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A New REBEL Flag For America ? by cliffw
Started on: 02-12-2020 02:47 PM
Replies: 60 (848 views)
Last post by: maryjane on 02-19-2020 08:16 AM
MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post02-13-2020 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rinse.

Lessee here. My 1st ex is from Guyana and my kids are mixed.

I have a confederate battle flag tattoo. It's been there for almost 40 years. My kids are in their early 20s.

Do you want to do the supremist math, or do I need to do that for you?
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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-13-2020 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


I will repeat my question, and ask specifically for a response from a person who sees racism in our President's policies.


Seems like a good place to leave this....
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rinselberg
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Report this Post02-13-2020 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

Rinse. Lessee here. My 1st ex is from Guyana and my kids are mixed.

I have a confederate battle flag tattoo. It's been there for almost 40 years. My kids are in their early 20s.

Do you want to do the supremist math, or do I need to do that for you?

Having a Confederate battle flag tattoo is not the same as glorifying the Confederacy.

Not unless you purposely display your tattoo to other people in the kinds of circumstances where other people can not reasonably be expected to understand it as anything other than your public expression of the idea of "Yeah, it's too bad the Confederate states lost the Civil War. If it weren't for that, we wouldn't have to put up with all these people nowadays who are so thin-skinned about the legacy of Slavery and Jim Crow--legacies which I so much like to remind people of, using public spaces, like this city park."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-13-2020).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post02-13-2020 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Having a Confederate battle flag tattoo is not the same as glorifying the Confederacy.

Not unless you purposely display your tattoo to other people in the kinds of circumstances where other people can not reasonably be expected to understand it as anything other than your public expression of the idea of "Yeah, it's too bad the Confederate states lost the Civil War. If it weren't for that, we wouldn't have to put up with all these people nowadays who are so thin-skinned about the legacy of Slavery and Jim Crow--legacies which I so much like to remind people of, using public spaces, like this city park."


But you aren't really talking about how it's presented....you are talking about how it's perceived. For many, the very fact that even a picture of that flag is present is too much, just as a statue is way too much. I have seen people's vehicles in Little Rock Arkansas damaged and threats made for no other reason than the car owner had a confederate flag where their front lic plate would normally be and more often than not, the damage is inflicted on a parked car with no one in it or around it. That is bigotry itself and a bigoted/racist perception with the perpetrator having no idea what the real intent or thought process of the vehicle owner was. It a case of not intent, but that a perception caused by nothing more than that the emblem even exists.
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williegoat
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Report this Post02-13-2020 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageClick Here to Email williegoatSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On September 15, 2001 Balbir Singh Sodhi was killed because he was wearing a turban. The killing had nothing to do with Mr. Sodhi's beliefs, he was a Sikh. Sodhi died because of the killer's beliefs, just as did nearly 3,000 others, four days earlier.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post02-13-2020 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can I build anyone a cry closet?
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rinselberg
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Report this Post02-13-2020 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think we are on the same page about this.

There has been misconduct on both sides (or all sides) of it. About the Confederate flag and other symbols of the Confederacy.

Perhaps a review of my previous message is in order.

There's a difference between (your) having a Confederacy-centric tattoo VS (your) brandishing a Confederacy-centric tattoo as if it were some kind of stage prop at a White Nationalist organized event, where and when you are not actually part of a First Amendment Freedom of Speech and Assembly-protected White Nationalist organized event, but are only in some public place like a city park, at a time when and a place where no such White Nationalist-themed event has been permitted to take place by the responsible municipal authorities. (That should be clear enough.)

I don't know whether this tattoo that was referenced would normally be visible to others in his presence, or not.

There's a gray area or middle ground between the two boundary conditions of it that I really cannot let myself be discussing at this moment.

But my overarching concern in the expressions that I have inserted into this Topic space is not about the issues that attend the existence and display of Confederate symbols like the well known Battle Flag of the Confederate Army.

My concern is about forum members resorting to name calling against other forum members in their expressions on these kinds of topics.

I'm against it.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-13-2020).]

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post02-13-2020 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

...

I'm against it.




No, no you are not.

Where did the non white racist go? Chris? Leg to stand on?

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-13-2020).]

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randye
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Report this Post02-13-2020 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We can always depend on you to piss out a huge puddle of your stupid and mentally ill nonsense and then watch you gleefully wallow in it Ronald

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Having a Confederate battle flag tattoo is not the same as glorifying the Confederacy.

