I care more about ideas and action with real substance.
Like cow farts and tearing down every building in America and completely rebuilding it.
Like guaranteed jobs, a free house, free education for life, guaranteed income - whether the person "will to work" or not - and free healthy food for every American.
Because ..."She's GREAT"........and because "less than $20 donations" and because FREE STUFF!!!
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-24-2019).]
According to YOUR flawed interpretation, Dustin has donated 3 times for a total $81
According to MY correct interpretation based on the context surrounding the reported data and the convenient inclusion of YTD totals, Dustin has actually donated 8 times for a total of $270.
8 donations has an obvious greater effect on overall average donation than 3.
But where are the missing 5 entries????
They are not there because they did not YET add up to $200. Context.
Therefore it is plain to see, that there are MANY entries not included here, and the average, if it DID include ALL the entries would be far far lower.
You're wrong... I did the homework... get over it.
[This message has been edited by Sundowner (edited 04-24-2019).]
Honestly, I'm exhausted with all the labels and 'ism's ... I don't give a damn about them. I care more about ideas and action with real substance.
Like the policies put in place by the current Administration that have reduced unemployment (across all population segments), increased funding to NATO by the other member states and increased take-home pay to families?
You're almost as ridiculous and juvenile with this stuff as "Threedog".
You're babbling about multiple donations totaling over $200 and making a case AGAINST your dumb "insurgent grassroots" / "less than $20 donor" claim.
If Libby Leftist donates $1,000.00 in $20 individual increments that doesn't magically make her a "small donor".
We get it. YOU want to believe that all the BERN VICTIMS lined up and each chucked a "Jackson" in the can for the cause.
You want to believe that because you want to believe the Marxist propaganda; "little guy", (proletariat) fighting valiantly against the "big guys / corporations (bourgeoisie)
Unfortunately, economics has never been the province of Marxists. That's why the ideology has FAILED everywhere it has been tried for well over a 125 YEARS.
Go "interpret" that.
While you're interpreting that, try to also "interpret" WHERE that "grassroots insurgent", "proletariat vs. bourgeoisie" money actually WENT
Only a miniscule 4.8% of all those Jacksons actually went to any leftist candidate. Far LESS went to actual political campaigning.
The lion's share went right into the pockets of the propaganda ministers and party apparatchiks.
It's been that way for 125 failed years of Marxism.
I have been thinking about this thread for the last couple of days. The irony is thickening.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw: I know the threads are not moving so well. It tis sad. Can we change that by not being us ?
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: What a great excuse for one to treat people anyway they want.
One particular is your use of the word 'excuse'. I am not even butt hurt that you decided to assign it as a motive of mine. I didn't even make an excuse, I asked a question.
The question still stands.
Now let's think about it.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: It is incredibly obvious that the threads here don't progress beyond an echo-chamber these days because of the rabid nature some choose to use when expressing their disagreement with differing ideas & opinions.
First of all, this thread is progressing just fine.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: Let the attacks begin...because that's the real reason most avoid these threads.
Don't believe everything you think, and, don't make any excuses for anybody but yourself.
Some people offend you and you can not participate with the group at large ? What a great excuse for you to go to your safe space and, how did you put it ... ?
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: Granted, a sealed environment with a repetitive dialog is a great way to solidify favored beliefs within oneself, but it comes at the expense of ones intellectual elasticity.
Without the exchange of thoughts & ideas. Better put, without the thoughts of others about what you think, which, is the biggest reason thoughts and ideas are exchanged.
The real reason some don't wish to participate is because of a new word in the Marium-Webster dictionary. They are snowflakes.
As I told Sunnydowner, this is the land of the free and the home of the BRAVE ! Freedom isn't free.
Give it up folks. It is clear. There is no path to victory for President Trump to win a second term.
Looky, Sonnydowner is back, . Sundowner, what is up with all the deflection.
What is so great about the retarded woman, AOC ?
Like Kania The Man said, your not so good at answering questions.
One suggested you are a new member. Here is a tip for you. At the top, and bottom of page is a New Topic button. Talk about anything you feel free and brave enough to.
By the way, I understand busy. I am also too busy to post as often as would like. Cliff Pennock put in a feature which allows us to see our last 20 or so posts. It makes it easy to join back in on a conversation you wish to go back to.
Originally posted by Sundowner: Derangement and hatred exists on both sides, though white Nationalists seem to have cornered the market on the more extreme violence.
What's the name of the other side, and what is a white nationalist, in your definition ?
Nooby, you will really enjoy this OT section if you start out in the shallow end. I don't mean to sound crass, but, defend one thought at a time.
