Texas federal judge rules CDC's pandemic eviction moratorium unconstitutional

https://www.msn.com/en-us/n...1e3kqP?ocid=msedgntp

Depending on your perspective, this could be good news or not so good news.
Will most likely be taken to a higher court.
I know this, I'm glad I don't rent and am not a landlord.

Rams

All it is, is a question of who takes it in the shorts. The renters. The landlords. Or the mortgage holder.
I wonder how many people who were problem tenants, and were cruising towards an eviction even before the current crisis, are still in place, and currently "protected".
Pretty much every action has consequences.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: All it is, is a question of who takes it in the shorts. The renters. The landlords. Or the mortgage holder. I wonder how many people who were problem tenants, and were cruising towards an eviction even before the current crisis, are still in place, and currently "protected". Pretty much every action has consequences.

Well, I believe the Judge is correct, I don't believe the government has the right to tell a landlord who isn't getting paid that the renter can't be evicted. Once Renter has had due process, if they aren't paying the rent, they should be outta there. That may sound cold but, no one has been promised a rose garden.

Rams

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I don't believe the government has the right to tell a landlord who isn't getting paid that the renter can't be evicted.

For one it wasn't the government per say. It was The Center for Disease Control. They have no regulatory authority. The merely provide guidance.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: For one it wasn't the government per say. It was The Center for Disease Control. They have no regulatory authority. The merely provide guidance.

I beg to differ.

quote Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Institute Centers for Disease Control and Prevention The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is a national public health institute in the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services, and is headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia.

quote As the nation’s public health protection agency, CDC has certain authorities to implement regulations related to protecting America from health and safety threats, both foreign and within the United States, and increasing public health security. CDC and other agencies implement public health laws passed by Congress through Federal Regulations.

quote CDC’s role in rules and regulations As the nation’s public health protection agency, CDC has certain authorities to implement regulations related to protecting America from health and safety threats, both foreign and within the United States, and increasing public health security. CDC and other agencies implement public health laws passed by Congress through Federal Regulations. After a Congressional bill becomes law, federal agencies may be responsible for putting the law into action through the development of regulations—also known as “rules.” Federal regulations give the public details or specific requirements of how the law will be applied. The process of creating regulations or rules is called rulemaking. What are CDC’s regulatory authorities? Click on each public health program in the boxes below for information on CDC’s regulatory authorities. You can also find the official text of CDC regulations published in the Code of Federal Regulations under Title 42—Public HealthExternal.

This was CDC's ruling supported by the President. I don't see how this could be any more government.
But, just because the CDC has regulatory jurisdiction on some aspects, doesn't mean they can stop evictions. Just my (and the Judge's) opinion.
The CDC overreached their authority (at least as it currently stands).

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-27-2021).]

How many people that were capable of paying their rent, didn't because the government said they could not be evicted if the did not?

quote Originally posted by LitebulbwithaFiero: How many people that were capable of paying their rent, didn't because the government said they could not be evicted if the did not?

I can't give you a number but, I know of several (three) landlords that will soon be losing their investments due to lack of payment.
They can't make their payments to the loaning institutions due to not being able to enforce their rental contracts. This judgement is way too late to save many.
Yeah, I feel bad for the renter's that lost their jobs due to the Pandemic and had to make some hard decisions. But, I also know of one family that actually made more than their usual pay during the government payout period of COVID due to the increased unemployment benefits and still didn't pay their rent. They (or he) actually bragged about making more money to me.

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-27-2021).]

CDC is always being called "private" and not government by Mike Rivero on whatreallyhappened.com . His site is a news gathering one like Drudge except he's not a mainstream media stooge like Drudge.
Never bothered to search if the CDC quasi government or not because it's not that important to me to this point. Someone else who wants to play superhero can search-engine it.

Government is preventing evictions so society doesn't collapse faster and people don't march in the streets sooner. They're throwing the owners on the brush pile instead. The ultimate goal is no private property anyway.

