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Are you a proud member of the left? by williegoat
Started on: 01-27-2020 12:17 PM
Replies: 110 (1410 views)
Last post by: MidEngineManiac on 02-09-2020 06:44 PM
Jake_Dragon
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Nope, I hate everyone equally
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quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Based on the lack of response to the original question, I am going to draw a couple of conclusions:

1) No one wants to identify with the left.

or

2) Those who do identify with the left do not love America.



I primarily side with the left, but I'm not very political. I have seen how people get treated in this forum for being liberal and I feel that's why your not getting responses back.
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Report this Post01-29-2020 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That and the fact that many have left or otherwise just aren't around any more.
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quote
Originally posted by iced_theater:


I primarily side with the left, but I'm not very political. I have seen how people get treated in this forum for being liberal and I feel that's why your not getting responses back.



It's instructive that despite your "confession" and your allusion to being a potential "victim", you STILL couldn't cite even ONE THING that you love about America.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-29-2020).]

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quote
Originally posted by randye:
It's instructive that despite your "confession" and your allusion to being a potential "victim", you STILL couldn't cite even ONE THING that you love about America.

WHY is that?



Because I didn't want to. I gave him a response on why he wasn't getting any.
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quote
Originally posted by iced_theater:

Because I didn't want to. I gave him a response on why he wasn't getting any.


Thank you for an honest answer.
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williegoat

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quote
Originally posted by iced_theater:

why he wasn't getting any.


Wait....you been talking to my ex wife?
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Report this Post01-30-2020 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Communication is key.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post01-30-2020 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by iced_theater:


I primarily side with the left, but I'm not very political. I have seen how people get treated in this forum for being liberal and I feel that's why your not getting responses back.



Well said.

Edit: Oh yeah, how fairly have the right been treated here?

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-30-2020).]

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Report this Post01-30-2020 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like that the U.S. is a nation where I see news reports like this in newspapers that are well known across the entire country:

 
quote
Counties, cities, states step up on climate as Trump administration steps back

Rebecca Tan for The Washington Post; January 10, 2020.
https://www.washingtonpost....d944ba776_story.html

This is not an attempt to send this Topic into a Climate Change or Global Warming kind of discussion.

What I like about this is an emerging narrative, that there is an activism across the country that motivates various people to want to step out on their own, even in ways that the federal government, as it is currently led, is (or seems to be) kind of unenthusiastic about.

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quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I like that the U.S. is a nation where I see news reports like this in newspapers that are well known across the entire country:

Rebecca Tan for The Washington Post; January 10, 2020.
https://www.washingtonpost....d944ba776_story.html

This is not an attempt to send this Topic into a Climate Change or Global Warming kind of discussion.

What I like about this is an emerging narrative, that there is an activism across the country that motivates various people to want to step out on their own, even in ways that the federal government, as it is currently led, is (or seems to be) kind of unenthusiastic about.

So, you like the fact that we are free to dissent? That we have the rights guaranteed in the first amendment? Do you think there should be restrictions on what some would call "hate speech"? Do you agree with the Constitution as a whole, or do you see the need for change?

edit: Does this mean that you identify with the left?

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-30-2020).]

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quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
So, you like the fact that we are free to dissent? That we have the rights guaranteed in the first amendment? Do you think there should be restrictions on what some would call "hate speech"? Do you agree with the Constitution as a whole, or do you see the need for change?

edit: Does this mean that you identify with the left?

(1) Free to dissent, thumbs up on that.

(2) First Amendment, "ditto."

(3) I wouldn't say, particularly, that there is a need to add to, or to strengthen the laws and practices that already penalize hate speech, as it is recognized by various jurisdictions and levels of government, from the most local (county and municipal), all the way up to the federal level.

(4) Constitution? I think the Electoral College method of electing the President and Vice-President has become a useless and dysfunctional anachronism that should be replaced by Popular vote. It's not strictly necessary to amend the Constitution for that purpose.

(5) When I see people on TV or read "stuff" on the Internet--program anchors, guests or contributors, columnists, elected officials--if I like the "cut of their jib", the odds are that they are openly affiliated with the Democratic Party, or claim a political independence or non-partisanship. A "Republican" or "conservative"... not very often. Although that could happen, on certain topics or in particular contexts. I kind of like Bill Weld.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-30-2020).]

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Report this Post01-30-2020 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

(4) Constitution? I think the Electoral College method of electing the President and Vice-President has become a useless and dysfunctional anachronism that should be replaced by Popular vote.



