I don't post as much because many of the threads are really parts of the "same" thread. I've already said what I have to say on that topic so for the most part I don't comment in many of those offshoot threads. It's kind of like when the forum was rife with shade ball threads. I didn't comment in them all because I had already expressed my opinion in one of the many other threads. I guess that makes me a lurker?

I do comment on other threads from time to time, when I see something that interests me. The main issue though is that with fewer people actually active on the forum, topics of interest are more rare. Or, people who posted interesting responses that I would like to elaborate on my thoughts to the original topic and their specific opinion has become more rare.

Look, I'll just break it down easy. When so many of the topics are in some way linked to the Trump/Russia idiocy and it's the same 4 or 5 people in the topic being pugnacious, I'll just leave those cats in the bag. Often even the non-Russia related threads are still in some way Trump related and they end up being just as quarrelsome with those same few members. I don't hate any of those members, I just get bored reading the SSDD. So where I used to have PFF up on a frequently viewed tab. Now it's there on that tab but I only visit it ever couple of days, unless I see something interesting I want to interact on.

So yeah, looks like I've become a lurker.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I loooove fried chicken. I love steak. If i could only eat one, which would I choose...

Its easier to get good Fried chicken than a good steak.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: I don't post as much because many of the threads are really parts of the "same" thread. I've already said what I have to say on that topic so for the most part I don't comment in many of those offshoot threads. It's kind of like when the forum was rife with shade ball threads. I didn't comment in them all because I had already expressed my opinion in one of the many other threads. I guess that makes me a lurker? I do comment on other threads from time to time, when I see something that interests me. The main issue though is that with fewer people actually active on the forum, topics of interest are more rare. Or, people who posted interesting responses that I would like to elaborate on my thoughts to the original topic and their specific opinion has become more rare. Look, I'll just break it down easy. When so many of the topics are in some way linked to the Trump/Russia idiocy and it's the same 4 or 5 people in the topic being pugnacious, I'll just leave those cats in the bag. Often even the non-Russia related threads are still in some way Trump related and they end up being just as quarrelsome with those same few members. I don't hate any of those members, I just get bored reading the SSDD. So where I used to have PFF up on a frequently viewed tab. Now it's there on that tab but I only visit it ever couple of days, unless I see something interesting I want to interact on. So yeah, looks like I've become a lurker.

Well put.

I don't know for sure, but from Mr. Pennocks viewpoint, I would imagine he would encourage more varied topics in the T/OT section of the website.
Maybe that would draw in more people who might not own a Fiero, but enjoy the robust nature of the varied topics discussed in Pennocks T/OT.
To my thinking, more traffic equals more revenue generated from advertisers for the upkeep & maintenance of the site.
Might even put a few extra ducat's in Cliff's pocket!

It wouldn't affect the technological seriousness of the other sections, and could make it a very lucrative endeavor for the host.
And it's a way to increase the eventual unavoidable decline in membership.

"Come For The Conversation, Stay For The Cars!"

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-14-2019).]

I see three things that often stifle productive discourse: misinformation, mischaracterization and personal insults.

I could post something like:
“I like red cars”

and the response might be:
“You are a moron. Only a nazi would demand that all cars be red. Besides, it is a well known fact that red paint causes pregnancy.”

I recently posted a thread regarding a discussion that I found on another forum. I found the topic interesting, but another reason for posting the thread was that I saw it as an example of how civil discourse can flourish among those who disagree.

quote Originally posted by williegoat: I see three things that often stifle productive discourse: misinformation, mischaracterization and personal insults. I could post something like: “I like red cars” and the response might be: “You are a moron. Only a nazi would demand that all cars be red. Besides, it is a well known fact that red paint causes pregnancy.” I recently posted a thread regarding a discussion that I found on another forum. I found the topic interesting, but another reason for posting the thread was that I saw it as an example of how civil discourse can flourish among those who disagree.

Well said and great example!

The question is "Why?"
Why do some do it?

And why do others allow it?

Shouldn't personal insults be meet by condemnation from the other members here who are interested in keeping an environment of the free exchange of ideas & opinions civil?

I'm not talking about condemning disagreements, I'm talking about condemning personal attacks over another's opinion.
I'm talking about being civil.

I was taught it as a child, but I imagine it can be learned at a later age.

Or it could be I'm missing something.
What is the advantage to NOT being civil?

What does the perpetrator gain?

