In the mean time, the Republic of Texas founders were meeting in the Washington on the Brazos. TEXAS !
Declaring our desired independence from the people of color mexicans.
Today is Texas Independence Day.
In my best SGT Carter voice, ...
DO YOU HEAR ME AMERICA !
quote
Originally posted by sourmash: Weren't both those men from different states than Texas?
both? Yes Mexico did not allow permanent colonists from the US in until 1821when Mexico authorized Stephen F. Austin to form a settlement of 300 Anglo families. By 1836, the oldest native Texican (Anglo living in Texas in that era--Mexicans living in Texas during the same period were known in Mexico as Tejanos) would have been only 15 yrs old.
The early colonists in the US were all from other nations, except the native Americans.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-02-2021).]
In the mean time, the Republic of Texas founders were meeting in the Washington on the Brazos. TEXAS !
Declaring our desired independence from the people of color mexicans.
Today is Texas Independence Day.
In my best SGT Carter voice, ...
DO YOU HEAR ME AMERICA !
Actually, Houston wanted to "tell Travis" and Bowie, to destroy the Mexican garrison, any goods they couldn't haul, and abandon the Alamo. The newly elected Texas Republic president Smith wouldn't allow it because Bowie had written Smith extolling the importance of holding Bexar and President Smith told Houston to leave the volunteer force in SA alone. To be factual tho, Travis was a relatively late comer to the town of Bexar. It was Bowie that recived the order to abandon San Antonio. Ben Milam, Edward Burelson, Stephen Austin, Tejano federalist Juan Seguin and James Neil were the Texican leaders that had originally run Mexican General Cos out of Bexar after 2 months of skirmishes Oct-Dec 1835.
Each of those had their own militia, and each militia elected their own leaders. After the battle, many of the men left Bexar and went home or elsewhere. Bowie and his men left and met with Houston. Neil left to look after his family who were sick, as was Neil himself. Milam was killed in the battle. Burleson left to go join Houston, tho Houston had taken a leave of absence to negotiate a treaty with East Texas indians. Austin, was appointed by the Texas council as emissary to the USA so he left. Juan Seguin, was not actually at the Battle of the Alamo, but he has a very special place in Texas history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Segu%C3%ADn.
Burleson and Houston despised each other, but each realized the other's military worth.
Bowie had Houston's trust, and had left to seek counsel with Houston, and it was then, that Houston sent him back to Bexar to access the situation there and ordered him to destroy the Alamo mission, but when he arrived, found only about 100 men left there and decided it was too valuable a strategic location to abandon.
Then, Travis arrived with his own militia and some new Orleans Greys and they opted for a shared command. Crockett and his own militia arrived, and enough volunteers to make it the famous 385 men.
The big loss was Neil, as he was the most experienced artillery commander, and after the end of the 1st battle, commanded the largest assortment of artillery west of the Mississippi including an 18pounder. An 18pounder had a cannonball with a 19.5" diameter.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-02-2021).]
both? Yes Mexico did not allow permanent colonists from the US in until 1821when Mexico authorized Stephen F. Austin to form a settlement of 300 Anglo families. By 1836, the oldest native Texican (Anglo living in Texas in that era) would have been only 15 yrs old.
The early colonists in the US were all from other nations, except the native Americans.
Good info, thanks. But there are no "native" people to America. They're American Indians from other lands. We're a nation of immigrants.
Originally posted by sourmash: Weren't both those men from different states than Texas?
They may have been from different States. Don't know, don't care. They came to Texas, which was not a State of America. What does that tell you ?
Davy Crockett, a member of Congress, said "you may all go to hell, I am going to Texas.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane: Actually, Houston wanted to tell Travis and Bowie, to destroy the Mexican garrison, any goods they couldn't haul, and abandon the Alamo. The newly elected Texas Republic president Smith wouldn't allow it because Bowie had written Smith extolling the importance of holding Bexar and President Smith told Houston to leave the volunteer force in SA alone.
Hmm. Me ?
I thought Houston was the first President of the Republic of Texas.
Yes, a message was dispatched to abandon the Alamo. At the Alamo, some people did something. 186 holding off 5,000 people of color.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-02-2021).]
Originally posted by cliffw: They may have been from different States. Don't know, don't care. They came to Texas, which was not a State of America. What does that tell you ?
It says Texas was won by an amalgamation of citizens from other states. SALUTE!, to them!
I thought Houston was the first President of the Republic of Texas
True. Henry Smith was elected 1st governor (not president) of the provisional government of Texas prior to it winning independence. He ran against Houston as president of the Republic but lost and soon thereafter left for Calif, where he died and is buried. "California stands vigil over his dust but Texas is the guardian of his fame."
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-02-2021).]
On this day, in 1836, the Alamo fell to Santa Anna. Though every single defender was killed, even after it fell, "put to the sword" as was done in Goliad. The "thirteen days of glory" of the Alamo, delayed Santa Anna in his quest to defeat Sam Houston. The commander of our insurrection.
Houston, seemingly retreating east north east, was recruiting and training troops. Also drawing Santa Anna further and further away from his re-supply lines.
There is more to the story. I will save the rest for San Jacinto Day.
Let the old men tell the story Let the legend grow and grow Of the thirteen days of glory At the siege of Alamo.
Lift the tattered banners proudly While the eyes of Texas shine. Let the fort that was a mission Be an everlasting shrine.
Once they fought to give us freedom. That is all we need to know Of the thirteen days of glory At the siege of Alamo ...
Now the bugles are silent And there's rust on each sword And the small band of soldiers... Lie asleep in the arms of the Lord... Lie Asleep In The Arms Of The Lord
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-06-2021).]
