough so I can shove my stock 4.9 w auto ETA That will be faster then a mid 14secs down his throat
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 09-03-2004).]
Jonathan/Shaun: You guys GOTTA get seperate UserNames, I'm getting as confused as someone talking to a two-headed psychopath... Jon, you won some ebay auction from me some time ago (door panel) and I remember your F1McCreery website that even got a mention in SCC some time ago. I know you've been doing SCCA for some time, I'm sure you've got the chops to back up what you say. Nice car (I think yours is the Northstar powered number). I remember Shaun being credited with a lot knowlege on the 2.8 by other members but I also understand that GM redesigned the 2.8 into the 3.1 because of the notorious poor oiling of the crank. I can't see how a 2.8 could endure a lot of abuse. Now to be fair, I know some folks can get an undeserved bad rap; I've gotten the opportunity to meet, hang out with and work briefly with Steve Vincent (BVMotorsports) and Garth they took a lot of heat for doing the 4.9 a couple years ago, but I gotta say that car was FAST from the light! And that was before the final gear change and Rockcrawls' chip! No, we didn't take it to the strip, and Steve beat Jesse's 4.9 conversion Steve did for him first (very stock motor/trans but getting some mods now) in his Subaru WRX. Garth is in the process of building "The World's Fastest Naturally Aspirated V6 powered Fiero". No buildup thread, Garth doesn't post, It's going on in the Stealth Performance secret lab in Hampton. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/027460.html We all know there are really NO performance pieces for the 4.9 unless you make them yourself. Steve did Jesse's car I believe for $1600 A turbo on the 4.9 even with just the 2 lbs pressure seems to be a nice way to add top end although I've never been a big fan of turbos. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/042758.html Maybe because the fastest turbocharged cars I ever drove were the 944 turbo when I sold Porsches, BMWs, VW, Mazdas and Audis in the 80's. Of those my favorite was the RX7 turbo witch was really smooth, just not as fast as you'd think. One of my favorite cars was the Mazda 323GTX, all wheel drive turbo-intercooled 5-speed what a hoot! It would run out of power around 85 MPH though but I could take cloverleafs at almost that speed. Anyway, at the track I'm sure a smallblock would be the way to go, just ask Archie. On the street and for my pocket, I'm leaning towards the 4.9. And just like you don't want people knowin' your times (why after all this posturing I don't know) I don't wanna drag race. I just want a car that is going to look good, run good, and let me whup on pretty much anything else on the street in a normal day.
------------------ John DuRette, Custom 85 SE, PFF SUPPORTER
[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 09-05-2004).]
Here. I thought i would overlay just one of my dyno runs against a 4.9 fiero. This was the against the highest 4.9 fiero I could find on that list. Some were much lower but this was the highest/ best power curve from a 4.9 that I could find on the link I posted earlier. I wanted to make this look as best for the 4.9 as I could so I used the best 4.9 dyno. Since the 4.9 dyno was only able to go to 5500 rpm thats where I had to stop my data input. Enjoy.
That's a good comparison. You see where the torque number comes in on the 4.9? That , is where the 4.9 will be gone by the time you get into your powerband. Torque is what gets you moving down the road , and off the line. 1/4 mile runs , the 4.9 will beat you off the line and then you will have to be playing catch-up , and you only have a 1/4 mile to do it. Ya'll go RUN !!
That's a good comparison. You see where the torque number comes in on the 4.9? That , is where the 4.9 will be gone by the time you get into your powerband. Torque is what gets you moving down the road , and off the line. 1/4 mile runs , the 4.9 will beat you off the line and then you will have to be playing catch-up , and you only have a 1/4 mile to do it. Ya'll go RUN !!
One must remember that this dyno wasn't Earl's car. his car could be making less or more then this dyno. Its just a comparo of the best dyno numbers I could find for a 4.9 and the mods for this 4.9 aren't listed. This 4.9 could have been stock or it could have been modified.
YOu also have to remember Ronnie that I am...
1. running a getrag 5 spd so I dont' have to launch just off idle. I hook best at a 3k rpm clutch drop 2. First gear on the getrag is real quick. I will be to 6k rpm in the blink of an eye. 3. my car is lighter then his so it wont' need as much hp/tq to get it off the line as quickly. 4. My car at 5k rpm is making(according to this dyno but remember the car is now making more then this) about 40 more hp. That 40 extra hp is going to make a huge difference in 1st gear as well as second gear. Not only that but I can wind the gear out farther to 6k and hold that powerband longer which will pay off esp in 3rd gear.
