I used to be a Democrat... I was a Democrat for many years and slowly became a Republican. My parents were Republican, but I actually didn't even really think about this. I was raised to love America, plain and simple. I was raised in the belief that the United States was the greatest country in the world, and we had "the" best form of Government, period. I still 100% wholly believe this.
In any case, I was JUST old enough to vote for Bill Clinton in his reelection campaign... and that was the first president I ever voted for. Although I voted for Bush in 2000, I voted straight-ticket Democrat on everything else. The last time I voted for a Democrat was in 2006 (mid-terms) when I, yet again... still voted straight-ticket Democrat. Ron Klien and Bill Nelson were in my district, along with school board and everything else.
I'm not sure if you're trying to prove to me that you can think critically with this or something, or that you add credibility by not having always been a Republican? I've never voted straight ticket, literally ever. I will not vote straight ticket yet again. All this shows me so far is that you have knee-jerk reactions.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
As I've "progressed," I try to consider what I was thinking back then, and the truth is... at the time it made sense. Those were sensible people, and that's why I voted for them. I remember the person who ran against Bill Nelson in 2006, and it was some guy... maybe Mel Martinez? I can't remember... but the guy was corrupt... very corrupt. After Bill Nelson became the "deciding vote" for the ACA, I started voting all Republican. At this point, I vote straight-ticket Republican. So it's been a good 14 years... but I realize that it wasn't me really that left the Democrat party, the Democrat party left me. The party is nothing like it used to be. There is a general hatred of America.
The difference between those of us on the right, libertarians, and Democrats who just haven't woken up yet, is that we all believe the United States is the greatest civilization and Constitution in history ... and that it can always be made better. On the far left however, there is the underlying belief that America was never great, and that it needs to be dismantled and remade into something ideologically radical. The speech by Kennedy, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country," would be considered fascist speech today by most Millennials.
I would love to vote Republican. I am for many of the things they say they're for. But when it comes to voting, Republicans haven't been for small government, they haven't been for individual liberties, they haven't been a defender of the People. The Republican Party is truly unlike what it used to be. It's a strange hollow puppet of its former self, and our current President has been a direct influence on its current state.
America has a great framework, but it hasn't always been great to its people equally. Calling that out nowadays is apparently radical hate speech against America. We should be able to face our historic hypocrisy and do something better for our future generations. Is that so radical?
For the record, I don't stand with the Democrats. I don't want universal healthcare. I don't want to burden someone for being successful with unequal taxation. I don't want free school. But at least Democrat policies align with their rhetoric. At least I can trust their presidential candidate more than 5% of the time.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Now, what is the point of all this? "Facts" and "Science" are consistent once we know that they are legitimate. The difference is that Democrats (today's version of Democrats) use some version of facts and science to further their ideological agenda. For example... Climate Change. We can all agree on at least a lowest common denominator of facts on this science... that we've at least unequivocally agreed to. We can and should be able to agree on ways to fix this. But the Democrats use Climate Change... not to fix problems with climate, but as a means to enact their ideological goals... such as to push socialism and wealth redistribution. The Climate Accord, among other things, was really just making the United States a checkbook for other countries. The "Carbon Credits" was just a means of welfare from one company to social programs and other means of wealth redistribution. All complete garbage that does nothing to solve the problem, but only furthers a Marxist / Socialist agenda.
I can only speak for my own bubble, but of my Facebook friends (about evenly split R/D), >90% of science denial is on the right. Do I want massive overhaul of taxes and credits to address Climate Change? No, but I do want an educated public who can make decisions for themselves on what companies they support. President Trump actively suppresses science related to Climate Change. I don't think this was a point well made.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Anyway, as I've said many times before. I don't think Clinton, Reagan, Obama, Biden, or anyone else would have handled things any differently... really any better. Every president would have (in hind-sight, a bad decision) gone into complete lock-down, and every president would have lifted restrictions on these lock-downs. What is obvious to me, and just like I've been saying in my long-ass diatribe above... the only reason why this death toll is important, is because Democrats are using it for political gain. They don't actually care what the number is... they only care that they can use it to get Trump out of office. That tells me all I need to know about the personality of the left...
