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Previously unknown side effect of Trump-touted Covid-19 drug: Expert gets 'downsized' by rinselberg
Started on: 04-22-2020 06:20 PM
Replies: 56 (865 views)
Last post by: randye on 05-22-2020 05:39 PM
cliffw
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Report this Post04-25-2020 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
How would you explain Trump to Eisenhower or Reagan? Both of them obviously put the welfare of the country above both themselves and their party. Both of them talked like adults, and both of them had class.


I think Eisenhower and Reagan would not need an explanation. I can't speak to Eisenhower but I think Reagan would vote for Trump, again.

I think your President has the interests of the country first and foremost, just as he tries to do the best by any business he operated.

Talk like adults ? Class ? Subjective.

 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
Trump has stated recently ... Do you see how utterly egocentric those statements are?


Even though you omitted context I do not. He is as egocentric as any coach might be if he were only berated, no matter the good he has done. Perhaps he has not done a perfect job but we didn't expect Jesus.

 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
What ever happened to the old conservative values that I hold dear; Fiscal responsibility- No Deficit spending, Pro-military but not pro-war, (Teddy; "Speak softly and carry a big stick"), and pro-middle class ...The Gigantic tax cut for the ultra rich while screwing the middle class and burying the country in debt completely contradicted those ideals ...


Fiscal responsibility :
I have seen no evidence either party has managed that when using other people's money. I do think the conservative ideals are more fiscally responsible. I also think their spending is more logical towards fiscal responsibility.

No Deficit spending :
Ha ! Neither party has achieved that, nor claimed they would. I hope that President Trump has an eye in the necessity of that, having been a business man and NOT a politician.

Pro-military but not pro-war :
Your President has had many an opportunity to go to war. The loony left has predicted more Trump caused wars than the zero he has started or responded to. Sometimes though, others need to know how a big stick feels when bopped upside the head.

The Gigantic tax cut blah blah blah :

How did that bury the middle class ?
The country, including voters who want their free ice cream, has been burying the country in debt since forever.

 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
Of course, numerous fellow conservatives told me that "We will build the economy up to eliminate all of that debt- what could go wrong?"


It worked for Democrat John F Kennedy and Republican Ronald Reagan. It also worked for your President.
Pray do tell ... how do you bring the economy up from the bottom up ? The richest already pay the most in taxes. American businesses are taxed the highest in the world, forcing our companies to relocate overseas in better tax climates. Just as people are fleeing high tax States.

 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
And the economy is doing just great now, right?


Really, ? Perhaps you didn't notice. It is in a pandemic downfall. As are the worlds economies.
Before the pandemic, it was doing the best in US history, on all fronts that come to mind right now.
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Report this Post04-25-2020 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Talk like adults ? Class ? Subjective.



Leftists are fixated on what President Trump says.

His supporters are focused on what he does.


He Fights


Evan Sayet Jul 13, 2017

My Leftist friends (as well as many ardent #NeverTrumpers) constantly ask me if I’m not bothered by Donald Trump’s lack of decorum.

They ask if I don’t think his tweets are “beneath the dignity of the office.” Here’s my answer:

We Right-thinking people have tried dignity.

There could not have been a man of more quiet dignity than George W. Bush as he suffered the outrageous lies and politically motivated hatreds that undermined his presidency.

We tried statesmanship. Could there be another human being on this earth who so desperately prized “collegiality” as John McCain?

We tried propriety – has there been a nicer human being ever than Mitt Romney? And the results were always the same.

This is because, while we were playing by the rules of dignity, collegiality and propriety, the Left has been, for the past 60 years, engaged in a knife fight where the only rules are those of Saul Alinsky and the Chicago mob.

I don’t find anything “dignified,” “collegial” or “proper” about Barack Obama’s lying about what went down on the streets of Ferguson in order to ramp up racial hatreds because racial hatreds serve the Democratic Party. I don’t see anything “dignified” in lying about the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi and imprisoning an innocent filmmaker to cover your tracks. I don’t see anything “statesman-like” in weaponizing the IRS to be used to destroy your political opponents and any dissent. Yes, Obama was “articulate” and “polished” but in no way was he in the least bit “dignified,” “collegial” or “proper.”

