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Is the LEFT to be in power in 2021, almost in power? by 2.5
Started on: 12-30-2020 11:29 AM
Replies: 45 (557 views)
Last post by: sourmash on 01-08-2021 10:45 PM
2.5
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Report this Post12-30-2020 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Left or Liberal?

Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"? Is it generational? Taught?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE

Losing identity while playing identity games?

Marked politics, which means those who fear others opinions will not see this, and may remain with blinders, simply following commands.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-30-2020).]

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Report this Post12-30-2020 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Left or Liberal?

Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"? Is it generational? Taught?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE

Losing identity while playing identity games?

Marked politics, which means those who fear others opinions will not see this, and may remain with blinders, simply following commands.

Fear, has nothing to do with it, but you already know that. No one on PFF is scared of a dang youtube video. No one.
Pretty neat personal opinion, but the operative word is "MAY". Like the asteroid that 'may' come crashing smack dab into your viewscreen any minute now. (with about the same odds of that happening as your "may''. )
Exactly who is that underlined exclamation directed at anyway?
The people that don't see it?
Think about that for just a moment.
'They' don't see your exclamation (or what I'm posting here) so perhaps you can explain the purpose of it.?


Here is another opinion... mine.
You are not going to be able to force or shame a single person into watching the videos you post any more than I can force or shame anyone into reading my posts; and why would I want to?.
You aren't going to shame or force a single person into enabling 'politics' (or anything else) either.
We all like to think 'we're all that" therefore what we post is as well..
We aren't ............ and neither is the political 'stuff' we post here.
It's all just 'stuff', including this (my) reply post.

Yes, I watched the video. I have no real comment on it. Nothing really new there, as the same left vs liberal/right vs conservative thing has been bantered about for years now, long before someone decided to create a video university that isn't really a university at all and never will be, tho they do have plenty of fanboys and fangirls. (political groupies)
Long before the internet was up and running as well.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-30-2020).]

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Report this Post12-30-2020 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Exactly who is that underlined exclamation directed at anyway?
The people that don't see it?
Think about that for just a moment.
'They' don't see your exclamation (or what I'm posting here) so perhaps you can explain the purpose of it.?



I'm well aware. If you hadn't noticed I put something similar on all my "forcibly labelled" threads. Or at least try to. Its a bit tongue in cheek in that regard. Its aimed at anyone who ever reads it and cares. Tell your friends, tell your children. Change the world
As the statements usually infer, those who choose to blindly filter their world, will likley never see it in person.
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Report this Post12-30-2020 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

It's all just 'stuff', including this (my) reply post.

Yes, I watched the video. I have no real comment on it. Nothing really new there, as the same left vs liberal/right vs conservative thing has been bantered about for years now, long before someone decided to create a video....l.



Some folks like this "stuff".Its the "stuff" of life.
For all the folks who have "heard it a million times". There are plenty who havent, plenty who have had it stricken from the record of whats allowable to teach, plenty whose only other source of the outside world is something like CNN, or facebook for goodness sake. To each their own.

If there is a point you agree with elaborate on it. If there is one you disagree with refute it. Thats what I'm going for.

You sure you watched the whole thing? He said at the end that Conservatives aren't Liberals enemies.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-30-2020).]

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Report this Post12-30-2020 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Here is another opinion... mine.




So what is your opinion? Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"? Is it generational? Taught?
Are they not? I'm talking in the USA, not just Texas.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-30-2020).]

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Report this Post12-30-2020 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like the PragerU videos for two reasons:
1) They are concise.
2) They can help clarify an idea for those who might not have a detailed understanding of the subject at hand.
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Report this Post12-30-2020 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

.... someone decided to create a video university that isn't really a university at all and never will be.....



Thank God you cleared that up!

I suppose next you're going to bust everyone's bubble and disclose that McDonald's "Hamburger University" also isn't a real university.
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Report this Post12-30-2020 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm just confused. Is the point eluding me, because shouldn't "Republican" be replaced everywhere there it reads liberal?
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Report this Post12-30-2020 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Are they not?

No.

The liberals are no farther to the left now than they were when I was 20.
If anything, it is the center, that has moved.

It is mostly the 'perception' of the liberal ideology that has changed and because of that perceptual movement or awakening, the internet's right and center right has become more vocal.
They are not however, saying anything that is anywhere near as earthshattering as the speakers would have their listeners believe and certainly are not saying anything new.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-30-2020).]