I don't support a government-mandated lockdown. I do support an educated public who is trusted with facts and can make safe decisions for themselves, their families, and their businesses and employees.
The death toll is important because it's a lot of people. It's a LOT of people, who are DEAD, in part because our President failed to act and educate the public, choosing instead to downplay the virus and spread fake and misleading information. The number is 70x the death count of 9/11; if it's not a big deal to Republicans, that tells me all I need to know about the personality of the right.
The BDub: Regarding the spreadsheet/power presentation you made... The comparison of Covid vs influenza deaths for 2020 is a bit misleading. Flu season traditionally runs from Oct of one year and ends Apr 1 the following year and April is the last month CDC even issues a monthly influenza report each year. Flu season was already all but over by the time Covid really kicked off.
I would love to vote Republican. I am for many of the things they say they're for. But when it comes to voting, Republicans haven't been for small government, they haven't been for individual liberties, they haven't been a defender of the People.
America has a great framework, but it hasn't always been great to its people equally. Calling that out nowadays is apparently radical hate speech against America. We should be able to face our historic hypocrisy and do something better for our future generations. Is that so radical?
The “standard” answer from “the right” is, if you don’t like this country, leave it.
They used to reserve that comment to those that came here from other countries.
Now they apply it to anyone that don’t think like they do. They forget the most important part about the greatness of this country; If you don’t like the way this country does things, it is your right, your responsibility to change it.
Not “leave it”.
What “the right” has forgotten is that this country is not a “my way or the highway” proposition, and never has been.
For this country to work, it needs both sides. We are supposed to try to meet in the middle.
All one-way is not what our forefathers had in mind for this country. They already saw what that could do to a people.
I know we have lost our way when a simpleton like me has to remind supposed “patriots” that this is the TRUE meaning of what America is, and what it means to uphold & support its true ideals.
It’s about inclusion, not exclusion. It’s about compromise for the common good. It’s about working WITH each other, not against.
UNITED States of America. It’s right in the title...
Your countrymen is not your enemy. They just have slightly different ideas than yours. But the basis is the same; Freedom.
We are in this together. Love thy neahbor, do unto others, judge not...you know, all that crap people claim to believe but just don’t do.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 10-17-2020).]
(I have no idea what an 'influencer' is but evidently, intelligence isn't their strong suit)
An influencer (which wasn't even a real word until last year, lol) is a person, usually a social media personality of some type, that will say anything to keep you engaged, in order to make money.. That's basically it..
I don't support a government-mandated lockdown. I do support an educated public who is trusted with facts and can make safe decisions for themselves, their families, and their businesses and employees.
The death toll is important because it's a lot of people. It's a LOT of people, who are DEAD, in part because our President failed to act and educate the public, choosing instead to downplay the virus and spread fake and misleading information. The number is 70x the death count of 9/11; if it's not a big deal to Republicans, that tells me all I need to know about the personality of the right.
I'm not sure me responding would really provide any benefit to either of us. You're pretty set in your ways, and I am too. But I did want to answer a few things.
Neither party is really for smaller government. Both sides support MMT at this point, though the Republican side supports it just a little bit less, which is the best I can do between the options.
On voting straight-ticket. I never used to, but honestly, the form of representation that we have right now is not like it used to be. Take out the Romneys and the AOCs, and 99% of the representatives and senators are beholden to the parties. Bill Nelson for example. While I originally used to vote for him because I thought he would help further a pro-space agenda, he did absolutely nothing of the sort. He supported Obama's shutting down of most space programs and re-organization of NASA into more Earth-based projects. This led to catastrophic loses in science and technology. One example.
So now, I vote for the party ideology as a whole, since that is literally who our representatives are going to be voting with 9 times out of 10. To not vote straight ticket is really just ignoring the reality of the situation.