The Left has been engaged in a war against America since the rise of the Children of the ‘60s. To them, it has been an all-out war where nothing is held sacred and nothing is seen as beyond the pale. It has been a war they’ve fought with violence, the threat of violence, demagoguery and lies from day one – the violent take-over of the universities – till today.

The problem is that, through these years, the Left has been the only side fighting this war. While the Left has been taking a knife to anyone who stands in their way, the Right has continued to act with dignity, collegiality and propriety.

With Donald Trump, this all has come to an end. Donald Trump is America’s first wartime president in the Culture War.

During wartime, things like “dignity” and “collegiality” simply aren’t the most essential qualities one looks for in their warriors. Ulysses Grant was a drunk whose behavior in peacetime might well have seen him drummed out of the Army for conduct unbecoming.

Had Abraham Lincoln applied the peacetime rules of propriety and booted Grant, the Democrats might well still be holding their slaves today. Lincoln rightly recognized that, “I cannot spare this man. He fights.”

General George Patton was a vulgar-talking, son-of-a-***** . In peacetime, this might have seen him stripped of rank. But, had Franklin Roosevelt applied the normal rules of decorum, then Hitler and the Socialists would barely be five decades into their thousand-year Reich.

Trump is fighting. And what’s particularly delicious is that, like Patton standing over the battlefield as his tanks obliterated Rommel’s, he’s shouting, “You magnificent bastards, I read your book!” That is just the icing on the cake, but it’s wonderful to see that not only is Trump fighting, he’s defeating the Left using their own tactics.

That book is Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals – a book so essential to the Liberals’ war against America that it is and was the playbook for the entire Obama administration and the subject of Hillary Clinton’s senior thesis. It is a book of such pure evil, that, just as the rest of us would dedicate our book to those we most love or those to whom we are most indebted, Alinsky dedicated his book to Lucifer.

Trump’s tweets may seem rash and unconsidered but, in reality, he is doing exactly what Alinsky suggested his followers do.

First, instead of going after “the fake media” – and they are so fake that they have literally gotten every single significant story of the past 60 years not just wrong, but diametrically opposed to the truth, from the Tet Offensive to Benghazi, to what really happened on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri – Trump isolated CNN. He made it personal. Then, just as Alinsky suggests, he employs ridicule which Alinsky described as “the most powerful weapon of all.”

Everyone gets that it’s not just CNN – in fact, in a world where Al Sharpton and Rachel Maddow, Paul Krugman and Nicholas Kristof are people of influence and whose “reporting” is in no way significantly different than CNN’s – CNN is just a piker.

Most importantly, Trump’s tweets have put CNN in an untenable and unwinnable position. With Trump’s ability to go around them, they cannot simply stand pat. They need to respond. This leaves them with only two choices.

They can either “go high” (as Hillary would disingenuously declare of herself and the fake news would disingenuously report as the truth) and begin to honestly and accurately report the news or they can double-down on their usual tactics and hope to defeat Trump with twice their usual hysteria and demagoguery.

The problem for CNN (et al.) with the former is that, if they were to start honestly reporting the news, that would be the end of the Democratic Party they serve.
It is nothing but the incessant use of fake news (read: propaganda) that keeps the Left alive.

Imagine, for example, if CNN had honestly and accurately reported then-candidate Barack Obama’s close ties to foreign terrorists (Rashid Khalidi), domestic terrorists (William Ayers), the mafia (Tony Rezko) or the true evils of his spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright’s, church.

Imagine if they had honestly and accurately conveyed the evils of the Obama administration’s weaponizing of the IRS to be used against their political opponents or his running of guns to the Mexican cartels or the truth about the murder of Ambassador Christopher Stevens and the Obama administration’s cover-up.

This makes “going high” a non-starter for CNN. This leaves them no other option but to ratchet up the fake news, conjuring up the next “nothing burger” and devoting 24 hours a day to hysterical rants about how it’s “worse than Nixon.”

This, obviously, is what CNN has chosen to do. The problem is that, as they become more and more hysterical, they become more and more obvious. Each new effort at even faker news than before and faker “outrage” only makes that much more clear to any objective observer that Trump is and always has been right about the fake news media.