Actually, Houston wanted to "tell Travis" and Bowie, to destroy the Mexican garrison, any goods they couldn't haul, and abandon the Alamo. The newly elected Texas Republic president Smith wouldn't allow it because Bowie had written Smith extolling the importance of holding Bexar and President Smith told Houston to leave the volunteer force in SA alone. To be factual tho, Travis was a relatively late comer to the town of Bexar. It was Bowie that recived the order to abandon San Antonio. Ben Milam, Edward Burelson, Stephen Austin, Tejano federalist Juan Seguin and James Neil were the Texican leaders that had originally run Mexican General Cos out of Bexar after 2 months of skirmishes Oct-Dec 1835.
Each of those had their own militia, and each militia elected their own leaders. After the battle, many of the men left Bexar and went home or elsewhere. Bowie and his men left and met with Houston. Neil left to look after his family who were sick, as was Neil himself. Milam was killed in the battle. Burleson left to go join Houston, tho Houston had taken a leave of absence to negotiate a treaty with East Texas indians. Austin, was appointed by the Texas council as emissary to the USA so he left. Juan Seguin, was not actually at the Battle of the Alamo, but he has a very special place in Texas history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Segu%C3%ADn.
Burleson and Houston despised each other, but each realized the other's military worth.
Bowie had Houston's trust, and had left to seek counsel with Houston, and it was then, that Houston sent him back to Bexar to access the situation there and ordered him to destroy the Alamo mission, but when he arrived, found only about 100 men left there and decided it was too valuable a strategic location to abandon.
Then, Travis arrived with his own militia and some new Orleans Greys and they opted for a shared command. Crockett and his own militia arrived, and enough volunteers to make it the famous 385 men.
The big loss was Neil, as he was the most experienced artillery commander, and after the end of the 1st battle, commanded the largest assortment of artillery west of the Mississippi including an 18pounder. An 18pounder had a cannonball with a 19.5" diameter.
Interesting. All of it. Guess what. It begs questions, . My local DJ has a Texas trivia question every day of the year. I think it was Wednesday he said on that date, Houston arrived in Gonzales, TX and assumed command of the Texas Army.
I have no clue to what he was doing before his promotion, how he could order the Alamo to be abandoned. How he could say to Travis to get some men and go, fortify the Alamo.
I doubt your radio personality knows any more about actual Texas histry than you appear to know. Before the gathering March 1 of The Convention of 1836 at Washington-on-the Brazos, there was a prior gathering of delegates at what is known as The Consultation. It took place in Nacogdoches on Nov 1 1835. It was at this meeting that Sam Houston was elected (unanimously) to command Texas military. But, Houston immediately took leave of absence to iron out a treaty with the East Texas Indians. Consultation was initially slated to begin in Oct, but was postponed after violence between the colonists and Mexican troops erupted in Gonzales on Oct 2 1835. Houston didn't conclude that treaty negotiation until Feb 1836. At the Convention of 1836, the delgates voted for independence and reconfirmed The Consultation's choice of Houston as commander of "all the armies in Texas", which there was none organized at the time.
The Texican military prior to March 1836 consisted of various groups of volunteers scattered across Texas. Gonzales, La Bahia, Bexar, Nacogdoches etc. Each of those militias elected their own leader. When Houston finally arrived in Gonzales to offically take command of 'all the armies in Texas' that militia also voted whether to accept him as commander or not. They voted yes, and he and the militia soon dparted Gonzales for safer ground to the East.
The John Wayne movie shows Houston (Richard Boone) meeting in San Antonio with Travis and other officers after the 1st battle of Bexar stating tha Bowie 'won a battle, and got drunk afterwards". That meeting never took place in real life and in fact, Bowie was not at the Alamo during that period. He, like most of the volunteers from the 1st battle of Bexar had returned home. (Bowies was not even present in Bexar during the final victory at Bexar in Dec 1835, but was there during the earlier Grass Battle and the Battle of Conception) It was also not Houston that initially ordered Travis to "get some volunteers and go..' to Bexar. It was Provisional gov Henry Smith along with other members of that fractured council. Houston was still dealing with the Cherokee Indians.
Houston met with Bowie in January at Goliad and ordered him back to Bexar to access the situation and destroy the mission, as Houston was not in favor of further defending Bexar. He viewed it as an insignificant military post and too far South and West to be easily defendable. This is a transcript of one of the letters Houston sent to Gov Smith Jan 17, 1836. “I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished, and if you should think well of it, I will remove all the cannon and other munitions of war to Gonzales and Copano, blow up the Alamo and abandon the place.”
Once Bowie arrived back in Bexar tho, he decided the town and fortifications too valuable to abandon and the rest is history.
Originally posted by williegoat: Can I play Bob Wills now?
No. Maybe later.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane: I doubt your radio personality knows any more about actual Texas histry than you appear to know. Before the gathering March 1 of The Convention of 1836 at Washington-on-the Brazos, there was a prior gathering of delegates at what is known as The Consultation. It took place in Nacogdoches on Nov 1 1835. It was at this meeting that Sam Houston was elected (unanimously) to command Texas military. But, Houston immediately took leave of absence to iron out a treaty with the East Texas Indians. Consultation was initially slated to begin in Oct, but was postponed after violence between the colonists and Mexican troops erupted in Gonzales on Oct 2 1835. Houston didn't conclude that treaty negotiation until Feb 1836. At the Convention of 1836, the delgates voted for independence and reconfirmed The Consultation's choice of Houston as commander of "all the armies in Texas", which there was none organized at the time.
The Texican military prior to March 1836 consisted of various groups of volunteers scattered across Texas. Gonzales, La Bahia, Bexar, Nacogdoches etc. Each of those militias elected their own leader. When Houston finally arrived in Gonzales to offically take command of 'all the armies in Texas' that militia also voted whether to accept him as commander or not. They voted yes, and he and the militia soon dparted Gonzales for safer ground to the East.
