It's a Twitter message that is connected with this recent report from the New York Times.
"The Cost of Trump’s Aid Freeze in the Trenches of Ukraine’s War" As President Trump froze military aid to Ukraine and urged it to investigate his rivals, the country was struggling in a bare-bones fight against Russian-backed separatists. Andrew E. Kramer for the New York Times; October 24, 2019. https://www.nytimes.com/201...war-impeachment.html
That was from October 24; this is from Monday.
"Ukraine Expects U.S. Military Aid to Keep Flowing Despite Trump Impeachment Battle" Matthias Williams and Sergey Karazy for Reuters; November 11, 2019. https://www.reuters.com/art...battle-idUSKBN1XL1F5
Nina Jankowicz , a fellow (but not a dude) at the Wilson Center in Washington, just opined in the Washington Post.
I didn't come up with this as a way to "bash" President Trump.
As many times as the Javelin anti-tank missiles have been part of recent media reports, this is the first indication to me that the Javelin sale has "strings" of this kind, attached to it.
So... surprised. And wondering what a more complete report about this would reveal. But it's not at the very top of my list of possible Internet searches for today.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-15-2019).]
I didn't come up with this as a way to "bash" President Trump.
For a closed mind, a threat to that minds perception IS a “bash”. The truth is an inconvenient troublemaker.
It’s just too scary to not believe one has all the answers with no room for intellectual evolution, in keeping with the ever-fluid nature of our continuing journey into our future.
Yea, like many here didn’t do when President Obama was President. The shortness of memory (or character?) here is amazing.
That would be because there are different idiologies within this Forum. We arent going to agree on politics, and we shouldn't. I didn't like Obama's policies, didn't know the man. I like DJT's policies, don't know the man.
Many, if not most, of the 'attacks' on DJT are centered around the man, not the policies he espouses.
For a closed mind, a threat to that minds perception IS a “bash”. The truth is an inconvenient troublemaker.
It’s just too scary to not believe one has all the answers with no room for intellectual evolution, in keeping with the ever-fluid nature of our continuing journey into our future.
Some version of the truth anyway.
"intellectual evolution".. Sounds so grand and impressive but is meaningless in the real world unless one is using it as a not-at-all-subtle way to infer that those who support one side or another is less intelligent simply because they disagree with the other side.
The way I understand it, Ukraine was not told that they could not use the missiles and launchers, only that the the missiles were not to be stored on the battle field. There has been concern in the past that the US arms could fall into Russian hands.
I have not been able to find any "official" comment to clarify any of this, so I believe all discussion is based on hearsay and speculation.
Russians have their own version of javelin that is quite good, so I doubt that loss to Russia was the issue. Russia has exported their kornets and newer versions all over the world. The newer versions are like Javelin..self tracking/fire and forget. Older ones need laser designators. More of an issue (I would think) would be loss to rebel or splinter groups that are outside control of any govt.
The Javelin's the key! Fire the Javelin!
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-15-2019).]
Originally posted by Tony Kania: Mmm, another tasty anti-President thread. Insanity apparent.
The three media reports that come after the Twitter message (image of a Twitter message) are just the three that I hit on when I made a small effort to discover more about the Twitter message and what was behind the words "Worth noting that the Javelins Trump provided were given on condition that they NOT actually be used in the war."
So I had the reports. They did not further inform me about whether there were restrictions or what kind of restrictions expected of the Ukraine, on the Javelins.
I think it's well for anyone, including a "Tony Kania", to be aware of the entire spectrum of opinions that are finding expression in the MWL (Media Writ Large.)
Awareness can be as simple and painless as reading just the banner or headline above a media report, as I provided for each of the three reports. It doesn't have to extend to using the "links" and looking at the entirety of any one of these reports.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-15-2019).]
Awareness can be as simple and painless as reading just the banner or headline above a media report
Almost always an extremely misleading and poor substitute for actually researching any subject, especially political news.
Even 'everyday' the little headlines are more often clickbait than anything else and the articles rarely relate anything substanitive in regards to whatthe headline said.
We frequently see the same thing here in OT in regards to thread titles versus what the body of the new threads actually contain. Title (headline) = sensational while body = fluff/ and rhetoric.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-15-2019).]
So, to tie this in to the impeachment hearings; Ukraine did not agree to investigate Biden (or anyone else, for that matter), yet we have given them defensive aid before and after the "infamous phone conversation".
Can someone who believes that the impeachment hearings are a good use of our time and money tell me of what crime the president is accused?
I didn't come up with this as a way to "bash" President Trump.
YES YOU DID
......
Notably, at NO POINT did Mentally ill Ronald stop and ponder what use anti-tank missiles are if they are not used in combat (war), and then question and investigate the obviously ridiculous claim.
Also notable is the fact that EACH of Mentally ill Ronald's articles from Twatter and MSLSD and the NYT all claim that "President Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine", an allegation that has not been proven.
THIS is the sludge that congeals in the foul smelling grease trap that serves as Mentally ill Ronald's diseased mind.
Beyond just the usual example of Ronald's diseased brain, this is also the sort of twisted reasoning that is endemic with the Left.
Yeah, that's my point. Bribery requires an exchange of something of value for a specific service, action, etc. Quid Pro Quo can describe bribery, but it can also describe the purchase of a six-pack at the CirkleK.
The item of value (money, weaponry) was given and nothing other than good will and a thorn in the side of the Ruskies was returned. It sounds like foreign policy to me.
We (USA) always have an ulterior motive when providing foreign aid, but in this case, there was no crime. It's not like we left pallets of cash on the airstrip in the middle of the night or sold our uranium rights.
The way I understand it, Ukraine was not told that they could not use the missiles and launchers, only that the the missiles were not to be stored on the battle field. There has been concern in the past that the US arms could fall into Russian hands.
I have not been able to find any "official" comment to clarify any of this, so I believe all discussion is based on hearsay and speculation.
It's not hearsay or speculation.
It's just garden variety bullshit.
The FGM-148 has been in use for 23 YEARS.
They are in use with more than 2 dozen foreign countries.
More than 6,000 of them have been fired in combat.
The Russians know all about it and have had their own version for many years.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-15-2019).]
Originally posted by rinselberg: As many times as the Javelin anti-tank missiles have been part of recent media reports, this is the first indication to me that the Javelin sale has "strings" of this kind, attached to it.
So... surprised.
I am not surprised that you are surprised, given your news intelligence sources. Many of our military assets we sell are not fully equipped as our "loaded" models. All of them also have strings and I suspect US military oversight to some degrees.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg: The three media reports that come after the Twitter message (image of a Twitter message) are just the three that I hit on when I made a small effort to discover more about the Twitter message and what was behind the words "Worth noting that the Javelins Trump provided were given on condition that they NOT actually be used in the war."
Perhaps you are not aware of the mass deceptions used in WW II. The most famous being just before the D Day invasion of Europe (France). There were a multitude of inflatable tanks, empty tents, many "camp fires" suggesting troop congregation which were only maintained by minimal troops shuffling around tending to them, inflatable ships/boats and planes if I am not mistaken.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg: Awareness can be as simple and painless as reading just the banner or headline above a media report, as I provided for each of the three reports. It doesn't have to extend to using the "links" and looking at the entirety of any one of these reports.
Next you will be telling us to believe campaign promises, .
and rhetoric.
