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Is The F-35 Worth $115 Million? by Boondawg
Started on: 10-14-2019 03:41 PM
Replies: 20 (348 views)
Last post by: 82-T/A [At Work] on 10-16-2019 11:42 PM
Boondawg
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Report this Post10-14-2019 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very informitive:



P.S. The windows that enclose the sensor-suite are made of sapphire, feeding information into the pilots $400,000 helmet.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 10-14-2019).]

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Report this Post10-14-2019 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Worth it ? Let you know after I try one on. 😋
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Report this Post10-14-2019 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I call it a bargain.
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Report this Post10-14-2019 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FriendGregorySend a Private Message to FriendGregoryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I am sending your money. See, I think like the government!
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Report this Post10-14-2019 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Irish socialist commentator expresses bewilderment why American, free market, capitalist, defense companies don't "vertically integrate their companies together" and then ends his video by NOT coming to any conclusion or answer to the question posed by his own video.

As someone else observed, morons abound.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post10-14-2019 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:

P.S. The windows that enclose the sensor-suite are made of sapphire, feeding information into the pilots $400,000 helmet.




Although to someone who wouldn't know the difference, this may sound like an exorbitant and outrageous thing to do.


Long Story Warning:
----------------------------
Recently, my dad gave me his old 1963 Swiss Omega SeaMaster Automatic, it's an extremely rare and very expensive watch. My dad got it from his parents (who were very wealthy) in the Netherlands when he turned 21. My grandfather told my dad, you're on your own son... you need to make your own way (in Dutch, of course). My dad came to the United States as an immigrant and became a US citizen. He came to this country with $500 bucks in his pocket, and moved in with three roommates in an apartment in NY above the apartment my mom stayed in (who also had 3 roommates), that's where they met. He worked his ass off... starting off as a maid at a hotel, then working his way to front desk / receptions, to working every desk, to eventually becoming General Manager (my earliest memory). Growing up, he was always the big boss... worked his ass off. He managed multiple historic and well-known hotels (so we moved every few years), finally retiring after managing a half-billion dollar resort in Bangkok, Thailand.

Growing up, my dad would come home from work, and immediately change out of his suit and into his "work" clothes and go outside and work in the yard, with the Omega still on his wrist. Planting trees, building a patio, digging ditches. I don't know, he was always working his ass off. One day, when I was visiting my parents, my dad gave me his 1963 Swiss Omega SeaMaster. It wasn't for any special occasion, but he thought I might like it. Since my dad had worn it every day since 1963 all the way through 1998 before it finally stopped keeping time, he said... "It's yours, if you can fix it." By the time I got it, the glass was scraped, and every inch of the band had paint embedded in it, and it was scratched to hell.

Being a child of my dad, who forced me to salute Ronald Reagan every time he came on TV, I learned to do things for myself... (I'm also frugal). So I immediately bought a ton of tools off eBay to fix watches, and taught myself how to fix and restore Swiss watches. I bought a box of 100 Swiss watches on eBay for about $100 bucks, and I began restoring them. I'd carefully take them apart, gear by gear, screw by screw, and spring by spring. I'd lay them out, clean them with denatured alcohol. Having spent about $1 on average per watch, I was able to clean, fix, restore, and re-sell the watches for anywhere from $50 to $500 per watch. The really nice ones I've kept, but there are a couple in that collection that are worth over $3,000 that I bought for $1. If you're bored, you can see them all on my YouTube channel (73vwtodd user name - https://www.youtube.com/cha...uy6E0rIlX7U4fQJraw).

If you're really bored, you can also check out these that I've rebuilt:

1960s Helbros "Automatic" w/ 17 Ruby bearings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5wuqCSX2qU
1940s Cimier w/ "pin-lever" movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-KfWkrMSuw (sorry, I had a cold)
1960s Spartan "Grand Prix" w/ Gold gears, 17 Ruby bearings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9kBV6jMm-0
1960s Swiss Villard (also 17 Jewels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JiMVCKAMZo


Anyway, what's the point about this, other than to brag about my dad and his hard-working American ethics?

I learned through my self-education on fixing Swiss watches that the progression of technology and materials on watches included the "glass." Originally, watch glass (called a "crystal") was made out of acrylic. This lasted for many decades and was the mainstay for nearly all watch brands. Diver watches, which were very expensive for the time, started using "mineral crystal," which is a type of hardened crystal. As time progressed, everyone started replacing acrylic with mineral crystal... and the watch community was happy. As more time went on, experts quickly learned that sapphire, both affordable and easily mined (it's literally scattered across the Middle-East desert in various rocks) could be melted and applied as a coating, or as a flawless piece, as a replacement for the watch face. Nearly all "decent" watches have a sapphire "crystal" protecting the watch hands.