The John Wayne movie shows Houston (Richard Boone) meeting in San Antonio with Travis and other officers after the 1st battle of Bexar stating tha Bowie 'won a battle, and got drunk afterwards". That meeting never took place in real life and in fact, Bowie was not at the Alamo during that period. He, like most of the volunteers from the 1st battle of Bexar had returned home. (Bowies was not even present in Bexar during the final victory at Bexar in Dec 1835, but was there during the earlier Grass Battle and the Battle of Conception) It was also not Houston that initially ordered Travis to "get some volunteers and go..' to Bexar. It was Provisional gov Henry Smith along with other members of that fractured council. Houston was still dealing with the Cherokee Indians.
Houston met with Bowie in January at Goliad and ordered him back to Bexar to access the situation and destroy the mission, as Houston was not in favor of further defending Bexar. He viewed it as an insignificant military post and too far South and West to be easily defendable. This is a transcript of one of the letters Houston sent to Gov Smith Jan 17, 1836. “I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished, and if you should think well of it, I will remove all the cannon and other munitions of war to Gonzales and Copano, blow up the Alamo and abandon the place.”
Once Bowie arrived back in Bexar tho, he decided the town and fortifications too valuable to abandon and the rest is history.
It says Texas was won by an amalgamation of citizens from other states. SALUTE!, to them!
If this is accurate, only a few of the defenders were actually Texans. Though, Americans (and others) from all over died for a worthy cause.
Defenders Name Rank Birth year Birthplace Juan Abamillo SGT — Texas James L. Allen PVT 1815 Kentucky Robert Allen PVT — Virginia Horace Alsbury PVT 1805 Kentucky George Andrews — — — Miles DeForest Andross PVT 1809 Vermont José María Arocha — — — Simon Arreola — — — Micajah Autry PVT 1793[34] North Carolina Jesse B. Badgett — 1807 Texas A. Badillo SGT — Texas Peter James Bailey III PVT 1812 Kentucky Isaac G. Baker PVT 1814 Arkansas William Charles M. Baker CPT — Missouri John Ballard — — — John J. Ballentine PVT — Pennsylvania Richard W. Ballentine PVT 1814 Scotland Andrew Barcena — — — John J. Baugh CPT 1803 Virginia Samuel G. Bastain — — Louisiana Joseph Bayliss PVT 1808 Tennessee John Walker Baylor Jr. PVT 1813 Kentucky Anselmo Bergara — — Mexico John Blair PVT 1803 Tennessee Samuel Blair CPT 1807 Tennessee William Blazeby CPT 1795 England James Bonham 2LT 1807 South Carolina Daniel Bourne PVT 1810 England James Bowie COL c. 1796 Kentucky J. B. Bowman — — — Robert Brown PVT c. 1818 James Buchanan PVT 1813 Alabama Samuel E. Burns PVT 1810 Ireland George D. Butler PVT 1813 Missouri John Cain PVT 1802 Pennsylvania Robert Campbell LT 1810 Tennessee William R. Carey CPT 1806 [b]Virginia[/b] Cesario Carmona — — — M.B. Clark PVT — Mississippi Daniel W. Cloud PVT 1812 Kentucky Robert E. Cochran PVT 1810 New Hampshire George Washington Cottle LT 1811 Missouri Henry Courtman PVT 1808 Germany Lemuel Crawford PVT 1814 South Carolina David Crockett COL 1786 Tennessee Robert Crossman PVT 1810 Pennsylvania Antonio Cruz y Arocha PVT — Mexico David P. Cummings PVT 1809 Pennsylvania Robert Cunningham PVT 1804 New York Matias Curvier — — — Jacob C. Darst LT 1793 Kentucky John Davis PVT 1811 Kentucky Freeman H.K. Day PVT 1806 Squire Daymon PVT 1808 Tennessee William Dearduff PVT c. 1811 Tennessee Alexandro De la Garza PVT — Texas Stephen Dennison PVT 1812 ]England or Ireland Francis L. DeSauque CPT — Pennsylvania John Desauque — — Louisiana Charles Despallier PVT 1812 Louisiana Lewis Dewall PVT 1812 New York Almaron Dickinson CPT 1810 Tennessee James Dickson — — — John Henry Dillard PVT 1805 Tennessee Philip Dimmitt CPT 1801 Kentucky James R. Dimpkins SGT — England Andrew Duvalt PVT 1804 Ireland Samuel M. Edwards — — — Conrad Eigenauer — — — J.D. Elliott — — — Frederick E. Elm — — — Lucio Enriques — — — Carlos Espalier PVT 1819 Texas José Gregorio Esparza PVT 1802 Texas Robert Evans MAJ 1800 Ireland Samuel B. Evans PVT 1812 New York James L. Ewing PVT 1812 Tennessee William Keener Fauntleroy PVT 1814 Kentucky William Fishbaugh PVT — Alabama John Flanders PVT 1800 Salisbury, Massachusetts Manuel N. Flores — c.1801 Texas Salvador Flores CPT 1806 Texas Dolphin Ward Floyd PVT 1804 North Carolina John Hubbard Forsyth CPT 1797 New York Antonio Fuentes PVT 1813 Texas Galba Fuqua PVT 1819 Alabama William Garnett PVT 1812 Virginia James W. Garrand PVT 1813 Louisiana James Girard Garrett PVT 1806 Tennessee John E. Garvin PVT 1809 — John E. Gaston PVT 1819 — James George PVT 1802 — William George — — — James Gibson — — — John C. Goodrich CNT 1809 Virginia Francis H. Gray — — — W.T. Green — — — Albert Calvin Grimes PVT 1817 Georgia Ignacio Gurrea — — — Brigido Guerrero PVT — Mexico James C. Gwin PVT 1804 England John Harris PVT 1813 Kentucky Andrew Jackson Harrison PVT 1809 Tennessee I.L.K. Harrison — — — William B. Harrison CPT 1811 Ohio Joseph