If it's against the rules to wear a hat, it's against the rules. Send the kid to the office and stop being an SJW. If it's not against the rules, move on or you don't deserve a job.
(What kind of fracking world have we created ? I might have spent the past few years hiding in my own little dysfunctional corner of it, but things dont go downhill like that in just 3 years. Looks like I have to do a better job of hiding. )
It's just another historical hiccup. As soon as it attempts to mature (and fails), it will be replaced by something else seemingly idealistically new & fresh, and again will become a complete waste of that time in the course of History. It's a Human Nature issue.
The "soft" want the World to be softer. The "hard", harder.
I want no one to change. I mentioned this before. I want to be left to live my life without intrusion of other's enforcement. Nothing more.
Edit: The kid should have complied, but there is more water to this story than being let out. He was/is being bullied by a teacher for his political values in a public classroom. The child's political values do not warrant an adult in charge to belittle a child in learning. Yes, a child.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 11-26-2018).]
Wow, red sweater boy spends over a minute stringing together random words, cliches that he has heard actual adults use, without expressing a single, coherent thought. And I'll bet good money he is crying about not getting paid enough. I wonder if he is a member here.
Maybe we need to start having parents sit in on classes to see how their taxes are being spent. Those poor kids and their parents are being screwed.
I had a couple of "teachers" like that. They hated me. I wore that as a badge of honor. I had an assistant principle challenge me to a fist fight because he could not defend his position with words.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 11-26-2018).]
What the teacher is doing there, is what I call "soft fascism". He can't tolerate an opposing political viewpoint. But he doesn't have the balls to admit it. So he tries to make the kid look like the bad guy.
Wow, red sweater boy spends over a minute stringing together random words, cliches that he has heard actual adults use, without expressing a single, coherent thought. And I'll bet good money he is crying about not getting paid enough. I wonder if he is a member here.
Maybe we need to start having parents sit in on classes to see how their taxes are being spent. Those poor kids and their parents are being screwed.
I had a couple of "teachers" like that. They hated me. I wore that as a badge of honor. I had an assistant principle challenge me to a fist fight because he could not defend his position with words.
If it's against the rules to wear a hat, it's against the rules. Send the kid to the office and stop being an SJW. If it's not against the rules, move on or you don't deserve a job.
X2
If that school had a hat rule,..then so be it, follow the rules. The kid should have just taken the hat off and set it on his desk top. Arguing with the teacher (even this one who was clearly wrong as well) just made him look like a chump. I wanted to agree with him, but is argument was as lame as the teachers. When he broke down to: " it could be a religious symbol" I lost interest and turned off the video.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-26-2018).]
I know that California has dress code in schools for good reason. One reason for dress code is gangs. Another is exactly what happened in this video, purposeful distraction. The same thing could have been done in the name of bringing attention to the " plight of migrants at the Mexican border". No matter the political affiliation or social cause, the classroom is not the place for it. Do that stuff on your own time, not at the expense of a captured audience.
I know that California has dress code in schools for good reason. One reason for dress code is gangs. Another is exactly what happened in this video, purposeful distraction. The same thing could have been done in the name of bringing attention to the " plight of migrants at the Mexican border". No matter the political affiliation or social cause, the classroom is not the place for it. Do that stuff on your own time, not at the expense of a captured audience.
I have NO PROBLEM with keeping partisan politics OUT of classrooms.
That includes all classrooms from elementary level to university.
That does not mean that basic American Civics classes should not be taught.
It is still JUST A HAT and really doesn't justify all of the drama and histrionics that it was given.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-27-2018).]
I have NO PROBLEM with keeping partisan politics OUT of classrooms.
That includes all classrooms from elementary level to university.
That does not mean that basic American Civics classes should not be taught.
It is still JUST A HAT and really doesn't justify all of the drama and histrionics that it was given.
I agree. The context of the class lesson should not be deviated from. That is why I said "purposeful distraction". For example what if a "pink hat" movement talked a bunch of sponges into bringing in pink P hats into class? Where does it end? I am good with shutting it all down. That truly is the only way to be fair and equal to ALL the students.
The drama came from an incompetent or inexperienced teacher and a student that was begging for attention. It could have easily been defused by a good teacher.