On science. My whole North-East / Leftist side of my family is anti-Vaxx. Science today has less to do with math and hypothesis, and far more to do with which political affiliation the group stands to benefit from.
The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer. As I said... I suspect no other president would have done it any differently. From the political aspect, the Democrats fought the president through the entire process... I think we all remember Pelosi in China-town in DC (which if I'm being honest, is not /really/ a Chinatown anymore). We also all SHOULD remember that as soon as he went to close the flights from China and other countries, the Democrats labelled it as racist.
I really am above the politics... I'm not interested in the tit for tat or the political gotchas. I just want to get things done, and this is why I voted for Trump. We've built hundreds of miles of wall, dramatically lowered taxes, gutted the ACA, didn't pass the TTP, actually held China accountable, and active seeks to disregard and push aside influence from foreign powers such as China, European Union, Iran, etc. I really see the Democrat party as more of a collection of corrupt power aspirants who each seek to become part of some imagined aristocracy.
The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer.
The loved ones of nearly 225,000 DEAD Americans would probably STRONGLY disagree with you. You may say "Well, that's just emotion talking." No, tho death is always fraught with emotion for each and everyone of us when it touches a family member. It's real world life (or lack there of) and death.
Win or lose, history will not be kind to President Trump over his denial of Covid19 being a serious problem that should have been dealt with much more strongly at the top of the chain of command instead of trying to minimize it in order to win re-election.
The loved ones of nearly 225,000 DEAD Americans would probably STRONGLY disagree with you. You may say "Well, that's just emotion talking." No, tho death is always fraught with emotion for each and everyone of us when it touches a family member. It's real world life (or lack there of) and death.
Win or lose, history will not be kind to President Trump over his denial of Covid19 being a serious problem that should have been dealt with much more strongly at the top of the chain of command instead of trying to minimize it in order to win re-election.
I have to disagree with you MJ. Trump didn’t cause those deaths.
LBJ alone didn't cause us to get involved in Vietnam and cause 58,000 Americans to die but he got the blame for what should have been on JFK's shoulders. GW Bush didn't cause the post Katrina debacle but he got the blame for it. (and in NOLA, still is)
Trump closed air travel from China on Jan 31 (effective Feb 2) but allowed tens of thousands of travelers to continue to come in from Europe for over a month (until March 11) and the virus eruption in NYC was directly caused by that failure of national leadership. The buck stops at the top, and as a CEO of his own company, he should have known that.
I have to disagree with you MJ. Trump didn’t cause those deaths.
Did he directly cause them, no, but indirectly? He downplayed it so hard, and caused so much confusion, especially at the beginning, that many of those that trust what he says took less precautions, considered it a "non issue" and helped spread the infection. Of course those who don't trust or listen to him, didn't follow his advice, so largely he did a disservice and likely caused more damage to his own supporters than anyone else.
And lets face it, if Biden, or Obama was president during this pandemic, and the handling of it was exactly the same as how Trump handled it, you and Republicans in general, would likely be singing a different tune. You would be blaming them for the deaths. Even if you didn't really believe it, because politically it would be an perfect opportunity to criticize him during the election cycle. You can deny that fact if you want for yourself personally, and I'll take your word on it, but don't even try to deny that Republicans in general wouldn't, because we all know they would, its politics after all. So don't pretend to be shocked that the Democrats are taking that narrative, because politically its just too juicy to ignore.
[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 10-19-2020).]
...caused by that failure of national leadership. .
And you’re stilll going to (or have) vote for him to “ lead” us.
I don’t know if this Biden guy is the answer we’re looking for, but I do know he at least has been in the same room multiple times with someone who has led us.
The one definite is Donald Trump is incapable of leading & uniting the American people.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure a great number of Americans actually want unity or equality. Some like the color chart just the way it is.
In that sense, White privilege is probably a real thing.
Don, I’m sure every thing you do is well thought out. Which is why your choice to support this man perplexes me.
That being said, I really don’t care. About any of them. My trust in them or the system is almost nonexistent.