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Report this Post12-30-2020 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Both parties cater to the special interests. Republicans are going hard so they can say the Democrats are the real racists. Eff them both. They both suck'm totem pole.
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Report this Post12-30-2020 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


So what is your opinion? Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"? Is it generational? Taught?
Are they not? I'm talking in the USA, not just Texas.



1. Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"?.....NO

Classic "liberalism" and "Leftism", (a/k/a Marxism, Socialism, Progressivism, etc.) are separate and distinct ideologies.

The ideology of classic liberalism seems to be quickly dying off in the Democrat party in the U.S., so as far as the political party goes, YES (and it isn't slowly)

2. Is it generational?.....Partly, YES

Children are inherently utopians. They see the world full of endless possibilities that satisfy their immediate wants and desires, ("Why can't I have candy and treats for every meal?, Why can't we live in Disney World all year?, Why, Why, Why...I want, I want, I want).
Children also live "in the moment" in their emotions and make their decisions and form their larval ideas about the world based on those emotions, (IT'S NOT FAIR!,... YOU HATE ME!). The realities and limitations of the world never enter into their thinking until they grow up, IF THEY DO.

Unfortunately there seems to be a (increasing) portion of the population that cannot, or will not, grow up. They remain the fantasy utopians of childhood and never fully develop adult reasoning skills but remain trapped in the emotional thinking of childhood. They become children in adult bodies and their reasoning remains stunted as well.
(#3 below, isn't helping matters.)

3. Is it Taught?.......YES

Both critical thinking skills and the idea of personal responsibility seem to be seriously waning in the education of young people.
Instead they are increasing taught the importance of their racial, sexual, ethnic and personal "uniqueness" and the overwhelming importance of their feelings above all else. That idea of the huge importance of "uniqueness" is the original meaning of the term "snowflake" no matter how it has been misused since and it is also the genesis of an entire generation or two of very self-absorbed, self-indulgent, young people.

Discrimination in ANY form is also now taught as an ultimate evil which inevitably results in children afraid to make any reasoned decision lest they commit the "sin" of discrimination. (Note that I am NOT talking about racial discrimination or discrimination based on someone's immutable characteristics). Children are being taught that there are no ideas or ways of living that are better than another. They must NOT discriminate. (The saying; "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is one of the examples of that kind of warped, indiscriminate, reasoning.)

The idea that one must never discriminate in any way inevitably and invariably leads to complete indiscriminateness of thought.

When you couple that with an immature mind in an adult body it is a recipe for a generation or two of pliable, willing, subjects as opposed to free citizens in a free society.

Then the utopian propaganda of "Socialism Good...Capitalism Bad", "Tax the Rich", "FREE college, healthcare, housing, food, income etc.", "It's a "Human Right", "Black Lives Matter", "Defund the Police"...and on and on and on is pushed like a constant drumbeat and those pliable, puerile, minds can be organized into a LEFTIST revolution that they will suffer and die from as everyone in history before them has......

But they were never taught that long, failed, history of Marxism so they have to painfully rediscover it.

THEN some of them, (that survive) , may finally grow up.

....................................

Although he was a statist like all liberals (and Leftists), John F. Kennedy was probably the last glimmer of a true classic liberal in the Demorat party.
Today's Demorats absolutely cringe at Kennedy's challenge to Americans: "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-05-2021).]

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Report this Post12-30-2020 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Both parties cater to the special interests. Republicans are going hard so they can say the Democrats are the real racists. Eff them both. They both suck'm totem pole.


Well, Demorats ARE the real racists.

Since Republicans freed their slaves in 1862 Demorats haven't stopped trying to continue to subjugate them in one form or another.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 12-30-2020).]

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Report this Post12-31-2020 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Well, Demorats ARE the real racists.

Since Republicans freed their slaves in 1862 Demorats haven't stopped trying to continue to subjugate them in one form or another.


Are we really to believe that ? Sheesh, ... if we do ... the next thing I expect from you, is you telling us the Demonrats practice "identity politics".
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Report this Post12-31-2020 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's a totally self defeating, losing battle that Republicans are fooled into playing. 'Democrats are the real racists' policy makes the Republicans try even hard to prostate everyone in the nation to special interest groups. It's too late to save the country because neither party in DC will protect the citizens from foreign invaders and dual citizens.