For example, I have a run of the mill Citizen Skyhawk AT on my wrist right now... it has a sapphire crystal on it.


So while you suggest perhaps that the HUD on the plane being made of sapphire is some extravagant expense, it's really quite acceptable, and actually a very good idea. If you've ever been in the military, or you've had the chance to be in military vehicles, you'd know that soft edges are not really a thing. Everything in a plane is rough, hard, and so is everything on the pilot's uniform that's not made of fabric. The flight helmet, if allowed to hit the HUD, would normally scratch this the very first time. But making it out of sapphire totally protects this device, and prevents the military from having to replace it with frequency... thus actually saving money.

Here's a good article on the difference between Acrylic (what most HUDs in cars are made out of), Mineral Crystal, and Sapphire:
https://theoandharris.com/w...one-is-right-for-me/

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 10-15-2019).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post10-15-2019 07:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the answer to the question is "Yes".
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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post10-16-2019 01:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The F35 is FREAKING amazing. It is MUCH more powerful than the F18. At least from what I have seen at the Navy air show. The F18 and the F35 were flying at the show at the same time, but the F35 by far out accelerated the F18. And the F35 was quieter at a cruise but MUCH louder in afterburner as it outaccelerated the F18.
I don't know all the details of the unit, but what they let us see at the show was a thumping of the F18.
I see the Blue Angeles switching over to F35's in the near future.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 10-16-2019).]

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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post10-16-2019 04:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

The F35 is FREAKING amazing. It is MUCH more powerful than the F18. At least from what I have seen at the Navy air show. The F18 and the F35 were flying at the show at the same time, but the F35 by far out accelerated the F18. And the F35 was quieter at a cruise but MUCH louder in afterburner as it outaccelerated the F18.
I don't know all the details of the unit, but what they let us see at the show was a thumping of the F18.
I see the Blue Angeles switching over to F35's in the near future.




The only negative I've heard other than the price tag, is that they are less maneuverable than our older planes. This has a lot to do also with the speed of the plane. The F35 is designed to go faster, and as such is designed in such a way that it can't simply turn on a dime like the F18 Hornets can. In a dog fight, the F18 Hornet would very likely outmaneuver and possibly win in a fight with the F35 if it wasn't for the fact that the F35 didn't have so much better avoidance capabilities. Additionally, because of the speed afforded to the F35, it could simply pull away from the F18, turn around at some point, and fire a missile towards the F18 that it would be unable to shake. That's the real advantage of the F35 is the range, improved guidance, and speed.

It's similar to how say... a vintage WW2 US P-51 Mustang could easily out maneuver an F-18 Hornet. Exact same concept...

Or like how a 1984 2m4 base w/ WS6, 3.33:1 automatic, and the Iron Duke can slightly out-handle a 1987 Fiero GT V6 5-Speed w/ Y99 through a small parking lot. The 84 Fiero 2m4 owner merely has to keep the gas pedal plastered to the floorboard and manage the steering wheel. Not enough power to overpower the suspension, while the V6 has to really manage its power properly in the really sharp turns so it doesn't spin out.

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Report this Post10-16-2019 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dogfights........pretty much a thing of the past. The 1st shootdown of an enemy plane in nearly 20 yrs took place in 2017 over Syria when Lt. Cmdr. Michael Tremel in a US Navy FA18 Superhornet shot down a Russian SU-22 that was bombing coalition ground forces, and even it was at distance of 1/2 mile using AIM-120 a missile. He 1st attempted to use an advanced AIM9X Sidewinder but missed.
https://dailycaller.com/201...ir-kill-in-18-years/

Prior to that, The last time a U.S. pilot shot down a manned enemy aircraft was on May 4, 1999, when Lt. Col. Michael H. Geczy of the 78th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron downed a Serbian Mig-29 over Bosnia also using an AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile at a distance.

(Admittedly, 1/2 mile of separation in the sky is not much but close-in traditional "gun" dogfights (think the fictional Tom Cruisey type stuff) just don't happen any more.)

https://www.popularmechanic...e-aim-9x-sidewinder/


Gunfighter?
Better be damn good...
The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps' AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force's F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It's slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps' F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy's F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.

The GAU-22/A is lighter and more accurate than its predecessor, but with a reduced rate of fire of 3,300 rounds per minute. At that rate, the F-35 would be out of ammunition in about four seconds, or one or two bursts of fire.