What is your reply when people say that only inner city dwellers of a few certain cities would then decide the entire countries elections?

Does it raise concern about losing the voice of the diversity of all Americans in future votes? What is the plus side?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-30-2020).]

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First off, thank you for a well considered and relatively succinct response.

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

(2) First Amendment, "ditto."

(3) I wouldn't say, particularly, that there is a need to add to, or to strengthen the laws and practices that already penalize hate speech, as it is recognized by various jurisdictions and levels of government, from the most local (county and municipal), all the way up to the federal level.


I see any law which penalizes speech because it espouses a specific point of view as contrary to the intention of the first amendment. Do you believe that it should be illegal to speak or print certain opinions?

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-30-2020).]

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quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

What is your reply when people say that only inner city dwellers of a few certain cities would then decide the entire countries elections?

Does it raise concern about losing the voice of the diversity of all Americans in future votes? What is the plus side?

I question whether that idea, that inner city dwellers of a few (major) cities, would be an overriding or single dominant factor in the elections of POTUS and VP by popular vote.

A lot of people live in suburbs.

That could take this into an examination of demographics and census or census-like data.

I think that the way that the U.S. Senate is designed, with two Senators from each of the 50 states, from the least populated state (?) to the most populated state (California), goes far enough in terms of balancing the political influence, at the federal level, between the least populated states and the most populated states, and between geographic areas that are sparsely populated and geographic areas that are densely populated.

I also think that the U.S. House of Representatives has some of that same geographic balancing effect, because of significant differences in the population of Congressional Districts, from state to state, and within the same state. That is more complicated (obviously) than the Senate's architecture of two U.S. Senators from every one of the 50 states. So I can't speak to that, off the top of my head, in any more specific terms.
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quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

First off, thank you for a well considered and relatively succinct response.

I see any law which penalizes speech because it espouses a specific point of view as contrary to the intention of the first amendment. Do you believe that it should be illegal to speak or print certain opinions?

I think it is not an entirely straightforward task, for government to understand and uphold the First Amendment.

We are all familiar with the "Shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater" scenario, where some public speech, under some particular circumstances, would be so dangerous that it could deprive other people of their most basic of all rights--the right to remain alive and physically unharmed.

Speech that is determined by law as a criminal activity of "incitement."

What various municipalities or states adhere to, and allow, in terms of public assemblies and demonstrations, and the counter-demonstrations that often emerge in opposition. Where and when groups are allowed to assemble. Whether there has to be a distance on the ground of separation (100 feet; for example) between groups and counter-groups, and how that is specified and enforced.

I don't see how the First Amendment's simply worded guarantee of Freedom of Speech can ever be sufficient, in and of itself, for the governance of any large sovereignty like the United States.

There are always Details, and always, a Devil.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-30-2020).]

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quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

That's part of what had me confused, is the "registered D" thing old and not relevant to you today? Maybe like above, do you vote based on major issues that are important to you regardless of party affiliation?



This is how it was for me. Granted, I was younger, but if you look up my name in the Virginia voter database, I'd come up as a registered Democrat... though, I've not voted in Virginia (can't obviously) since I left in the 1990s. But I've been a registered Republican in Florida, and even then, there were many Democrats I voted for.

I voted for Bill Nelson (Senate) twice, and I'd voted for Ron Klein (House) a couple of times, mostly because the Republicans they'd put up were usually pretty corrupt. After Obamacare, I stopped voting for Nelson, and voted for whoever was running against him. And once LtCol (Ret) Allen West was running, I immediately voted for him, who ended up replacing Ron Klein.

What's interesting about my record is that when I was in Florida, I would routinely get Republicans and Democrats coming to my door to solicit for my vote. Particularly during the race with Ron Klein against Allen West. One phone call I remember was a guy asking for donations for Ron Klein, and when I told him politely I wouldn't be voting for him in the next election, he started to challenge me. We got into a debate (he started yelling), and he asked me...

"What have the Republicans ever done for you?"

… it was at that point I realized I personally had a clear fundamental difference in belief system to today's changing Democrat party. I was raised under the ideology of, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country..." and I came to realize that Democrats vote based on how they can personally benefit as individuals. It was a defining moment for me, and I told the guy... "I don't vote for what I can personally get out of it, I vote for who will make the country the most successful in the world."

I will always be able to succeed, because I have the attitude that I can. My belief system is that if you provide opportunity... the able-bodied person will seek it. If they don't that's their own problem, and they certainly aren't deserving of it if they're not willing to put in the effort.
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quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I think it is not an entirely straightforward task, for government to understand and uphold the First Amendment.