I suppose it is just a coincidence that much of the government's reaction to covid has destroyed many small businesses. Amazon and Microsoft seem to be doing just fine, though.

When the small landlords are forced into default, the big banks are going to have a field day.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 02-27-2021).]

My cousin has a rental property and renter just stopped paying rent, yet my cousin has to pay the taxes etc on the property.

When it comes to business and money and...

Some of them need an attitude adjustment, a punch in the face, and nipples burned off with an electrode.

Long time ago, dude, but I've had more than my share of run-ins with them.

I had one try and tell me I'd think what I was told, do what I was told, eat what I was told and wear what I was told.....24/6/365

Go screw yourself ****

Late 90's place in Toronto...900 bucks for an illegal basement apartment, and this cow is trying to tell me I cant fry bacon because it smells or have girls over because her kid hears the sex upstairs...

Kiss my ass, **** , and go back to whatever Serbian hole you crawled out of !!!!

Ya got your 900 bucks, now shut the **** up and go the **** away.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 02-27-2021).]

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: My cousin has a rental property and renter just stopped paying rent, yet my cousin has to pay the taxes etc on the property.

Luckily (I assume), his property is paid for and taxes are the only things he responsible for. The three folks I mentioned previously all have bank loan on their property. All three have been using their savings until that was used up and then borrowed money to keep up on their payments until that well ran dry. I'm told all three will be going under this month or next.

Being a landlord doesn't appear to be everything one wants in life. Especially with Uncle Sugar being so helpful.

Rams

quote Originally posted by cliffw: For one it wasn't the government per say. It was The Center for Disease Control. They have no regulatory authority. The merely provide guidance.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I beg to differ.

Differ at your own peril, . Are you up for the test ?

quote Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Institute Centers for Disease Control and Prevention The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is a national public health institute in the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services, and is headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia.

The Department of Health and Human Services do write regulatory "rules". Which are actually "laws". Which should not be permitted. Congress writes laws and possibly passes them.

quote As the nation’s public health protection agency, CDC has certain authorities to implement regulations related to protecting America from health and safety threats, both foreign and within the United States, and increasing public health security. CDC and other agencies implement public health laws passed by Congress through Federal Regulations.

Laws passed by regulation ? They were not passed. They were dictated, .

quote CDC’s role in rules and regulations As the nation’s public health protection agency, CDC has certain authorities to implement regulations related to protecting America from health and safety threats, both foreign and within the United States, and increasing public health security.

How come the CDC did not dictate mask, two mask mandates ? Who issued business shut downs ?

quote CDC and other agencies implement public health laws passed by Congress through Federal Regulations. After a Congressional bill becomes law, federal agencies may be responsible for putting the law into action through the development of regulations—also known as “rules.” Federal regulations give the public details or specific requirements of how the law will be applied. The process of creating regulations or rules is called rule making.

Does that sound familiar ? Blackrams, you are old enough to should have learned history, back when schools used to teach it. The Kind of England used to dictate law and installed many regulatory Czars in the Colonies that made regulations/rules. That didn't work out to well for the English Empire.

quote What are CDC’s regulatory authorities? Click on each public health program in the boxes below for information on CDC’s regulatory authorities. You can also find the official text of CDC regulations published in the Code of Federal Regulations under Title 42—Public HealthExternal.

I will look into this.

quote This was CDC's ruling supported by the President. I don't see how this could be any more government. But, just because the CDC has regulatory jurisdiction on some aspects, doesn't mean they can stop evictions. Just my (and the Judge's) opinion. The CDC overreached their authority (at least as it currently stands). Rams

I still maintain that the CDC can not pass rules and regulations.

I will look into CDC regulations published in the Code of Federal Regulations under Title 42—Public HealthExternal.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 02-27-2021).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I will look into CDC regulations published in the Code of Federal Regulations under Title 42—Public HealthExternal.