Here are the corrected numbers for a very hot, 102°F day.
I'm still not sure just what it is you think you're proving here. That you can make a 2.8 that will get close to 4.9L numbers if you give it a shot of N2O? OK. So? If you do, and I cared enough, I'd give the 4.9L a 75 shot and then what? I have more power and torque by a long shot than you with the shot? Duh.
No my whole point here john in case you dont' remember is that I said my 2.8 with a shot of nitrous can beat a stock 4.9. Thats what I have been saying. Of course I started gettign slammed by many people saying that I couldnt'
Go ahead and put nitrous on your 4.9 then. Dont' say that you can do it to get more hp if you want but not do it. If you aren't going to do it then dont' say that you could do it. Of course you could do it if you wanted. And you could also do it on your 3.4 too. And you could also prob put it on the family car.
But hey if you are looking for a nitrous kit to put on your 4.9 I have one for sale. NOS kit brand new for $350 shipped. Now you have no excuse for not putting nitrous on your 4.9. I am offering to sell you my kit.
After posting my shakedown nitrous runs do you still not think I can beat Earls 4.9 or any other stock 4.9 auto out there even though I have more hp now then what those runs show? Just answer yes or no. Cause this has been my point all along.
SH
Edit: Those are some good numbers by the way. You have a strong 4.9. I think its kind of wierd how there is so much fluctuation between 4.9 dynos. A difference of 20-30 hp on some and even as much as 60 llb ft. Any idea why this is?
[This message has been edited by The Punisher (edited 09-07-2004).]
When are you going to make up your mind to race Earl and get it over instead of "Bench Racing",I am trying to picture in my mind both of you coming off the line :
You pop the clutch and he steps on the gas . You get a jump on the 4.9as you shift to second and he starts to hook up and his low end torque comes into play, You are in third hit your nitro button while his torque pushes him ahead of you by 2 to 3 car lengths and even with you still spraying you cannot make up that gap in a 1/4 mile and I see you loosing .No way with him ahead of you that you will reel him in with a 2.8 period.
Edited:Post a pic of your nitrous kit I might be interested .
[This message has been edited by Master Tuner Akimoto (edited 09-07-2004).]
I graduated with 2 degrees in automotive marketing from University
and you work at a car lot.???
quote
Originally posted by The Punisher:
I also have a 2002 Mini Cooper I use for track events.
You said that was your girlfriend's Cooper... I remember when you posted the picture's when she got it...LMAO!!!
quote
Originally posted by The Punisher: In this day and age of automobiles 14.9's isn't Impressive at all. When you can get a 4 door subaru Legacy that will crack off 0 60 in 5. 3 secs and run high 13's 14.9's seems anemic. Hell you can even Buy a Subaru Forester that will outrun most 4.9's.... Sad , But true.
True.. BUT... You can't get those for say... $2500(ya'll keep saying that price for the 4.9L swap) and are'nt those AWD and turbo..?? See you are trying to compare apple's to grapes...AGAIN!!
quote
Originally posted by The Punisher: there is only one 4.9 that would do that...and it's driven by a girl.. FORSHAME!!
But... Built by a man!!
No flames just wanted to point out a few thing's...
ps. I am also going with the 4.9L 5speedTURD (as you think of them)
I don't particularly want to juice it. My only reason for mentioning it is that you're comparing apples to oranges.
I can't say if you'll beat Earl or not, I've never seen his car or heard it run. It would be foolish for me to guess. Could *I* beat you? IF you left it the shot you have on there now, I think it would be a very, very close race.
I'd take you out of the hole and beat you to the 1/8th, probably by quite a bit. I think the auto can shift faster than you can, but it's gears are spaced wider, the 1-2 shift is where you'll maybe start making up some ground. End result, a very close race (me winning, of course ) and you might run a higher trap speed by a little.
Of course, if you feel threatened, you'll just pull the 75 hp jets and put in some 125's. There would be no way of knowing what you had in there. But IF you raced me with the engine on the dyno sheet, I think if we raced 10 times I might beat you 6.