We are all familiar with the "Shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater" scenario, where some public speech, under some particular circumstances, would be so dangerous that it could deprive other people of their most basic of all rights--the right to remain alive and physically unharmed.

Speech that is determined by law as a criminal activity of "incitement."

What various municipalities or states adhere to, and allow, in terms of public assemblies and demonstrations, and the counter-demonstrations that often emerge in opposition. Where and when groups are allowed to assemble. Whether there has to be a distance on the ground of separation (100 feet; for example) between groups and counter-groups, and how that is specified and enforced.

I don't see how the First Amendment's simply worded guarantee of Freedom of Speech can ever be sufficient, in and of itself, for the governance of any large sovereignty like the United States.

There are always Details, and always, a Devil.


I see a world of difference, a clear delineation between public endangerment and hate speech.

The physical separation of differing groups protects the first amendment rights of those who wish to peaceably assemble, against those who have shown a propensity to violently oppose our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

The constitution says what it says. Nothing more, nothing less. It is brilliantly simple and wholly adequate. The "devil" is not in the constitution.
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quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
I see a world of difference, a clear delineation between public endangerment and hate speech.

The physical separation of differing groups protects the first amendment rights of those who wish to peaceably assemble, against those who have shown a propensity to violently oppose our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

The constitution says what it says. Nothing more, nothing less. It is brilliantly simple and wholly adequate. The "devil" is not in the constitution.

Is there an example that you would like to present, to put some "flesh" on these seemingly theoretical and abstract "bones" of discussion?

Something drawn from current or recent events? Something from your own life?

It seems to me, that in theory, there should be no legal stricture that would prevent a group--let me call it the "New American Reich"--from seeking and receiving permission from the municipality of Phoenix to assemble in a public park, in daylight, on any day of the week, attired in authentic looking World War Two replica Nazi uniforms and regalia, to conduct a public reading from an English language translation of Mein Kampf.

Maybe you have some other case or scenario that you would suggest would be more illuminating to consider?

It happens that I have been watching the first and second seasons of "The Man in the High Castle." Never saw any of it before. It's very engaging, and probably, a tour de force of made for TV fictional screenwriting, casting, directing and production. I guess that's why I went with that idea.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-31-2020).]

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Report this Post01-31-2020 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I question whether that idea, that inner city dwellers of a few (major) cities, would be an overriding or single dominant factor in the elections of POTUS and VP by popular vote.

A lot of people live in suburbs.
...


I don't see a doubt that they would. I'm not only talking about cities or suburbs, major nor not.

From 2:40 min mark, what are your thoughts?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6s7jB6-GoU

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-31-2020).]

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Report this Post01-31-2020 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I returned from overseas the 1st time in 1971 , we departing the plane at Travis AFB were separated from the peaceniks so they couldn't reach us/we couldn't reach them....for their own protection I assume. Anyone can say anything they want to me, but hell cometh if you spit on or lay hands on me.
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There are, from time to time, calls from some (who I would consider leftists) to restrict speech that they may consider offensive. I don't think any of these proposal would withstand a constitutional challenge.

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Is there an example that you would like to present, to put some "flesh" on these seemingly theoretical and abstract "bones" of discussion?


I considered asking a similar question of you, after you posted this:
 
quote
(3) I wouldn't say, particularly, that there is a need to add to, or to strengthen the laws and practices that already penalize hate speech, as it is recognized by various jurisdictions and levels of government, from the most local (county and municipal), all the way up to the federal level.

Regarding the separation of opposing groups, there was an incident in Phoenix in 2017 where leftist protesters waited outside a Trump rally and attacked the attendees as they exited the auditorium. The story can be found online. It made news around the world. There are other stories like this one, but separation is a subject which you first suggested, here:
 
quote
What various municipalities or states adhere to, and allow, in terms of public assemblies and demonstrations, and the counter-demonstrations that often emerge in opposition. Where and when groups are allowed to assemble. Whether there has to be a distance on the ground of separation (100 feet; for example) between groups and counter-groups, and how that is specified and enforced.

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quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
(snip)

I think that the way that the U.S. Senate is designed, with two Senators from each of the 50 states, from the least populated state (?) to the most populated state (California), goes far enough in terms of balancing the political influence, at the federal level, between the least populated states and the most populated states, and between geographic areas that are sparsely populated and geographic areas that are densely populated.