Do as you wish. Believe what you want, don't really care.
Was told once that you don't know what, you don't know.
Slow down before you miss a curve in the road and hurt yourself.
You can feel however you wish but, that doesn't make you right.
BTW, what's your point, the CDC isn't government?

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-27-2021).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I still maintain that the CDC can not pass rules and regulations. I will look into CDC regulations published in the Code of Federal Regulations under Title 42—Public HealthExternal.

https://www.cdc.gov/regulat...gulations/index.html

I have spoken out here on this forum against federal regulatory over reach many times.

Having dealt with the FMCSA over the years, it is one of my pet peeves. I think Blackrams has the same kind of experience with OSHA.

quote Originally posted by williegoat: https://www.cdc.gov/regulat...gulations/index.html I have spoken out here on this forum against federal regulatory over reach many times. Having dealt with the FMCSA over the years, it is one of my pet peeves. I think Blackrams has the same kind of experience with OSHA.

Over reach is a problem with every government agency, I think some of it is for self preservation, we have to make ourselves important.
Ever seen a list of all the state agencies in CA? It's unbelievable.
This is just the Executive Branch: 231 agencies.

The Government of California's executive branch includes numerous agencies. [1]

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Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-27-2021).]

As one should expect that there is very much rampant lies and fraud surrounding this eviction moratorium.

I know landlords who haven't received anything from their tenants since the pandemic, yet these tenants still go out and party and live very much normal lives.

They used the pandemic eviction moratorium. Yes there is paperwork the tenants need to fill out, but they just lie on it. These are your typical democrat constituents and Biden voters. People that don't put grocery carts in the corrals. Just pathetic people who brag about the "unemployment life" with their $400-$600 extra a week sipping on margaritas at On The Border while tipping their servers nothing.

The state of Kansas, mind you a very small population in this state, had a legislative audit that $600 million dollars.... THAT IS $600 MILLION, was paid out in fraudulent unemployment payments to over 50,000 people since COVID. They have since turned this list over to the FBI, but I doubt they will do anything.
Then there is the true victim. Those that are truly unemployed and need their unemployment only to find out that someone else has already used their name and ss# to process their unemployment and these are the same people who are probably getting evicted too, as they are too proud to squat on someone's property.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: As one should expect that there is very much rampant lies and fraud surrounding this eviction moratorium. I know landlords who haven't received anything from their tenants since the pandemic, yet these tenants still go out and party and live very much normal lives. They used the pandemic eviction moratorium. Yes there is paperwork the tenants need to fill out, but they just lie on it. These are your typical democrat constituents and Biden voters. People that don't put grocery carts in the corrals. Just pathetic people who brag about the "unemployment life" with their $400-$600 extra a week sipping on margaritas at On The Border while tipping their servers nothing. The state of Kansas, mind you a very small population in this state, had a legislative audit that $600 million dollars.... THAT IS $600 MILLION, was paid out in fraudulent unemployment payments to over 50,000 people since COVID. They have since turned this list over to the FBI, but I doubt they will do anything. Then there is the true victim. Those that are truly unemployed and need their unemployment only to find out that someone else has already used their name and ss# to process their unemployment and these are the same people who are probably getting evicted too, as they are too proud to squat on someone's property.

Ironically, a life long best friend has received multiple letters from his state telling him to apply for his COVID Un-Employment. He keeps calling them and telling them he's not out of a job. Just spoke with him this weekend, said he had received his third letter and wasn't calling them again. He's not filed for that check either.

Rams

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Was told once that you don't know what you don't know.

They told me that about you too, . Kidding.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: You can feel however you wish but, that doesn't make you right.

I read your "regulation" and it appears that I am wrong. Although, ... I can not think of any CDC regulation. Not that I can think of any of the 3,000+ pages of the Unaffordable Care Act that the alphabet HHC Services minions wrote.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: BTW, what's your point, the CDC isn't government?