Of course, since you won't go to a track, we'll never find out.
No idea on the numbers except for the fact that we did clean the injectors, make sure everything was in top tune, and it has a very free exhaust system. Personally, I don't think they're great, if you look at the corrected numbers and estimated engine hp from them, they're very close to the factory rated numbers. It's just running like it should be.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by The Punisher:
No my whole point here john in case you dont' remember is that I said my 2.8 with a shot of nitrous can beat a stock 4.9. Thats what I have been saying. Of course I started gettign slammed by many people saying that I couldnt'
Go ahead and put nitrous on your 4.9 then. Dont' say that you can do it to get more hp if you want but not do it. If you aren't going to do it then dont' say that you could do it. Of course you could do it if you wanted. And you could also do it on your 3.4 too. And you could also prob put it on the family car.
But hey if you are looking for a nitrous kit to put on your 4.9 I have one for sale. NOS kit brand new for $350 shipped. Now you have no excuse for not putting nitrous on your 4.9. I am offering to sell you my kit.
After posting my shakedown nitrous runs do you still not think I can beat Earls 4.9 or any other stock 4.9 auto out there even though I have more hp now then what those runs show? Just answer yes or no. Cause this has been my point all along.
SH
Edit: Those are some good numbers by the way. You have a strong 4.9. I think its kind of wierd how there is so much fluctuation between 4.9 dynos. A difference of 20-30 hp on some and even as much as 60 llb ft. Any idea why this is?
No my whole point here john in case you dont' remember is that I said my 2.8 with a shot of nitrous can beat a stock 4.9. Thats what I have been saying. Of course I started gettign slammed by many people saying that I couldnt'
Go ahead and put nitrous on your 4.9 then. Dont' say that you can do it to get more hp if you want but not do it. If you aren't going to do it then dont' say that you could do it. Of course you could do it if you wanted. And you could also do it on your 3.4 too. And you could also prob put it on the family car.
But hey if you are looking for a nitrous kit to put on your 4.9 I have one for sale. NOS kit brand new for $350 shipped. Now you have no excuse for not putting nitrous on your 4.9. I am offering to sell you my kit.
After posting my shakedown nitrous runs do you still not think I can beat Earls 4.9 or any other stock 4.9 auto out there even though I have more hp now then what those runs show? Just answer yes or no. Cause this has been my point all along.
SH
Edit: Those are some good numbers by the way. You have a strong 4.9. I think its kind of wierd how there is so much fluctuation between 4.9 dynos. A difference of 20-30 hp on some and even as much as 60 llb ft. Any idea why this is?
Ok let me save you some time...... I know for a fact You would of lost It would of not of mattered if you hit the nos early or later... Like master tuner said...... It's very hard to play catchup on a 1/4 mile run.... Plus I had a little ace up my sleeves with the gearing in my tranny and the TC..... Still a stock engine tho But when I put a higher stall speed in the th 440 with the 2:73 final drive The higher stall speed TC gave me brutal faster launches and higher gearing for faster speeds..... Plus I went with lighter springs on my distributer for nice timing advance Since mine used the mechanical dist..... If you ever drove a carburated 4.9 it is night and day when you go with lighter springs on the mechanical timing
BTW the blue springs work very well on stick shift 4.9s I went with the black ones for the auto. Anyway if you don't believe me we still have till oct 8th before I drop the cradle on mine for the 100th time..... After that it's going to be getting a nice little turbo and a lighter tranny... But in my opinion unless im a good shifter then I will never count a stickshift as a proformance upgrade over a auto. Anyway You are right about your car being lighter The 4speed hydrolic shifted auto weighs a ton
Now those cheap aftermarket parts that don't count as bolt ons make a huge difference...... Oh I forgot to mention the exhaust... Teee hee hee
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 09-07-2004).]
oh boy black, I never said I would race him at the track. SO quit trying to say I did. Once again you fail to comprehend anything I type. There are 5 pages in this thread now and I think you have actually read 0.
Earl the TC that you installed does not change your gear ratio. You still have a 2.73 according to you. The only difference is more rpm for brake boosting for a better launch. You are still stuck with your 2.73 gears though
Lets say your 4.9 was making 200 hp as it sits. How much would you say your carb added? I mean you are still stuck with the stock cam and heads. airflow in that area will be the same.