M. Hawkins PVT 1799 Ireland John M. Hays PVT 1814 Tennessee Charles M. Heiskell PVT 1813 Tennessee Patrick Henry Herndon PVT 1802 Virginia Pedro Herrera — — — William Daniel Hersee SGT 1805 England Benjamin Franklin Highsmith PVT 1817 Missouri Tapley Holland PVT 1810 Ohio James Holloway — — — Samuel Holloway PVT 1808 Pennsylvania William D. Howell — 1791 Massachusetts William Hunter — — — Thomas P. Hutchinson — — — William A. Irwin — — — Thomas R. Jackson PVT — Ireland William Daniel Jackson LT 1807 Kentucky Green B. Jameson MAJ 1807 Kentucky Gordon C. Jennings CPL 1780 Connecticut Damacio Jiménez PVT — Texas John Johnson PVT 1800 Missouri Lewis Johnson PVT — Illinois William Johnson PVT — Pennsylvania[font=Arial][/font] William P. Johnson SGT — — John Jones 1LT 1810 New York John Benjamin Kellogg LT 1817 Kentucky James Kenny PVT 1814 Virginia Andrew Kent PVT 1791 Kentucy Joseph Kent — — — Joseph Kerr PVT 1814 Louisiana George C. Kimble LT 1803 Pennsylvania John C. Kin — — — William Philip King PVT 1820 Mississippi William Irvine Lewis PVT 1806 Virginia William J. Lightfoot 3CPL 1805 Kentucky Jonathan Lindley PVT 1814 Illinois William Linn PVT — Massachusetts Byrd Lockhart CPT 1782 Virginia Toribio Losoya PVT 1808 Texas George Washington Main LT 1807 Virginia William T. Malone PVT 1817 Georgia William Marshall PVT 1808 Tennessee Albert Martin 1808 Rhode Island Samuel Augustus Maverick PVT 1803 South Carolina Edward McCafferty LT — — Ross McClelland — — — Daniel McCoy Jr. — — — Prospect McCoy — — — William McDowell PVT 1794 Pennsylvania James McGee PVT — Ireland John McGregor SGT — Scotland Robert McKinney PVT 1809 Ireland S.W. McNeilly — — — Eliel Melton QM, LT 1798 Georgia Antonio Menchaca — 1800 Texas Thomas R. Miller PVT 1795 Tennessee William Mills PVT 1815 Tennessee Isaac Millsaps PVT c. 1795 Mississippi Edward F. Mitchasson — 1806 Virginia Edwin T. Mitchell PVT 1806 — Napoleon B. Mitchell PVT 1804 — Robert B. Moore PVT 1781 Virginia Willis A. Moore PVT 1808 John Morman — — — fatality William Morrison — — — Robert Musselman SGT 1805 Ohio James Nash — — — Andrés Nava SGT 1810 Texas Gerald Navan PVT — — George Neggan PVT 1808 South Carolina Andrew M. Nelson PVT 1809 Tennessee Edward Nelson PVT 1816 South Carolina George Nelson PVT 1805 South Carolina Benjamin F. Nobles LT — — James Northcross PVT 1804 Virginia James Nowlan PVT 1809 England L.R. O'Neil — — — George Olamio PVT — Ireland William Sanders Oury PVT 1817 Virginia Jose Sebastian "Luciano" Pacheco — — — George Pagan PVT 1810 — Christopher Adams Parker PVT 1814 William Parks PVT 1805 North Carolina William Patton AQM, LT 1808 Kentucky Richardson Perry PVT 1817 Mississippi Amos Pollard — 1803 Massachusetts Eduardo Ramirez — — — John Purdy Reynolds PVT 1806 Pennsylvania Thomas H. Roberts PVT — — James Waters Robertson PVT 1812 Tennessee Ambrosio Rodriguez — — — Guadalupe Rodriquez — — — James M. Rose PVT 1805 Ohio Jacob Roth MAJ — — Jackson J. Rusk PVT — Ireland Joseph Rutherford 1798 Kentucky Isaac Ryan PVT 1805 Louisiana W.H. Sanders — — — Mial Scurlock PVT 1809 North Carolina Juan Seguín CPT 1806 Texas Marcus L. Sewell PVT 1805 England Manson Shied PVT 1811 Georgia Silvero — — — Cleveland Kinloch Simmons LT 1815 South Carolina Andrew H. Smith PVT 1815 Tennessee Charles S. Smith PVT 1806 Maryland John William Smith — 1792 Virginia Joshua G. Smith SGT 1808 North Carolina William H. Smith PVT 1811 — Launcelot Smither PVT 1800 — Andrew Jackson Sowell PVT 1815 Tennessee John Spratt — — — Richard Starr PVT 1811 England James E. Stewart PVT 1808 England Richard L. Stockton PVT 1817 New Jersey A. Spain Summerlin PVT 1817 Tennessee William E. Summers PVT 1812 Tennessee John Sutherland PVT 1792 Virginia William DePriest Sutherland PVT 1818 Alabama Edward Taylor PVT 1812 Tennessee George Taylor PVT 1816 Tennessee James Taylor PVT 1814 Tennessee William Taylor PVT 1799 Tennessee B. Archer M. Thomas PVT 1818 Kentucky Henry Thomas PVT 1811 Germany Thompson — — — John W. Thomson PVT 1807 North Carolina John, M. Thurston 2LT 1812 Pennsylvania Burke Trammel PVT 1810 Ireland Joe Travis — 1813 or 1815 Alabama William B. Travis LTC 1809 South Carolina George W. Tumlinson PVT 1814 Missouri James Tylee, James PVT 1795 New York Asa Walker PVT 1813 Tennessee Jacob Walker PVT 1799 Tennessee William B. Ward SGT 1806 Ireland Henry Warnell PVT 1812 Arkansas Joseph G. Washington PVT c. 1808 Tennessee Thomas Waters PVT 1812 England William Wells PVT 1798 Georgia Isaac White SGT — — Robert White CPT 1806 England Hiram James Williamson SMA 1810 Pennsylvania William Wills — — — David L. Wilson PVT 1807 Scotland John Wilson PVT 1804 Pennsylvania Anthony Wolf PVT 1782 — Claiborne Wright PVT 1810 North Carolina Charles Zanco LT 1808 Denmark Vicente Zepeda — — —
Just a quick glance and it appears there were more Kentuckians and Tennesseans there than Texans. Who knew............ Edited: Seeing it highlighted with the different states colored as they are puts a whole different perspective on defending the Alamo.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-17-2021).]
