I’m in favor of a more modern solution to solve the problem of illegal entry. With improved electronic monitoring & tracking, no one would ever raise a fuss about the cost or “humanitarian” implications.
It could all be handled under the public radar, with nary a complaint.
The concept of a “wall” is being politically used as a divider. Not between us & them, but us & us.
EDIT: I bet if the President anounced that he would capitulate and settle for 5 billion in improved surveillance & tracking equipment, he’d get his money, and look like The Good Guy to both sides.
Who knows, maybe I’M the stable genius!
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2019).]
EDIT: I bet if the President anounced that he would capitulate and settle for 5 billion in improved surveillance & tracking equipment, he’d get his money, and look like The Good Guy to both sides.
Who knows, maybe I’M the stable genius!
Boonie, You may be a genius (or not) . Won't attempt to make that distinction. But, I'll take that bet. The Dems currently in leadership roles won't give the President anything that could be construed as a victory.
I find it hard to believe that anyone could honestly argue against a controlled border, though I know that some do. I think the question is how to control the border.
In my opinion, a physical barrier is more absolute with lower required maintenance and thus over time is far less costly than any high tech solution. Who here would enjoy living next to a prison which was guarded only by radar and drones?
In response to President Donald Trump’s call for a border wall, some members of Congress have instead offered a “virtual wall”—ocean-to-ocean border surveillance with technology, especially unmanned aircraft known as drones. U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) already operates a fleet of nine unmanned aircraft. Although drones have been widely used in foreign battlefields, they have failed to help CBP apprehend illegal border crossers and seize drugs. Drones have led to only 0.5 percent of apprehensions at a cost of $32,000 per arrest.
At the same time, drones undermine Americans’ privacy. Their surveillance records the daily lives of Americans living along the border, and because CBP regularly uses its drones to support the operations of other federal agencies as well as state and local police, its drones allow for government surveillance nationwide with minimal oversight and without warrants. CBP should wind down its drone program and, in the meantime, establish more robust privacy protections.
There are already balloons with radar and cameras along the border, but that solution is obviously insufficient, as the problem persists.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-12-2019).]
I find it hard to believe that anyone could honestly argue against a controlled border, though I know that some do. I think the question is how to control the border.
In my opinion, a physical barrier is more absolute with lower required maintenance and thus over time is far less costly than any high tech solution. Who here would enjoy living next to a prison which was guarded only by radar and drones?
I believe this isn’t (and never has been) about safety, or stemming some foreign tide. I think it’s just a shiny object presented to occupy our attention. It’s definitely no emergency. It will come and go, and a new one will take it’s place.
As it is when watching a magician, look opposite of where you are being shown to see the trick.
When I moved to the USA all those years ago, and every single time I have entered since, it was LEGALLY and with respect to the laws of the land.
These people who think they can just show up, take what they want, and force us to live to THEIR culture need to be kicked right the hell back where they came from.
Better yet, just shoot them to stop them getting in, in the 1st place.
I am all for border walls...with machine-gun, snipers, and rocket nests on top.
1,000 years ago people built castles with walls to keep the unwelcome out. It worked. Dont see why we arent doing the same thing now.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-12-2019).]
I believe this isn’t (and never has been) about safety, or stemming some foreign tide. I think it’s just a shiny object presented to occupy our attention. It’s definitely no emergency. It will come and go, and a new one will take it’s place.
As it is when watching a magician, look opposite of where you are being shown to see the trick.
I don't think that you are saying that all the lives lost each year to crimes ranging from human trafficking to drugs and outright murder are acceptable, so how do we prevent the tragedy?
I don't think that you are saying that all the lives lost each year to crimes ranging from human trafficking to drugs and outright murder are acceptable, so how do we prevent the tragedy?
I hope that’s because I didn’t say that at all.
All those crimes are committed by a wide range of people, and not all from across the border. A wall may indeed lessen that number by some percentage, or not. For a lot of them, their first (and maybe only crime) may be crossing the border itself.
I believe in a secure border. But nothing will ever be 100% secure.
I believe money for a more secure border can be better spend on methods other than a wall, which has been politically morphed into more then just a wall. It is now some kind of “boogie man” (despite a lot of “wall” already being there for quite some time).
O men, let’s be real; everyone understands the purpose of a good fence. What could possibly be the problem, presented that way?
In my opinion, the President handled this problem poorly. Handled differently, he could have gotten the more secure border he sez he wanted. I believe his ego got in the way.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2019).]
While some may carry their bleeding heart on their sleeve, I am adamant about a wall. Yes, call it what you want, but I want a wall.
I have also given reasons as to why in several other threads and feel like I have made what point I have to offer. But, calling it "not an emergency" is merely the feelings some have. Not the facts.
Who's ****ing feelings do I need to apologize to after I wrote words? Come on meow, I know someone shat purple twinkies because Tony Kania posted an opinion piece.
quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:
Simple. Draw a line. Cross it, get shot.