It will be like Arn going from his efi to a carb. he claimed up and down it felt better and seemed faster. His car was actually slower in the qtr mile after he installed and tuned his carb. Now after his slower time he knows he has to tune it some more. My point here is that just adding a carb and driving it around town you aren't going to be able to tell if you are actually making more power or not.
Now I am not trying to cut your 4.9 with the carb on it but you really have no idea other then a butt dyno if it makes more power and if so by how much.
If anythign earl since you are putting a spd tranny in and you live fairly close to OSW, I would take it there and get some times in that way you can see just how much a 5 spd tranny improves times over the 440 wit a stall converter.
MTA, yea I might just lose if I dont' use my nitrous till 3rd gear but why would I do that?
So yiou say I will have him out of the hole, have lead into second lose the lead in second gear and then not be able to get it back in 3rd when I use the nitrous. Now what if I use the nitrous in first gear as well as second gear and then in 3rd as well which is how I would do it if I raced from a stop. According to you I would have him out of the hole and then with my ntirous in every gear I should be able to still "barely" beat him . I mean tthat at least 40 hp extra Ihave from 5200 rpm up has to have some roll on the outcome of this no? I know that when I race a car that has 40 more hp then me up top I get walked hard in third gear. I actually raced an SRT-4 and I had him till 3rd but even then he came by me like I was standing still.
oh boy black, I never said I would race him at the track. SO quit trying to say I did. Once again you fail to comprehend anything I type. There are 5 pages in this thread now and I think you have actually read 0.
SH
I'm actualy not trying to argue with you because you have actualy started talking to people decent. You said you wanted to race him. I just think you should go to the track and do it. The dyno tells you how much power your making. The track tells you how fast that power makes you. If you dont want people knowing what you run, then run no time like I said before.
Just do this.
[This message has been edited by Black-Azz-GT (edited 09-07-2004).]
oh boy black, I never said I would race him at the track. SO quit trying to say I did. Once again you fail to comprehend anything I type. There are 5 pages in this thread now and I think you have actually read 0.
Earl the TC that you installed does not change your gear ratio. You still have a 2.73 according to you. The only difference is more rpm for brake boosting for a better launch. You are still stuck with your 2.73 gears though
Lets say your 4.9 was making 200 hp as it sits. How much would you say your carb added? I mean you are still stuck with the stock cam and heads. airflow in that area will be the same.
It will be like Arn going from his efi to a carb. he claimed up and down it felt better and seemed faster. His car was actually slower in the qtr mile after he installed and tuned his carb. Now after his slower time he knows he has to tune it some more. My point here is that just adding a carb and driving it around town you aren't going to be able to tell if you are actually making more power or not.
Now I am not trying to cut your 4.9 with the carb on it but you really have no idea other then a butt dyno if it makes more power and if so by how much.
If anythign earl since you are putting a spd tranny in and you live fairly close to OSW, I would take it there and get some times in that way you can see just how much a 5 spd tranny improves times over the 440 wit a stall converter.
MTA, yea I might just lose if I dont' use my nitrous till 3rd gear but why would I do that?
So yiou say I will have him out of the hole, have lead into second lose the lead in second gear and then not be able to get it back in 3rd when I use the nitrous. Now what if I use the nitrous in first gear as well as second gear and then in 3rd as well which is how I would do it if I raced from a stop. According to you I would have him out of the hole and then with my ntirous in every gear I should be able to still "barely" beat him . I mean tthat at least 40 hp extra Ihave from 5200 rpm up has to have some roll on the outcome of this no? I know that when I race a car that has 40 more hp then me up top I get walked hard in third gear. I actually raced an SRT-4 and I had him till 3rd but even then he came by me like I was standing still.
Sent you a pm earl.
SH
Never said the carb really was no improvement only that it opened up little tunning secrets to the 4.9.... Actually 500cfm is a bit of a overkill since the stock Throttle body is only 350cfm.
And if I had to race my same car with a th 440 inside it against my 5speed.... Unless Im a awsome shifter it would be hard to outshift that auto the only advantage is I would be a bit lighter.... say about 120pounds.
But the higher stall TC allowed me to get better launches and retain the 2:73 gear ratio for high speed highway crusing Infact it's so nice that I have never seen this engine reach higher then 3200 RPMs in 4th gear.