I also think that the U.S. House of Representatives has some of that same geographic balancing effect, because of significant differences in the population of Congressional Districts, from state to state, and within the same state. That is more complicated (obviously) than the Senate's architecture of two U.S. Senators from every one of the 50 states. So I can't speak to that, off the top of my head, in any more specific terms.


Thank you for highlighting the very reason we have an Electoral College - we are a representative republic when it comes to the Federal government.
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Report this Post01-31-2020 02:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since we have states, we really cant just have a popular vote. Also within those states we have counties.
If there were no electoral college, only a few counties in the entire country would decide the election.
I'm curious how any of you see this as not happening if there were no electoral college.



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quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

(snip)........it could deprive other people of their most basic of all rights--the right to remain alive and physically unharmed.
(snip)



And again my thanks, this time for pointing out the underlying logic of the Second Amendment.

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quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

It seems to me, that in theory, there should be no legal stricture that would prevent a group--let me call it the "New American Reich"--from seeking and receiving permission from the municipality of Phoenix to assemble in a public park, in daylight, on any day of the week, attired in authentic looking World War Two replica Nazi uniforms and regalia, to conduct a public reading from an English language translation of Mein Kampf.


That sounds a lot like the infamous "Skokie march": https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...v._Village_of_Skokie

The ACLU stood on the side of the NAZI and the Supreme Court upheld their rights, even though the National Socialist Party was (at that time) almost universally despised.



That was only just a little more than a generation ago. How quickly we forget.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-31-2020).]

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Report this Post01-31-2020 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As it happened Willie: (And YOU Were There..)

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quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

One phone call I remember was a guy asking for donations for Ron Klein, and when I told him politely I wouldn't be voting for him in the next election, he started to challenge me. We got into a debate (he started yelling), and he asked me...

"What have the Republicans ever done for you?"

… it was at that point I realized I personally had a clear fundamental difference in belief system to today's changing Democrat party. I was raised under the ideology of, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country..." and I came to realize that Democrats vote based on how they can personally benefit as individuals. It was a defining moment for me...



Todd, you admired the ideology put forth by a famous Democratic US President... yet your "defining moment" to jump ship was triggered by some nobody who was casting for political donations?




I'm old enough to have watched the original broadcast of this speech... which means I also unfortunately witnessed the newscasts from Dallas.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Todd, you admired the ideology put forth by a famous Democratic US President... yet your "defining moment" to jump ship was triggered by some nobody who was casting for political donations?

I'm old enough to have watched the original broadcast of this speech... which means I also unfortunately witnessed the newscasts from Dallas.



Patrick, the video is blocked from the network I'm on, but I'll take a look at it when I get home.

I respect you, I really do think you're a great guy... I mean that, so nothing I say is with any intention of upsetting you.


As I think I'd mentioned before... we are all raised a certain way, and we are a product of our influences in life. I think in large part, my conservative leanings are as a result of my parents being conservative. The fact that I'm Catholic is most certainly because my parents were Catholic (South American Hispanic on my mom's side, and Roman-Catholic on my dad's side who is Dutch). I have friends of varying political leanings, and they are all generally political based on how their parents raised them. One of my Cuban friends is pretty moderate, I'd say he's the typical independent we all hear about, mostly because he has no interest in following anything and votes based on how whatever websites tell him his vote correlates with. But he had very little political influence growing up... as did I largely. My parents taught me right from wrong, but politics really just never came up. With my dad being an immigrant and my mom having been nationalized... and both of them having come here as young adults / teens in the 60s, they were SUPER patriotic. I don't even know who my parents voted for back in the 60s when they could, but my assumption is they probably voted Democrat too.

Never the less... my parents never talked about politics. It just wasn't a thing for them, so I had no real guidance or influence when I voted, other than my teacher telling me I should vote for Bill Clinton, which I did. I wasn't unhappy with my decision, and not sure I am now either. I made the decisions I did... no regrets.

But the Democrat party has shifted considerably... I mean, to a level that's unrecognizable from what it used to be 20 years ago. It hasn't improved either.

What I personally, and truly see from my vantage point is:

1 - Democrats are incensed with the idea of gaining power that they will stop at nothing.
2 - Socialism and a rise of support for Communism among our youth.
3 - Indoctrination of Socialism and anti-Nationalist ideologies in our schools, colleges, and media
4 - Growing of the welfare state for the SOLE PURPOSE of buying votes
5 - The belief that the United States isn't exceptional, and is... "just like everyone else."
6 - Supporting vast illegal immigration for the sole purpose of destroying our economic system and gaining majority favoritism for the party
7 - The desire to reduce America's influence in this world.
8 - I could go on, but you get the gist...