The America of our ideals doesn't exist. It's just a theory.
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Report this Post12-31-2020 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

I'm just confused. Is the point eluding me, because shouldn't "Republican" be replaced everywhere there it reads liberal?


I do think he was a bit liberal with the praise for liberals
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Report this Post12-31-2020 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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Member since May 2007
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

No.

The liberals are no farther to the left now than they were when I was 20.
If anything, it is the center, that has moved.

It is mostly the 'perception' of the liberal ideology that has changed and because of that perceptual movement or awakening, the internet's right and center right has become more vocal.
They are not however, saying anything that is anywhere near as earthshattering as the speakers would have their listeners believe and certainly are not saying anything new.



So in that sense, would then you say liberals have not changed, conservatives have not changed, but new folks "the LEFT" entering the arena are neither liberal or conservative, but are indeed growing?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-31-2020).]

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Report this Post12-31-2020 11:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


1. Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"?.....NO

Classic "liberalism" and "Leftism", (a/k/a Marxism, Socialism, Progressivism, etc.) are separate and distinct ideologies.

The ideology of classic liberalism seems to be quickly dying off in the Democrat party in the U.S., so as far as the political party goes, YES (and it isn't slowly)

2. Is it generational?.....Partly, YES

Children are inherently utopians. They see the world full of endless possibilities that satisfy their immediate wants and desires, ("Why can't I have candy and treats for every meal?, Why can't we live in Disney World all year?, Why, Why, Why...I want, I want, I want), Children also live "in the moment" in their emotions and make their decisions and form their larval ideas about the world based on those emotions, (IT'S NOT FAIR!,... YOU HATE ME!). The realities and limitations of the world never enter into their thinking until they grow up, IF THEY DO.

Unfortunately there seems to be a (growing) portion of the population that cannot, or will not, grow up. They remain the fantasy utopians of childhood and never fully develop adult reasoning skills but remain trapped in the emotional thinking of childhood. They become children in adult bodies and their reasoning remains stunted as well. (#3 below, isn't helping matters.)

3. Is it Taught?.......YES

Both critical thinking skills and the idea of personal responsibility seem to be seriously waning in the education of young people.
Instead they are increasing taught the importance of their racial, sexual, ethnic and personal "uniqueness" and the overwhelming importance of their feelings above all else. That idea of the huge importance of "uniqueness" is the original meaning of the term "snowflake" no matter how it has been misused since and it is also the genesis of an entire generation or two of very self-absorbed, self-indulgent, young people.

Discrimination in ANY form is also now taught as an ultimate evil which inevitably results in children afraid to make any reasoned decision lest they commit the "sin" of discrimination. (Note that I am NOT talking about racial discrimination or discrimination based on someone's immutable characteristics). Children are being taught that there are no ideas or ways of living that are better than another. They must NOT discriminate.

The idea that one must never discriminate in any way inevitably and invariably leads to complete indiscriminateness of thought. When you couple that with an immature mind in an adult body it is a recipe for a generation or two of pliable, willing, subjects as opposed to free citizens in a free society.

Then the utopian, indiscriminate, propaganda of "Socialism Good...Capitalism Bad", "Tax the Rich", "FREE college, housing, food, income etc.", "It's a "Human Right", "Black Lives Matter", "Defund the Police"...and on and on and on is pushed like a constant drumbeat and those pliable, puerile, minds can be organized into a LEFTIST revolution that they will suffer and die from as everyone in history before them has......

But they were never taught that history so they have to painfully rediscover it.

THEN some of them that survive may finally grow up.

....................................

Although he was a statist like all liberals (and Leftists), John F. Kennedy was probably the last glimmer of a true classic liberal in the Demorat party.
Today's Demorats absolutely cringe at Kennedy's challenge to Americans: "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”






I think we agree entirely. Great post.

I would also add that along with The perception of "Discrimination in ANY form is also now taught as an ultimate evil " ...being one of the perceived discriminated against, is a badge for some worn with pride, worn to be known as the victim, making one popular and promoting victimhood and "us vs them" mentality.