Not unless you purposely display your tattoo to other people in the kinds of circumstances where other people can not reasonably be expected to understand it as anything other than your public expression of the idea of "Yeah, it's too bad the Confederate states lost the Civil War. If it weren't for that, we wouldn't have to put up with all these people nowadays who are so thin-skinned about the legacy of Slavery and Jim Crow--legacies which I so much like to remind people of, using public spaces, like this city park."




 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

There's a difference between (your) having a Confederacy-centric tattoo VS (your) brandishing a Confederacy-centric tattoo as if it were some kind of stage prop at a White Nationalist organized event, where and when you are not actually part of a First Amendment Freedom of Speech and Assembly-protected White Nationalist organized event, but are only in some public place like a city park, at a time when and a place where no such White Nationalist-themed event has been permitted to take place by the responsible municipal authorities. (That should be clear enough.)



LEFTISTS: Not only trying to decide for everyone else what symbols mean but also deciding for everyone else when, where and if they can be displayed.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-13-2020).]

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randye
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Report this Post02-13-2020 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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maryjane
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Report this Post02-13-2020 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
I don't know whether this tattoo that was referenced would normally be visible to others in his presence, or not.


What difference would that make? And why?
It's his body, he can do as he wishes with it.

If someone is offended by it being visible, then it is the viewer that has made the decision to be offended, and before anyone can be offended, they must first make that decision and choice to BE offended. I will always choose not to be, regardless of what I see or read.

Many people know of the six flags that have flown over Texas during it's existence. (Yes, it is a fact that Six Flags Amusement Parks are so named because of the six flags most people think about in Texas history) These 6 flags are today flown at almost every Texas State park, and in front of many official state facilities, tho some also fly 2-3 additional flags as tribute to part of Texas history.
This is the State Park at Presidio La Bahia, the most militarily contested place in Texas.



The Alamo I believe, only flies 8, as the Bahia flag wouldn't be appropriate for that shrine.
There are many people, that want that Confederate flag removed permanently. If more people recognized it for what it is, many more probably would too. It's mere presence, tho so many hundreds of miles away from him ..may even offend Synthesis. That, is his choice.

I have seen this flag many times, and it does not invoke good memories for me personally. I saw and endured great suffering and witnessed and caused much death because of that flag, but I've even seen it flown here in my home state by immigrants. It does not offend me. I choose not to be. Nor do I bear ill will toward those that choose to fly it. The very constitution that I fought for and swore to uphold and protect guarantees them via the 1st amendment the right to fly that flag.

Perhaps I'm just not 'woke' enough?


Nor am I upset with Synthesis and his posts in this thread. That same constitutional right applies to him and everyone else here. We simply 'choose' different paths and different ways to deal with the past.

Do people in this country have a right to be offended?
I've never looked in the Constitution for that specific right but they do have the right to express their unhappiness.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-14-2020).]

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cliffw
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Report this Post02-13-2020 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh my. A thread to raise some humor for me created this buzz saw ? It is not like me to not participate in a topic I start. Sorry peeps, my health and abilities are not up to par. I see I should have followed this one closer but I am having difficulties keeping up with all topics in T/OT. I do have other issues in life I also have to contend with.
I will jump back in the best I can.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:


Synthesis, good to hear from you. I hope things have been well with you, knowing that life, like weather, ebbs and flows. I would also like to wish you a great new year in 2020.
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cliffw
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Report this Post02-13-2020 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:



Synthesis, I just checked (and was right), that you have had a positive from me, … since I don't know when. For a reason I had this :

Charles M. King. search T/OT
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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post02-13-2020 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

.....t a White Nationalist organized event......



Strike 3, your out

I am white

I am a nationalist (as opposed to a globalist)

And those events are called political speeches, specifically conservative -type ones.

Do some research on the Veterans Coalition Party up here. Or the PPC.

As for brandishing... Yeh that's what happens when I wear a white shirt, or my sleeve pulls up reaching for a donut. I'm not too worried about it.

Damn, you gotta try a lot harder than that
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Hudini
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Report this Post02-13-2020 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Synthesis has not been guilty of any name calling in this thread, and he certainly did not begin (Tony Kania's word, implies the very first message from Synthesis in this space) with any name calling.




Is this an omission or a commission on your part?

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

"Everyone who glorifies the Confederacy in 2019 is a white supremacist. It's a very clear message."

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rinselberg
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Report this Post02-13-2020 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
Everyone who glorifies the Confederacy in 2019 is a white supremacist. It's a very clear message.

That is a commission on my part. Very intentional. Forum member Synthesis was not Name Calling with that (in my "book.")

It's not as exact or as "black and white" as (some) scientific discriminations that are made, in the field of (for example) Astrophysics.