Originally posted by blackrams: If this is accurate, only a few of the defenders were actually Texans.
Just a quick glance and it appears there were more Kentuckians and Tennesseans there than Texans. Who knew............ Edited: Seeing it highlighted with the different states colored as they are puts a whole different perspective on defending the Alamo.
Rams
It's not accurate. Where did you get that ?
It lists (I counted) 255 Alamo defenders. The ?fable? goes ...
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
..."185, holding back 5,000.
Most glaring in you discovery, is that only three defenders were from the State of Texas. Which did not exist yet. I also only saw three people who were from Mexico. Ludicrous. Fact is, Santa Anna had no desires in his Tejas territory. He allowed people to come in freely to develop it for him. There was much freedom and people came from all over to bask in it. From Mexico, the United States, and your list even listed some from ..., three from Scotland, eleven from England, nine from Ireland, one from "England or Ireland", and one from Denmark.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams: If this is accurate, only a few of the defenders were actually Texans. Though, Americans (and others) from all over died for a worthy cause.
quote
Originally posted by sourmash: Some of us knew. Not always, or necessarily in this thread, but frequently Texans need to be reminded. It's always an opportunity to inform readers.
Your right. Let me take this opportunity to inform YOU. All those people did not rush in to save three Texans. They were Tejanos, as the territory was know as Tejas.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams: ... Americans (and others) from all over died for a worthy cause.
Pretty sure there's a link provided as to where I got it. I'm not sure where you came up with that "three" Texans number and I definitely did not suggest Texas was a state anywhere.
quote
Identifying the combatants Below are 256 known combatants: 212 who died during the siege, 43 survivors, and one escapee who later died of his wounds.
Mexican Colonel Juan Almonte, Santa Anna's aide-de-camp, recorded the Texian fatality toll as 250 in his March 6 journal entry. He listed the survivors as five women, one Mexican soldier and one slave. Almonte did not record names, and his count was based solely on who was there during the final assault.[15] Santa Anna reported to Mexico's Secretary of War Tornel that Texian fatalities exceeded 600. Historians Jack Jackson and John Wheat attributed that high figure to Santa Anna's playing to his political base.[16]
Research into the battle, and exactly who was inside the fortress, began when the Alamo fell and has continued with no signs of abatement. The first published Texian list of casualties was in the March 24, 1836 issue of the Telegraph and Texas Register. The 115 names were supplied by couriers John Smith and Gerald Navan,[17] whom historian Thomas Ricks Lindley believed likely drew from their own memories, as well as from interviews with those who might have left or tried to enter.[18] In an 1860 statement for the Texas Almanac, former San Antonio alcalde (mayor) Francisco Antonio Ruiz set the number at 182.[19]
When the Alamo Cenotaph was created by Pompeo Coppini in 1939, the 187 defender names on the monument came from the research of Amelia Williams,[20] considered the leading Alamo authority of her day.[21] Her work is still used by some as a benchmark, although skepticism has been voiced. Lindley's 2003 Alamo Traces: New Evidence and New Conclusions is the result of his 15-year study of the battle, and upended much of what was previously accepted as fact.[22] He devoted a chapter to deconstructing Williams' research as "misrepresentation, alteration, and fabrication of data",[23] criticizing her sole reliance on the military land grants without checking through the muster lists to identify the combatants.[24] In lieu of service pay, the cash-poor Republic of Texas adopted the system of military land grants. Issuance was dependent upon the military muster lists and either the veterans or their heirs filing a claim, a process that required an upfront fee to complete. Lacking a completed claim, proof of service would appear only on a muster list.[25]
In the pursuit of uncovering every infinitesimal piece of evidence about what happened during the battle, more thorough research methods continue to evolve and Tejanos have begun to add their voices. Until recent decades, accounts of Tejano participation in the Texas revolution were notably absent, but historians such as Timothy M. Matovina[26] and Jesús F. de la Teja[27] have helped add that missing perspective to the battle's events.
The above information is from the same Wikipedia link. If there's a problem with the linked information, take it up with Wikipedia, not me.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-18-2021).]
If this is accurate, only a few of the defenders were actually Texans. Though, Americans (and others) from all over died for a worthy cause.