I don’t know if this Biden guy is the answer we’re looking for, but I do know he at least has been in the same room multiple times with someone who has led us.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I'm not sure me responding would really provide any benefit to either of us. You're pretty set in your ways, and I am too. But I did want to answer a few things.
Neither party is really for smaller government. Both sides support MMT at this point, though the Republican side supports it just a little bit less, which is the best I can do between the options.
On voting straight-ticket. I never used to, but honestly, the form of representation that we have right now is not like it used to be. Take out the Romneys and the AOCs, and 99% of the representatives and senators are beholden to the parties. Bill Nelson for example. While I originally used to vote for him because I thought he would help further a pro-space agenda, he did absolutely nothing of the sort. He supported Obama's shutting down of most space programs and re-organization of NASA into more Earth-based projects. This led to catastrophic loses in science and technology. One example.
So now, I vote for the party ideology as a whole, since that is literally who our representatives are going to be voting with 9 times out of 10. To not vote straight ticket is really just ignoring the reality of the situation.
On science. My whole North-East / Leftist side of my family is anti-Vaxx. Science today has less to do with math and hypothesis, and far more to do with which political affiliation the group stands to benefit from.
The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer. As I said... I suspect no other president would have done it any differently. From the political aspect, the Democrats fought the president through the entire process... I think we all remember Pelosi in China-town in DC (which if I'm being honest, is not /really/ a Chinatown anymore). We also all SHOULD remember that as soon as he went to close the flights from China and other countries, the Democrats labelled it as racist.
I really am above the politics... I'm not interested in the tit for tat or the political gotchas. I just want to get things done, and this is why I voted for Trump. We've built hundreds of miles of wall, dramatically lowered taxes, gutted the ACA, didn't pass the TTP, actually held China accountable, and active seeks to disregard and push aside influence from foreign powers such as China, European Union, Iran, etc. I really see the Democrat party as more of a collection of corrupt power aspirants who each seek to become part of some imagined aristocracy.
What do you mean you never used to vote straight ticket? Didn't you just say you've voted straight ticket since your first vote with Bill Clinton? Or did I miss something?
The parties do control their candidates to a degree, and I can understand the theory... at a federal or even state level. When you get to judges (especially) and city representatives, no, the party isn't really a big part of who they are and what they'll be doing. It certainly does provide insight into how they think and who they're choosing to affiliate with, but I still choose to research every single candidate and issue on my ballot before voting. There are a ton of unqualified candidates. Here in TX, we have the Railroad Commission that regulates O&G. The Democrat candidate's experience is that she... litigated against O&G. I need someone who has worked in O&G to help regulate O&G. If I voted straight ticket, I would have missed that (and others).
None of the two major parties are for limited government in truth, but the Republicans still claim to be. I see it as one side is doing what they say they'll do, and the other... isn't. I'd love to lower entitlement programs, end many subsidy programs, keep taxes low, and more. Republicans say they agree... then don't do it.
Anti-vaxxers are idiots. My extremely religious and conservative sister is one. Apparently most anti-vaxxers are left. That doesn't change my statement. Most people I know who regularly decry science and facts lean right. It's just a personal observation, I haven't bothered to look up statistics on it (in part because how do you test each conspiracy theory, I feel like it's just hard to scientifically measure).
> "The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer."
This is where you completely lose me. No, the death toll is important because >200,000 ****ing people have died. It's nuts, man. It's a massive number of people. That number is absolutely bonkers insane. And of the people who haven't died, many are left with lasting health issues.
What do you mean you never used to vote straight ticket? Didn't you just say you've voted straight ticket since your first vote with Bill Clinton? Or did I miss something?
You did miss something. The first time I voted was for Bill Clinton in his reelection bid. I was 18. I voted half Republican / half Democrat, but voted for Bill Clinton. As a senior in high school, I went through the issues and voted on where each one stood, based on what made sense to me at the time.