I have mixed it up with many on here, that you would consider my echo chamber, and others, who had very opposing views. Yet, any and all have come to my rescue when I needed off thread topic help
Originally posted by Sundowner: Honestly, I'm exhausted with all the labels and 'ism's ... I don't give a damn about them.
quote
Originally posted by Sundowner: Derangement and hatred exists on both sides, though white Nationalists seem to have cornered the market on the more extreme violence.
You're wrong... I did the homework... get over it.
Venezuela, have you heard? There is some interesting stuff happening today in that beautiful country. Citizens killing the military, the military running over citizens with their APCs. You know, socialism. Not like the loss of a latte' or the whateves? Real socialism just grinding itself into the constitutes of the state.
Liberal deflection coming in 3... 2... 1...
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 04-30-2019).]
Originally posted by Tony Kania: Venezuela, have you heard? There is some interesting stuff happening today in that beautiful country. Citizens killing the military, the military running over citizens with their APCs. You know, socialism. Not like the loss of a latte' or the whateves? Real socialism just grinding itself into the constitutes of the state.
Liberal deflection coming in 3... 2... 1...
I wonder if Sundowner has views on citizens right to bear arms?
This reply is not directed towards anyone in particular, more-so being my general (and what will more than likely be unwelcome) thoughts on this entire discussion.
It's entirely bewildering, how y'all treat each other. This forum's division is, without a doubt in my mind, one of the more depressing discussions I've read in recent memory.
PFF is a forum that I've been a member of for quite a long time, albeit lurking for several of the latter years. When my mother passed she bequeathed her 86 GT to me that I started driving when I was 15. As much as I loved the damn thing it always broke down - wiring harness, EGR, headlights allllll the ****ing time and I still have old scars on my fingers & knuckles from tearing headlight motors out of junkers at Pick-a-Parts. Being a young teenager I didn't have Texas-sized money for a mechanic to repair this boat anchor that I love to death and I only got to enjoy this wonderfully-frustrating vehicle because of PFF. This forum taught me so much about my car and vehicles in general. Christ almighty I can't even say that this forum was just a resource for my car - it was an early resource for a malleable & impressionable kid who had no idea how to talk to adults. Claiming PFF had anything other than a significant impact on myself during my most critical years would be incorrect. My thoughts are that PFF is a wildly freakin' sweet example of American and, more importantly global, engineering and creativity. This community demonstrated this frequently, over and over and over, examples not needed. Y'all enjoy or used to enjoy your cars for similar reasons, and that fondness for the Fiero brought together a ton of bright minds from all over the place. This community produced a lot of value for a lot of people.
As I've grown older my participation in this forum has shrunk significantly; and nowadays 99% of the time is spent lurking instead. Discussions here are harder to participate in, let alone view. Over the past several years, I can't help but feel as if I've seen this forum's base - a majority of you - further and further refine your political views towards radicalism. Disagreements are indistinguishable from petty one-ups on one-another while the disdain for each other slowly became a coziness with hate. This may be misunderstood as a broad criticism when I want it to be interpreted as a general sadness towards this community so please do not misunderstand me. Odds are you'll find this misplaced. Odds also are that you're American, and that in your mind you believe you have the best interests of your country in mind.
Saying that half of the content I read here is abhorrent would be an accurate statement. Saying that the reality of knowing its directed towards one another is demoralizing would be putting it lightly. It downright scares me.
The Russian bear has drawn its claws and have gotten away with it. They are making a fool of us and our allies while we further bicker and in-fight and intensify the incivility towards each other. We're dividing and finding ourselves weaker because of it. We're losing. We're suckers. For every argument you win here you further draw the sand in the line between each other when we should be keeping it together. We're faced with a modern enemy that doesn't play by the rules and given an Administration that doesn't acknowledge the threat but loves to provoke and distinguish our differences. Where is the accountability? Where is the defense? Why is our nationalism misguided? Do you not feel like we're caught with our pants down or is our party loyalty so blindingly strong that we'd rather talk about things like this?
When I was younger PFF positively shaped my understanding of the word 'community'. I presumed that this group was immune from hatred like this but I am now realizing that this was incorrect. This can be seen as naivete depending on who you are I'm sure.
Individually I hope y'all are doing well in your personal lives. I truly want nothing but the best for you and I do not say any of the above with malice towards a certain person in this thread. Just think we're getting a bag drawn over our heads and need to love each other a little more.
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: This reply is not directed towards anyone in particular, more-so being my general (and what will more than likely be unwelcome) thoughts on this entire discussion.