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Shouldn't personal insults be meet by condemnation from the other members here who are interested in keeping an environment of the free exchange of ideas & opinions civil?

I have found it best to stay out of the personal quarrels of others.

Those who are excessively mean or rude are usually fighting their own demons that we do not see.

In addition, as adults, we can all fight our own battles. I have done just that few times on here and some might have perceived that as rude, not knowing the background.

quote Originally posted by williegoat: I see three things that often stifle productive discourse: misinformation, mischaracterization and personal insults. I could post something like: “I like red cars”

Or maybe someone could post something like:
Bla bla bla, I can outrun a horse...

Then back it up with...
Because I sweat....

The response is BS!

Then claim they never said it...

I particularly do not enjoy the spamming of the forum when certain folks get miffed because their "Pennocks Content" is not up to their inebriated liking.


"Seems like more lurkers and alot less talkers in OT these days?"

Seems like a lot more Youtube redirects and a lot more page spamming in OT these days?

See what I did here?

Edit: I actually do not care what anyone wants to post. Within forum and moral rights. Go ahead, spam the pizz out of it if it gets Cliff more views. Post pictures of fairies riding unicorns for all I care. Just do not let it leave this forum's walls. If it does...

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: Or maybe someone could post something like: Bla bla bla, I can outrun a horse... Then back it up with... Because I sweat.... The response is BS! Then claim they never said it...

For those interested in a refresher of the post that spawned the above-mentioned insanity:

"I'm More Badazz Then I Even Thought. On A Very Hot Day, I Can Outrun A Horse..." by Boondawg

The article I was referencing:

quote The Human Body Is Built for Distance The scientific evidence supports the notion that humans evolved to be runners. In a 2007 paper in the journal Sports Medicine, Daniel E. Lieberman, a Harvard evolutionary biologist, and Dennis M. Bramble, a biologist at the University of Utah, wrote that several characteristics unique to humans suggested endurance running played an important role in our evolution. Most mammals can sprint faster than humans — having four legs gives them the advantage. But when it comes to long distances, humans can outrun almost any animal. Because we cool by sweating rather than panting, we can stay cool at speeds and distances that would overheat other animals. On a hot day, the two scientists wrote, a human could even outrun a horse in a 26.2-mile marathon. https://www.nytimes.com/200...th/27well.html?_r=2&

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/111251.html

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: For those interested in a refresher of the post that spawned the above-mentioned insanity:

Whines about being "civil".

Calls another member's post "insanity".

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Shouldn't personal insults be meet by condemnation from the other members here who are interested in keeping an environment of the free exchange of ideas & opinions civil?

You, and every other member of this forum, have the power to either condemn or commend other members as they see fit.



In my many years on this earth it has been my observation that there are certain kinds of people who only cry for "civility" when they are not in a position to be able to silence or eliminate those with whom they disagree.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-14-2019).]

Ah, the (in)famous Pennock's member on member rating system.

That ain't worth a d*ck. Not as far as the Off Topic section. As it has long (many years) been plain to see.

An open discussion forum without an active moderator is like a public restroom without an attentive janitorial staff.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: Ah, the (in)famous Pennock's member on member rating system. That ain't worth a d*ck. Not as far as the Off Topic section. As it has long (many years) been plain to see. An open discussion forum without an active moderator is like a public restroom without an attentive janitorial staff.

I only have two beefs with the ratings system.

I believe that to give someone a "neg" without an accompanying explanation is fruitless at best and an act of cowardice. If you are going to reach out and slap someone, don't run away. Be a man* and own up to it.

I would like to see a system whereby if a member is banned, all of his ratings are removed.

*or a duck billed platypus for all I care, just take responsibility

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: Ah, the (in)famous Pennock's member on member rating system. That ain't worth a d*ck. Not as far as the Off Topic section. As it has long (many years) been plain to see.

The old saying: "Those who can't dance blame the music" comes to mind:



Ronald, the fact that you, and even "Threedog", are still here is testament to the tolerance of this forum.

The reason you don't like the system is because it doesn't inure to your personal desires.


"In my many years on this earth it has been my observation that there are certain kinds of people who only cry for "civility" when they are not in a position to be able to silence or eliminate those with whom they disagree."

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-14-2019).]

Anyone who comes onto the end of this discussion--now we are on Page 2--needs to review it from the very beginning, back on Page 1. Without that, they are just flying blind. Like Visual Only aircraft pilots who have flown themselves into near zero visibility weather conditions. Unless they have already been part of it or have reviewed it from its very beginning.

