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Total Deaths vs. COVID-19 by theBDub
Started on: 10-05-2020 10:12 AM
Replies: 95 (1101 views)
Last post by: Lambo nut on 10-19-2020 11:49 AM
theBDub
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Report this Post10-16-2020 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey, sorry... crazy week at work.

 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I used to be a Democrat... I was a Democrat for many years and slowly became a Republican. My parents were Republican, but I actually didn't even really think about this. I was raised to love America, plain and simple. I was raised in the belief that the United States was the greatest country in the world, and we had "the" best form of Government, period. I still 100% wholly believe this.

In any case, I was JUST old enough to vote for Bill Clinton in his reelection campaign... and that was the first president I ever voted for. Although I voted for Bush in 2000, I voted straight-ticket Democrat on everything else. The last time I voted for a Democrat was in 2006 (mid-terms) when I, yet again... still voted straight-ticket Democrat. Ron Klien and Bill Nelson were in my district, along with school board and everything else.



I'm not sure if you're trying to prove to me that you can think critically with this or something, or that you add credibility by not having always been a Republican? I've never voted straight ticket, literally ever. I will not vote straight ticket yet again. All this shows me so far is that you have knee-jerk reactions.


 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

As I've "progressed," I try to consider what I was thinking back then, and the truth is... at the time it made sense. Those were sensible people, and that's why I voted for them. I remember the person who ran against Bill Nelson in 2006, and it was some guy... maybe Mel Martinez? I can't remember... but the guy was corrupt... very corrupt. After Bill Nelson became the "deciding vote" for the ACA, I started voting all Republican. At this point, I vote straight-ticket Republican. So it's been a good 14 years... but I realize that it wasn't me really that left the Democrat party, the Democrat party left me. The party is nothing like it used to be. There is a general hatred of America.

The difference between those of us on the right, libertarians, and Democrats who just haven't woken up yet, is that we all believe the United States is the greatest civilization and Constitution in history ... and that it can always be made better. On the far left however, there is the underlying belief that America was never great, and that it needs to be dismantled and remade into something ideologically radical. The speech by Kennedy, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country," would be considered fascist speech today by most Millennials.



I would love to vote Republican. I am for many of the things they say they're for. But when it comes to voting, Republicans haven't been for small government, they haven't been for individual liberties, they haven't been a defender of the People. The Republican Party is truly unlike what it used to be. It's a strange hollow puppet of its former self, and our current President has been a direct influence on its current state.

America has a great framework, but it hasn't always been great to its people equally. Calling that out nowadays is apparently radical hate speech against America. We should be able to face our historic hypocrisy and do something better for our future generations. Is that so radical?

For the record, I don't stand with the Democrats. I don't want universal healthcare. I don't want to burden someone for being successful with unequal taxation. I don't want free school. But at least Democrat policies align with their rhetoric. At least I can trust their presidential candidate more than 5% of the time.


 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Now, what is the point of all this? "Facts" and "Science" are consistent once we know that they are legitimate. The difference is that Democrats (today's version of Democrats) use some version of facts and science to further their ideological agenda. For example... Climate Change. We can all agree on at least a lowest common denominator of facts on this science... that we've at least unequivocally agreed to. We can and should be able to agree on ways to fix this. But the Democrats use Climate Change... not to fix problems with climate, but as a means to enact their ideological goals... such as to push socialism and wealth redistribution. The Climate Accord, among other things, was really just making the United States a checkbook for other countries. The "Carbon Credits" was just a means of welfare from one company to social programs and other means of wealth redistribution. All complete garbage that does nothing to solve the problem, but only furthers a Marxist / Socialist agenda.



I can only speak for my own bubble, but of my Facebook friends (about evenly split R/D), >90% of science denial is on the right. Do I want massive overhaul of taxes and credits to address Climate Change? No, but I do want an educated public who can make decisions for themselves on what companies they support. President Trump actively suppresses science related to Climate Change. I don't think this was a point well made.

 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


Anyway, as I've said many times before. I don't think Clinton, Reagan, Obama, Biden, or anyone else would have handled things any differently... really any better. Every president would have (in hind-sight, a bad decision) gone into complete lock-down, and every president would have lifted restrictions on these lock-downs. What is obvious to me, and just like I've been saying in my long-ass diatribe above... the only reason why this death toll is important, is because Democrats are using it for political gain. They don't actually care what the number is... they only care that they can use it to get Trump out of office. That tells me all I need to know about the personality of the left...



I don't support a government-mandated lockdown. I do support an educated public who is trusted with facts and can make safe decisions for themselves, their families, and their businesses and employees.