And, by causing their hysteria, Trump has forced them into numerous, highly embarrassing and discrediting mistakes. Thus, in their desperation, they have lowered their standards even further and run with articles so clearly fake that, even with the liberal (lower case “l”) libel laws protecting the media, they’ve had to wholly retract and erase their stories repeatedly.

Their flailing at Trump has even seen them cross the line into criminality, with CNN using their vast corporate fortune to hunt down a private citizen for having made fun of them in an Internet meme. This threat to “dox” – release of personal information to encourage co-ideologists to visit violence upon him and his family -- a political satirist was chilling in that it clearly wasn’t meant just for him. If it were, there would have been no reason for CNN to have made their “deal” with him public.

Instead, CNN – playing by “Chicago Rules” – was sending a message to any and all: dissent will not be tolerated.

This heavy-handed and hysterical response to a joke on the Internet has backfired on CNN, giving rise to only more righteous ridicule.

So, to my friends on the Left – and the #NeverTrumpers as well -- do I wish we lived in a time when our president could be “collegial” and “dignified” and “proper”? Of course I do. These aren’t those times. This is war. And it’s a war that the Left has been fighting without opposition for the past 50 years.

So, say anything you want about this president – I get it, he can be vulgar, he can be crude, he can be undignified at times. I don’t care.

I can’t spare this man. He fights.


https://townhall.com/column...3/he-fights-n2354580

.........................

Evan Sayet is the author of The KinderGarden of Eden: How The Modern Liberal Thinks. His lecture to the Heritage Foundation on this same topic remains, some ten years later, by far the single most viewed lecture in their history.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-25-2020).]

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cliffw
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Report this Post04-26-2020 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good read. I had not noticed Trump employing Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. Evan Sayet seems to be right.

I used to laugh, still do, at the claim that President Trump acts un-presidential. Meant to ridicule. Anything a President does is Presidential, .

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Leftists are fixated on what President Trump says. His supporters are focused on what he does.


The leftists are indeed fixated on what President Trump does. So as to best spin their YAWN, to the President and their story telling yarn to "their people".
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Report this Post05-16-2020 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Dr Bright's professional credentials include a PhD in Immunology and Molecular Pathogenesis from Emory University.


Those would be educational credentials.

Let's look at his professional credentials.

Who put that frail nimrod in the position he was fired from ? Losing a job crates enough stress to cause an inability to work ? Many people work with hypertension. He will likely ride that horse to death and sue the American citizens for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Test your pain threshold at the three hours and thirty five minute mark. How much pain can you stand ?

Really, the whole US House of Representatives coverage was a complete embarrassment that someone placed Bright in that position.

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Report this Post05-16-2020 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, cliffw, I am here to say--leaving Dr Bright aside--that President Trump's handling of the coronavirus incursion or world tour (more commonly referred to as a "pandemic", but this is an uncommon message) has been more of a negative in my eyes (and ears) than a positive.

First, his public explanations and remarks at the various press conferences, coronavirus briefings and other events where he has stepped in front of a microphone or spoken in front of reporters. HIs discourse has been ludicrous at times--too many times. His frequent references to the hydroxychloroquine medicine immediately raised two questions in my mind:
  1. Did he really know what the hell he was talking about?
  2. Was he consciously or even unconsciously (had the seed been planted in his mind?) doing a favor for someone with a financial interest in the promotion of the hydroxychloroquine medicine?

I'm going to cut this short, for the moment, but it's discourse like that, from President Trump, that sets the stage for a "Dr Bright" to come forward and accuse the Trump administration--among other complaints and accusations--of "shilling" for what was an unproven medication, when there was no good reason for the President to be singling out hydroxychloroquine in such a conspicuous manner.

When I started this forum topic, I put it forward as an emerging news story. I wasn't "shilling" for Dr Bright or--to invoke a football analogy--trying to put blocks on defenders and open up a running lane for Dr Bright. I worded my new topic "Previously unknown side effect of Trump-touted Covid-19 drug: Expert gets 'downsized'" with an eye to angling for the attention and interest of the forum "faithful."