I agree. The context of the class lesson should not be deviated from. That is why I said "purposeful distraction". For example what if a "pink hat" movement talked a bunch of sponges into bringing in pink P hats into class? Where does it end? I am good with shutting it all down. That truly is the only way to be fair and equal to ALL the students.
The drama came from an incompetent or inexperienced teacher and a student that was begging for attention. It could have easily been defused by a good teacher.
Nothing happens in a "vacuum" in these kind of things.
The student wore the hat and surreptitiously recorded the result for a reason. He anticipated the reaction. Why?
I am firm in my opinion that there was predicate to his action. That was a classroom rife with political ideology long before "the hat".
My opinion is confirmed both by the point in the video where another student shouts "pink isn't racist", and the demeanor and eventual evacuation of the entire class by the teacher.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-27-2018).]
Nothing happens in a "vacuum" in these kind of things.
The student wore the hat and surreptitiously recorded the result for a reason. He anticipated the reaction. Why?
I am firm in my opinion that there was predicate to his action. That was a classroom rife with political ideology long before "the hat".
My opinion is confirmed both by the point in the video where another student shouts "pink isn't racist", and the demeanor and eventual evacuation of the entire class by the teacher.
I can't argue against your point because again, I agree.....for the most part. I disagree with the student because he attempted to make a stand against what he saw as a bias environment. His failure was his inability to convey a coherent message. He broke down to a dummy level and lost the momentum that the class had been subject to. He was no better than the occupy Wall Street movement, blm movement and antifia idiots. He blended right in with them. Basically, he did more damage to Trump than good. But that is beside the point, the classroom is no place for this display of political or socia discourse. And a hat may be "just a hat" but the symbolism or message displayed by the "hat" IS the distraction that does not belong in the classroom.
The way I see it, the student is just that, a student. If he is misguided (and I haven’t seen enough to make that determination), he should be able to count on the adult in the room to provide guidance. Unfortunately, there is no adult in the room.
The way I see it, the student is just that, a student. If he is misguided (and I haven’t seen enough to make that determination), he should be able to count on the adult in the room to provide guidance. Unfortunately, there is no adult in the room.
Seems that I agree with you also. This brings me to the "why did he do it?" junction. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of kids in school echo the opinions of adults that influence them or tell them what to do. VERY FEW kids are talented enough to successfully challenge mature adults in a public forum.
What if the school has a policy against hats in class?
A public school with such a policy runs a very real risk today of violating any number of laws, but most especially the 1st Amendment.
That possible violation might be on 2 very basic elements of the 1st Amendment, Freedom of expression and Freedom of religion.
Since you posed a "what if" question, I'll also pose some;
What if the school policy against hats also includes Jewish yarmulkas? What if it includes a muslim hijab or a kufi? How about a Sikkh turban?
The 14th Amendment also comes into play here with equal protection under the law.
The government, (public schools), cannot grant rights to a special class of citizens and deprive another of the same, so the public school has a real legal dilemma. What law do they violate?
As ludicrous as the students quip in the video may seem about what if he considered "the hat" to be a religious expression is actually very well stated. Possibly more than he realizes. I tend to think that he does realize though, as he makes a quick reference to "people wearing spaghetti strainers on their heads" which is a reference to the mock "religion" of "Pastafarianism" which is used to make a "point" sometimes about religious headwear.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-28-2018).]
What if the school has a policy against hats in class?
If the instructor were in charge of his classroom, he would have enforced that policy up front, instead of mumbling some nonsense about bending the rules.
As an instructor of adults, I learned quickly that I had to take charge. It was my classroom and everyone understood that. An instructor that is not in charge is not respected and thus ineffective.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 11-28-2018).]
If the instructor were in charge of his classroom, he would have enforced that policy up front, instead of mumbling some nonsense about bending the rules.
As an instructor of adults, I learned quickly that I had to take charge. It was my classroom and everyone understood that. An instructor that is not in charge is not respected and thus ineffective.
We agree. This is the very point I have made from my first post in this thread.
If the instructor were in charge of his classroom, he would have enforced that policy up front, instead of mumbling some nonsense about bending the rules.
As an instructor of adults, I learned quickly that I had to take charge. It was my classroom and everyone understood that. An instructor that is not in charge is not respected and thus ineffective.
I think that the mumbling about "bending the rules" may well have been part of the predicate from long before in that classroom that eventually led up to "the hat".
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-28-2018).]
A public school with such a policy runs a very real risk today of violating any number of laws, .....
