Panera opened a small chain of restaurants called Panera Cares, where the pricing schedule was basically "to each according their need, from each according to their ability". In other words, Marxism. And SURPRISE, it failed... miserably.
Apparently, the founder of Panera hasn't learned the lesson from that experiment. Instead of acknowledging that it was a dumb idea, he blames it on society.
Instead of acknowledging that it was a dumb idea, he blames it on society.
That seems to be the issue with people who believe in it. They live in a what if world in their heads. What if everyone was good, we all shared, not one ever got mad, there was no such thing as stealing or murder.....
How can they blame society when it doesn't work, yet keep trying, society isn't changing, human nature isn't changing, the system needs to be set up to fit what human nature is.
I always think, "duh".
I even had a guy DURING THE GOV SHUTDOWN no less, say why don't we want the government to provide healthcare for all? Why would anyone not want everyone to have healthcare? Since I knew much more detailed answers would not be accepted or maybe even enter the brain. My response was simply "when the gov gives everyone healthcare what happens when the gov shuts down?" I don't think he even heard it because he said "everyone would have healthcare" ...so I repreated, but what happens when the gov shuts down then? And he paused and said ..."oh". At this point we were leaving anyway and the conversation didn't continue. Which was probably what he preferred... Its all utopia wishes.
They can probably look back at Mao, Stalin, Hitler, and blame it on society. Seriously, its dangerous.
Man, you guys really have no idea what socialism is.
I assume the systems that the Nordic countries have are not socialist because they work?
Well if they are not socialist, then Bernie Sanders is not socialist either. If they are socialist, then a socialist democracy can work. Which one is it?
Man, you guys really have no idea what socialism is.
I assume the systems that the Nordic countries have are not socialist because they work?
Well if they are not socialist, then Bernie Sanders is not socialist either. If they are socialist, then a socialist democracy can work. Which one is it?
Compare for a bit the population, resources and land area of a particular Nordic country to the US. Then consider all the other differences.
Man, you guys really have no idea what socialism is.
I assume the systems that the Nordic countries have are not socialist because they work?
Well if they are not socialist, then Bernie Sanders is not socialist either. If they are socialist, then a socialist democracy can work. Which one is it?
AND, look what those "social" policies have turned the Nordic (and Germany AND the UK) countries into...
In my last job, I worked alongside two Danes and a Norwegian who all left Scandinavia precisely because of creeping socialism and came to America for the freedom and opportunity. They all met here in the USA and two of them, a husband and wife, owned the company.
Anyone who is not convinced of American exceptionalism should spend some time with people like them.
In my last job, I worked alongside two Danes and a Norwegian who all left Scandinavia precisely because of creeping socialism and came to America for the freedom and opportunity. They all met here in the USA and two of them, a husband and wife, owned the company.
Anyone who is not convinced of American exceptionalism should spend some time with people like them.
Anyone brainwashed by anecdotal evidence of America's success should think otherwise.
Looking at happiness, life expectancy, HDI, freedom of the press, education, corruption levels...basically ANY measurable facts about life in nordic countries compared to America it is objectively a better society. And its not just oil rich Norway, Finland is easily included there as well.
Anyone brainwashed by anecdotal evidence of America's success should think otherwise.
Looking at happiness, life expectancy, HDI, freedom of the press, education, corruption levels...basically ANY measurable facts about life in nordic countries compared to America it is objectively a better society. And its not just oil rich Norway, Finland is easily included there as well.
So, that's why so many disenfranchised Americans are fleeing the oppression and poverty of this evil empire and moving to the Utopia of Norway. Have I been unbrainwashed now? By the way, why do you live in this hell hole?
Anyone brainwashed by anecdotal evidence of America's success should think otherwise.
Looking at happiness, life expectancy, HDI, freedom of the press, education, corruption levels...basically ANY measurable facts about life in nordic countries compared to America it is objectively a better society. And its not just oil rich Norway, Finland is easily included there as well.
There are many things I have thought otherwise on, back and forth, look andf think, and after careful examination came back to a proper conclusion.