I got your pm and it still stays the same.... I cannot race you illegally on the street.... I just can't afford to get caught.... Or worst... I rather hit the 1/4 mile down the strip and pick up our slips... So then it would be no excuses in who lost or whatever If we just did this on the street then it would be a he said this and that and this thread will grow to 20 pages.
Tell you what... I have a set date on when I actually start hooking up the turbo and since I got all my stick shift parts soo The turbo wont be going on for another 2 to 3 months after the stick shift install date. So you have a bit of time when you decide
And If I had nos the Only thing and I mean the only thing it would be used for is a ace...... Im not a expert on nos but im sure it does not do a stock 2.8 good at all
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 09-07-2004).]
MTA, yea I might just lose if I dont' use my nitrous till 3rd gear but why would I do that? Now what if I use the nitrous in first gear as well as second gear
SH
If you use nitrous in 1st speed tire smoke and wheel spin can't hook up as you will be overpowering the tires 2nd speed still spinning tires ,nitrous is usually applied at wide open throttle when the car is running at full or near full speed.
You seem to think you get hp out of a box, as in NOS, or a factory setup retrofit.
When you mod or hotrod an engine it takes alot of work before it is at it's 'sweet' spot.
First run at a track is just that. The first run. If I had an assortment of shooters, jets, cams, power valves, distributor springs, etc. available at the track, it would still take 3 runs with each setup, (likely 20+ runs over a couple of days), to establish any clear results.
You generally don't establish the speed the car is capable of until it is dialled in. A car can make more apparent power and still not produce across the power band like mine was doing with SBC jetting. Anybody who has done serious tuning knows the process.
Being dismissive is not intelligent and it does not prove your point. The carbed 4.9 is likely flowing alot more mix than a stock EFI setup, but probably not as much as that big Holley TB
I'll restate the obvious. Increase the flow of the engine and you increase hp and torque, NOS excepted.
So if you want to make your point, use somebody who has finished setting up their engine, not a guy in the middle of modding as your example.
Pick on the other carb guys who have the work finished and know exactly what they have not a guy in the middle of a mod project.
Arn
[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 09-07-2004).]
If you use nitrous in 1st speed tire smoke and wheel spin can't hook up as you will be overpowering the tires 2nd speed still spinning tires ,nitrous is usually applied at wide open throttle when the car is running at full or near full speed.
Oh really? I can only assume you have seen my car launch when on the bottle.
FYI. It dead hooks. No tire smoke nor wheel spin. this is on street tires and on the street by the way. And nitrous can be used in any gear. You dont' have to wait till the car is in 3rd gear or "at near full speed" to use it.
You seem to think you get hp out of a box, as in NOS, or a factory setup retrofit.
When you mod or hotrod an engine it takes alot of work before it is at it's 'sweet' spot.
I dont' think that at all. Which is why I have taken my car to an actual dyno to see whats happenign with it and tune from there. I dont' use a butt dyno like everyone else here does. i have spent countless hours on the dyno tweaking it to get the best power curve and a/f ratio as I can. Even after all this I can still do a bit more tuning to get into that sweet spot as you call it. It takes time on the dyno You can't do it with a butt dyno.
Once again all talk.... Just go to the track. Put up or shut up. I have given one of you, the punisher('s) a + recently for spicing up the forum a little and backing up claims with dyno sheets and install pics etc; but this thread has to end. Do you want to get arrested, kill someone, get a speeding ticket? No of course not. So do the sensible thing and go to the track, get some reaction times and 60 ft's, we'll compare ACTUAL pro's and con's of both these cars. What do you have to lose? Your already racing a larger engine, with more power naturally, and we know you would get your ass handed to you without the bottle, so lets see what happens. I started this thread to see if I would be interested in a 4.9 swap, instead we get the "my car is faster than your car" verbal exchange leading no where. Again put up or shut up.
------------------ 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT Auto, soon to be 5 spd Getrag from 88 z24, Best 1/4 = 16.1 at 83mph, mods, wires, CRX intake, and power pulley. Planning Turbo 2.8 swap for a little more umph!!!!
Hey john I dont' know waht your car runs in the qtr or the 1/8th for that matter but here are both of my times
8.9 1/8th and 14.2 qtr.