Dress codes exist in California. I have no idea what other States do, but here dress code is an every day reality in schools both public and private. So my question stands as a real word scenario: "what if the school has a dress code that forbids hats in class?" I don't know where this video was taken or what grade, the context of the video is no hats in class. The fact that it was a MAGA hat is secondary. IF, that school has a no hat policy, should the kid get away with wearing a hat? The answer is clearly NO. I do not encourage kids to be law beakers or policy brakers or social deviants, and I hope that you don't either.
There are a lot of things that exist in The People's Republic of California that don't exist elsewhere, particularly with regard to government managing individual's lives in direct contravention to the United States Constitution.
There is also a very large and fundamental difference between a "dress code" and a civil or criminal law, so your admonition against being a "law beaker" (sic) or even a "social deviant" (really?), is odd to me.
I would be remiss if I didn't also address your mention of "policy breakers'.
Policies are usually private rules or agreements that do not have the force or color of law, accordingly, "policies" often have a tendency to actually contravene or violate black letter law.
Where a "policy", especially in a government setting, is in conflict with rights, freedoms and the law, I most certainly do encourage people to challenge it, sometimes even if that means breaking the policy. As with anything, the individual has to weigh the possible consequences of his acts with the desired eventual outcome.
As a Conservative, I am VERY much about the government staying OUT of people's lives and being as small and impotent as practically and safely manageable.
"The Hat" is really a "nothingburger" as the saying goes. It is only the "evacuation" of the classroom that lent it the novelty to make it "news"
It simply should have been ignored.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-28-2018).]
There are a lot of things that exist in The People's Republic of California that don't exist elsewhere, particularly with regard to government managing individual's lives in direct contravention to the United States Constitution.
There is also a very large and fundamental difference between a "dress code" and a civil or criminal law, so your admonition against being a "law beaker" (sic) or even a "social deviant" (really?), is odd to me.
I would be remiss if I didn't also address your mention of "policy breakers'.
Policies are usually private rules or agreements that do not have the force or color of law, accordingly, "policies" often have a tendency to actually contravene or violate black letter law.
Where a "policy", especially in a government setting, is in conflict with rights, freedoms and the law, I most certainly do encourage people to challenge it, sometimes even if that means breaking the policy. As with anything, the individual has to weigh the possible consequences of his acts with the desired eventual outcome.
As a Conservative, I am VERY much about the government staying OUT of people's lives and being as small and impotent as practically and safely manageable.
"The Hat" is really a "nothingburger" as the saying goes. It is only the "evacuation" of the classroom that lent it the novelty to make it "news"
It simply should have been ignored.
You did not answer the question.
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Where a "policy", especially in a government setting, is in conflict with rights, freedoms and the law, I most certainly do encourage people to challenge it, sometimes even if that means breaking the policy. As with anything, the individual has to weigh the possible consequences of his acts with the desired eventual outcome.
Unless this is saying "he did the right thing by braking the school rules and NOT removing his hat." If this is the case, how do you justify a challenge of school policy (a challenge that is impossible for him to win from a classroom seat. Arguing with an employee that did not write the policy and clearly has no authority to change the policy) at the expense of the other students loss of teaching time? I am definitely with you on challenging stupid rules and policy, but I like the dress codes in Schools. This just isn't a hill worth dieing for. The correct thing to do to challenge the policy would have been comply, then file an official complaint to the administration. The kid was wrong in this case and looked like a fool. Just like the teacher.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-28-2018).]
Seems that I agree with you also. This brings me to the "why did he do it?" junction. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of kids in school echo the opinions of adults that influence them or tell them what to do. VERY FEW kids are talented enough to successfully challenge mature adults in a public forum.
I'm pretty sure the goal was to poke fun at the teacher. Kids won't respect a weak authority figure. And the teacher was acting like a soyboy.
Most (if not all) schools have dress codes. Some even have school uniforms. I'm not sure if the kid in the video was violating a dress code or not. If he was, then shame on him (and shame on the teacher for not explicitly saying so).
I'm pretty sure the goal was to poke fun at the teacher. Kids won't respect a weak authority figure. And the teacher was acting like a soyboy.
Most (if not all) schools have dress codes. Some even have school uniforms. I'm not sure if the kid in the video was violating a dress code or not. If he was, then shame on him (and shame on the teacher for not explicitly saying so).