I was the first to Reply to the Original Post.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/123210.html#p1

Boondawg came in right after that.

That was like a one-two punch. Or a well executed rush play from the I-formation. The Fullback in front helps clear the path, while the Tailback receives the handoff and follows in the Fullback's path, moving the ball forward for positive yardage. The "ball" of sensible discourse.

quote Originally posted by randye: Whines about being "civil". Calls another member's post "insanity".

1. I am not whining. I'm inquiring about the difficulty some seem to have with the concept of civility in conversation.
2. The "above-mentioned insanity" refers to the past post of mine you were referencing. I have no knowledge concerning your mental wellness.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: For those interested in a refresher of the post that spawned the above-mentioned insanity:

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: 1. I am not whining. I'm inquiring about the difficulty some seem to have with the concept of civility in conversation. 2. The "above-mentioned insanity" refers to the past post of mine you were referencing. I have no knowledge concerning your mental wellness.

1. You are being uncivil and name calling. Things you say and detest, yet here... we... are?
2. Only you need to explain #2 to yourself. Is it your short term memory?

You need to be nicer to others Don.

Same with Ronald. Enough already. ****ing Optiboard.

quote Originally posted by williegoat: I only have two beefs with the ratings system. I believe that to give someone a "neg" without an accompanying explanation is fruitless at best and an act of cowardice. If you are going to reach out and slap someone, don't run away. Be a man* and own up to it. I would like to see a system whereby if a member is banned, all of his ratings are removed. *or a duck billed platypus for all I care, just take responsibility

This, I agree with.
Although I am sure it would lead to more counter ratings, I sincerely believe that the recipient of a rating should be advised of the why and the who done it. I also agree with banned "former" members ratings being eliminated.

Rams.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: 1. You are being uncivil and name calling. Things you say and detest, yet here... we... are? 2. Only you need to explain #2 to yourself. Is it your short term memory? You need to be nicer to others Don. Same with Ronald. Enough already. ****ing Optiboard.

What do you know about Optiboard? That was many years ago. This isn't Optiboard. And no one here is being "Optiboard'ed" by the former Optiboard member (me).

I am still an Optiboard member, but with rare exception now from time to time, I am not an active Optiboard member anymore.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-14-2019).]

Sticks and stones may break my bones (because I am old and didn’t drink my milk), but the charge at the gate of billions of MOSFETs cascading across the substrate will never hurt me. (the voltage is far too low)

Y’all are nothing but the aggregation of so many flip-flops.

Cogito ergo sum. I’m not so sure about the rest of you.

So there!

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: That was like a one-two punch.

No it wasn't Ronald.

No "punches" were landed. No "score" was achieved and there was no "yardage gained", (except perhaps in your diseased imagination).

It was just a couple of OPINIONS Ronald.

That's all. Nothing more.

The objective FACT is that there is only one person that may know the answer to the question posed by the OP and he owns PFF.

OPINIONS as to why there might be more lurkers than "talkers" are pure conjecture.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by williegoat: Sticks and stones may break my bones (because I am old and didn’t drink my milk), but the charge at the gate of billions of MOSFETs cascading across the substrate will never hurt me. (the voltage is far too low) Y’all are nothing but the aggregation of so many flip-flops. Cogito ergo sum. I’m not so sure about the rest of you. So there!

Ok, now I'm confused. Should or shouldn't I be insulted by this?

Rams

quote Originally posted by randye: No it wasn't Ronald. No "punches" were landed. No "score" was achieved and there was no "yardage gained", (except perhaps in your fevered imagination). It was just a couple of OPINIONS Ronald. That's all. Nothing more. The objective FACT is that there is only one person that may know the answer to the question posed by the OP and he owns PFF. OPINIONS as to why there might be more lurkers than "talkers" are pure conjecture.

Well, randye, that is a good message from you.

It's civil. Civil, even, with a capital C.

If you could keep your criticisms of every other member's messages--including me--up at that level of civility, and refrain from things that should not be said here by one member about another, like "mentally ill" or "drooling moron", or "YOU NEED [PSYCHIATRIC] HELP", that would be great.

When I say "things that should not be said here by one member about another", it goes back to this:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/123210.html#p1

That's an "insta-scroll" to an earlier moment in this discussion.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-15-2019).]

Oh **** it, I hope you all have a good day.