I slowly became Republican, voting for a Republican president (after Bill Clinton), but voting almost all Democrat for everything else. Now, however... I vote straight ticket Republican... because I recognize that any Democrat I vote for is going to vote with Democrats 99% of the time. Maybe that wasn't a big deal for me years ago, but the Democrat party is completely radical. Here are some of the things the Democrat party supports:
- Open borders / illegal immigration. Why? Because they eventually want to be able to secure their vote forever by bringing in more voters. - Medicare 4 All... e.g. eliminating private insurance. Right now, corporations pay for 67% of all healthcare. Why do we want to relieve corporations of this burden and put it on the taxpayer? - Anti-American sentiment. They believe America is inherently flawed, and the only way to fix it is to tear it down and rebuild it. But really, this is disillusioned Democrats that don't understand that what they're really supporting is a Marxist agenda that wants to eliminate America, and they're the stooges. - More pandering to unions. Let's spend even MORE money on teachers unions and the school system, while providing an even worse product. - Lowest common denominator ... Democrats do not believe in meritocracy, which I do. - Socialism vs Capitalism - Constant wars, and the military industrial complex... - Democrats don't understand that lower taxes result in higher incomes, which RESULTS in higher tax revenue.
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Originally posted by theBDub: > "The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer."
This is where you completely lose me. No, the death toll is important because >200,000 ****ing people have died. It's nuts, man. It's a massive number of people. That number is absolutely bonkers insane. And of the people who haven't died, many are left with lasting health issues.
So, your response above is emotional. As I said before many times ... any death is a horrible loss. But it's only important TO YOU and the media, because it can be used as a political hammer.
Democrats don't understand that lower taxes result in higher incomes, which RESULTS in higher tax revenue.
This is the one remark from "82-T/A" (message immediately before this one) that I most have in mind, here.
"TCJA" is the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017; i.e., the first installment of the Trump Tax Plan. If there have been any really significant legislative changes affecting the broad issues of Federal and State evel taxation since the TCJA, I am unaware of it. Not that I follow these $-related issues all that closely. I don't.
This is the conclusion of a "longish" analysis that I just found online.
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Despite a decline in effective tax rate that is, on average, approximately five percent from the year preceding the TCJA, and ten percent from years 2015–2017, there are few indicia of the corporate-investment-led economic boom predicted by Trump administration officials. While it is difficult to definitively know why corporations have not significantly reinvested their tax savings in their employees, property, plants, or equipment, we have identified economic theories that predict such a lack of activity. Should further studies find similar results, they will support theories predicting that the incidence of corporate taxation falls mainly upon investors (as opposed to employees or customers), and that investor behavior is largely inelastic with respect to moderate changes in tax rates.
The TCJA cut taxes by $1.5 trillion and in the process conferred significant tax benefits on U.S. corporations. Unlike the predictions of the TCJA’s proponents, economic growth has shown no sign of increasing nearly to the extent necessary for the tax cut to pay for itself. In addition to increases in discretionary spending passed shortly after the TCJA, the United States now faces the largest federal budget deficit it has ever experienced during a period of peace and economic growth. While the long-term impacts of fiscal profligacy are as uncertain as the tax policy effects on economic growth, we should expect that such a sizable reduction in federal tax revenue comes with some economic benefits to offset the burden of increased debt. Based on our study, we have not found any such benefits in the post-TCJA behavior of U.S. corporations.
"Corporate Behavior and the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" Blog entry from April 2, 2020 (or is that February 4, 2020..?) from Nicholas H. Cohen and Manoj Viswanathan. The University of Chicago Law Review online. https://lawreviewblog.uchic...a-cohen-viswanathan/
Chicago U. is my Go To place for these kinds of $-related discussions. And I always "love me" some Austan Goolsbee. With Paul Krugman on the side.
Quincy Adams Wagstaff presided over the legendary Department of Economics at Huxley University.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 10-20-2020).]
Originally posted by theBDub: > "The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer."
This is where you completely lose me. No, the death toll is important because >200,000 ****ing people have died. It's nuts, man. It's a massive number of people. That number is absolutely bonkers insane. And of the people who haven't died, many are left with lasting health issues.
