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Laboratory testing of face masks for the suppression of Covid-19 transmission by rinselberg
Started on: 11-16-2020 09:38 AM
Replies: 16 (247 views)
Last post by: Notorio on 11-23-2020 07:58 PM
rinselberg
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Report this Post11-16-2020 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe you're the "dude" that's been saying things like "No face cloth is going to stop a virus."

Wouldn't you like to consider that there might be science-based reasons to think otherwise?

This is the online report of your dreams.

"Low-cost measurement of face mask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech"
Emma P. Fischer et al; Science Advances 02 Sep 2020.
https://advances.sciencemag...ontent/6/36/eabd3083

 
quote
We have demonstrated a simple optical measurement method to evaluate the efficacy of masks to reduce the transmission of respiratory droplets during regular speech. In proof-of-principle studies, we compared a variety of commonly available mask types and observed that some mask types approach the performance of standard surgical masks, while some mask alternatives, such as neck gaiters or bandanas, offer very little protection.


I know what Dr Vin Gupta recommends: a snug-fitting N95-rated face mask without an exhalation valve.

Stepping down from the N95 level of excellence, the widely available disposable surgical masks that still do a face "right."



"Viral" 60-second hack makes your [cheap'o disposable] face mask fit so much better"
https://bgr.com/2020/08/10/...ce-masks-fit-better/

It's a 60-second video that you would have to scroll all the way to the end of the article to find.

I like it because the knots lessen the strain on the ear loops, where they attach to the mask. Reduces the frequency of those dreaded ear loop separation incidents at the points of attachment to the mask.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-16-2020).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post11-16-2020 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Reduces the frequency of those dreaded ear loop separation incidents at the points of attachment to the mask.
which any ordinary home, school or office stapler can take care of in 15 seconds.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post11-16-2020 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have several different masks

All of the masks have internal filters
Two of them have unfiltered exhaust vents
1 has an exhaust vent but it is filtered, only exhausts through the internal filter not both layers.
Then I have the surgical and ear loop masks

I like the mask that has the single exhaust vent, but the two that have unfiltered exhaust ports are the easiest to wear and for avoiding spitting on you when I am yelling at you they will get the job done.
The masks without the vents I can wear them but any kind of physical activity and I run out of breath pretty quickly.

I had breathing issues before all of this and the masks are not helping.
My father passed away from emphysema and I worry that as I get older I will have the same issues.
So I do wear a mask, its not easy and I take it off as soon as I can.
We stay home as much as possible.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post11-16-2020 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[/QUOTE] which any ordinary home, school or office stapler can take care of in 15 seconds.[/QUOTE]

I tried to fix my mask with a stapler....Just want to warn everyone- It REALLY hurts when you staple it to your face!!!!

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 11-16-2020).]

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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post11-16-2020 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
But...but...but....

Ah, ****it. It's clown world.

Mah faaavvorrittteee fish is tomato.

Canz I have my inoculation now ?????

And my pudding if I eat my meat ?????

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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post11-16-2020 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MidEngineManiac

26022 posts
Member since Feb 2007
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

I have several different masks

All of the masks have internal filters
Two of them have unfiltered exhaust vents
1 has an exhaust vent but it is filtered, only exhausts through the internal filter not both layers.
Then I have the surgical and ear loop masks

I like the mask that has the single exhaust vent, but the two that have unfiltered exhaust ports are the easiest to wear and for avoiding spitting on you when I am yelling at you they will get the job done.
The masks without the vents I can wear them but any kind of physical activity and I run out of breath pretty quickly.

I had breathing issues before all of this and the masks are not helping.
My father passed away from emphysema and I worry that as I get older I will have the same issues.
So I do wear a mask, its not easy and I take it off as soon as I can.
We stay home as much as possible.


You cant live in fear....You cant.



Jake man, wake up !! There are millions of us out there who wont be ruled by fear. We are all going to die anyway, its no reason to stop living and do it while you are still breathing.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 11-16-2020).]

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rinselberg
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Report this Post11-16-2020 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"99.9 percent survival rate."

I can think of one very special Pennock's T/OT thread that's been active here, very recently, for some really solid first person-type perspective on "99.9 percent survival rate."
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randye
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Report this Post11-16-2020 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

"99.9 percent survival rate."

I can think of one very special Pennock's T/OT thread that's been active here, very recently, for some really solid first person-type perspective on "99.9 percent survival rate."


For more "perspective" there are some of us here on PFF that also had COV2, survived just fine as part of the 99.9%, acted like adult men and DIDN'T feel compelled to be a DRAMA QUEEN here on the forum about our illness.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-17-2020).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post11-17-2020 01:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

For more "perspective" there are some of us here on PFF that ALSO had COV2, survived just fine as part of the 99.9%, acted like adult men and DIDN'T feel compelled to be a DRAMA QUEEN here on the forum about our illness.


You never cease to disgust me.
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randye
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Report this Post11-17-2020 02:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

You never cease to disgust me.


Imagine a far away, magical, mystical, place where your opinion matters.

Now go there.
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rinselberg
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Report this Post11-21-2020 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let's kick this off (very logically) with the Original Post or "Message #0" as I sometimes like to call it--a "nod" to the forum software's message sequencing number system.

"Low-cost measurement of face mask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech"
Emma P. Fischer et al; Science Advances 02 Sep 2020.
https://advances.sciencemag...ontent/6/36/eabd3083

 
quote
We have demonstrated a simple optical measurement method to evaluate the efficacy of masks to reduce the transmission of respiratory droplets during regular speech. In proof-of-principle studies, we compared a variety of commonly available mask types and observed that some mask types approach the performance of standard surgical masks, while some mask alternatives, such as neck gaiters or bandanas, offer very little protection.