I truly thought it was a not partisan entity.
Rams

[/QUOTE]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I read your "regulation" and it appears that I am wrong. Although, ... I can not think of any CDC regulation. Not that I can think of any of the 3,000+ pages of the Unaffordable Care Act that the alphabet HHC Services minions wrote.

Whoa there Big Fellla................... First, it's not my regulation. If it was, it'd be one hell of a lot less.

Just about everything from OHSA to CDC is covered and authorized by the Federal Code of Regulations. Congress pretty much authorizes it's agencies a free hand until the public raises a stink.

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-27-2021).]

That is one of the big issues I have with all of the regulatory agencies. As part of the executive branch, they both write and enforce the regulations. So much for checks and balances.

In some cases, they no longer require a public comment period, no Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. They just publish the new rule in the Federal Register along with an effective date.

In an audit, they tell you to provide evidence against yourself and then they decide how big your fine will be. Just like the IRS, if the IRS wrote all of the tax laws themselves.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 02-27-2021).]

A lease / rental agreement is a legal civil contract.

Anytime the federal or state government interferes in a legal civil contract, outside of litigation or new legislation, it is manifestly unlawful.

A disturbingly large number of unlawful things are being done by federal and state governments under the guise of the panic-demic.

Gonna be a lot of fires.

quote Originally posted by sourmash: Gonna be a lot of fires.

That might have been an expectation after during the foreclosure crisis after 2008 but nothing like that ever happened.

I don't know what the delinquency rate for rental properties is right now but I suspect that it is only slightly higher than the mortgage delinquency percentage during the foreclosure crisis. There is a distinct possibility that the percentage may even be lower than the mortgage foreclosure rate was.

One thing is certain though. The same leftists that constantly whine that "(free) health care is a right" will also whine about how free housing is also somehow "a right".

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-28-2021).]

I have a rental, and have no intention of raising my rate because my tenant has paid consistently without failure. There are times he annoys the hell out of me... but at the end of the day, the house is well maintained, and he's never late. Or... I should say he's consistently late by 3 days, every month... lol, but I always get it on the 3rd, every month, without fail... so not really late in my book.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I have a rental, and have no intention of raising my rate because my tenant has paid consistently without failure. There are times he annoys the hell out of me... but at the end of the day, the house is well maintained, and he's never late. Or... I should say he's consistently late by 3 days, every month... lol, but I always get it on the 3rd, every month, without fail... so not really late in my book.

I'm considering buying the home who's property butts up next to mine in the near future. That home has about 5 acres that is next to me that I'd like to own anyway, don't really care about the home and yard. Not initially for rental purposes but, to move my elderly mom into. She's very limited in what she can do and lives in KS. Not an idea situation so, if I can get this bought (and that's a big if), I'll move her in and that way she'll be close for me to help as needed. Eventually, that home could become a rental but, I'm leery of doing that. Not everyone gets a good renter that will take care of a property and pay their rent as the contract stipulates.

I know this, should such a situation as is currently in effect happen while I was making payments on that home and the renters refuse to pay their agreed rent, I'd be in real trouble.

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-28-2021).]

Can you buy rental income insurance on residential property? You can on commercial.

Being a residential landlord seems like a big hassle and risky. Commercial tenants probably wouldn't be that bad, except in a lockdown environment where businesses get shuttered by govt.

Many people that rent/lease out residential property do so via a professional 3rd party manager. Some charge a % (about 10% average around here of gross receipts while others charge a flat rate) to screen applicants, collect rent, take care of inspection and maintenance problems.
No hassles for the owner but at an income cost.