Anyone who interprets that as my going all out for Dr Bright or endorsing him when the news story about him had only just surfaced--any such person (not referring to cliffw, particularly; just any such person) is not a skilled or careful reader. Anyone who reacted to my forum topic in an uncouth way is (1) either not a skilled or careful reader, or (2) is expressing some agenda on their part that precludes them from formulating any intelligent response to my forum topic--not saying anything at all would have been an intelligent response--the "null" response--or (3) is fundamentally uncouth. Very possibly "is, is and is"--checking off all three of those boxes.

I have no regrets or second thoughts about having started this forum topic, or starting it in the style and using the wordings that I used.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-16-2020).]

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Report this Post05-18-2020 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

When I started this forum topic, I put it forward as an emerging news story. I wasn't "shilling" for Dr Bright.

Anyone who interprets that as my going all out for Dr Bright or endorsing him when the news story about him had only just surfaced is not a skilled or careful reader. Anyone who reacted to my forum topic in an uncouth way is (1) either not a skilled or careful reader, or (2) is expressing some agenda on their part that precludes them from formulating any intelligent response to my forum topic.


Perhaps you weren't "shilling" for Dr Bright. Yes you were, because it paints your President in a bad light. I am a careful reader and I read you just fine with your intelligence sources. Which expresses your agenda (which I have no problem with). Just as your intelligence sources, you never post anything positive about your President.

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Well, cliffw, I am here to say that President Trump's handling of the coronavirus "pandemic" has been more of a negative in my eyes than a positive.


Did your President do anything right ? Did any of the Dumbocrats offer up a winning idea ?

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
My President's discourse has been ludicrous at times--too many times.

His frequent references to the hydroxychloroquine medicine immediately raised two questions in my mind:
  1. Did he really know what the hell he was talking about?
  2. Was he consciously or even unconsciously (had the seed been planted in his mind?) doing a favor for someone with a financial interest in the promotion of the hydroxychloroquine medicine?


Your President's references to the hydroxychloroquine medicine immediately raised two questions in your mind ? Your agenda is very telling.

Your President relayed information he had heard which he thought was credible. Information which a Dumbocrat Congressional member thanked him for, in the Oval Office. It saved her life.

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
... it's discourse like that, from President Trump, that sets the stage for a "Dr Bright" to come forward and accuse the Trump administration--among other complaints and accusations--of "shilling" for what was an unproven medication, when there was no good reason for the President to be singling out hydroxychloroquine in such a conspicuous manner.


As it relates to chloroquine, it was Dr. Bright who requested an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for donations of chloroquine that Bayer and Sandoz recently made to the Strategic National Stockpile for use on COVID-19 patients.

Rick Brights demotion was more than a year in the making — Bright had clashed with department leaders about his decisions and the scope of his authority — but came abruptly, said five current and former HHS officials.

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Report this Post05-21-2020 04:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Did your President do anything right?

He stopped the daily (or near daily) Reelection Campaign events that he was staging, which were disguised or masquerading as "Coronavirus Briefings."

Although if he hadn't already been doing that, he wouldn't have had to stop.

There is a Contact Tracing Gap, which is being exacerbated (in part) by a Testing Gap. There has been (and continues to be) a Personal Protective Equipment or PPE Gap.

From my perspective, as a prospective SARS-CoV-2 virus replication center or (as more commonly described) a "potential Covid-19 victim", the Trump administration and especially the President himself--particularly with his habit of making bizarre and incoherent remarks--has created the perception of a Confidence Gap.

But instead of continuing in the same way, of playing a kind of badminton where the shuttlecock is the last posted message from one forum member or another, I am puzzling over a fairly brief "read" that was brought to my attention by--you guessed it--MSNBC.

"To Fix the COVID-19 Testing Gap, Take a Lesson from GM (or the Pentagon)"
Jeremy Konyndyk, Kevin O’Connell and Dylan George for Just Security; May 21, 2020.
https://www.justsecurity.or...-gm-or-the-pentagon/

Could the President be achieving even more in the burgeoning field of Gap Mitigation by reorienting towards the implementation of a more assertive and organized national posture, empowered by a more proactive vision of the Oval Office, in terms of bringing the unique possibilities of the Federal Government into play to better effect what seem to be the obvious requirements for Supply Chain Optimization?

In a word, "Logistics."

In two words, "More Logistics."

