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So you bought that electric car to "save the planet"? Think again by Mickey_Moose
Started on: 04-29-2019 09:28 AM
Replies: 10 (235 views)
Last post by: randye on 04-29-2019 06:58 PM
Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post04-29-2019 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.cesifo-group.de/...08-Elektroautos.html

 
quote

Electric Vehicles are not a Panacea for Climate Change

Apr 17, 2019

Electric vehicles will barely help cut CO2 emissions in Germany over the coming years, as the introduction of electric vehicles does not necessarily lead to a reduction in CO2 emissions from road traffic. Natural gas combustion engines are the ideal technology for transitioning to vehicles powered by hydrogen or “green” methane in the long term.

Considering Germany’s current energy mix and the amount of energy used in battery production, the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher. This has been confirmed by a new study by Christoph Buchal, professor of physics at the University of Cologne; Hans-Dieter Karl, long-standing ifo energy expert; and Hans-Werner Sinn, former ifo president and professor emeritus at Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München. The researchers carried out their detailed calculations using the concrete examples of a modern electric car and a modern diesel vehicle. In addition to CO2 emissions from battery production, they looked at alternative energy sources for electricity in order to calculate the impact electric vehicles have on CO2 emissions. They show that even with today’s technology, total emissions from a combustion engine powered by natural gas are already almost one-third lower than those of a diesel engine. “Over the long term, hydrogen-methane technology offers a further advantage: it allows surplus wind and solar power generated during peaks to be stored, and these surpluses will see a sharp increase as the share of this renewable energy grows,” Professor Buchal explains.

In their study, the authors criticize the fact that EU legislation allows electric vehicles to be included in calculations for fleet emissions with a value of “zero” CO2 emissions, as this suggests that electric vehicles do not generate any such emissions. The reality is that, in addition to the CO2 emissions generated in the production of electric vehicles, almost all EU countries generate significant CO2 emissions from charging the vehicles’ batteries using their national energy production mixes. The authors also take a critical view of the discussion about electric cars in Germany, which centers around battery-operated vehicles when other technologies also offer great potential: hydrogen-powered electric vehicles or vehicles with combustion engines powered by green methane, for instance. “Methane technology is ideal for the transition from natural gas vehicles with conventional engines to engines that will one day run on methane from CO2-free energy sources. This being the case, the German federal government should treat all technologies equally and promote hydrogen and methane solutions as well,” emphasizes Professor Sinn.


Paper published at link above (although in German).
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fierosound
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Report this Post04-29-2019 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's always been said that electric cars merely move the emissions from the tailpipe (of the car) to the smokestack (of the electric generating plant).

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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-29-2019 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And they're concerned about CO² emissions, which really should not be a concern, as CO² is not a major player in "climate change".

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 04-29-2019).]

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-29-2019 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A lie told once needs to be continued.

Does anyone recall when you could knock on a neighbors door and "borrow" a staple? Anyone? Bueller?
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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-29-2019 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Our neighborhood does it all the time.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-29-2019 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Our neighborhood does it all the time.



Thanks. Made me smile.

I am making that kind of a life here.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post04-29-2019 12:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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williegoat
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Report this Post04-29-2019 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Our neighborhood does it all the time.

Apparently, it's still a thing in MEM's neighborhood, too.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-29-2019 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I didnt. I bought it because it was cool to drive. I dont have to buy gas. I care less about the environment. I leave my outside flood lights on all nite, every nite and I usually have at least 3 tvs on 24 hours a day, unless im gone...then just one. Yes tv is on when im sleeping too. When I get my solar panels all on, I wont even be generating 'smokestack' pollution. My RVs have had solar panels for a couple of years, but they do get 5-10 mpg on the road. Im waiting for the Roadster to come out too...then ill have 2.
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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post04-29-2019 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I didnt. I bought it because it was cool to drive. I dont have to buy gas. I care less about the environment. I leave my outside flood lights on all nite, every nite and I usually have at least 3 tvs on 24 hours a day, unless im gone...then just one. Yes tv is on when im sleeping too. When I get my solar panels all on, I wont even be generating 'smokestack' pollution. My RVs have had solar panels for a couple of years, but they do get 5-10 mpg on the road. Im waiting for the Roadster to come out too...then ill have 2.


Solar cells are also by far NOT saving the planet.


The problem of solar panel disposal “will explode with full force in two or three decades and wreck the environment” because it “is a huge amount of waste and they are not easy to recycle.”
“The reality is that there is a problem now, and it’s only going to get larger, expanding as rapidly as the PV industry expanded 10 years ago.”
“Contrary to previous assumptions, pollutants such as lead or carcinogenic cadmium can be almost completely washed out of the fragments of solar modules over a period of several months, for example by rainwater.”

- research scientists with the German Stuttgart Institute for Photovoltaics.

More reading:
https://www.scmp.com/news/c...nvironmental-problem
https://www.solarpowerworld...n-the-united-states/
http://environmentalprogres...a-solar-waste-crisis

Never mind the pollution they create when they are manufacturered:
https://news.nationalgeogra...tainability-ranking/

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 04-29-2019).]

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randye
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Report this Post04-29-2019 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Because lithium mines are just so "green".

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-29-2019).]

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