For years, I've tried to explain this issue, and it's almost uniquely American. People tend to take a very narrow view of events outside their immediate circle, and they draw mental circles around themselves, isolating themselves from the outside world and the events and issues in that outer world. It begins at their own doorstep, then they draw another at the boundary of their block, another at their city limit sign, another at their county line, and one at their state periphery. These concentric circles continue out, one at their region, and then one at the USA boundary. From the outside, it's an ever decreasing set of concentric circles of isolation and insulation. This, is not a new phenomenon either. It's been prevalent in the US for many decades, but with today's electronic news and information, it is much more pronounced, as issues can more easily penetrate those lines now.
"Rwanda? Where's that? How many died? oh well, that's their problem" "Syria? Who gives a Shiite about Syria...let 'em kill each other" "What? Someone was beheaded in France? That's way over in Europe. It doesn't affect me and I just don't care what happens to them" "NY City? That's over a thousand miles away. They can deal with it themselves." ""Corona virus is in Oregon and Washington State? Heck, I'm in Manhattan, I ain't gonna worry about them people out West" "It's just a couple of people from China, it's completely under control, nothing to worry about" "In Atlanta and Houston? I'm in New Mexico, we'll be fine here." "What? They closed down the cruise lines? Wife and I had a vacation planned next month. This sucks! "50,000 dead from China flu? I don't know a single person that has even had it. I'm not changing how I live because of a bunch of people I don't know"
It goes on and on until the event directly affects the individual at his doorstep or workplace and all of a sudden those affects have penetrated his/her last line of mental defense and that's when the belly aching really starts, but in the meantime, 200,000+ people have died. Some folks think if everyone would just stop talking and writing about it, the whole thing would just go away..out of sight, out of mind, but that won't stop the deaths.
And you’re stilll going to (or have) vote for him to “ lead” us.
I don’t know if this Biden guy is the answer we’re looking for, but I do know he at least has been in the same room multiple times with someone who has led us.
The one definite is Donald Trump is incapable of leading & uniting the American people.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure a great number of Americans actually want unity or equality. Some like the color chart just the way it is.
In that sense, White privilege is probably a real thing.
Don, I’m sure every thing you do is well thought out. Which is why your choice to support this man perplexes me.
That being said, I really don’t care. About any of them. My trust in them or the system is almost nonexistent.
Peace.
While I agree with maryjane on President Trump not exercising good judgement or leadership concerning the Pandemic, I also saw where the Dems called him racist when he tried to stop people coming from China and have done everything they could think of to give him hell. Throwing up all kinds of roadblocks and other crap. There's more to consider than just what should have happened, consider what the opposing forces were also doing and saying. The political fodder is deep and stinks to high heaven. Kind of like why there hasn't been a second stimulus plan. Speaker Pelosi thinks she has DJT by the nuts. That really doesn't matter at this point, he owns this and should have taken a different course.
Hind site is excellent and all the arm chair quarterbacking Biden claims now is pure Had Biden or Obama or HRC been in the Oval Office, they can say this or that but, as I said, hind site is a wonderful thing. Yep, I voted today. I voted for who I thought had done something for this country. Speaking of someone that united us, you can't seriously consider Obama and Biden as being successful at that? To each their own I guess.
Oh, BTW, I was able to avoid voting a straight ticket today. There was a non-affiliated person running unopposed for a job. He got my vote. I honestly am not filled with confidence that President Trump will win but, I will not vote for a loser and his running mate that I am convinced will turn this country into a social science experiment. IF Biden wins, you will lose many freedoms and you'll pay for those lost freedoms with higher taxes and there be more free stuff for those who don't pull their own weight. It happens every time the Dems get control. This coming from a registered Democrat.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-20-2020).]
Did he directly cause them, no, but indirectly? He downplayed it so hard, and caused so much confusion, especially at the beginning, that many of those that trust what he says took less precautions, considered it a "non issue" and helped spread the infection. Of course those who don't trust or listen to him, didn't follow his advice, so largely he did a disservice and likely caused more damage to his own supporters than anyone else.