He, he. More truth to this than most want to accept. Rose colored marijuana bowl and all. :
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-12-2019).]
I believe in a secure border. But nothing will ever be 100% secure. I believe money for a more secure border can be better spend on methods other than a wall, which has been politically morphed into more then just a wall.
Whether I agree or not, what are your suggested methods?
Edited: Be advised, I have lived, served, flown and guarded the most secure border in the world, between the Koreas. I agree, no border is totally secure but, the only way IMHO to totally secure a boundary is with a death sentence and some will still try to breach it.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-12-2019).]
Whether I agree or not, what are your suggested methods?
Rams
I believe I’ve already stated that, based on what little knowledge I have with electronic surveillance & tracking.
Maybe someone with more experience in that field could chime in and shed some light on the details of how that would or wouldn’t work, or the difficulty’s involved in implementing said systems.
What do they use at Area 51 that a Jeep of armed dudes show up as soon as you cross a line?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2019).]
I believe I’ve already stated that, based on what little knowledge I have with electronic surveillance & tracking.
Maybe someone with more experience in that field could chime in and shed some light on the details of how that would or wouldn’t work, or the difficulty’s involved in implementing said systems.
What do they use at Area 51 that a Jeep of armed dudes show up as soon as you cross a line?
Might work on a limited scale. How long is that border again? Resources have to be available to respond, people need to get paid to be on stand by and to react. Satellites, reaction resources and personnel ain't cheap. All that said, such things would still be necessary with a barrier wall.
Might work on a limited scale, how long is that border?
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-12-2019).]
I believe I’ve already stated that, based on what little knowledge I have with electronic surveillance & tracking.
Maybe someone with more experience in that field could chime in and shed some light on the details of how that would or wouldn’t work, or the difficulty’s involved in implementing said systems.
That sounds like promising technology. They should put it all along the wall. Just like balloons and drones, it might let us know when someone has crossed the border, but will not stop anyone.
Walls and fences are deterrents. While they are not 100% efficient they stop most people at that point. Surveillance and tracking requires someone to go find them. This is all after the crime has been committed and in the long run will cost more. While waiting for the offender to be apprehended you are vulnerable to more laws being broken. If you stop the majority at the wall then that cost in money and harm to people stop there. If we armed and patrolled the wall then confrontation will escalate until those less tolerant to doing the right thing will shut it down.
One thing is apparent if you look back at the past presidents they were all aware that we have a problem at the border, they have all tried and in my opinion failed. Should we have a wall, yes I believe at this time we need to do something and the cost in nothing compared to what we could lose if we don't build it. So build the wall, put the citizens first and then filter those that would make us better and leave those that would bring us down on the cold side of the wall.
So, the question is: how much are those lives worth? Are they worth less because they are not Americans? Are thy worthless because they are not America's responsibility? What level of human suffering is acceptable?
I am not worried about the drug addicts, they accept the risk when they pick up the needle. But those who die in the desert are the genuine refugees, who have endured such horrific conditions at home that they would rather risk the known danger of the coyotes (believe me they know how dangerous it is) and leave everything behind to seek the promised land. Yes, America is such a wonderful place that they willingly risk their lives to get here.
Throughout modern history Marxists have absolutely LOVED walls, barbed wire, guard towers and minefields....
...but only to keep people from escaping their totalitarian rule......Not getting IN.
If the Marxists in the United States ever succeed in getting what they really want, there will be walls around every border and port in this country faster than you can blink.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-12-2019).]
That sounds like promising technology. They should put it all along the wall. Just like balloons and drones, it might let us know when someone has crossed the border, but will not stop anyone.
The drones and electronic surveillance will just tell you where they are and which way they're headed (theyre in mexico and coming north). Duh! We got that figured out already. Then what? Border patrol is dispatched to catch em, n they claim asylum. Theyre still gettin in that way duh! Theyd have to climb over the wall if there was one. Yall've heard my land mine border wall- but what about those automated machine gun sentries they had in aliens( yes the 2nd movie),those'd work too. Even better- put the robots after the land mine border. Nobodys dumb enough to cross that, mmm nah some would still try. But those are the ones we definitely dont want here lol.
Yes It sucks we cant let everybody in all at once to make their lives better, their countries definitely suck. It Has to be moderated or our country will then be like their country. They know in their country the govt, cops, and militaries are corrupted, but then they bring that mindset here. I say we take colonies again- we could manage it with less corruption then they can.
I know a ton of undocumented people here, most are good folk and just looking to be in a better place w better people. Ive heard some really f@cked up stories of what people went through to come here. I see both sides of the argument very clearly but we still need a wall. Hell most of the undocumented folk I know support the wall. They cant go home anyways.
Originally posted by blackrams: Another excellent example, Israel. They have border security down pretty well.