You are wrong. But then who judges happiness? If youd personally be happier there, just be my guest, go live there.
Did you do my earlier recommended comparisons? Do you see any issues with trying to implement the governing style of Norway in the US?
Anyone brainwashed by anecdotal evidence of America's success should think otherwise.
I have lived in America for over 64 years and thus have been surrounded by evidence of America's success. That preponderance of evidence goes far beyond "anecdotal". The suggestion that the lessons I have learned from the total of my life's experience can be considered "brainwashing" is more than absurd, it is absolutely ludicrous; and considering your relatively shallow life experience demonstrated by your repeated failure to discern the truth from an abundance of available information, I find your assessment insulting.
Just what is the "otherwise" that those like me should think?
And before you start talking "privilege", you have no idea how hard I have worked and the obstacles I have overcome to get to where I am. So, don't even try that crap.
Man, you guys really have no idea what socialism is.
I assume the systems that the Nordic countries have are not socialist because they work?
It seems as though every time the topic of Marxist socialism pops up there is always at least one clueless, chucklehead, leftist with the ideological IQ of a tree stump like you that pipes up with the old fairy tale about how "Scandinavian countries are like, uh, socialist, so like, uh, it shows that socialism works dude".
They aren't, and it doesn't
Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Finland ALL have very robust FREE MARKET CAPITALIST economies.
They can afford the generous social programs they have because they have those strong capitalist economies.
"Treepup" you're a poorly educated young man with some very confused and wrong ideas about the reality of the world around you, especially where it comes to economics and political ideologies.
Like most youngsters, you're also so self-convinced that you know more than anyone else that you can't resist trying to lecture the adults in the room who by and large are far better educated and more experienced than you.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-16-2019).]
Anyone brainwashed by anecdotal evidence of America's success should think otherwise.
Looking at happiness, life expectancy, HDI, freedom of the press, education, corruption levels...basically ANY measurable facts about life in nordic countries compared to America it is objectively a better society. And its not just oil rich Norway, Finland is easily included there as well.
President Reagan never met one of our modern crop of hopelessly indoctrinated young Marxist leftists like this one, otherwise I'm convinced he would have revised the "not that they're ignorant" part of his statement.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-16-2019).]
I hope there is a response to these replies before there are more posts saying the same thing you said here Threedog, as if these replies never happened.
Originally posted by randye: It seems as though every time the topic of Marxist socialism pops up there is always at least one clueless, chucklehead, leftist with the ideological IQ of a tree stump like you that pipes up with the old fairy tale about how "Scandinavian countries are like, uh, socialist, so like, uh, it shows that socialism works dude".
They aren't, and it doesn't
Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Finland ALL have very robust FREE MARKET CAPITALIST economies.
They can afford the generous social programs they have because they have those strong capitalist economies.
"Treepup" you're a poorly educated young man with some very confused and wrong ideas about the reality of the world around you, especially where it comes to economics and political ideologies.
Like most youngsters, you're also so self-convinced that you know more than anyone else that you can't resist trying to lecture the adults in the room who by and large are far better educated and more experienced than you.
So if this is true, if they are not truly socialist. Why do we not implement those same polices?
Also, for everyone trying to use anecdotal evidence to say why America is happier, the facts disagree with you.
I am happy. You are not. Conservatives are generally pretty happy people, they make their own happiness. Leftists seem to always find something that makes them unhappy. If all of the leftists moved to socialist countries, the USA would certainly be the happiest place on earth.
I am happy. You are not. Conservatives are generally pretty happy people, they make their own happiness. Leftists seem to always find something that makes them unhappy. If all of the leftists moved to socialist countries, the USA would certainly be the happiest place on earth.
This is not evidence. These are not facts.
Of course there are happy people in America. However the percentage of people who are happy in America is far lower because our system mistreats so many people that are not you.
You are thinking of this as a "I want to make you unhappy and me happy", no, I want to make everyone happy, educated, and able to work at a living wage.
