In the past few years, I've not really paid much attention to my credit scores. They're pretty decent, but just not something I've really bothered with. I bought a second house though, and also took out a 0% interest loan for countertops from Home Depot, and noticed that my scores all dropped. Only since all the credit card companies and banks have started offering free credit scores, have I bothered to look at them. I hope you guys don't mind me posting them. Some are great, others are not as great. The question I have though is why there is such a wild difference between the various credit scores I'm seeing? There's 9 different FICO scores from what I can tell, and then something also called VantageScore… ?
I'm not really concerned or worried, but just kind of annoyed. I've looked and it seems like the FICO 5 has a much more long-term look to it, while the VantageScore 3.0 has a much shorter window. I guess VantageScore was created at the behest of the Millennial lobby since it only looks at credit for the greater part of just 2 years. Obviously, since I just took out a loan for the countertops and just bought a second house all within the past year and a half, my scores there are going to be the worst.
I don't have any credit card debt, except for the 0% interest that I have for the kitchen countertops, but I'll pay that off before it converts to accruing interest. I always make payments on time and such (more than required for mortgage, etc.)... and again, don't carry a balance on anything... why are there so many different scores, and... which ones do banks actually look at?
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 11-11-2018).]
BIG differences between the three scores are typically due to errors on the report that you can dispute, or new data only being reported to one and not the other two.
Credit Karma lays out the different factors and how they affect the scores very well.
Short version is, have a perfect payment history with no accounts in bad standing or late payments, utilize 5-9% of your available credit (with no sinlge card or account more than 9% of it's available balance), and have a long 9+ year average account age, with a diverse credit history (cards, student loans, car payments, mortgages, etc.).
They basically want you to have a variety of debt regularly. My score could be higher if I still had student loans open, but I'm happy to take the 10-20 point hit having paid them off. After a while the average age of the other accounts will increase and offset no longer having them.
Not carrying a balance is hurting your scores. I carry a balance by creating the illusion of paying interest, doing 0% balance transfers and carrying a balance for the majority of the period before which interest would then be applied. There are typically fees associated with the transfers, but they're usually minimal if you don't pick a bad deal.
I have given up on the entire credit industry altogether. frack 'em, they are more trouble than they are worth. In a nutshell, I have taken my life back to how I lived in the 90's and its cash-only, If I don't have the cash then I wait until I do.
I have been dealing with 2 "problems" for over a year, both old-old cell phone issues. BOTH dating back to 2010-2012. (Keep in mind that limitations here in Ontario on so-called debts is 2 years, after that creditors have no recourse)
The 1st one is a cell-enabled netbook I had in 2011. I sold the contract to a guy being deployed to Afghanistan, we went into the phone company store together and signed all the contracts to assign the take-over to him. All good, he is happy and I am rid of it since my job got me one on their nickel. I guess he ended up defaulting, because flash forward to late 2017 and I start getting harassing calls from a collection agency that they want some stupid amount of money to settle this account. Ummm, NO. GFY the contract was sold and I am NOT a guarantor on it so KMA. AND you are 6 years past limitations.
2nd one is a phone I had assigned (from the same company). It was THEIR account but they listed individual users the phones were assigned to. Again, no guarantor signature or anything, just listed as user of that phone. May of 2012 I am OUTTA here, azzholes. Here is your phone and computer back. Don't call me. Well, you cant since I don't have the phone anymore . Early 2017 I start getting calls about this phone, again for a stupid amount of money. And again, LONG past limitations.
What happened, for whatever reason, is these 2 contracts got dumped into a pile somewhere at some point in time, and bought up by a scam-artist collections agency (probably for 5 cents or something). The VERY 1st thing they do is put a collections mark on your credit report, THEN tack an extra $400 or so onto these old, worthless, invalid accounts and start harassing the hell out of you via phone and text. And they keep putting collections notes on the credit report. They WILL NOT provide any paperwork or proof of anything and there are ONLY 2 possible resolutions. #1 is to be held hostage to their scam and pay them what they demand, or #2 is to sue them (Inter-provincial since they operate from Quebec and B.C.) which costs a LARGE fortune to undo the damage they have done with little hope of cost recovery from the courts.
I have done a BUNCH of research on this collections company, and the internet is FULL of horror stories about them the past few years. What they are doing is playing jurisdictional games and using a loophole in Ontario's laws to high-pressure people into being extorted. They way it works in Ontario is limitations is 2 years UNLESS you acknowledge the dept. So, they destroy your credit rating, then try to get you on the phone and high-pressure bully you into giving your "legal name", birth date and admitting the account is yours --all being recorded. If they can get you to do THAT (and thousands are caught off-guard, and under stress so cave) then the account becomes collectible again for another 2 years. (the lesson is...DON'T talk to them, DON'T admit anything, DON'T give out any information...and keep your mouth shut). Simply blocking their number doesn't work since they seem to have an unlimited supply of them. I am up to over 40 blocked numbers on my phone.