Defenders Name Rank Birth year Birthplace Juan Abamillo SGT — Texas James L. Allen PVT 1815 Kentucky Robert Allen PVT — Virginia Horace Alsbury PVT 1805 Kentucky George Andrews — — — Miles DeForest Andross PVT 1809 Vermont José María Arocha — — — Simon Arreola — — — Micajah Autry PVT 1793[34] North Carolina Jesse B. Badgett — 1807 Texas A. Badillo SGT — Texas Peter James Bailey III PVT 1812 Kentucky Isaac G. Baker PVT 1814 Arkansas William Charles M. Baker CPT — Missouri John Ballard — — — John J. Ballentine PVT — Pennsylvania Richard W. Ballentine PVT 1814 Scotland Andrew Barcena — — — John J. Baugh CPT 1803 Virginia Samuel G. Bastain — — Louisiana Joseph Bayliss PVT 1808 Tennessee John Walker Baylor Jr. PVT 1813 Kentucky Anselmo Bergara — — Mexico John Blair PVT 1803 Tennessee Samuel Blair CPT 1807 Tennessee William Blazeby CPT 1795 England James Bonham 2LT 1807 South Carolina Daniel Bourne PVT 1810 England James Bowie COL c. 1796 Kentucky J. B. Bowman — — — Robert Brown PVT c. 1818 James Buchanan PVT 1813 Alabama Samuel E. Burns PVT 1810 Ireland George D. Butler PVT 1813 Missouri John Cain PVT 1802 Pennsylvania Robert Campbell LT 1810 Tennessee William R. Carey CPT 1806 [b]Virginia[/b] Cesario Carmona — — — M.B. Clark PVT — Mississippi Daniel W. Cloud PVT 1812 Kentucky Robert E. Cochran PVT 1810 New Hampshire George Washington Cottle LT 1811 Missouri Henry Courtman PVT 1808 Germany Lemuel Crawford PVT 1814 South Carolina David Crockett COL 1786 Tennessee Robert Crossman PVT 1810 Pennsylvania Antonio Cruz y Arocha PVT — Mexico David P. Cummings PVT 1809 Pennsylvania Robert Cunningham PVT 1804 New York Matias Curvier — — — Jacob C. Darst LT 1793 Kentucky John Davis PVT 1811 Kentucky Freeman H.K. Day PVT 1806 Squire Daymon PVT 1808 Tennessee William Dearduff PVT c. 1811 Tennessee Alexandro De la Garza PVT — Texas Stephen Dennison PVT 1812 ]England or Ireland Francis L. DeSauque CPT — Pennsylvania John Desauque — — Louisiana Charles Despallier PVT 1812 Louisiana Lewis Dewall PVT 1812 New York Almaron Dickinson CPT 1810 Tennessee James Dickson — — — John Henry Dillard PVT 1805 Tennessee Philip Dimmitt CPT 1801 Kentucky James R. Dimpkins SGT — England Andrew Duvalt PVT 1804 Ireland Samuel M. Edwards — — — Conrad Eigenauer — — — J.D. Elliott — — — Frederick E. Elm — — — Lucio Enriques — — — Carlos Espalier PVT 1819 Texas José Gregorio Esparza PVT 1802 Texas Robert Evans MAJ 1800 Ireland Samuel B. Evans PVT 1812 New York James L. Ewing PVT 1812 Tennessee William Keener Fauntleroy PVT 1814 Kentucky William Fishbaugh PVT — Alabama John Flanders PVT 1800 Salisbury, Massachusetts Manuel N. Flores — c.1801 Texas Salvador Flores CPT 1806 Texas Dolphin Ward Floyd PVT 1804 North Carolina John Hubbard Forsyth CPT 1797 New York Antonio Fuentes PVT 1813 Texas Galba Fuqua PVT 1819 Alabama William Garnett PVT 1812 Virginia James W. Garrand PVT 1813 Louisiana James Girard Garrett PVT 1806 Tennessee John E. Garvin PVT 1809 — John E. Gaston PVT 1819 — James George PVT 1802 — William George — — — James Gibson — — — John C. Goodrich CNT 1809 Virginia Francis H. Gray — — — W.T. Green — — — Albert Calvin Grimes PVT 1817 Georgia Ignacio Gurrea — — — Brigido Guerrero PVT — Mexico James C. Gwin PVT 1804 England John Harris PVT 1813 Kentucky Andrew Jackson Harrison PVT 1809 Tennessee I.L.K. Harrison — — — William B. Harrison CPT 1811 Ohio Joseph M. Hawkins PVT 1799 Ireland John M. Hays PVT 1814 Tennessee Charles M. Heiskell PVT 1813 Tennessee Patrick Henry Herndon PVT 1802 Virginia Pedro Herrera — — — William Daniel Hersee SGT 1805 England Benjamin Franklin Highsmith PVT 1817 Missouri Tapley Holland PVT 1810 Ohio James Holloway — — — Samuel Holloway PVT 1808 Pennsylvania William D. Howell — 1791 Massachusetts William Hunter — — — Thomas P. Hutchinson — — — William A. Irwin — — — Thomas R. Jackson PVT — Ireland William Daniel Jackson LT 1807 Kentucky Green B. Jameson MAJ 1807 Kentucky Gordon C. Jennings CPL 1780 Connecticut Damacio Jiménez PVT — Texas John Johnson PVT 1800 Missouri Lewis Johnson PVT — Illinois William Johnson PVT — Pennsylvania[font=Arial][/font] William P. Johnson SGT — — John Jones 1LT 1810 New York John Benjamin Kellogg LT 1817 Kentucky James Kenny PVT 1814 Virginia Andrew Kent PVT 1791 Kentucy Joseph Kent — — — Joseph Kerr PVT 1814 Louisiana George C. Kimble LT 1803 Pennsylvania John C. Kin — — — William Philip King PVT 1820 Mississippi William Irvine Lewis PVT 1806 Virginia William J. Lightfoot 3CPL 1805 Kentucky Jonathan Lindley PVT 1814 Illinois William Linn PVT — Massachusetts Byrd Lockhart CPT 1782 Virginia Toribio Losoya PVT 1808 Texas George Washington Main LT 1807 Virginia William T. Malone PVT 1817 Georgia William Marshall PVT 1808 Tennessee Albert Martin 1808 Rhode Island Samuel Augustus Maverick PVT 1803 South Carolina Edward McCafferty LT — — Ross McClelland — — — Daniel McCoy Jr. — — — Prospect McCoy — — — William McDowell PVT 1794 Pennsylvania James McGee PVT — Ireland John McGregor SGT — Scotland Robert McKinney PVT 1809 Ireland S.W. McNeilly — — — Eliel Melton QM, LT 1798 Georgia Antonio Menchaca — 1800 Texas Thomas R. Miller PVT 1795 Tennessee William Mills PVT 1815 Tennessee Isaac Millsaps PVT c. 1795 Mississippi Edward F. Mitchasson — 1806 Virginia Edwin T. Mitchell PVT 1806 — Napoleon B. Mitchell PVT 1804 — Robert B. Moore PVT 1781 Virginia Willis A. Moore PVT 1808 John Morman — — — fatality William Morrison — — — Robert Musselman SGT 