Also, I am plenty happy living here, I am not happy how much other people are not. I can criticize this country while liking it, there is no harm in that. Just because you don't like some American policies or leaders or reps does not mean you do not like America.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. There will always be a cost and those that will stand in line to take advantage even when its a much shorter task to just work for what you need. But its not something that the few can continue to provide. When you take away an incentive to work, when you take away the choice. Who is going to pay for Socialism? Point them out please.
Please explain how a public servant has made a fortune while denying the same to their constituents will be able to bring this to the US. Its not socialism its slavery.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. There will always be a cost and those that will stand in line to take advantage even when its a much shorter task to just work for what you need. But its not something that the few can continue to provide. When you take away an incentive to work, when you take away the choice. Who is going to pay for Socialism? Point them out please.
Please explain how a public servant has made a fortune while denying the same to their constituents will be able to bring this to the US. Its not socialism its slavery.
Don't be so narrow sighted.
Except this idea that social disadvantages are deserved is a complete and utter myth. Social mobility in this country does not exist in the way you discuss it. Right now, it is simply not possible for the majority of people to make more money than their parents in this country.
Source. Our social mobility is severely lacking. The "incentives" you talk about are true. You need some level of inequality to encourage people to climb the social ladder, but we have hit far too high of levels. The vast majority of Americans are not able to increase their income for many reasons, but mostly because the starting point is so low. These European countries that have these "socialist" policies are actually more free when we look at the data for social mobility.
By cutting taxes completely on the top 1% of the population and cutting social welfare programs we have widened the gap. "Trickle-down economics" did not work and it has not worked.
There is a balance between social welfare and social mobility, and right now we have cut social welfare so badly that social mobility is just not possible. If you want to read up on the reasoning, it is here. There is far too much evidence for a single post on this forum.
[This message has been edited by Threedog (edited 02-19-2019).]
Except this idea that social disadvantages are deserved is a complete and utter myth. Social mobility in this country does not exist in the way you discuss it. Right now, it is simply not possible for the majority of people to make more money than their parents in this country.
Source. Our social mobility is severely lacking. The "incentives" you talk about are true. You need some level of inequality to encourage people to climb the social ladder, but we have hit far too high of levels. The vast majority of Americans are not able to increase their income for many reasons, but mostly because the starting point is so low. These European countries that have these "socialist" policies are actually more free when we look at the data for social mobility.
By cutting taxes completely on the top 1% of the population and cutting social welfare programs we have widened the gap. "Trickle-down economics" did not work and it has not worked.
There is a balance between social welfare and social mobility, and right now we have cut social mobility so badly that social mobility is just not possible. If you want to read up on the reasoning, it is here. There is far too much evidence for a single post on this forum.
You are being indoctrinated into a society that will take everything away from you. When there is nothing to gain then what is the point?
But guess what? We don't have to worry because as much as the few "loud" players spout crap there are more silent majority that will never adapt Socialism. We will not have it forced on us and we are not going to give up our way of life because a few seem to believe its for everyone's best interest. There will come a time when the truth will come out one way or another.
Now if you don't love our country as it is please move to one of those that are currently ran the way you want.
I am happy. You are not. Conservatives are generally pretty happy people, they make their own happiness. Leftists seem to always find something that makes them unhappy. If all of the leftists moved to socialist countries, the USA would certainly be the happiest place on earth.
It is a fact that I am happy. The fact that all of your posts rant about the inability of some Americans to rise above their station is evidence that you are not happy.
quote
Of course there are happy people in America. However the percentage of people who are happy in America is far lower because our system mistreats so many people that are not you.
Who, specifically, are these mistreated Americans?
quote
You are thinking of this as a "I want to make you unhappy and me happy", no, I want to make everyone happy, educated, and able to work at a living wage.
You are wrong, again. I do not want to make anyone unhappy. Not everyone will be happy. That is not my responsibility. Anyone who wants to work can make a decent wage. I have taught, hired and managed many.
quote
Also, I am plenty happy living here,
You constantly demonstrate otherwise. Your own words are the evidence.
quote
I am not happy how much other people are not. I can criticize this country while liking it, there is no harm in that. Just because you don't like some American policies or leaders or reps does not mean you do not like America.