When I was younger... a teenager really, when I first started learning about things. The Democrat party in large part stood for exactly what President Trump stands for right now. If you take away the "mean language" and antics... you basically have Bill Clinton. The Democrats of the 90s and early 2000s generally felt the same way that Republicans did about the United States... they were proud. They also believed the United States was the greatest country in the world. They also believed immigration was something that needed to be controlled because in large part, we needed to be able to take care of ourselves first before we were prepared to take care of others. The difference between the Republicans and the Democrats on the surface were not hugely different. Democrats believed service unions could help engage corporations to make business more equitable, while Republicans generally believed a business needed to be dynamic and couldn't be held down by union agreements. There was also the debate on taxes, in which the two were not necessarily at antithetical odds. Kennedy for example, cut corporate and personal income taxes more than any Republican president has ever.

But, you get my gist.

The Democrat party has become extremely radical. I believe many of the sentiments they believe today always existed, but they were muted and they were very much insignificant factions of the Democrat party. These factions though have been given significant voice, and are now a massive part of the party. Socialism is 100% on the rise, and every bit of fact is in my favor on how horrific it is to a country's economy.

So when you say, "your "defining moment" to jump ship was triggered by some nobody who was casting for political donations?" … the defining moment for me was the realization that in fact, this is how the left actually feels today.

When I vote, it's not for personal gain, it absolutely is not. I vote because I want the United States to continue to succeed as the most economically powerful country in the world... 100% completely regardless of whether or not I positively or negatively benefit. I control my own life, and I can shift and adjust. So, I'm sorry, but this is absolutely 100% how I feel. I would without question sacrifice myself for my country if it was truly needed.

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quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

So, I'm sorry, but this is absolutely 100% how I feel.



NEVER apologize for your carefully considered and rationally held beliefs........

.....especially when you're 100% correct.


It's instructive to note that this thread has been up for 4 days now and has had well over 860 views and yet not one Leftist has stepped up and unambiguously and unreservedly stated "I love America"........NOT ONE

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-31-2020).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post01-31-2020 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I respect you, I really do think you're a great guy... I mean that, so nothing I say is with any intention of upsetting you.


Todd, we've had enough discussions on the forum and in PMs over the years to have a pretty good idea of what each other are like. I believe you're a nice enough fella, I enjoy discussing non-political topics with you ... but I've always found your political views to be rather extreme. Add to this your unrelenting enthusiasm in discussing them... and I learned years ago to just leave well enough alone. Yes, I did ask for clarification in my previous post. I was genuinely perplexed by your comment, and I appreciate your response.

 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I would without question sacrifice myself for my country if it was truly needed.


"...if it was truly needed ." That's a tough call. Who would you trust to make it for you? As we get older, it probably becomes a little more difficult to be convinced to go die on some foreign soil... but we're all different I suppose in our interpretation of what's "needed". I suspect we'd all be far more willing to make the ultimate sacrifice if our home and native land was being invaded. Anyway, we're veering way off the original topic. Apologies to Willie.
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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:Todd, we've had enough discussions on the forum and in PMs over the years to have a pretty good idea of what each other are like. I believe you're a nice enough fella, I enjoy discussing non-political topics with you ... but I've always found your political views to be rather extreme. Add to this your unrelenting enthusiasm in discussing them... and I learned years ago to just leave well enough alone. Yes, I did ask for clarification in my previous post. I was genuinely perplexed by your comment, and I appreciate your response.


I don't think my views are extreme at all... as a matter of fact, I'm quite moderate. Most of my friends are Democrats, my wife is Jewish, my parents come from different continents, half my family is gay, and my views are varied. But there's the thing... 15-20 years ago, the Democrats and Republicans ultimately had the same goals... specifically, we both wanted the same result, we just had different ideas about how to achieve these goals. Now, that's not the case anymore. A sizable chunk of the Democrat party wants nothing to do with the United States, and quite frankly, would prefer to see it collapse and completely remade into an unrecognizable country. I'm not ok with that.


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Who would you trust to make it for you?


Who says I wouldn't be making that choice myself? No one wants to die, I'm just saying that if the situation presented itself, and I knew my sacrifice would save other lives or it was imperative to the success of this nation, I wouldn't hesitate.