And these weren't even my quickest times either. These were also in my auto tranny 85 GT whiched weighed more then my current 88 formula and I know the formula is faster then my old 85 GT based on 3 things
Better gearing, more hp then my old 85, and the formula weighs less then my old 85 GT. All these combined make for a faster car.
Also you would never see my putting 125 jets in. its too dangerous and the engine cant' hold it for long. I dont' go higher then the recommended settings from NOS.
As you can see its quick off the line, quick to the 1/8th as well. ist my opinion that a stock 4.9 with auto tranny isn't going to do that. Which of course has been proven by several people here on the forum that with the auto tranny its not pulling these times.
SH
[This message has been edited by The Punisher (edited 09-07-2004).]
I started this thread to see if I would be interested in a 4.9 swap,
You are right you started this thread to see where a stock 4.9 auto would run in the qtr with at most a rockcrawl chip. I answered taht question on page one based on what everyone else with the same setup has run. Then I get the bashing coming down onme saying that 4.9's can be faster. But you asked for stock.
And stock is going to be a mid 14(linenoise) to a low 15 second qtr mile time.
Now if you want to spend roughly $2500 or so on a swap to get you high 14's or so go for it. Its your car.
Well first of all if you go back and look I am not backing out of anything. Earl was the first one to metnion racing on the freeway. I was game for that. Then he changed his mind and wants to go at a track. Which of course this is all fine and daddy. I don't want to race at a track though. Its just that simple. I dont' want to race at a track just like he doesnt' want to race on the street. Why don't you give him some flack for not wanting to race on the freeway from a roll like he originally callled me out to do. I do not want to race at a track. He said its $25 for two runs. NO THANK YOU. I am not going to drive an hour to race at a strip and only get two runs in. It would be easier if we met halfway and did a freeway run after doing a drive through looking for police.
And I know thiis formula is faster and I have listed the reasons as to why. go back and read again and try to comprehend this time. Also the timeslip is of my old 85 gt. REad it again black and you will see that I typed that. Why do you not comprehend anything???? I posted that timeslip from my old car as a reference to what it ran and I know my formula is faster. STop trying to be a dick and trying to find flaws in my posts or where I am going back on something that I previously stated cause i haven't gone back on anything. Actually read it before making a post. Read it 20 times if you have to to make sure that it sinks in. How did you ever get through school without really understanding anything that you read?
And arns I just told you that this car dead hooks on nitrous. I even posted a slip of a 1.8 60 ft time. So how can you then turn around and say that it spins? Dude think for a sec. I tell you my car dead hooks spraying off the line and then you turn around and call me a liar by saying that a 2.8 with nitrous and a manual tranny will spin off the line. Get a clue. It doesn't spin at all.
The race isnt' going to happen cause we can't agree on a place to do it. Oh well.
I looked for our time slips from Wheatstock but can't find them, that's the only time we've had it on the track (dragstrip anyway). I did record them for CFOGi, but not the RT, 1/8, 60ft, etc. To be honest, since Chris was having to get out of the throttle to make it shift, I didn't really keep track of the slips. I don't know if he gave them to me or if he put them somewhere.
I do know that we had a best ET of 14.86 and a best trap speed of 94.2 mph (not on the same run), but that's all I have of on my records. That was with a stock 4.9L that was hitting the rev limiter and Chris had to lift to get it to shift.
You can launch an automatic as hard or harder than a stick if you know how to do it. We come very close to pulling the right front tire on launch, but not quite. That won't change with the new chip, it will just allow us to stay in the throttle the whole way down the track. Since we put the 225-16 Dunlops on the back, we have no wheelspin and we're running 2.99 gears, not 2.64's.
I'll still think we'll beat you to the 1/8th pretty handily if you stay with the 75 shot. We have a huge advantage on torque which is what matters off the line. You know that just as well as I do. How the race would end up would be a close call.
You're right, the gear ratio is the same regardless of converter, mechanically, but the advantage TO a torque converter is just that, it effectively lowers the gearing up to the stall speed. In effect, we'll be launching like a car with 4.10's until we get to the point the converter is effectively 1:1 or nearly so. That, and quicker shifts, is why the bracket racers are running autos and not sticks (along with consistency).