***This "The ideology of classic liberalism seems to be quickly dying off in the Democrat party in the U.S."
I guess is what I mean when I say "Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism" ...because on percantage maybe they are even if only by "classic liberals" dying off.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-31-2020).]

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Report this Post12-31-2020 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


1. So in that sense, would then you say liberals have not changed, 2. conservatives have not changed, but new folks "the LEFT" entering the arena are neither liberal or conservative, but are indeed growing?


1. The conservatives in the last 30 years have been lulled into believing they can work with or control the left. The liberal base has not changed...They have always been far left. The last time we had a true conservative in Washington that could bring the left around was Reagan. A different era, and the Cold War was a big part of Reagan's success with the liberals. The left/liberals have not yet had their 'Reagan moment' in the oval office simply because they have not found a party leader that is charismatic enough to fill that role. (Obama was not, they were banking on HRC but that didn't happen, and Biden/Kamala ain't it either.) But, it's coming. A younger Bernie type.

2. No, I would not say that at all. The 'new folks' are no more or less 'Left' than the old ones. Liberals have always been socialist, gun grabbing, communist pacifying, baby killing, open border tax and spenders and always will be. The ONLY thing that has changed, is they realized the conservative bases have become weak and they are now being more vocal regarding what they always felt and believed, and are now getting very close & ready to exploit that weakness. Too many conservatives and so-called independents/Libertarians have bought into and accepted the 'free stuff' political society, moving toward traditional 'center' and as a result, the center itself has moved to the left. There is comparatively very little far right any more. It's a vacuum over there, and I doubt it will change anytime in the near future.

There is grave danger in listening to talking heads that are doing nothing but telling you what you want to hear and that which you should already know and coming away thinking it has made a difference. It may make you feel warm and fuzzy, give you absolution, and you may get some small satisfaction in sharing the obvious with everyone else, but listen more, to the enemy.
Keep them closer...

That $2,000 free stimulus check being talked about? There are TONS of people that call themselves conservatives just waiting for that check to make it thru congress and get signed into law and the pandemic has very little to do with it. They've moved toward center and want their share of the pie, and it's going to get worse and there isn't a damn thing those talking heads are going to be able to do about it.

Remember ..Those talking heads on youtube are making $$$$$$ telling you exactly what you want to hear and what you already know.

Do you know how politicians get support and get elected/re-elected?

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Report this Post12-31-2020 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The simple fact is the left and their political-correctness will NEVER be in "power". They only have as much power as you allow them to have. If they make rules, ignore them. If they pass laws break them. Constitutional Rights are a FAR higher authority than snowflake views.
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Report this Post12-31-2020 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

The left/liberals have not yet had their 'Reagan moment' in the oval office simply because they have not found a party leader that is charismatic enough to fill that role. (Obama was not, they were banking on HRC but that didn't happen, and Biden/Kamala ain't it either.) But, it's coming. A younger Bernie type.


This is also what I mean with the OP, we are headed there it seems.

 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
There is grave danger in listening to talking heads that are doing nothing but telling you what you want to hear and that which you should already know and coming away thinking it has made a difference. It may make you feel warm and fuzzy, give you absolution, and you may get some small satisfaction in sharing the obvious with everyone else, but listen more, to the enemy.
Keep them closer...


Thanks for this, but yea i know, heck thats part of how our nation got in this hole. What I feel is I think I know what the LEFT wants, (the leaders and the tools) and what it will do and it is insane. I don't really know what I can do about it though...other than spread the truth. (And vote of course.)


 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
That $2,000 free stimulus check being talked about? There are TONS of people that call themselves conservatives just waiting for that check to make it thru congress and get signed into law and the pandemic has very little to do with it. They've moved toward center and want their share of the pie, and it's going to get worse

and there isn't a damn thing those talking heads are going to be able to do about it.
Remember ..Those talking heads on youtube are making $$$$$$ telling you exactly what you want to hear and what you already know.

Do you know how politicians get support and get elected/re-elected?


Part 1 what could one do even if they (like us) think the stimulus checks will bankrupt the nation, is there a choice in the matter?

Part 2 I agree but information and knowledge is valuable. Sincere ones are probably thinking what I said just earlier: ...don't really know what they can do about it other than spread the truth. (And vote of course.) If they have a platform they should use it I think.
Of course yes there is tons of misinformation and money making advertising/propaganda bs, goes without saying. It is for each individual to determine what is what.