Saying that half of the content I read here is abhorrent would be an accurate statement. Saying that the reality of knowing its directed towards one another is demoralizing would be putting it lightly. It downright scares me.
It's entirely bewildering, how y'all treat each other. This forum's division is, without a doubt in my mind, one of the more depressing discussions I've read in recent memory.
Individually I hope y'all are doing well in your personal lives. I truly want nothing but the best for you and I do not say any of the above with malice towards a certain person in this thread. Just think we're getting a bag drawn over our heads and need to love each other a little more.
Bradley Jay, your thoughts are well put, somewhat eloquent, welcome, and appreciated by me.
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: Christ almighty I can't even say that this forum was just a resource for my car - it was an early resource for a malleable & impressionable kid who had no idea how to talk to adults. Claiming PFF had anything other than a significant impact on myself during my most critical years would be incorrect. My thoughts are that PFF is a wildly freakin' sweet example of American and, more importantly global, engineering and creativity. This community demonstrated this frequently, over and over and over, examples not needed. Y'all enjoy or used to enjoy your cars for similar reasons, and that fondness for the Fiero brought together a ton of bright minds from all over the place. This community produced a lot of value for a lot of people.
This sub forum is still an excellent example of life in America, and much around the world. t is often said "never talk politics or religion at social gatherings", with good reason. It is not for the faint of heart. Disagreements arise, debate happens. Debate is also not for the faint of heart, and many people do not know how to do it correctly. Some people can't debate and some won't. No big deal. Many times in life, on all fronts, people should get over how something was said to grasp what was said. Even if they are not a participant.
Believe me, we do enjoy our Fieros. PFF is a great resource to ensure that we can for years to come, and, still brings together many great minds. Minds which come from very varied backgrounds which share their expertise on just about anything we could ask.
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: When I was younger PFF positively shaped my understanding of the word 'community'. I presumed that this group was immune from hatred like this but I am now realizing that this was incorrect. I just think we're getting a bag drawn over our heads and need to love each other a little more.
There is no hate here. I can pop in to any other sub section and instantly get help, even form some here I debate with that you might think hate each other. Likewise in this off topic forum about anything, including Fiero related. If we were ever on the road and had a mishap, break down, or any other kind of need, all we have to do is pipe up and ask. Someone local will be more than glad to help. Many times, members stop and visit other members, 'in front of the keyboard'. I have spent the night at quite a few. I tell you, that is icing on the cake of membership in this forum. You talk of love. What is that ? Beauty ? It is skin deep. Love, it is the same. Some people love each other, get married, and then are divorced later, some as soon as not much later. Dome people love each, get married, and stay married for decades. I am not sure what you mean that we should love each other more. Love is not something you just do. It's something you feel. Love is never expressed the same way as anybody else.
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Originally posted by Bradley Jay: As I've grown older ... When my mother passed she bequeathed her 86 GT to me that I started driving when I was 15. ... Registered: Jun 2008
Your still young. You got some more learning to do. I am 60 and so do I. I am still learning. On a good day, I learn more than one thing. That is a blessing.
I wish you well in life. From, I think, one of the more contensious members in this subsection,
Take care.
Now look what you did. I woke up to use the bathroom and you kept me up.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 05-03-2019).]
As I've grown older my participation in this forum has shrunk significantly...
When I was younger PFF positively shaped my understanding of the word 'community'. I presumed that this group was immune from hatred like this but I am now realizing that this was incorrect. This can be seen as naivete depending on who you are I'm sure.
Individually I hope y'all are doing well in your personal lives. I truly want nothing but the best for you and I do not say any of the above with malice towards a certain person in this thread. Just think we're getting a bag drawn over our heads and need to love each other a little more.
Hi, I hope you are well also. Don't let a few loudmouths make you think everything has changed. Its like that crime stat I cant remember but it goes something like: it only takes a very small percentage of people to do a major percentage of the crimes. Participation has largely gone because of facebook.But yes it is true and I have to say there are troublesome folks in every group or area of the world or web, PFF isn't immune. That said the news blows negativity out of proportion, take that into account when looking at "the world" as well. Come to a Fiero event or two, you'll see the good stuff still happens.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-03-2019).]
You talk of love. What is that ? Beauty ? It is skin deep. Love, it is the same. Some people love each other, get married, and then are divorced later, some as soon as not much later. Dome people love each, get married, and stay married for decades. I am not sure what you mean that we should love each other more. Love is not something you just do. It's something you feel. Love is never expressed the same way as anybody else.