Indeed. But let me clarify. The "Lattice" virtual border wall technology is being developed by a U.S. company. A startup that is headquartered close by (to me) in Silicon Valley. It's called "Anduril".
quote
Besides [Palmer] Luckey, who gave money to an alt-right group and donated to Trump’s inaugural committee, the team includes former executives from the secretive data-crunching company Palantir, whose work for many government agencies has raised alarms about intrusive surveillance. And Anduril’s lead investor is Founders Fund, the VC firm headed by Peter Thiel, a prominent Trump supporter and the guy who shut down Gawker [with a lawsuit].
One of Anduril's competitors in virtual border wall technology is an older and more established company called "Elbit". Elbit (Elbit Systems) is an Israeli entity.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-13-2019).]
Remember, you only need one foot in the us to claim asylum (true or not) and get released into the U.S. with a pay check on only your word that you'll return to have your case heard.
I believe I’ve already stated that, based on what little knowledge I have with electronic surveillance & tracking.
Maybe someone with more experience in that field could chime in and shed some light on the details of how that would or wouldn’t work, or the difficulty’s involved in implementing said systems.
What do they use at Area 51 that a Jeep of armed dudes show up as soon as you cross a line?
Tracking and drones track them after they have crossed. A wall stops them from crossing.
In this instance the people the jeeps show up to are housed, or released depending on the circumstance, most never manage to make it to their court hearing for some reason.
Should old forum-threads be forgot, and never brought to mind?
Not as long as I'm on the "job."
California-based Anduril Industries has been awarded a federal contract to... let my "friend" Nick Miroff, a staff writer for the Washington Post, explain:
quote
The five-year agreement between U.S. Customs and Border Protection and Anduril Industries calls for the company to deploy hundreds of solar-powered mobile surveillance towers designed to operate in rugged locations. With cameras and thermal imaging, they detect moving objects and feed an artificial-intelligence system capable of distinguishing among animals, humans and vehicles, sending location and mapping information right to the cellphones of U.S. patrol agents.
Miroff continues with what many are likely to perceive as an obvious question:
quote
The effectiveness of the Anduril system in pilot programs so far, and the administration’s deepening commitment to the technology, raises an obvious — if awkward — question for homeland security officials as Trump spends billions of taxpayer dollars to speed up his border wall project. If the Anduril system [called "Lattice"] can spot migrants and smugglers from miles away and guide U.S. agents right to them, what is the point of building a costly physical barrier in isolated border areas where there are few crossings?
I guess that raises the more or less obvious question for federal decision makers, 'Do you want Lattice on that Border Wall?"
quote
Border security experts and Anduril executives say the Lattice system is a breakthrough in border technology. The company claims the artificial-intelligence software is capable of distinguishing between an animal and a human with 97 percent accuracy, reducing the number of times agents respond to sensors triggered by cattle, deer, peccary and other large mammals wandering the borderlands.
The system does not use facial recognition or other personal-identification technology, minimizing the privacy concerns typically associated with the deployment of powerful government surveillance equipment across large open spaces. It is designed primarily for use in remote border regions with few people, not urban areas with more crossings, to provide agents with what the company calls “wide area understanding.”
Say "Hello" to Palmer Luckey:
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Anduril’s founder, 27-year-old Palmer Luckey, sold his previous company, Oculus, to Facebook for $3 billion in 2014. He was forced out at Facebook in 2017 after a donation to a pro-Trump group angered co-workers, but he denied that politics got him fired.
Luckey, who grew up in Southern California’s Orange County, cultivates a nerd-warrior image, dressing in flip-flops and Hawaiian shirts while running the company he named after a sword in the “Lord of the Rings” series. Venture capital firms recently poured another $200 million into Anduril, which is now valued at nearly $2 billion, the company said Wednesday.
The complete report is a "read." My copy-and-paste here is only about 10 or 15 percent of the entire text. There are also some photographs.
"Trump administration hires tech firm to build a virtual border wall, an idea Democrats have praised" Nick Miroff for the Washington Post; July 2, 2020. https://www.washingtonpost....2530208bd_story.html
I have seen it referred to as a "Virtual Wall". Wall: any of various permanent upright constructions having a length much greater than the thickness and presenting a continuous surface except where pierced by doors, windows, etc.: used for shelter, protection, or privacy, or to subdivide interior space, to support floors, roofs, or the like, to retain earth, to fence in an area, etc. Usually walls. a rampart raised for defensive purposes. Physical structure built to keep something or someone in or something or someone out
This line of sensors does none of the above. They simply let the Border Patrol know when something or someone has already gotten in. Closing the gate after the lion has gotten in is tail wagging the dog. Keep the friggin gate shut and you won't need the damn things.
It's like taking the door off your home but having a video camera to record who it was that came in during the night and killed your family and stole everything you own.
I'm sure those components will bring good salvage $$$ down in Ciudad Acuna, Nuevo Leon, and Ciudad Juarez...
More truth to this than most want to accept. Rose colored marijuana bowl and all. :