Ya giving people what they want 9Or saying they will) (That plus money and propaganda, and these days owning the media in one way or another). The problem in the end is the citizens, not enough want the right things anymore.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-31-2020).]

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Report this Post12-31-2020 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Part 1 what could one do even if they (like us) think the stimulus checks will bankrupt the nation, is there a choice in the matter?

Part 2 I agree but information and knowledge is valuable. Sincere ones are probably thinking what I said just earlier: ...don't really know what they can do about it other than spread the truth. (And vote of course.) If they have a platform they should use it I think.
Of course yes there is tons of misinformation and money making advertising/propaganda bs, goes without saying. It is for each individual to determine what is what.

Ya giving people what they want 9Or saying they will) (That plus money and propaganda, and these days owning the media in one way or another). The problem in the end is the citizens, not enough want the right things anymore.



Exactly WHO do you think you're spreading the "truth" TO?
Have you become Avengador2.5?

In 4 months I will have been on PFF 20 years. Have read tens of thousands of posts and new threads, a great % of them being political in nature. Not ONE single time have I ever seen anyone's political mind changed.. not once.

I have tho, seen lots of good people decide to leave OT and even PFF completely because they were tired of all the politics, to which you respond with your neat little admonition sig to them, even tho you have to know ................. they Don't See It.
So, who is it for?

You can't possibly be looking to 'spread the word' here. We're already 99.9% conservative nowadays and the fraction of a % that isn't is Canadian or admittedly liberal and not interested in changing now or in a 100 years.

I'll ask again.
"Do you know how politicians get support and get elected/re-elected?"

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-31-2020).]

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Report this Post12-31-2020 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by 2.5:


I would also add that along with The perception of "Discrimination in ANY form is also now taught as an ultimate evil " ...being one of the perceived discriminated against, is a badge for some worn with pride, worn to be known as the victim, making one popular and promoting victimhood and "us vs them" mentality.





It doesn't take long for children to realize that being a "victim" gets them attention from their parents and potentially garners them rewards.

Carry that childhood thinking into their "adulthood" and you have an entire segment of the population that believes that any of the normal trials and tribulations of life make them a "victim" and their parents are replaced by the government which they expect to fix their problems and then comfort and reward them.

There is also a segment of the population that excuses their adult failures in life to being a "victim" and sadly they indoctrinate their own children with this way of excusing their own failures in life.

It's always much easier to claim to be a "victim" than it is to constantly work hard and have the mindset to overcome any circumstance in order to succeed in life and to forego the ideas and actions that lead to failure, (i.e. drugs, alcohol, crime, sloth, lying, etc..)

I have NEVER encountered a successful and mentally well adjusted man or woman that claims to be a "victim" of life.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-01-2021).]

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Report this Post12-31-2020 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by maryjane:

I'll ask again.
"Do you know how politicians get support and get elected/re-elected?"



I think my points were made.

Also are you asking this question again because you disagree with my answer?
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Report this Post12-31-2020 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


I think my points were made.

Also are you asking this question again because you disagree with my answer?


Is this your answer?
 
quote
Ya giving people what they want 9Or saying they will) (That plus money and propaganda, and these days owning the media in one way or another). The problem in the end is the citizens, not enough want the right things anymore.


You may be implying that is how Biden got elected with all that, but in general, it is much simpler than all that spiel.
A major candidate gets elected in the 21st Century and last part of the 20th Century America simply by parroting what the majority of the electorate/constituency is already thinking and saying. The same is true for an incumbent seeking re-election. That's it. It's all they need to do.



The candidate that comes closest to parroting what the majority of the electorate thinks, will win.

A 1st time novice politician (Trump) beat life long entrenched swamp dweller HRC by repeating what was already in the minds and words of everyday Americans, but he drifted away from that in 2020. HRC had pandered to and repeated what her base thought and said and thought that would be enough, in fact, she was convinced of it. Trump OTOH, tried to speak to everyone in the runup to 2016 election and it paid off. He did not do that in 2020. He made the same mistake HRC and her team did.


Even in local races, a candidate doesn't worry about his base, they're locked in. It's the fringe voters that you have to stroke.