Even the big boys don't play with conventional manual transmissions. The run progressive, centrifugal clutches and planetary boxes. A straight 4 speed or 5 speed is NOT the quickest way down the track and hasn't been for a long time. The one thing they have going for them (and it's a big one) is weight. They're significantly lighter than an auto and lighter = faster, all other things being equal.
I'm also at a loss as to why you won't go to the track now, but post a time slip. Grow up and take it off the street where the real racers go.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by The Punisher:
Hey john I dont' know waht your car runs in the qtr or the 1/8th for that matter but here are both of my times
8.9 1/8th and 14.2 qtr.
And these weren't even my quickest times either. These were also in my auto tranny 85 GT whiched weighed more then my current 88 formula and I know the formula is faster then my old 85 GT based on 3 things
Better gearing, more hp then my old 85, and the formula weighs less then my old 85 GT. All these combined make for a faster car.
Also you would never see my putting 125 jets in. its too dangerous and the engine cant' hold it for long. I dont' go higher then the recommended settings from NOS.
As you can see its quick off the line, quick to the 1/8th as well. ist my opinion that a stock 4.9 with auto tranny isn't going to do that. Which of course has been proven by several people here on the forum that with the auto tranny its not pulling these times.
And I know thiis formula is faster and I have listed the reasons as to why. go back and read again and try to comprehend this time. Also the timeslip is of my old 85 gt. REad it again black and you will see that I typed that. Why do you not comprehend anything???? I posted that timeslip from my old car as a reference to what it ran and I know my formula is faster. STop trying to be a dick and trying to find flaws in my posts or where I am going back on something that I previously stated cause i haven't gone back on anything. Actually read it before making a post. Read it 20 times if you have to to make sure that it sinks in. How did you ever get through school without really understanding anything that you read?
The race isnt' going to happen cause we can't agree on a place to do it. Oh well.
Case closed.
SH
I comprehended everything you said. I know you where talking about two different cars 85gt and the formula. You typed it nice and clear. Yhat is why I said, "Sure, maybe the formula is faster". But with out going to the track you dont know for sure. I probably would race on the street, but that is just me. How ever, if I talked all the smack you did I would go to the track to back myself up. Plus, Earl agreed to buy you dinner, beer, a tank of gas, ect.... if he looses. So what's the big deal about $25.
From this side of the internet, you look like your being a ***** . This thread died for a few days and you're the one who brought it back with the Dyno sheets showing how you must be able to win, but you still wont race him. In a situation like this, a track is the only way. A staging light, 1/4 mile, no excuses. Be a man and do it, or dont post here any more about your car being faster. Really.
Well, one way it's legal and safe, the other it's illegal and dangerous, that may be why Earl thought better of the freeway scenario.........BUT...........
If you REALLY want to do the freeway thing then let's just do it like we used to back when I was in College back in the mid '70's. Hays, KS, to the KS/CO state line, I 70 all the way. 162 miles. We race for pink slips. Come on up and you best have an extra bottle or two. Even then, be sure to look at the MPH on that dyno sheet I posted and remember, that was in 3rd gear, not OD.
John "yes, I was once young and stupid too, but both times I did it I ended up with an extra car" Stricker
PS: one time I left the car I beat sitting at Grinnell, KS, and never went back for it since it blew up there. I had no use for a 351 Cleveland with a picture window in the side of the block. The other time I had pity on the guy and sold it back to him for $1,000.
quote
Originally posted by The Punisher:
Well first of all if you go back and look I am not backing out of anything. Earl was the first one to metnion racing on the freeway. I was game for that. Then he changed his mind and wants to go at a track. Which of course this is all fine and daddy. I don't want to race at a track though. Its just that simple. I dont' want to race at a track just like he doesnt' want to race on the street. Why don't you give him some flack for not wanting to race on the freeway from a roll like he originally callled me out to do. I do not want to race at a track. He said its $25 for two runs. NO THANK YOU. I am not going to drive an hour to race at a strip and only get two runs in. It would be easier if we met halfway and did a freeway run after doing a drive through looking for police.
The race isnt' going to happen cause we can't agree on a place to do it. Oh well.