And lets face it, if Biden, or Obama was president during this pandemic, and the handling of it was exactly the same as how Trump handled it, you and Republicans in general, would likely be singing a different tune. You would be blaming them for the deaths. Even if you didn't really believe it, because politically it would be an perfect opportunity to criticize him during the election cycle. You can deny that fact if you want for yourself personally, and I'll take your word on it, but don't even try to deny that Republicans in general wouldn't, because we all know they would, its politics after all. So don't pretend to be shocked that the Democrats are taking that narrative, because politically its just too juicy to ignore.
I remember Trump saying there is going to be a lot of death from this Wuhan Virus. I remember him sending 10s of thousands of Ventilators to NYC. And opening a field hospital. And sending a hospital ship. I also remember hardly any of it were used.
I also remember the Surgeon General saying you don’t need to wear a mask.
Yep, Trump’s fault. Hell, it would not have mattered what he did. Orange Man Bad even if he invented a vaccine and personally vaccinated every single person in the US.
This virus came from outside the US. It was already in the country when he closed the borders to China. As a free country you cannot lock down everyone of us forever. To put this on Trump’s shoulders is short sighted.
For years, I've tried to explain this issue, and it's almost uniquely American. People tend to take a very narrow view of events outside their immediate circle, and they draw mental circles around themselves, isolating themselves from the outside world and the events and issues in that outer world. It begins at their own doorstep, then they draw another at the boundary of their block, another at their city limit sign, another at their county line, and one at their state periphery. These concentric circles continue out, one at their region, and then one at the USA boundary. From the outside, it's an ever decreasing set of concentric circles of isolation and insulation. This, is not a new phenomenon either. It's been prevalent in the US for many decades, but with today's electronic news and information, it is much more pronounced, as issues can more easily penetrate those lines now.
"Rwanda? Where's that? How many died? oh well, that's their problem" "Syria? Who gives a Shiite about Syria...let 'em kill each other" "What? Someone was beheaded in France? That's way over in Europe. It doesn't affect me and I just don't care what happens to them" "NY City? That's over a thousand miles away. They can deal with it themselves." ""Corona virus is in Oregon and Washington State? Heck, I'm in Manhattan, I ain't gonna worry about them people out West" "It's just a couple of people from China, it's completely under control, nothing to worry about" "In Atlanta and Houston? I'm in New Mexico, we'll be fine here." "What? They closed down the cruise lines? Wife and I had a vacation planned next month. This sucks! "50,000 dead from China flu? I don't know a single person that has even had it. I'm not changing how I live because of a bunch of people I don't know"
It goes on and on until the event directly affects the individual at his doorstep or workplace and all of a sudden those affects have penetrated his/her last line of mental defense and that's when the belly aching really starts, but in the meantime, 200,000+ people have died. Some folks think if everyone would just stop talking and writing about it, the whole thing would just go away..out of sight, out of mind, but that won't stop the deaths.
This is obviously directed at me... and I'd simply say you're building a ridiculous straw-man. At no point did I say I didn't care about the deaths, or that they were unimportant to me. What I said is that it's mostly only important to the media, maybe you, and most Democrats because they are purposely using it as a political bludgeon. I shouldn't have to preface every single time I mention the deaths with a disclaimer that I do sincerely care. I've said that a few times, but it should be understood. There's no one on this message board that thinks 200k dead isn't important or doesn't care. For you to write everything you did above is kind of silly and pandering.
My arguments above still stand, and I think it goes without needing to say it every time, everyone here does care.
For years, I've tried to explain this issue, and it's almost uniquely American. People tend to take a very narrow view of events outside their immediate circle, and they draw mental circles around themselves, isolating themselves from the outside world and the events and issues in that outer world. It begins at their own doorstep, then they draw another at the boundary of their block, another at their city limit sign, another at their county line, and one at their state periphery. These concentric circles continue out, one at their region, and then one at the USA boundary. From the outside, it's an ever decreasing set of concentric circles of isolation and insulation. This, is not a new phenomenon either. It's been prevalent in the US for many decades, but with today's electronic news and information, it is much more pronounced, as issues can more easily penetrate those lines now.