Biden, repeated what his team thought the majority of Americans were thinking in the last 9 months of 2020, and won, because he included those outside the traditional left. He will undoubtedly disappoint a lot of those folks, but it got him elected. Biden, was speaking, not to, but from the majority of the broad base voters. People, (especially in America) LIKE to hear their own words and thoughts repeated back to them from someone else. That's also why so many youtubers have so many fanboys and girls. People watch and hang on every word and nuance because they are in effect, watching and listening to themselves.

The Nov election should never had been so close that anything the media said or did could make a difference but it was, because Trump deviated from what got him elected in the first place. The election, was lost in May and June, July at the latest.
I hate it, but Trump shot himself in the foot.

I don't often (anymore) get involved in political discussions here at PFF because I do not enjoy talking to myself and like listening to myself even less.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-01-2021).]

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Report this Post01-01-2021 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

A major candidate gets elected in the 21st Century and last part of the 20th Century America simply by parroting what the majority of the electorate/constituency is already thinking and saying. The same is true for an incumbent seeking re-election. That's it. It's all they need to do.

The candidate that comes closest to parroting what the majority of the electorate thinks, will win



We agree, thats what I said as well, though with less detail. (And a typo where a "(" should be.

That, plus or minus corruption and cheating.

Im glad for those who came out in detail in this thread with responses of substance including yourself. I dont think there really is a good reason not to, and I think when we do it helps anyone who sees it get to know us.

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Report this Post01-01-2021 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If a person thinks the electorate has any relevance in deciding the ultimate winner of any federal election going forward, you're as delusional as the any hard leftist alive.
I guess it's because it's what people have always done, so they continue to do it even though they know it's a useless exercise.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 01-01-2021).]

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Report this Post01-01-2021 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

If a person thinks the electorate has any relevance in deciding the ultimate winner of any federal election going forward, you're as delusional as the any hard leftist alive.
I guess it's because it's what people have always done, so they continue to do it even though they know it's a useless exercise.


People keep parroting that (or something similar to it) but no one ever offers any actual proof other than someone else yet again, parroting the same thing.

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Report this Post01-01-2021 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Huh? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?

Election fraud is so apparent that it's slapping you in the face. Are you one of the "baseless claims" believers?
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Report this Post01-01-2021 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm one of those that expects some sort of realistic proof of anything instead of just more of the same repeated conspiracy theory rhetoric that has been plaguing OT for months now.

"I have a friend that has a wife whose cousin works at city hall that overheard 2 people say they have proof the election was rigged so it must be true"

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-01-2021).]

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Report this Post01-01-2021 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So you have a conspiracy theory that all the sworn affidavits of election fraud and even the testimonies don't exist. Very curious, but predictable. A few the affidavits were released to the press as an example so they'd stop programming people like you with the term "baseless claims" and "without evidence".

There is no bottom for you, IOws. There is no amount of criminality and foreign intervention from dual citizens and the donor class to which you will stand up to resist to protect yourself and family. Ok.
You've taken your leftist programming well, sir.

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Report this Post01-01-2021 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm still waiting for that proof.
Better hurry.
I don't have many years left before the lizard head shadow creatures come for me.
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Report this Post01-01-2021 03:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
I'm still waiting for that proof.


The sworn proof of legal affidavits aren't proof. Right. Gotcha. And I fully understood who you are in total the first time. Mitch is a wonderful mascot.
The affidavits and accompanied video testimonies of observers don't qualify in your approved governmental system, because pretending.

 
quote
Better hurry.
I don't have many years left before the lizard head shadow creatures come for me.


You say it like it's a bad thing. Lol.
It's not my job to make you view, accept or seek. It's my duty to observe those who refuse to view, accept and seek when offered the proof they said didn't exist. You'll have to prove all those signed, sworn docs are individual pieces of perjury for you to be right. You've said some curious things in the past, but...
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Report this Post01-02-2021 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would say some are, but most aren't.. It's no different with Republicans, some are sliding further and further right, some aren't..

A minority on the left have become radicalized, mainly from what i'v seen, are young not well educated people with little life experience.

Then you have the right, where a minority are very much moving to a authoritarian type world view.

Question is, are the moderates from both sides able and willing to step up too squash the radicals in their party. We'll have to wait and see as time goes on.

Radicals breed radicals. Humans in general tend to get more and more stupid as they group together, and the larger the groups get, the dumber its members become.