Ta ta for now biotches.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: This, I agree with. Although I am sure it would lead to more counter ratings, I sincerely believe that the recipient of a rating should be advised of the why and the who done it. I also agree with banned "former" members ratings being eliminated. Rams.

So rinselberg, I don’t recall if anyone has ever asked you directly:

Are you the dude who dispatched the dung,
the man who mailed the muck,
the person who packed the parcel of poop or
the sap who shipped the sh…..(ok, I’d better stop there)?



The mystery has been this forum’s equivalent of crop circles (or is that crap circles?)

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-15-2019).]

quote Originally posted by randye: Ronald, I will post WHAT I want, HOW I want, WHEN I want. If you don't like it you have 4 options. 1. Keep sending 147 complaints a month to Cliff. I'm sure he "enjoys" hearing from you. 2. STFU 3. LEAVE 4. Keep refusing to get the mental health treatment you so desperately need and keep on as you have been. I only ask that you do not mail any more containers of poop to me and your other "enemies". If you do it, or anything like that, again I promise you that law enforcement WILL become involved and you will NOT enjoy the outcome. If you make any more death threats at me on this forum, vague or explicit, law enforcement WILL become involved and you will NOT enjoy the outcome.

In just this one single message (and the one that followed it), forum member randye has yet again revealed himself as a false witness (liar) about Optiboard, and has yet again made himself Loud and Clear as to why he is not fit to be part of any online discussion forum where Civility is both expected and required, as called for by Posting Rule #1.

HIs unfitness is manifest when he asserts, as he just did, that "I will post WHAT I want, HOW I want, WHEN I want." What's missing from that assertion? The part that says "in accordance with the Posting Rules." To wit:

quote I will post WHAT I want, HOW I want, WHEN I want... but always in accordance with the Posting Rules.

That is what he ought to assert.

Only a drooling moron like randye would carry on here as if the First Listed Among The Posting Rules (or Rule #1) grants him the latitude to repeatedly call out other forum members as "drooling morons" (or some close equivalent) because they create New Topics that he does not like; or because they express ideas and opinions that he does not like.

There is no reference or provision in the Posting Rules about what forum member randye does or does not like.

Now about those "death threats"... I hope that forum member randye will feel more than welcome by me to share that most recent "rinselberg" public forum message (post) with law enforcement--the message that he is describing as "death threats", or connecting with "death threats."

I would be tickled pink (to revive an old figure of speech ) for any law enforcement in his vicinity (or any vicinity) to have that message.

I will leave it up to forum member randye's own discretion as to whether he wants to provide a link to that message within this discussion, or copy and paste the text of that message into this discussion.

If he duplicates only part of the message into this discussion, I will duplicate the entire message (which is not that long) into this discussion.

Death threats my azz.

Let no one lose track or be unaware of how this discussion came to arrive at this fine juncture (or sorry state). Here's an "insta-scroll" to go back to that moment:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/F...ML/123210-2.html#p62

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-15-2019).]

been back and posted in 3-4 threads. and the normal snowflakes are back using the arrow.
And then the same yoyo's wonder why people lurk.

It looks more like 'tickeled magenta'.

Is that an old phrase?

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: been back and posted in 3-4 threads. and the normal snowflakes are back using the arrow. And then the same yoyo's wonder why people lurk.

I had to check to see what I rated you. It is a positive BTW. Been like that forever.

Enjoy your day...

I am one of the few that will let a fella know where he stands. Rating system included.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-15-2019).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Shouldn't personal insults be meet by condemnation from the other members here who are interested in keeping an environment of the free exchange of ideas & opinions civil

I try from time to time.

It seems in general people just don't post a lot, if they aren't going to post "that's cool" or "I like that photo/video" they most likely aren't going to post "hey you could have said that nicer". etc

<------ Not an avatar.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I see a point you might be trying to make but don't think it works. I don't see entertainment, or posts about issues with society, or posts about music, or things one is interested in as spam.Click to show Off Topic simply means not about Fieros.

Exactly! This man gets it.

FYI, I am not offended when Boondawg spams the forum. He is smoked out high and pizzy that the O/T section does not produce the stimulus that his receptors require. We know this, and allow it. I am 100% on board with it. But, I have every right to comment and say what I want, when I want, and where I want. (I do understand that this statement irks the left.)

The ****ing hypocrisy with those that lean left astounds me.

O/T, ie. Off Topic. If ya want to get offended folks, then post this stuff in General and get back to me how that works out for ya.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-15-2019).]