By comparison, the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the venerable Warthog attack aircraft can hold as many as 1,174 rounds. It's configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-16-2019).]

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Report this Post10-16-2019 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

By comparison, the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the venerable Warthog attack aircraft can hold as many as 1,174 rounds. It's configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.[/i]



And it literally sounds like... "BZZZT!" ...and lots of people on the ground are suddenly dead.
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Boondawg
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Report this Post10-16-2019 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


And it literally sounds like... "BZZZT!" ...and lots of people on the ground are suddenly dead.


Depleted uranium projectiles do the trick every time!
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Report this Post10-16-2019 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've seen the USN version in person, block 1 anyway (Phalanx) .
The rate of fire is not what is so impressive with CIWS..it's the tracking capabilities and the speed in which it switches to a new target once it's computer has calculated a hit on the 1st target, then the barrel and housing swivels/yaws to a new trajectory almost faster than your eyes can follow.

Japan has a new very fast, agile and extremely stealthy jet fighter as well.

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Report this Post10-16-2019 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The way I see it, the cost of not having the best possible defense could be much higher.
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maryjane
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Report this Post10-16-2019 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ya never plan for minimum needs, unless you're planning to fail. You plan for the maximum possible needs.

Everyone talks about the cost of warfighting hardware and software........except those that actually have use it and entrust their life with it.

You're out on the highway with your family, driving along enjoying the view when something goes south and you need an ambulance and hospital right NOW.
A vehicle ambulance is a hour away. Air med is 20 minutes but you know your health insurance won't cover it's cost...
Do you care how much air med costs?
No, you don't because now, it's personal.

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Report this Post10-16-2019 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
The only negative I've heard other than the price tag, is that they are less maneuverable than our older planes. This has a lot to do also with the speed of the plane. The F35 is designed to go faster, and as such is designed in such a way that it can't simply turn on a dime like the F18 Hornets can. In a dog fight, the F18 Hornet would very likely outmaneuver and possibly win in a fight with the F35 if it wasn't for the fact that the F35 didn't have so much better avoidance capabilities. Additionally, because of the speed afforded to the F35, it could simply pull away from the F18, turn around at some point, and fire a missile towards the F18 that it would be unable to shake. That's the real advantage of the F35 is the range, improved guidance, and speed.

It's similar to how say... a vintage WW2 US P-51 Mustang could easily out maneuver an F-18 Hornet. Exact same concept...

Or like how a 1984 2m4 base w/ WS6, 3.33:1 automatic, and the Iron Duke can slightly out-handle a 1987 Fiero GT V6 5-Speed w/ Y99 through a small parking lot. The 84 Fiero 2m4 owner merely has to keep the gas pedal plastered to the floorboard and manage the steering wheel. Not enough power to overpower the suspension, while the V6 has to really manage its power properly in the really sharp turns so it doesn't spin out.



This isn't WW1 or WW2 or even Vietnam.

The idea now is to NOT get into "dog fights" but to instead kill the adversary from BVR without them ever knowing you were there. (THAT is the *why* of stealth technology, joint combat airspace control, AWACS, etc.)

If they get close enough to "dog fight" you then YOU are doing it wrong.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 10-16-2019).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post10-16-2019 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Exactly.
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Report this Post10-16-2019 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One must always keep in mind the mission of the military, to kill or defeat the enemy in the most efficient and effective manner and keep our own losses to a minimum.

Putting a price on what kills the bad guys and keeps ours alive and fighting is a question only one who has never been there would ask.

As someone else once said, if you can read, thank a teacher.
If it's English you read and speak, thank a soldier, sailor, Marine or airman.

------------------
Rams

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but …
after a shooting, the problem is the gun....
Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.

My wife told me to grow up. I told her to get out of my fort!

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Report this Post10-16-2019 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


This isn't WW1 or WW2 or even Vietnam.

The idea now is to NOT get into "dog fights" but to instead kill the adversary from BVR without them ever knowing you were there. (THAT is the *why* of stealth technology, joint combat airspace control, AWACS, etc.)

If they get close enough to "dog fight" you then YOU are doing it wrong.




Yes, but this doesn't make for very good movies!!!
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Report this Post10-16-2019 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


This ain't make believe or game madness, or a movie's glorification..people's lives will be at stake with the performance this aircraft.
Way too many people judge the military's abilities (and deficiencies) on the stupid sheit that they see in movies.
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Report this Post10-16-2019 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

This ain't make believe or game madness, or a movie's glorification..people's lives will be at stake with the performance this aircraft.
Way too many people judge the military's abilities (and deficiencies) on the stupid sheit that they see in movies.


It was a joke...
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