1805 Ohio James Nash — — — Andrés Nava SGT 1810 Texas Gerald Navan PVT — — George Neggan PVT 1808 South Carolina Andrew M. Nelson PVT 1809 Tennessee Edward Nelson PVT 1816 South Carolina George Nelson PVT 1805 South Carolina Benjamin F. Nobles LT — — James Northcross PVT 1804 Virginia James Nowlan PVT 1809 England L.R. O'Neil — — — George Olamio PVT — Ireland William Sanders Oury PVT 1817 Virginia Jose Sebastian "Luciano" Pacheco — — — George Pagan PVT 1810 — Christopher Adams Parker PVT 1814 William Parks PVT 1805 North Carolina William Patton AQM, LT 1808 Kentucky Richardson Perry PVT 1817 Mississippi Amos Pollard — 1803 Massachusetts Eduardo Ramirez — — — John Purdy Reynolds PVT 1806 Pennsylvania Thomas H. Roberts PVT — — James Waters Robertson PVT 1812 Tennessee Ambrosio Rodriguez — — — Guadalupe Rodriquez — — — James M. Rose PVT 1805 Ohio Jacob Roth MAJ — — Jackson J. Rusk PVT — Ireland Joseph Rutherford 1798 Kentucky Isaac Ryan PVT 1805 Louisiana W.H. Sanders — — — Mial Scurlock PVT 1809 North Carolina Juan Seguín CPT 1806 Texas Marcus L. Sewell PVT 1805 England Manson Shied PVT 1811 Georgia Silvero — — — Cleveland Kinloch Simmons LT 1815 South Carolina Andrew H. Smith PVT 1815 Tennessee Charles S. Smith PVT 1806 Maryland John William Smith — 1792 Virginia Joshua G. Smith SGT 1808 North Carolina William H. Smith PVT 1811 — Launcelot Smither PVT 1800 — Andrew Jackson Sowell PVT 1815 Tennessee John Spratt — — — Richard Starr PVT 1811 England James E. Stewart PVT 1808 England Richard L. Stockton PVT 1817 New Jersey A. Spain Summerlin PVT 1817 Tennessee William E. Summers PVT 1812 Tennessee John Sutherland PVT 1792 Virginia William DePriest Sutherland PVT 1818 Alabama Edward Taylor PVT 1812 Tennessee George Taylor PVT 1816 Tennessee James Taylor PVT 1814 Tennessee William Taylor PVT 1799 Tennessee B. Archer M. Thomas PVT 1818 Kentucky Henry Thomas PVT 1811 Germany Thompson — — — John W. Thomson PVT 1807 North Carolina John, M. Thurston 2LT 1812 Pennsylvania Burke Trammel PVT 1810 Ireland Joe Travis — 1813 or 1815 Alabama William B. Travis LTC 1809 South Carolina George W. Tumlinson PVT 1814 Missouri James Tylee, James PVT 1795 New York Asa Walker PVT 1813 Tennessee Jacob Walker PVT 1799 Tennessee William B. Ward SGT 1806 Ireland Henry Warnell PVT 1812 Arkansas Joseph G. Washington PVT c. 1808 Tennessee Thomas Waters PVT 1812 England William Wells PVT 1798 Georgia Isaac White SGT — — Robert White CPT 1806 England Hiram James Williamson SMA 1810 Pennsylvania William Wills — — — David L. Wilson PVT 1807 Scotland John Wilson PVT 1804 Pennsylvania Anthony Wolf PVT 1782 — Claiborne Wright PVT 1810 North Carolina Charles Zanco LT 1808 Denmark Vicente Zepeda — — —
Just a quick glance and it appears there were more Kentuckians and Tennesseans there than Texans. Who knew............ Edited: Seeing it highlighted with the different states colored as they are puts a whole different perspective on defending the Alamo.
Rams
The list exceeds the # of official members that fought & died at the Alamo because it is a list of all that were known to have remained there AFTER the 1st Battle of Bexar. There is a reason, which I previously stated, why there were no Texas born Anglos at the Battle of the Alamo. The list has at least one error in it. Not surprising considering the source. Jesse B Badgett was born (approx 1807) in North Carolina as was his brother Andrew. Both had property in Arkansas as adults and they crossed into Texas from Louisiana in Nov 1835 and in Dec 1835 enlisted. Jesse Badgett was elected as a delegate to the Texas Convention of 1836, departed Bexar on Feb 17, 1836 and on March 3, 1836 was a signer of the Texas Declaration of Independence at Washington-on-the Brazos. He returned to Arkansas in early April (before the Battle of San Jacinto) and it is believed he died there. Jesse B Badgett left the Alamo in San Antonio, Bexar colony for Washington-on-the-Brazos, Texas on February 17, 1836. This was a 169 mile trip from the Alamo, either by foot or horse. He missed the entire Siege and Battle of the Alamo.
The delegates to the Convention at Washington-on-the-Brazos arrived on March 1, 1836, drafted the declaration of Independence, and rehashed it March 2, signed on March 2, and 3, 1836.
Jesse's name is first on the list of signers of the Declaration.
The list exceeds the # of official members that fought & died at the Alamo because it is a list of all that were known to have remained there AFTER the 1st Battle of Bexar. There is a reason, which I previously stated, why there were no Texas born Anglos at the Battle of the Alamo. The list has at least one error in it. Not surprising considering the source. Jesse B Badgett was born (approx 1807) in North Carolina as was his brother Andrew. Both had property in Arkansas as adults and they crossed into Texas from Louisiana in Nov 1835 and in Dec 1835 enlisted. Jesse Badgett was elected as a delegate to the Texas Convention of 1836, departed Bexar on Feb 17, 1836 and on March 3, 1836 was a signer of the Texas Declaration of Independence at Washington-on-the Brazos. He returned to Arkansas in early April (before the Battle of San Jacinto) and it is believed he died there. Jesse B Badgett left the Alamo in San Antonio, Bexar colony for Washington-on-the-Brazos, Texas on February 17, 1836. This was a 169 mile trip from the Alamo, either by foot or horse. He missed the entire Siege and Battle of the Alamo.