Hopefully our more moderate and logical members of society will prevent the radicals from either side from gaining any real power and doing real damage.

We'll see.

I do find it interesting you only focus on the left when it comes to radicalization. Do you have zero criticisms of the right? As i rarely if ever see any on this forum, or is your opinion the right as a whole doing a "good job".. I mean, the "right" in general has held the most power in our government for a very long time now, and here we are! Lots of bad things going on.. Sure the first instinct is to just blame the left for all your ill's, but the left has been a minority power in our country for a very long time. Sure no doubt the left has made lots of mistakes and caused problems, but as the old saying goes, "the buck stops at the top", and the right has been "on top" for a long time now.

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 01-02-2021).]

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Report this Post01-02-2021 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I could butt in, the radicals are a majority at Berkeley University and educators are committing violence there. One smashing people's heads with a U shaped bike lock--Eric something who appears to have gotten a slap on the wrist.
They were prominent at Charlottesville and again committing violence, and even admitting to pointing an AR-15 right at the Fields kid as he drove past, which is partially credited for why he didn't slow at the crowd ahead, which was bashing his car with bats.
Educators at major universities are leading the campaigns to tear down US history and to replace symbols because they're symbols of Whiteness.
Maxine Waters instructs people to go after right wingers and chase them out of where ever you see them in the streets. Rand Paul has been targeted twice now. And Kamala Harris supported the radicals saying they won't stop and shouldn't stop.

That's just a blush of the leftist educated portion.

The Right is more centrist than they are right, because the uneducated leftists will throw violent fits and arson in the streets. The left is more leftist and radical leftist.
the Right listens to the left. The left won't hear anything from the right even when the right agrees to give something up.
The right is called radical for wanting to preserve something. They aren't very right-wing at all. They've given so much ground to the left that they're centrist.

Kamala is right, they aren't going to stop but they also aren't going to build anything positive. It's about getting something for nothing.

I personally slam the right constantly. They're a bunch of weak, pansy, left leaning pieces of bought-off sell-outs who are busy doing what Jon Stewart said they were doing the last time Bibi Netanyahu spoke to the Congress.

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Report this Post01-02-2021 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:


You say it like it's a bad thing. Lol.
It's not my job to make you view, accept or seek. It's my duty to observe those who refuse to view, accept and seek when offered the proof they said didn't exist. You'll have to prove all those signed, sworn docs are individual pieces of perjury for you to be right. You've said some curious things in the past, but...


You haven't presented any sworn docs. All you've done is said they exist, and a sworn affidavit only means the person signing it believes or wants others to believe it's content is true. There are tons of documents in govt archive, signed and sworn, that have been proven to be nothing but rubbish.
The document itself is never proof of anything.
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Report this Post01-02-2021 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

If I could butt in, the radicals are a majority at Berkeley University and educators are committing violence there. One smashing people's heads with a U shaped bike lock--Eric something who appears to have gotten a slap on the wrist.
They were prominent at Charlottesville and again committing violence, and even admitting to pointing an AR-15 right at the Fields kid as he drove past, which is partially credited for why he didn't slow at the crowd ahead, which was bashing his car with bats.
Educators at major universities are leading the campaigns to tear down US history and to replace symbols because they're symbols of Whiteness.
Maxine Waters instructs people to go after right wingers and chase them out of where ever you see them in the streets. Rand Paul has been targeted twice now. And Kamala Harris supported the radicals saying they won't stop and shouldn't stop.

That's just a blush of the leftist educated portion.


That's what i was referring too about the radical left mostly being "not well educated". And a major part of it is the radical professors that have taken over many universities.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the Republicans being mostly "centrist". Trump and his administration was NOT centrist, they were borderline authoritarian. There are centrist republicans for sure, but they weren't part of the current administration, and have been very quiet the past 4 years, most likely due to fear of Trump blasting them on twitter if they went against him, fearing they will lose their position. There has been violence and intimidation from people on the right as well.. You can pretend there isn't if you wish, but its not reality. Living in Alabama which is a state that is about as "far right" as you can get, there has been instances of that here. And if i have to see any more neck beards wearing ski masks, with giant trump flags on their jacked up trucks wearing full tac gear carrying their AR's with them every were i think ill puke. And i fully support the 2nd amendment. Hell we just had an attack here at a walmart were two guys (with Trump flags on their trucks) were berating some random guy walking too his car for wearing a mask, when he flipped them off, they both ganged up and beat him down. It comes from both sides..