"Rwanda? Where's that? How many died? oh well, that's their problem" "Syria? Who gives a Shiite about Syria...let 'em kill each other" "What? Someone was beheaded in France? That's way over in Europe. It doesn't affect me and I just don't care what happens to them" "NY City? That's over a thousand miles away. They can deal with it themselves." ""Corona virus is in Oregon and Washington State? Heck, I'm in Manhattan, I ain't gonna worry about them people out West" "It's just a couple of people from China, it's completely under control, nothing to worry about" "In Atlanta and Houston? I'm in New Mexico, we'll be fine here." "What? They closed down the cruise lines? Wife and I had a vacation planned next month. This sucks! "50,000 dead from China flu? I don't know a single person that has even had it. I'm not changing how I live because of a bunch of people I don't know"
It goes on and on until the event directly affects the individual at his doorstep or workplace and all of a sudden those affects have penetrated his/her last line of mental defense and that's when the belly aching really starts, but in the meantime, 200,000+ people have died. Some folks think if everyone would just stop talking and writing about it, the whole thing would just go away..out of sight, out of mind, but that won't stop the deaths.
I wonder if it has to do with our impact. We have such a big country that impacts so much of the world, we can live our whole lives in our bubble and not really have to think about other countries. We should, I just mean to say that it's possible not to. I think, in general, it's hard to think about things that aren't in your face. I doubt it's uniquely American, but almost definitely emphasized here.
(Sorry for the late reply... I missed further comments in here after not logging in for a few days)
We have such a big country that impacts so much of the world, we can live our whole lives in our bubble and not really have to think about other countries. We should, I just mean to say that it's possible not to. I think, in general, it's hard to think about things that aren't in your face. I doubt it's uniquely American, but almost definitely emphasized here.
I see this here in O/T all the time. It's not only an observation, it's been clearly/bluntly stated to me on numerous occasions.
Canadians, on the other hand, are more inclined to look outside of our immediate bubble. There's obviously no escape from being influenced by the huge American presence to the south, but Canadians have traditionally also had a strong connection to the British Isles. However, that tie is weakening, as immigration from non-British countries increases exponentially. I don't necessarily see that as a negative thing though (despite my own ties to Ireland and Scotland). Widening one's perspective is never a bad thing.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-24-2020).]
I wonder if it has to do with our impact. We have such a big country that impacts so much of the world, we can live our whole lives in our bubble and not really have to think about other countries. We should, I just mean to say that it's possible not to. I think, in general, it's hard to think about things that aren't in your face. I doubt it's uniquely American, but almost definitely emphasized here.
(Sorry for the late reply... I missed further comments in here after not logging in for a few days)
Note that I said "almost" uniquely American. Every nation and even region has their own brand of nationalism, and as far as regions go, Texas certainly has a very long and storied history of it .
I was referring more on an individual or within groups scenario. I have for decades seen and heard both individuals and groups of people make decisions and live their lives as if there was no outside world at all beyond their own front doors, then one day something that took place far away or outside their own little enclave directly affected them and they acted as if this was something altogether new or that it was a terrible injustice placed upon themselves when the real cause was their own ignorance and self isolation.
It's very much narcistic in nature and a good bit of selfishness to boot. It's all well and good until it's their own ox that gets gored or gets stuck in the ditch, they cry that it's someone else that caused it and then you hear a completely different tone of voice than what had been coming out of their pie holes for years..
This sucks! 
Had Biden or Obama or HRC been in the Oval Office, they can say this or that but, as I said, hind site is a wonderful thing. Yep, I voted today. I voted for who I thought had done something for this country. Speaking of someone that united us, you can't seriously consider Obama and Biden as being successful at that? To each their own I guess.