"And arns I just told you that this car dead hooks on nitrous. I even posted a slip of a 1.8 60 ft time. So how can you then turn around and say that it spins? Dude think for a sec. I tell you my car dead hooks spraying off the line and then you turn around and call me a liar by saying that a 2.8 with nitrous and a manual tranny will spin off the line. Get a clue. It doesn't spin at all."
after I said ........
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:
Both are right to a point.
NOS at lower hp levels can hook up, but at the hp levels MT goes at, you'd be wrecking equipment and not hooking up right for certain.
Give a 2.8 drivetrain too much though, and it will break. No doubt at all. I've seen it happen.
Arn
.......And I thought I was both fair & clear. A guy pulling ~200 hp will hook up. A guy ~300+on nitrous is not going to hook solid.
I thought my comment was pretty fair, but this is what I just got on PM's from SH. Shaun you just don't get it. Sometimes a setup doesn't come together first nite out.
Quote from SH:
you were the one talking about what jets to use for max power. going around saying you are running the same jets and that the car runs good with it. Now you take it to the track and you are a half second off. Ummm what happened to all that extra hp and perfect jetting you had on it? Why would you go around telling other people what to jet their carb at if you didnt' feel it was the best setting?? You told people what to jet their carb at cause that is what you had yours at.
Now it wasn't as fast and you blame it on the jetting after being sure taht it was the best jetting for the setup.
Give it a rest dude.
And that was my point with my post about the carb on the 4.9. He put a carb on it and hasn't taken it to the track or dyno to change jettings or tune it to see if it has made a positive difference. He just slapped it on and states its faster. Well we can see that is not always the case since your car proved this. Most likely him slapping that carb on the 4.9 slowed it down. he did no tuning on it except for maybe the butt. But then again yoiu used yoru butt too right and you see where that got you.
I think its kind of funny. Even on a great day a 4.9 will do a 14.6 as linenoise has posted. This is after many trips to the drag and getting the launch down just right. This guy has never been to the track, prob has carb tuning issues that he is unaware of so its not making as much power. SO lets say that this 4.9 can do a mid 14. That is still not enough. I find it funny how people think a mid 14 is enough to beat me. I posted my old 85 gt with less power and a auto tranny turned a 14.1 Thats already half a second faster then the best stock 4.9 swap out there with the auto tranny. And this car that I am driving now is faster then my old setup. It has better gearing, weighs less, and is making more power then the 4.9. So it should seem obvious whos car is faster
You people are so hung up on hoping to see me lose that you are trying to find any reason why I will. I post facts on what my car can do and people still make excuses. Some are so blinded by wanted to see me lose. Its kind of funny really.
If a C5 corvette rolled up next to him at a light, he wouldnt' even think about it. Now my car is not a corvette, but compared to the 4.9 auto the vette has better gearing and more hp. The corvette weighs a little more though then my car. But even then it has better gearing and more power. You wouldnt' even argue taht then would you? So wahts the difference here? My car has better gearing and more hp and weighs less. It should be easy to figure out which car is faster.
TAke the blinders off and I recommend everyone else take them off too.
Originally posted by jstricker: John "yes, I was once young and stupid too, but both times I did it I ended up with an extra car" Stricker
YEAH... and now you're just old and stupid!!!
Now that is FUNNY! How many cigars did you smoke between Hays and Colorado? Hey, I've got a local place that rents Vipers and what not... you and Chris up to that same run in my rental vs. your Finale? Actually, I need to post that picture of what they made Chris run against at Wheatstock
Actually, I was just curious what YOU were running back in the day? The broken car sounds like it might have been a mustang (they put 351's in them right?)... the other car... I'm just gonna take a wild guess here... was an Impala with a 327... and my second wild ace guess was that you were in a Coronet with a 383...
Hey smoooth, let's see what you got..... Do you even have a job?!?
I support a family of 4.. So, I think I might have one..
I never said I had anything.. But....lol matter of fact I am doing a 5speed 4.9L swap myself! Right now it is up on block's waiting on the swap.. oh and I have a widebody choptop... What do you have..?? I bet my dog could whip your's or I can run faster then you or my daughter could beat you up... and she's only 8!
Come on dude, why are you always trolling after me..?? You dont have anything better to do..?? I just wanted to know if he has 2 college degree's why he works at a car lot.?? I mean this thread turned to shiit as usual when a 4.9L is asked about... Why?
But dats going on last. 
and you work at a car lot.??? 