That research report has now been summarized in a brief (3+ minutes) video on YouTube. The measuring device involves a laser and a cell phone camera.
https://youtu.be/LeEBn4ttZZY

Vin Gupta has the Last Word.
https://youtu.be/K03nJuHmsl8

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-21-2020).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post11-22-2020 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:


You cant live in fear....You cant.



Jake man, wake up !! There are millions of us out there who wont be ruled by fear. We are all going to die anyway, its no reason to stop living and do it while you are still breathing.



If you don’t have good health insurance a bout with Covid at your local hospital could be very expensive. I don’t live in fear of the virus, I live in fear of owing a hospital a huge chunk of money.

For some people this is also a driving force behind their vote for Democrats.
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maryjane
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Report this Post11-22-2020 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://www.facebook.com/Ci...os/1744918165671552/

English version:
https://www.facebook.com/Ci..._rv__=related_videos

If the video doesn't pop right up, click on the vid that says #ProtectArlington

the back story

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-22-2020).]

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-23-2020 07:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Work just gave up on the N95 masks. They don't work. For the last few months they have forced us to wear a specific N95 mask the ENTIRE time we are on grounds. We were even mandated to retreat to a "hard walled room" to eat or drink. The mandate was that we do not take out mask off for ANY reason other than running to alarms.
Supposedly covid is still spreading and they gave up on the masks. Now they issue surgical masks that are CLEARLY less effective.
We will probably reach 4,000 people with positive tests and currently have 8 deaths that they blame on covid, (I have my doubts on that claim). AND I have doubts that the tests are accurate.
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maryjane
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Report this Post11-23-2020 08:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Speaking generally and to no one in particular

People are free to think whatever they want to i suppose.
1 in 10 (10%) Americans still have grave doubts that the US ever landed men on the moon in spite of overwhelming evidence that we did so.
Tens of thousands of people think lizard like aliens are walking around us in plain view but we just can't see them in spite of zero evidence to support such thought.
Thousands of people still insist the planet is flat and some have died trying to prove it. A like number also think the British crown lied about it's prisoners being sent to a far off penal colony in the South Pacific and think Australia doesn't exist and that the British govt killed all the unwanted prisoners and made up the Australia penal colony story to cover up the murders of the prisoners. (I assume they think the govt sailed them off the edge of the Earth to their deaths? )

84Bill said Don't believe everything you think

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-23-2020).]

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-23-2020 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Speaking generally and to no one in particular

People are free to think whatever they want to i suppose.
1 in 10 (10%) Americans still have grave doubts that the US ever landed men on the moon in spite of overwhelming evidence that we did so.
Tens of thousands of people think lizard like aliens are walking around us in plain view but we just can't see them in spite of zero evidence to support such thought.
Thousands of people still insist the planet is flat and some have died trying to prove it. A like number also think the British crown lied about it's prisoners being sent to a far off penal colony in the South Pacific and think Australia doesn't exist and that the British govt killed all the unwanted prisoners and made up the Australia penal colony story to cover up the murders of the prisoners. (I assume they think the govt sailed them off the edge of the Earth to their deaths? )

84Bill said Don't believe everything you think



I am none of those people.
In fact if people want to use Synthesis as an example of a person that got covid, they should mention me as well, as an exact opposite. I have been among hundreds if not a thousand people that have tested positive for covid, over the last year. I have not even been sick with anything in a few years. I never took a flue shot, and never will. I will not take any covid shot either. If he is an example of covd, so am I. I am just the other side of the coin. I get tested once a week, and take absolutely no extra precautions than just a mask and when I can, space. I have hand sanitizer and gloves but do not use them excessively.
I never said I am a superman or immune to covid, I have said that I totally expect one of these days to get it.
The best we can do, is the best we can do. Common sense, a mask and some space works as well as anything else out there.
BTW, the infection rate out there is over 50% maybe even 60%. Literally over half the population has tested positive at some time in the last 9 months or so. Some have had 2 positive tests, and no symptoms with either test.
This covid is certainly real, certainly frustrating and certainly overblown.
Stay safe out there people.
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Notorio
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Report this Post11-23-2020 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for posting that article and associated links. As the forum's only laser spectroscopist (perhaps), I'd like to say that I found the technique and approach to be very creative. What is cool, with the set up being so inexpensive, is that many labs will be able to set up their own system and start to compare results when testing the same mask types, same conditions, etc. I think the 'spirit' of the team's effort was to get this method out into circulation quickly and let the process of Learning begin across many independent labs. They could have waited until they explored some of the many variables that WILL need to be explored to be able to make real conclusions (e.g. Person A vs Person B, Person A at different times, Distance from laser, how many times mask was used, etc.), but this way much more scrutiny will be brought to bear in relatively little time and We The People will certainly benefit. I say, bravo!



If you want to actually look at the live data, on the right side of figure 3B the Green trace shows the droplet count over time including the 5x repetition of a specific phrase, wearing no mask. How cool (!) that you can see when each phrase was spoken by the flood of particles! The Red trace is for speaking with a bandana, the Orange with a Cotton mask, and the Blue (too small to see) with the surgical mask. With data like that one could tentatively say that this particular Cotton (type, weave, surface treatment, etc., regrettably are variables) gets the job done pretty well and might be sufficient for areas where surgical masks are limited. Something to keep in mind when debating 'what is good enough protection?' is that we are protecting different 'risk' populations (e.g. some people are at much higher risk of having major symptoms) and we still don't know how many virus-laden particles need to be inhaled to give the virus a chance to do damage. I believe its a pretty significant number and not just one particle containing one virus.
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