The death toll is important because it's a lot of people. It's a LOT of people, who are DEAD, in part because our President failed to act and educate the public, choosing instead to downplay the virus and spread fake and misleading information. The number is 70x the death count of 9/11; if it's not a big deal to Republicans, that tells me all I need to know about the personality of the right.
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maryjane
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Report this Post10-17-2020 10:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The BDub:
Regarding the spreadsheet/power presentation you made...
The comparison of Covid vs influenza deaths for 2020 is a bit misleading.
Flu season traditionally runs from Oct of one year and ends Apr 1 the following year and April is the last month CDC even issues a monthly influenza report each year.
Flu season was already all but over by the time Covid really kicked off.

A great presentation otherwise tho.

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Report this Post10-17-2020 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgClick Here to Email BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

I would love to vote Republican. I am for many of the things they say they're for. But when it comes to voting, Republicans haven't been for small government, they haven't been for individual liberties, they haven't been a defender of the People.

America has a great framework, but it hasn't always been great to its people equally. Calling that out nowadays is apparently radical hate speech against America. We should be able to face our historic hypocrisy and do something better for our future generations. Is that so radical?



The “standard” answer from “the right” is, if you don’t like this country, leave it.

They used to reserve that comment to those that came here from other countries.

Now they apply it to anyone that don’t think like they do.
They forget the most important part about the greatness of this country; If you don’t like the way this country does things, it is your right, your responsibility to change it.

Not “leave it”.

What “the right” has forgotten is that this country is not a “my way or the highway” proposition, and never has been.

For this country to work, it needs both sides.
We are supposed to try to meet in the middle.

All one-way is not what our forefathers had in mind for this country. They already saw what that could do to a people.

I know we have lost our way when a simpleton like me has to remind supposed “patriots” that this is the TRUE meaning of what America is, and what it means to uphold & support its true ideals.

It’s about inclusion, not exclusion.
It’s about compromise for the common good.
It’s about working WITH each other, not against.

UNITED States of America.
It’s right in the title...

Your countrymen is not your enemy.
They just have slightly different ideas than yours.
But the basis is the same; Freedom.

We are in this together.
Love thy neahbor, do unto others, judge not...you know, all that crap people claim to believe but just don’t do.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 10-17-2020).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post10-18-2020 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another 'non-believer' was converted............. https://www.eonline.com/new...lowers-it-wasnt-real

Too bad he didn't learn earlier.

(I have no idea what an 'influencer' is but evidently, intelligence isn't their strong suit)
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Jonesy
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Report this Post10-18-2020 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Another 'non-believer' was converted............. https://www.eonline.com/new...lowers-it-wasnt-real

Too bad he didn't learn earlier.

(I have no idea what an 'influencer' is but evidently, intelligence isn't their strong suit)



An influencer (which wasn't even a real word until last year, lol) is a person, usually a social media personality of some type, that will say anything to keep you engaged, in order to make money.. That's basically it..
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-18-2020 12:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

I have no idea what an 'influencer' is but evidently, intelligence isn't their strong suit.


One can only imagine the IQ level of a "follower".
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Report this Post10-18-2020 03:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post10-18-2020 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Hey, sorry... crazy week at work.

I don't support a government-mandated lockdown. I do support an educated public who is trusted with facts and can make safe decisions for themselves, their families, and their businesses and employees.

The death toll is important because it's a lot of people. It's a LOT of people, who are DEAD, in part because our President failed to act and educate the public, choosing instead to downplay the virus and spread fake and misleading information. The number is 70x the death count of 9/11; if it's not a big deal to Republicans, that tells me all I need to know about the personality of the right.



I'm not sure me responding would really provide any benefit to either of us. You're pretty set in your ways, and I am too. But I did want to answer a few things.

Neither party is really for smaller government. Both sides support MMT at this point, though the Republican side supports it just a little bit less, which is the best I can do between the options.

On voting straight-ticket. I never used to, but honestly, the form of representation that we have right now is not like it used to be. Take out the Romneys and the AOCs, and 99% of the representatives and senators are beholden to the parties. Bill Nelson for example. While I originally used to vote for him because I thought he would help further a pro-space agenda, he did absolutely nothing of the sort. He supported Obama's shutting down of most space programs and re-organization of NASA into more Earth-based projects. This led to catastrophic loses in science and technology. One example.

So now, I vote for the party ideology as a whole, since that is literally who our representatives are going to be voting with 9 times out of 10. To not vote straight ticket is really just ignoring the reality of the situation.

On science. My whole North-East / Leftist side of my family is anti-Vaxx. Science today has less to do with math and hypothesis, and far more to do with which political affiliation the group stands to benefit from.