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Report this Post02-02-2020 07:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are many here on this Forum, in your neighborhood, your county and your state that feel the same way about self sacrifice for the protection of family and nation.

Those that don't, do not deserve either.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post02-02-2020 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Todd has "extreme views"?

One of the most solid of members. His "willing to discuss" confuses some. I state that the problem is not his, but yours.

If you cannot handle politics in a room, then go to another faqing room. The constant crying is damaging the drywall here.

I am still waiting for a member of the left to even give an answer to the initial question, or any of the thousands of questions beforehand that THEY rarely answer. Listen, I do not have a drag queen reading to attend today, so I have a moment to hear you whacko mental patients out.

Enjoy your day. I will not be the cause of your distress. DO NOT be the cause of OURS.
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quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

If you cannot handle politics in a room, then go to another faqing room. The constant crying is damaging the drywall here.

I am still waiting for a member of the left to even give an answer to the initial question, or any of the thousands of questions beforehand that THEY rarely answer. Listen, I do not have a drag queen reading to attend today, so I have a moment to hear you whacko mental patients out.

Enjoy your day. I will not be the cause of your distress. DO NOT be the cause of OURS.


That's funny, probably 95% of the political posts here are from republicans so if there is any constant crying, it's being done by said republicans. You even admit that from the "thousands of questions beforehand that THEY rarely answer."

E.Furgal even went after Williegoat in the superbowl thread because he might watch it.
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Report this Post02-02-2020 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
iced_theater, thank you for joining the conversation.

If you lurk here much, you may have noticed that people will state an opinion and when questioned about the reasoning used to form the opinion, do not respond.
This happens from folks on both sides of what ever the issue, but its noticeable that the frequency of responses differs, depending on viewpoint.

This may be due to what information sources are viewed, views of peers, age, type of education or area of the country.

It does get rough and tumble, but politics has always been that way, long before our country was founded. Its the nature of our species.

I feel that one of the great strengths of our nation is the ability to speak freely, without fear of retribution from government. But along with that right comes the responsibility to think through a topic before opining. Thinking, using knowledge and logic, is the basis of meaningful and productive communication.

Many people base opinions on emotion, rather than knowledge and logic, and are unable or unwilling to argue their point. Its my belief that this weakens our society and causes unhealthy division, rather than the strengthening division of arguing opposing views based on knowledge, logic and reason.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-02-2020).]

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Monkeyman
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Report this Post02-02-2020 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


There is very good historical and cultural reason why we refer to the right as being both correct and as a direction opposite to the left.

•Wisdom is to the right; foolishness is to the left ◦

Ecclesiastes 10:2, "A wise man’s heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man’s heart directs him toward the left."

............


Matthew 25:33, 41, "and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 41 Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."

.........



Two points, please. First, the Bible isn't partisan. God isn't a democrat or republican. Second, within the last century, the parties switched. The Democrats were the conservatives and the Republicans were the liberals.
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Report this Post02-02-2020 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by iced_theater:

Click to show



I am not your enemy. If you want to know where I stand, I ALWAYS will answer. Those on the left rarely do. I believe that you misunderstood my written words. Liberals RARELY answer questions posted towards them. RARELY do THEY follow directions. I admitted nothing, yet your assumption clouded facts?

Come on now, you are using Eric as a gauge? Bwahaha! You got us. Damn Republicans. Bwahaha!

Edit: Thank you for commenting. Incorrectly, but thank you.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-02-2020).]

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Report this Post02-02-2020 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Monkeyman:


Two points, please. First, the Bible isn't partisan. God isn't a democrat or republican. Second, within the last century, the parties switched. The Democrats were the conservatives and the Republicans were the liberals.


Sorry, but not buying the 'switched sides' statement, unless you are referencing 'based on accepted norms of the day'.

The switched sides argument is Leftist b/s propaganda.

Slavery was an accepted norm. Republicans rejected the premise that a human could be owned by another human.
Jim Crow was entirely an effort by the former slavers to keep the freed slaves as second class citizens. Republicans rejected their premise.

You need to bone up on history.
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quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

iced_theater, thank you for joining the conversation.

If you lurk here much, you may have noticed that people will state an opinion and when questioned about the reasoning used to form the opinion, do not respond.
This happens from folks on both sides of what ever the issue, but its noticeable that the frequency of responses differs, depending on viewpoint.



Prior to the last couple of days, I hadn't been on here in months because I haven't owned a Fiero in years *though I'd like to again* and so I would only look at ToT and it was almost always about politics which I don't normally get involved with and got tired of reading about.
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