In five words, "More Federal Oversight of Logistics."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-21-2020).]

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Report this Post05-21-2020 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Confidence Gap? Do you really think the President is going to fix this mess by himself? Do you really think it's his fault you might be infected? I'm beginning to think randye is correct in his evaluation of your mental state.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 05-21-2020).]

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Report this Post05-21-2020 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

Confidence Gap? Do you really think the President is going to fix this mess by himself? Do you really think it's his fault you might be infected? I'm beginning to think randye is correct in his evaluation of your mental state.



It isn't just my evaluation.

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I don't need to be reminded that I am not the Poster Boy for perfect mental and emotional well being.



"perfect" ?

Hell, he's not even passable.

He also openly discussed his mental health counseling on this forum.

I'll go find that too.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-21-2020).]

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Report this Post05-21-2020 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Your President's references to the hydroxychloroquine medicine immediately raised two questions in your mind ? Your agenda is very telling.

Your President relayed information he had heard which he thought was credible. Information which a Dumbocrat Congressional member thanked him for, in the Oval Office. It saved her life
.

The President should never have been talking about any conjectured or unproven pharmaceuticals for the treatment or prevention of Covid-19 in the casual and unqualified way that he did, and for him to have used his "bully bulls**t pulpit" to call so much attention to one such pharmaceutical in particular--hydroxychloroquine--was like the work of a compensated actor or endorser in a TV commercial.

Unless that "Dumbocrat" woman of Congress received advice from the President about hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for lupus or a prophylactic that can ward off malaria, she wasn't informed by the President. She was misinformed.

She may have thanked him, thinking that hydroxychloroquine was what saved her from Covid-19, but unless she was part of some clinical trial in that context, there isn't a shred of credible evidence to confirm what is only another anecdotal attribution of hydroxychloroquine's anti-Covid-19 effectiveness and efficacy.

More recently, I became aware of Dr Rick "the whistle blower" Bright's interest in hydroxychloroquine, and New York's governor, Andrew Cuomo (I think) had some ideas about it, as well. Doesn't change the story line, as far as the President and his remarkable offering up of hydroxychloroquine's as a "shiny new(s) object."

I wouldn't think any better of Trump on this subject (or any subject) if the New York Times were to come out in its next edition with a front page banner headline in "moon walk-sized" text ... "PROOF THAT HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE PREVENTS COVID-19..!!!!" It's not like it would me think that Trump had any actual information about it. It would be among the most bizarre coincidences in all of human history, but it wouldn't make me think any better of the man.

The President should eliminate altogether his well known habit of regularly following Fox News personalities like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, and "Fox and Friends"--two male doofuses on a couch, with a high end department store's female mannikin seated in between. They got hydroxychloroquine written all over them.

Some of them, anyway.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-22-2020).]

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Report this Post05-22-2020 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:


The President should never have been talking about......

Trump should eliminate altogether his well known viewing of .......






 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I don't need to be reminded that I am not the Poster Boy for perfect mental and emotional well being.



You're constantly reminding everyone else though Ronald.


PSYCHIATRIC HELP.......GO GET SOME

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-22-2020).]

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Report this Post05-22-2020 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Did your President [Trump] do anything right? Did any of the Dumbocrats offer up a winning idea?


"Biden’s False Claim on Trump’s Response to Coronavirus"
Rem Rieder for FactCheck.Org; April 1, 2020.
 
quote
Former Vice President Joe Biden was wrong when he said that the Trump administration made no effort to get U.S. medical experts into China as the novel coronavirus epidemic spread there early this year.

“When we were talking … early on in this crisis, we said — I said, among others, that, you know, you should get into China, get our experts there, we have the best in the world, get them in so we know what’s actually happening,” Biden, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, said at a CNN virtual town hall on March 27. “There was no effort to do that.”

Except that isn’t the case.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tried to get into China just one week after China reported the outbreak to the World Health Organization on Dec. 31, 2019.

<SNIP>

The complete report is online:
https://www.factcheck.org/2...onse-to-coronavirus/

FactCheck.Org is billed as a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center.

This was published on April 1, but I don't think it's an April Fool's Day gag.


"Let the chips fall where they may."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-22-2020).]

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randye
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