The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer. As I said... I suspect no other president would have done it any differently. From the political aspect, the Democrats fought the president through the entire process... I think we all remember Pelosi in China-town in DC (which if I'm being honest, is not /really/ a Chinatown anymore). We also all SHOULD remember that as soon as he went to close the flights from China and other countries, the Democrats labelled it as racist.

I really am above the politics... I'm not interested in the tit for tat or the political gotchas. I just want to get things done, and this is why I voted for Trump. We've built hundreds of miles of wall, dramatically lowered taxes, gutted the ACA, didn't pass the TTP, actually held China accountable, and active seeks to disregard and push aside influence from foreign powers such as China, European Union, Iran, etc. I really see the Democrat party as more of a collection of corrupt power aspirants who each seek to become part of some imagined aristocracy.
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Report this Post10-19-2020 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
The death toll is only important because it can be leveraged right now as a political hammer.


The loved ones of nearly 225,000 DEAD Americans would probably STRONGLY disagree with you.
You may say "Well, that's just emotion talking."
No, tho death is always fraught with emotion for each and everyone of us when it touches a family member. It's real world life (or lack there of) and death.

Win or lose, history will not be kind to President Trump over his denial of Covid19 being a serious problem that should have been dealt with much more strongly at the top of the chain of command instead of trying to minimize it in order to win re-election.
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Report this Post10-19-2020 02:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


The loved ones of nearly 225,000 DEAD Americans would probably STRONGLY disagree with you.
You may say "Well, that's just emotion talking."
No, tho death is always fraught with emotion for each and everyone of us when it touches a family member. It's real world life (or lack there of) and death.

Win or lose, history will not be kind to President Trump over his denial of Covid19 being a serious problem that should have been dealt with much more strongly at the top of the chain of command instead of trying to minimize it in order to win re-election.


I have to disagree with you MJ. Trump didn’t cause those deaths.
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maryjane
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Report this Post10-19-2020 06:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LBJ alone didn't cause us to get involved in Vietnam and cause 58,000 Americans to die but he got the blame for what should have been on JFK's shoulders.
GW Bush didn't cause the post Katrina debacle but he got the blame for it. (and in NOLA, still is)

Trump closed air travel from China on Jan 31 (effective Feb 2) but allowed tens of thousands of travelers to continue to come in from Europe for over a month (until March 11) and the virus eruption in NYC was directly caused by that failure of national leadership.
The buck stops at the top, and as a CEO of his own company, he should have known that.
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Report this Post10-19-2020 08:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JonesySend a Private Message to JonesyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:


I have to disagree with you MJ. Trump didn’t cause those deaths.


Did he directly cause them, no, but indirectly? He downplayed it so hard, and caused so much confusion, especially at the beginning, that many of those that trust what he says took less precautions, considered it a "non issue" and helped spread the infection. Of course those who don't trust or listen to him, didn't follow his advice, so largely he did a disservice and likely caused more damage to his own supporters than anyone else.

And lets face it, if Biden, or Obama was president during this pandemic, and the handling of it was exactly the same as how Trump handled it, you and Republicans in general, would likely be singing a different tune. You would be blaming them for the deaths. Even if you didn't really believe it, because politically it would be an perfect opportunity to criticize him during the election cycle. You can deny that fact if you want for yourself personally, and I'll take your word on it, but don't even try to deny that Republicans in general wouldn't, because we all know they would, its politics after all. So don't pretend to be shocked that the Democrats are taking that narrative, because politically its just too juicy to ignore.

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 10-19-2020).]

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Report this Post10-19-2020 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgClick Here to Email BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

...caused by that failure of national leadership.
.


And you’re stilll going to (or have) vote for him to “ lead” us.

I don’t know if this Biden guy is the answer we’re looking for, but I do know he at least has been in the same room multiple times with someone who has led us.

The one definite is Donald Trump is incapable of leading & uniting the American people.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure a great number of Americans actually want unity or equality.
Some like the color chart just the way it is.

In that sense, White privilege is probably a real thing.

Don, I’m sure every thing you do is well thought out.
Which is why your choice to support this man perplexes me.

That being said, I really don’t care.
About any of them.
My trust in them or the system is almost nonexistent.

Peace.
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Lambo nut
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Report this Post10-19-2020 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


I don’t know if this Biden guy is the answer we’re looking for, but I do know he at least has been in the same room multiple times with someone who has led us.



Best joke I've heard in a while!
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Lambo nut
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Report this Post10-19-2020 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lambo nut

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quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:

Don, I’m sure every thing you do is well thought out.



Considering the source, this is epic!
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Lambo nut
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Report this Post10-19-2020 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lambo nut

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quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:

I really don’t care.




Yet here you are, bitching once again.
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