I like your reply. I have a comment on this snippet. Its true society has lost track of what words mean, words like love, humans fail them. Divorce has ruined what marriage means. There is more than one kind of love. Here are a few good example of love that may fit.
"Love your neighbor as yourself"
more:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth."
"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."
"these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-03-2019).]
We viewed the Netflix show of her last night. How many folks do you think ran under this "grassroots" mantra this past election? Meaning, people that were chosen by a company to run for office?
How many people around you show tell tale signs of mental issues, yet still wander the streets free to vote, run, or engage in political activities that affect you and I?
You really need the Netflix presentation of Raise the House.
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: I just think we're getting a bag drawn over our heads and [b[need to love each other a little more[/b].
I didn't mention, ... please spare us and yourself from your utopian views on how the world should be. We have heard it all before. It really is an assault on our freedom of speech. Try telling Shakespear how to write, or Rappers what the content of rap lyrics should contain. Tell the ultra liberal Hollywood elites, who have armed guards, and who think and advocate that we should not, to quit putting guns in movies.
The world is not Burger King. I don't get it my way. Why should you ?
Russia has been messing with our politics and elections for years. I doubt if their efforts changed one vote, let alone any electoral votes. The difference this time, however, is that one political party was working with them too.
And it wasn't the Republicans.
This is about to get interesting. Everybody better pay attention.
This demonstrates the lack of real world experience that allows the rank and file left to be led down the primrose path. Their leaders take advantage of this ignorance, and that is deadly evil.
This reply is not directed towards anyone in particular, more-so being my general (and what will more than likely be unwelcome) thoughts on this entire discussion.
It's entirely bewildering, how y'all treat each other. This forum's division is, without a doubt in my mind, one of the more depressing discussions I've read in recent memory.
PFF is a forum that I've been a member of for quite a long time, albeit lurking for several of the latter years. When my mother passed she bequeathed her 86 GT to me that I started driving when I was 15. As much as I loved the damn thing it always broke down - wiring harness, EGR, headlights allllll the ****ing time and I still have old scars on my fingers & knuckles from tearing headlight motors out of junkers at Pick-a-Parts. Being a young teenager I didn't have Texas-sized money for a mechanic to repair this boat anchor that I love to death and I only got to enjoy this wonderfully-frustrating vehicle because of PFF. This forum taught me so much about my car and vehicles in general. Christ almighty I can't even say that this forum was just a resource for my car - it was an early resource for a malleable & impressionable kid who had no idea how to talk to adults. Claiming PFF had anything other than a significant impact on myself during my most critical years would be incorrect. My thoughts are that PFF is a wildly freakin' sweet example of American and, more importantly global, engineering and creativity. This community demonstrated this frequently, over and over and over, examples not needed. Y'all enjoy or used to enjoy your cars for similar reasons, and that fondness for the Fiero brought together a ton of bright minds from all over the place. This community produced a lot of value for a lot of people.
As I've grown older my participation in this forum has shrunk significantly; and nowadays 99% of the time is spent lurking instead. Discussions here are harder to participate in, let alone view. Over the past several years, I can't help but feel as if I've seen this forum's base - a majority of you - further and further refine your political views towards radicalism. Disagreements are indistinguishable from petty one-ups on one-another while the disdain for each other slowly became a coziness with hate. This may be misunderstood as a broad criticism when I want it to be interpreted as a general sadness towards this community so please do not misunderstand me. Odds are you'll find this misplaced. Odds also are that you're American, and that in your mind you believe you have the best interests of your country in mind.
Saying that half of the content I read here is abhorrent would be an accurate statement. Saying that the reality of knowing its directed towards one another is demoralizing would be putting it lightly. It downright scares me.
The Russian bear has drawn its claws and have gotten away with it. They are making a fool of us and our allies while we further bicker and in-fight and intensify the incivility towards each other. We're dividing and finding ourselves weaker because of it. We're losing. We're suckers. For every argument you win here you further draw the sand in the line between each other when we should be keeping it together. We're faced with a modern enemy that doesn't play by the rules and given an Administration that doesn't acknowledge the threat but loves to provoke and distinguish our differences. Where is the accountability? Where is the defense? Why is our nationalism misguided? Do you not feel like we're caught with our pants down or is our party loyalty so blindingly strong that we'd rather talk about things like this?
When I was younger PFF positively shaped my understanding of the word 'community'. I presumed that this group was immune from hatred like this but I am now realizing that this was incorrect. This can be seen as naivete depending on who you are I'm sure.
Individually I hope y'all are doing well in your personal lives. I truly want nothing but the best for you and I do not say any of the above with malice towards a certain person in this thread. Just think we're getting a bag drawn over our heads and need to love each other a little more.