My deceased brother's beach house on Bolivar Peninsula is rented out on most weekends when his family isn't using it and his wife seems happy with the arrangement.
I am considering leasing my current property out when I move and would probably go that route since I'll be living 8 hrs away and don't want to be making frequent trips back here to take care of problems.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-01-2021).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I can't give you a number but, I know of several (three) landlords that will soon be losing their investments due to lack of payment. They can't make their payments to the loaning institutions due to not being able to enforce their rental contracts. This judgement is way too late to save many. Yeah, I feel bad for the renter's that lost their jobs due to the Pandemic and had to make some hard decisions. But, I also know of one family that actually made more than their usual pay during the government payout period of COVID due to the increased unemployment benefits and still didn't pay their rent. They (or he) actually bragged about making more money to me. Rams

They need to check this.
A “payment deferral” allows borrowers to resume making their regular mortgage payments when a forbearance ends. The missed payments are added to the end of the loan term. So, the borrowers don’t have to pay the skipped amounts in a lump sum, in a repayment plan, or through a loan modification immediately after the forbearance is over.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-...20the%20forbearance% 20is%20over.

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: They need to check this. A “payment deferral” allows borrowers to resume making their regular mortgage payments when a forbearance ends. The missed payments are added to the end of the loan term. So, the borrowers don’t have to pay the skipped amounts in a lump sum, in a repayment plan, or through a loan modification immediately after the forbearance is over. [URL=https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/getting-a-payment-deferral-after-a-covid-19-forbearance.html#:~:text=A%20%E2%80%9Cpayment%20deferral%E2%80%9D%20allows%20borrowers%20to%20resume%20making,loan%20modification%20immediately%20after%20the%20forbear ance%]https://www.nolo.com/legal-...20the%20forbearance%[/URL] 20is%20over.

Appreciate that feedback and I'll pass it along. 2 of the 3 have a lawyer involved trying to work out the details, don't really know more than that. There's some things that you just don't ask about, this really isn't any of my business, what I know or think I know is what they've told me, I haven't asked. Thanks.

Rams

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: The missed payments are added to the end of the loan term.

What a racket, . The loaner could not move the property anyways, yet gets more money due to interest.

MJ, Black Rams, if you have any interest, I'd be happy to go into detail about being a landlord. I'm not the most experienced... I've literally had two tenants.

The first one really trashed the place... $10k damage. A petite girl with her two kids, basically did a lot of damage, and she didn't even really realize it. She was never late, but I had to move back into the house, and ended up renovating it.

The second tenant keeps the place immaculate, but is always calling in service requests. Most are OK... but it's frustrating. He's never been late, always pays.


I have a property manager now, I negotiated 6%. They do an OK job... I mostly don't have to deal with anything, I just get the bills and they deduct it from the rent. I don't make a whole hell of a lot on the house... I think I clear $400 after all expenses. But, the home continues to grow in equity, and they're paying my mortgage.

Bottom line, you have to look at it like a business, not an emotion.

Keep in mind that property management companies will rip you off by falsely claiming repairs were needed. Condos and multiplex apartments are notorious for it. My perfectly functioning and higher quality kitchen light fixture was replaced with the cheapest turd you could buy.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: MJ, Black Rams, if you have any interest, I'd be happy to go into detail about being a landlord. I'm not the most experienced... I've literally had two tenants. The first one really trashed the place... $10k damage. A petite girl with her two kids, basically did a lot of damage, and she didn't even really realize it. She was never late, but I had to move back into the house, and ended up renovating it. The second tenant keeps the place immaculate, but is always calling in service requests. Most are OK... but it's frustrating. He's never been late, always pays. I have a property manager now, I negotiated 6%. They do an OK job... I mostly don't have to deal with anything, I just get the bills and they deduct it from the rent. I don't make a whole hell of a lot on the house... I think I clear $400 after all expenses. But, the home continues to grow in equity, and they're paying my mortgage. Bottom line, you have to look at it like a business, not an emotion.

2 kids can do a LOT of damage, in a hurry, without even trying.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: MJ, Black Rams, if you have any interest, I'd be happy to go into detail about being a landlord. I'm not the most experienced... I've literally had two tenants.

The home I hope to buy would not become a potential rental until.................

Hopefully, that's a long way off but, will keep you in mind. Thanks for the offer.

Rams