The delegates to the Convention at Washington-on-the-Brazos arrived on March 1, 1836, drafted the declaration of Independence, and rehashed it March 2, signed on March 2, and 3, 1836.
Jesse's name is first on the list of signers of the Declaration.
The closest chronological muster to Mar 6 1836 of Travis's command carries 194 names, as does Alamo.Org. 3 are known to have been non-combatants & survived the final battle and 2 were sent out as couriers on Mar 5. Of the 3 survivors, 2 were slaves and one was a Mexican Army deserter that convinced Santa Anna he had been a POW and his life was spared.
The closest chronological muster to Mar 6 1836 of Travis's command carries 194 names, as does Alamo.Org. 3 are known to have been non-combatants & survived the final battle and 2 were sent out as couriers on Mar 5. Of the 3 survivors, 2 were slaves and one was a Mexican Army deserter that convinced Santa Anna he had been a POW and his life was spared.
Originally posted by maryjane: Of the 3 survivors, 2 were slaves and one was a Mexican Army deserter that convinced Santa Anna he had been a POW and his life was spared.
Uhh, Susanna Dickinson, husband of defender Almaron Dickinson, and their daughter Angelina, their lives were also spared.
I thought it was three survivors. One slave (who I hear had permission to leave), Susanna Dickinson, and her daughter Angelina.
I think an old Roman tactic. Leave a couple of survivors to spread the fear.
Uhh, Susanna Dickinson, husband of defender Almaron Dickinson, and their daughter Angelina, their lives were also spared.
I thought it was three survivors. One slave (who I hear had permission to leave), Susanna Dickinson, and her daughter Angelina.
I think an old Roman tactic. Leave a couple of survivors to spread the fear.
Santa Anna the Butcher of Goliad , had no need to spread the fear by way of survivors. His reputation had preceded him even before he arrived in Bexar for the 2nd time.
In the meantime, since the fall of The Alamo, ... , Houston and the Texian army "fled" north east. The Mexican army was celebrating their victory, more so the Mexican elites. The rank and file were piling all the dead bodies in a pile, to be burned. (I am unsure if Mexican army dead bodies were piled on top of Texian bodies.) The ... "burn site" was made into a monument, a pyre.
As Sam Houston was "fleeing" he was enlisting recruits. Plenty of pissed off volunteers, (like 9/11). The pissed off troops were getting more pissed off because Houston would not let them fight for vengance.
After the Mexican celebration, Santa Anna pursued the Texians to crush them for once and all. (The Mexicans had faced far too many embarrassments.) Raiding towns and pillaging then burning villages in their pursuit.
The Mexican army, feeling embolden by victories and the "seemingly fleeing" Texian army, was hoping to trap the Texian army. Sam Houston, could have jumped the border and fled to Louisiana, the United States. The "chase" ended around what is now known as Houston Texas.
The Mexicans, feeling invincible, never posted guards, thinking they would never be attacked by an inferior army. The Texian scouts reported that the enemy was having a big azz party.
Sam Houston decided to pounce. Early in the morning as the Mexicans were "hanging over" or asleep still, the Texians charged. Yelling "Remember the Alamo, remember Goliad". Charging from the direction of the morning sun blinding the Mexicans.
The battle was over in 18 minutes, 18 minutes. Eighteen minutes to defeat the "Napoléon of the West". The Mexican army fled in fear. Yet their backs were to a body of water. Nowhere to flee.
Santa Anna, concerned, ordered a Private to exchange uniforms. As the Texians were rounding up "prisoners of war", the Texians noticed every prisoner were saluting a Private. It was Santa Anna.
Many of the Texians wanted to play "El Degüello" and put Santa Anna to death. Just as Santa Anna had done at the Battle of the Alamo and also at Goliad.
Sam Houston had a different tact. He allowed Santa Anna to live, if he ceded Texas, which he did.
What Sam Houston did was brilliance. He lured away Santa Anna from his resuppy lines, reinforcement lines.
I am Texas proud, born in England, been here since the fifth grade, 1968 . I would love to hear of the history of your States.
Did 'ga know, ... , the San Jacinto monument is taller than the Washington monument in Washington DC ? Did 'ga know, the Texas State Capitol dome is taller than the US Capitol dome ? Did 'ga know, that the San Jacinto monument also has a Reflection Pool ?
quote
Originally posted by maryjane: April 21,1836, the day that changed America forever.
Hmm. Perhaps that would be the day that we surrendered to the United States, and became the 28th State. Why did we do that ? I don't know. We did join the Confederacy.
I feel the oppression today is just as onerous.
Now, ... ,
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
Can I play Bob Wills now?
You did and thank you.
Did "ga know, besides the San Antonio Rose, there is the Yellow Rose of Texas ? Did 'ga know that you can pull s battleship with a crunt hair ?
In the fall of 1835, a free African-American woman from Connecticut named Emily D. West signed a one-year contract with Colonel James Morgan to work as a housekeeper in New Washington (later known as Morgan’s Point), a small settlement in Texas. In mid-April 1836, Mexican troops commanded by General Antonio López de Santa Anna arrived at New Washington. After looting and burning the settlement, Santa Anna and his soldiers forced Emily West to accompany them when they left several days later. According to legend, West was in Santa Anna’s tent on April 21, when Sam Houston’s Texian Army charged the Mexican camp in the Battle of San Jacinto.
This rendition of the the rendition of the Yellow Rose of Texas does feature the Confederate Flag, but ... you can pull a battle ship with a crunt hair.
Me ?
. My local DJ has a Texas trivia question every day of the year. I think it was Wednesday he said on that date, Houston arrived in Gonzales, TX and assumed command of the Texas Army.