Hey **** you that's why... if you don't know ask before you jump.
Disclaimer: If gardening and feeding friends and neighbors offends you, then please stop reading immediately.
A.O.C. talks about how community gardening is severely affected by white "colonialism". My cucumbers and green beans are no bueno.
I wonder if she ever figured out that whole garbage disposal thingie?
She has been munching on Bernie sandwiches this past few days, but decided to hit up the evil white man in full force this morning. Gawd I want you people to continue to speak. Do not shut up. Post, talk, write whatever the heck you want. I fully support your right to free speech.
This reply is not directed towards anyone in particular, more-so being my general (and what will more than likely be unwelcome) thoughts on this entire discussion.
I am always interested in another viewpoint. For me, it's easy, though. I am significantly intelligent enough that I don't find differing views an attack on or a threat to my own views, solely because they are different. I am conscience* of the concept of Civility.
*an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: It's entirely bewildering, how y'all treat each other. This forum's division is, without a doubt in my mind, one of the more depressing discussions I've read in recent memory.
Agreed. And yet the perpetrators are some of the very same people who claim great love & respect for Patriotism, yet don't seem to understand even the very basic meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance of The United States of America:
I pledge... A pledge is a promise or oath, a morally binding statement of intent.
allegiance... Allegiance is a trait of adherence and support. We pledge to give our loyalty.
to the flag of the United States of America... The flag is a symbol of the civil system that guarantees us the societal traits we enjoy.
and to the Republic for which it stands... An allegiance is not pledged to the President or to Congress or to any person or group. It is the constitutional structure that we pledge to.
one nation... It is one nation, not 50. E pluribus Unum ~ Out of many, one.
under God... It is under God, not under some king or overriding mortal authority.
indivisible... It is indivisible, by civil war or outside influences.
with liberty and justice for all... One of the most important virtues to be aspired towards by those proclaiming allegiance to the flag - liberty and justice for all.
Seems incredibly clear to me.
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: Over the past several years, I can't help but feel as if I've seen this forum's base - a majority of you - further and further refine your political views towards radicalism. Disagreements are indistinguishable from petty one-ups on one-another while the disdain for each other slowly became a coziness with hate.
It's nothing more than the purposeful manufacture of a tailor-made Great White Whale, with which to "pile upon it the sum of all the general rage and hate, felt by his whole race from Adam on down"*
A hate for the other side that seems based on the fear of losing (perceived or otherwise) parcel control over one's own self-determination.
Having someone else have a say/vote on it.
Of losing one's personal sovereignty.
*Herman Melville
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Originally posted by Bradley Jay: Odds are you'll find this misplaced. Odds also are that you're American, and that in your mind you believe you have the best interests of your country in mind.
It smacks more of self-centeredness, than patriotism; "What I believe is best", "What I believe is right", "How I want it to be".
The self-supporting prophecy that "I need my personal foundation to be strong, therefore I need to believe my beliefs to be infallible & unquestionable, making my way the only way. Others are wrong & don't deserve consideration. What's good for me is good for you. The end."
A ego-centric attitude as old as Man himself: What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? ~ Romans 8:31
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: Saying that half of the content I read here is abhorrent would be an accurate statement. Saying that the reality of knowing its directed towards one another is demoralizing would be putting it lightly. It downright scares me.
It's all about fear and the alleviation of the feeling of powerlessness in oneself. The need for "enemies" to point at, and proclaim one's superiority over. The closer the better. And if you can't find one, create one.
It solidifies ones righteousness in their own beliefs. "I'm in the right, they're in the wrong. There's is no gray." The ease & laziness of Black & White thinking.
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay: We're faced with an Administration that loves to provoke and distinguish our differences.
And then demonize those differences. Make your own countrymen, neighbor, and even fellow forum member, the enemy.
Misdirection is an excellent & time-proven tool to divide & conquer. If you're foolish enough, or lazy enough to fall for it.
“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.” ~ Abraham Lincoln
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Originally posted by Bradley Jay: When I was younger PFF positively shaped my understanding of the word 'community'. I presumed that this group was immune from hatred like this but I am now realizing that this was incorrect.
The insanity is that as a species, we have made it this far because we realized long ago that we achieve our greatest accomplishments only when we work together. Tribalism throughout History is and always has been a dead-end for humans. Yet, here we are again.
Creating battlefields is easy; it's the common ground that seems hard-won. We can do better.
No man is an island entire of itself; Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, As well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were;
Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. ~ John Donne
.
I fully support your right to free speech. 