The last two sentences are evidence of the freedom that all Americans enjoy.
Also, I am plenty happy living here, I am not happy how much other people are not. I can criticize this country while liking it, there is no harm in that. Just because you don't like some American policies or leaders or reps does not mean you do not like America.
You dislike it enough to want to take the freedom out of it.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-19-2019).]
Anyone who has not already made a complete mess of his life as a result of violent or drug related crimes can have a decent respectable career. ANYONE. https://www.swifttrans.com/careers/drivers
Except this idea that social disadvantages are deserved is a complete and utter myth. Social mobility in this country does not exist in the way you discuss it. Right now, it is simply not possible for the majority of people to make more money than their parents in this country.
social ladder, ...social mobility... taxes ...social welfare programs ...
Equality of outcome shouldn't be strived for. You cannot make it happen. You should not make it happen.
a useful snippet of an article helps explain my point:
"So what did Jefferson mean when he wrote that, “all men are created equal?” The answer is found in the proceeding phrase, “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.” This is how all persons are created equal, because God created us and gave us intrinsic value that we speak of in terms of ‘rights’ language.
Equality of opportunity more simply describes some of our rights and how we are all equal before the law. This type of equality is not inconsistent with liberty, but “an essential component of liberty.” Friedman notes that if someone is denied a job they are qualified for based on their ethnic background, color or religion, then they are being denied equal opportunity.
Equality of outcome is the problematic view. This is the idea that everybody should literally be equal. There are many problems with this idea.
First of all, ‘fairness’ is not an objective concept when dealing with wealth. One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. Second, the passion behind this idea is that it isn’t fair for some kids to have advantages over others just because of the socioeconomic status of their parents. The focus against those who are advantaged is based on one’s property such as home or business values. However, property can also take the form of talents: musical ability, strength and intelligence. From an ethical standpoint, is there really any difference between the two? Many people resent the inheritance of property like houses and businesses, but don’t resent the inheritance of talents. I wish I could play basketball as well as Kobe Bryant. I’d be a multi-millionaire if I had that type of talent.
But let’s consider where this leads. If we were to really try and equal the outcomes, then less advantaged kids would be given the greatest amount of training and the advantaged kids would be given the least amount of training. That’s fair, right? Not for the advantaged kids. The fact is, life is not fair. It is important to realize how we benefit from things being unfair. I take great pleasure in watching the best of the best play against the best of the best. That’s why we pay money to go to sporting events or watch movies with the best actors."
What do you think?
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-19-2019).]
Its fueling a fire that will burn both side equally as much but in the end it wont be Socialism that rebuilds. When it gets to the point you have nothing left you want to give up you will be all for having walls.
Politically left-leaning respondents are naturally more doubtful about the scale of social mobility, and are more likely to support redistributive government policies, than conservative ones. But Mr Alesina and his colleagues also find that people of different political stripes also respond differently to new information. When given pessimistic information about social mobility, left-wing respondents became even more likely to support economic redistribution. In contrast, right-wing respondents’ support for redistribution did not change. Perhaps, the authors suggest, right-leaning respondents see government as “the cause of the problem, not the solution”.
Threedog, Please enlighten those of us who have not seen the light on just how your economic plan would work so that everybody would be happy. The very concept leads me to believe there would be no unemployed, no low wage jobs for unskilled workers, free education, free wifi nationwide, free medical care, a TV in every living room and a chicken in every pot, almost Utopia.
Please enlighten us on how you're gonna pull this off and not reduce this country to Third World status. Leftist, Progressives/Socialist always have grand ideas how those who have earned less can bennefit by taking from those who have earned more. Go ahead, I am interested in how you're going to do this. Please don't tell me you want to follow the path some other country did that has very little in common with how our economy is set up and runs. Or do you purpose to blow it all up and start over.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-20-2019).]