There's kind of an "I cannot provide a perfect definition of Name Calling, but I know it when I see it," aspect to it. (That should ring a bell.)

If there's a consistent pattern to it, where it can be predicted for a specific forum member, based on their "priors" (their history of public messaging), that's a strong clue that it's Name Calling.

Another clue is how a specific forum member reacts to being called out for Name Calling. Called out by someone with a proven track record for accuracy in the fast growing profession of Name Calling recognition (like me.)

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-14-2020).]

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post02-13-2020 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When three white men are walking down a street Ronald, do you cross sides because of TDS? Michael Moore does.

Or, are you more this boat?

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-13-2020).]

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blackrams
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Report this Post02-14-2020 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
In all my years here, and of all the thousands of threads I've read here, this is the most stupid one. Period.


In that this is an election year with a seriously divided country, there's significant opportunity for an even more "stupid" one. (Using your term)

Records (ya know) are made to be broken.

Rams
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Report this Post02-19-2020 06:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
This post isn't about Trump/Republicans vs NotTrump/Democrats. This is about the systemic racism and violence I grew up with in a relatively "civilized" area of the "Deep South (tm)".


This post is about anything you want. I never claimed it was about Trump/Republicans vs NotTrump/Democrats. In fact, the erasure and redefining of American history started happening under the previous administration.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
The Rebel Flag is garbage.


Your opinion is noted. That does not make it fact. I suspect there are more than two opinions, with many differing reasons.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
I grew up in one of the worst places, where there was the "wrong" side of the tracks, and the "white" side of the tracks.


Their are many "tracks" in this world. Some economic, some cultural, some religious, some educational. Others. I am surprised people still desire to live "by the tracks". People on each side of the tracks.
I wonder what kind of tracks caused blacks to sell other blacks to slave merchants.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
I watched friends get gunned down because they were black. I lived through racism of my own as a white man by being one of the few who had no issues with someone's skin color in an area where skin color determined your worth.


You haven't convinced me. Some people need killing. Your demeanor in your reply gives me no confidence in your opinion either. In fact, you come off as racist. At least displaying some tendencies. Learned behavior ?

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
Confederacy wasn't just a treasonous rebellion against the United States of America (though it was definitely that). It was a rebellion against freedom, liberty, justice, and equality for all men, women, and children.


100 years out of the treasonous rebellion against the United Kingdom, it was a rebellion by like minded States / Colonies for self freedom. A rebellion against half of their own citizens, as many still wanted to live on their knees, under the thumb of the King's edicts.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
It was a treasonous rebellion to protect the institution of racial enslavement. They hated freedom for all so much that they decided to kill their fellow citizens rather than allow black people to be free.


Again, your opinion is noted. Again, it is not the only opinion and many times, events happen with multiple reasons. You forgot to mention during the Civil War families fought and killed members of their own.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
Those who continue to celebrate the Confederacy, or protect commemorations of their treasonous cause (like the neo-Nazi terrorist that killed Heather Heyer), are showing themselves to be deeply unpatriotic and against the idea of what America is supposed to be.


Again, your opinion is noted. Who elected you top define what the idea of what America is supposed to be. America is a diverse nation with many diverse opinions.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
There is literally nothing more fundamentally anti-American than Confederate sympathy.


Again, your opinion is noted.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
Everyone who glorifies the Confederacy in 2019 is a white supremacist. It's a very clear message.


One thing I notice strikingly familiar is the way you think and that of a racist.


 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
I'm done sitting on the sidelines as I watch hatred destroy the country I love.


No, your not done sitting on the sidelines. In fact, you are sitting on the sidelines right now.

 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:
Stop the ****ing name-calling. I am not a "lib-tard" or a "lefty" or any other derogatory name you want to stick to me. I am not some name. I am a living, breathing, feeling, human being who doesn't give a **** anymore about who you support or what party you are in. To support and idolize something like the Confederacy, the Confederate flag, or the people who support these, is to support the ideals they represent.


Let's see if you can tell the truth.
I have not called you one name, nor accused you of anything. You already seem to have quit responding, allowing the status quo to continue. Which is one thing which has allowed "racism" to continue.


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cliffw
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Report this Post02-19-2020 06:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I forgot.
Synthesis, how about this racist flag.

Click to show
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maryjane
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Report this Post02-19-2020 08:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Please remove that link Cliff. It led me to an image from a place and time that reminds me bad stuff and people died because of it.

I may need a safe space or cry closet this morning.


Maybe I should do this to atone.....?
https://www.youtube.com/pla...ylXu335JonV5cpJiLX2q

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-19-2020).]

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