Somewhere around here is a conversation we had about the student that was suspended for not joining a Gun Control Walkout at school. That's how the Headlines sold it. Many here bought it, just as printed, and argued it right in this very forum.
The truth was (which I pointed out and was soundly thrashed), it wasn't that he refused to join the walkout that got him suspended. It was that he refused to leave the classroom, despite the fact that students had the choice to either join the walkout, or go to the Library for study hall. Safety protocol does not allow a student to be in a classroom alone. That's a lawsuit just waiting to happen.
All that being said, the reason he was suspended was even simpler then all that; He failed to follow the direction (rules) of the people put in charge of directing him. Put in charge of that by his parents. To keep him as safe as possible.
That doesn't mean he had no choices;
1. Join the walkout. 2. Go to the designated study hall. 3. Go home.
He chose instead to refuse to leave the classroom. He decided HE was going to make the rules. No one wants kids running the schools any more then they already are. Schools aren't for doing what you want, they're for doing what you're told.
How is this hat any different?
If the school rule is "No Hats", then that's that. But if he was singled out because of what the hat said, then we have to move to the next step; Are there rules against displaying "Words or pictures of an offensive nature"? Is there a list or guidelines approved by the school board? Who decides what words or pictures are offensive? The Teacher? The Principle? The Parents? The Kid?
The fact is, I think the teacher wrongly let his personal feelings leak through into his job. And the kid seized that. And pounced, albeit with limited intellectual experience. So the odds were even.
But predictably, once the kid had the Teacher down on his level, they canceled each other out.
Reactionary, at best.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-28-2018).]
Somewhere around here is a conversation we had about the student that was suspended for not joining a Gun Control Walkout at school. That's how the Headlines sold it. Many here bought it, just as printed, and argued it right in this very forum.
The truth was (which I pointed out and was soundly thrashed), it wasn't that he refused to join the walkout that got him suspended. It was that he refused to leave the classroom, despite the fact that students had the choice to either join the walkout, or go to the Library for study hall. Safety protocol does not allow a student to be in a classroom alone. That's a lawsuit just waiting to happen.
All that being said, the reason he was suspended was even simpler then all that; He failed to follow the direction (rules) of the people put in charge of directing him. Put in charge of that by his parents. To keep him as safe as possible.
That doesn't mean he had no choices;
1. Join the walkout. 2. Go to the designated study hall. 3. Go home.
He chose instead to refuse to leave the classroom. He decided HE was going to make the rules. No one wants kids running the schools any more then they already are. Schools aren't for doing what you want, they're for doing what you're told.
How is this hat any different?
If the school rule is "No Hats", then that's that. But if he was singled out because of what the hat said, then we have to move to the next step; Are there rules against displaying "Words or pictures of an offensive nature"? Is there a list or guidelines approved by the school board? Who decides what words or pictures are offensive? The Teacher? The Principle? The Parents? The Kid?
The fact is, I think the teacher wrongly let his personal feelings leak through into his job. And the kid seized that. And pounced, albeit with limited intellectual experience. So the odds were even.
But predictably, once the kid had the Teacher down on his level, they canceled each other out.
Reactionary, at best. Click to show
Could you look up that thread for me? Us? I spent a minute or two looking with nothing coming up?
These are children. Not adults. That is a teacher. Not a child.
The fact is, I think the teacher wrongly let his personal feelings leak through into his job. And the kid seized that. And pounced, albeit with limited intellectual experience. So the odds were even.
That was my assessment also, based on the limited information. Unfortunately, none of us will probably ever know the full context of the situation.
It seems to be human nature to want to pick a "good guy" and a "bad guy" whenever there's a conflict. But the distinction isn't always so clear. Usually, both parties involved *think* they're doing the right thing. But in reality, both are at least partially wrong. I think the Dunning-Kruger Effect may be involved.
That was my assessment also, based on the limited information. Unfortunately, none of us will probably ever know the full context of the situation.
It seems to be human nature to want to pick a "good guy" and a "bad guy" whenever there's a conflict. But the distinction isn't always so clear. Usually, both parties involved *think* they're doing the right thing. But in reality, both are at least partially wrong. I think the Dunning-Kruger Effect may be involved.
This might just be the most accurate assessment in the entire thread.
Get a watch before it is removed from Youtube.
)