Which is why i never pick "sides" or "parties". I support good ideas, and good ideas are a rare thing from either side these days.

Glad to hear you criticize the right as well, as its a rarity around here..

I personally think both parties are garbage, filled with garbage people who's only interest is themselves and what they can gain from their positions.

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Report this Post01-02-2021 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

So you have a conspiracy theory that all the sworn affidavits of election fraud and even the testimonies don't exist. Very curious, but predictable. A few the affidavits were released to the press as an example so they'd stop programming people like you with the term "baseless claims" and "without evidence".

There is no bottom for you, IOws. There is no amount of criminality and foreign intervention from dual citizens and the donor class to which you will stand up to resist to protect yourself and family. Ok.
You've taken your leftist programming well, sir.



You'll have to explain to me why Trumps lawyers didn't present all this evidence in court? If they have all this evidence, why not use it in court? They haven't even argued election fraud in court. They say that's what they are doing when on TV, but that's not what they are doing in court.. Which is why all there cases are being thrown out, they present nothing. Very strange legal tactic.. Which is why i believe its just all a political theater show by a President who's days in office are about to run out.

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Report this Post01-02-2021 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really haven't followed it since the assembly of affidavits and since the MI Republicans signed affidavits that they were threatened with violence it they didn't certify. So what they're allowed to do with them, I don't know. But there are state assemblies asking to nullify or decertify the counts. They've also sent alternate electors, some states having two sets.

 
quote
Originally posted by Jonesy:


That's what i was referring too about the radical left mostly being "not well educated". And a major part of it is the radical professors that have taken over many universities.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the Republicans being mostly "centrist". Trump and his administration was NOT centrist, they were borderline authoritarian. There are centrist republicans for sure, but they weren't part of the current administration, and have been very quiet the past 4 years, most likely due to fear of Trump blasting them on twitter if they went against him, fearing they will lose their position. There has been violence and intimidation from people on the right as well.. You can pretend there isn't if you wish, but its not reality. Living in Alabama which is a state that is about as "far right" as you can get, there has been instances of that here. And if i have to see any more neck beards wearing ski masks, with giant trump flags on their jacked up trucks wearing full tac gear carrying their AR's with them every were i think ill puke. And i fully support the 2nd amendment. Hell we just had an attack here at a walmart were two guys (with Trump flags on their trucks) were berating some random guy walking too his car for wearing a mask, when he flipped them off, they both ganged up and beat him down. It comes from both sides..

Which is why i never pick "sides" or "parties". I support good ideas, and good ideas are a rare thing from either side these days.

Glad to hear you criticize the right as well, as its a rarity around here..

I personally think both parties are garbage, filled with garbage people who's only interest is themselves and what they can gain from their positions.



In DC, they are both garbage. DC is why we're at such a low point today.

I never see the right rioting, beating anyone. Maybe berating someone in a mutual shouting match on the street, yes. But not committing arson, randomly punching people on NYC hotel/business videos. I DO see the rght with ARs and agree that it's stupid looking. But seeing all the violence will prompt a reaction.

The right isn't even allowed to assemble without being assaulted by the extreme left. When they achieved it in DC the numbers were so great the left was held back until they could single out stragglers, like when they murdered the kid in Oregon or Washington in a Trump march.
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Report this Post01-05-2021 11:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Jonesy:

Which is why i never pick "sides" or "parties". I support good ideas, and good ideas are a rare thing from either side these days.



Good new ideas are rare.

I believe the Constitution and Bill of rights were and are an excellent idea, the LEFT does not.
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Report this Post01-05-2021 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by 2.5:


Good new ideas are rare.

I believe the Constitution and Bill of rights were and are an excellent idea, the LEFT does not.


Neither does the current RIGHT. Trump is doing everything he can to get around the constitution in order to overturn an election he clearly lost.. His new "perfect phone call" clearly shows that. He cares nothing for the law, or the constitution, they are just obstacles in his way from getting what he wants. And it appears his supporters, both in government and not, are just fine with that.

That's Authoritarian, not Democratic. I cannot support such things, and if you believe in the Constitution as you claim, then neither should you.
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