They know damn well very few are going to go to the expense of an inter-provincial lawsuit to stop them, and even if you do and win then you still have the up-front costs of hiring a sheriff to enforce the judgement. Its nothing but an extortion scam, and all it needs to get going is your name to be SOMEHOW connected to that account, not necessarily the signatory or guarantor, and your credit rating is pooched up the pooch-chute.
You have a choice...Pay the extortion or watch your mortgage and credit card interest rates go thru the roof....Or just live without the credit cards and mortgage. And your car insurance. Up here credit score is considered into your insurance rate.
Which all tells me the entire "Credit Rating" system is broken beyond repair and SO wide open to abuse and scams that it is useless. It has become nothing more than a mechanism to hold consumers hostage and extort money OR ELSE you wont be able to live. It's our version of China's "Social Credit" system.
If you recall the savings-and-loan fiasco, where contracts were bundled and sold, split and sold, then re-bundled and re-sold until nobody knew or could prove who owed or owned what to who, its the exact same sheet all over again. Its NOT very hard to end up being hounded for somebody else's problem simply because you were somehow connected at one time.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 11-11-2018).]
Not carrying a balance is hurting your scores. I carry a balance by creating the illusion of paying interest, doing 0% balance transfers and carrying a balance for the majority of the period before which interest would then be applied. There are typically fees associated with the transfers, but they're usually minimal if you don't pick a bad deal.
Damn... that is ridiculous, almost seems like an intentional plot to keep me under the thumb of potential creditors! hahah.
Crap, I just failed miserably at Credit Karma. I bombed during the verification process. The mortgage on my second house changed hands twice in the span of the first 6 months (kept getting sold to another lender) and it didn't list the current, and none of the credit card companies they listed were accounts I had during the time that I know I opened them. So, it expects me to e-mail a picture of my drivers license and some other crap. No way I'm doing that **** ... sigh.
Problem is that the banks over the past 5-6 years have changed hands so many times... haha... oh well. I'll check out Experian now. Thanks!
Damn... that is ridiculous, almost seems like an intentional plot to keep me under the thumb of potential creditors! hahah.
That's EXACTLY what it is. The only reason I'm bothering is I want to buy a house next year and get the best rates without getting completely screwed. Once I have the first one, the second, third, etc. will be considerably easier to get.
That's EXACTLY what it is. The only reason I'm bothering is I want to buy a house next year and get the best rates without getting completely screwed. Once I have the first one, the second, third, etc. will be considerably easier to get.
Look into private lenders. Not sure about your side of the river, but here you might pay 1/2% more or something using them, with 10% of the bullkaka.
I once had the absolute intention of trying to get a *negative* credit score.
Debt is tantamount to slavery in my opinion and a "credit score" is simply a number that indicates how obedient a debt slave you are.
Over 20 years ago we made a financial decision to STOP using credit. We still keep a couple of credit cards in case of "emergency" while travelling, (rental cars), or other things, but all of our purchases are made with cash, or by use of a debit / credit card that pulls directly from a checking account. That includes vehicles and houses.
We now have more money in our bank accounts than at any time in our lives and those accounts continue to grow.
That said, there IS a place for borrowing money, and that is only if the money you borrow will generate more income than the service of the debt. In other words, using OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, to make more money for yourself.
Going into debt for a depreciating asset isn't smart, It's just the very worst level of slavery.
Credit scores dont like ANY changes in your credit...good or bad. Your score goes down if you pay off credit cards. Also no credit gives you a low score. They want to see you get loans and credit, and see how well you follow up on those commitments.
I once had the absolute intention of trying to get a *negative* credit score.
Debt is tantamount to slavery in my opinion and a "credit score" is simply a number that indicates how obedient a debt slave you are.
Over 20 years ago we made a financial decision to STOP using credit. We still keep a couple of credit cards in case of "emergency" while travelling, (rental cars), or other things, but all of our purchases are made with cash, or by use of a debit / credit card that pulls directly from a checking account. That includes vehicles and houses.
We now have more money in our bank accounts than at any time in our lives and those accounts continue to grow.
That said, there IS a place for borrowing money, and that is only if the money you borrow will generate more income than the service of the debt. In other words, using OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, to make more money for yourself.
Going into debt for a depreciating asset isn't smart, It's just the very worst level of slavery.
Do you consider mortgages in your philosophy as "good debt?" It does kind of make money for you... at least, most of the time, a home builds equity. It has for me...
I'd only caution about using a DEBIT card for deductions. Those are much harder to protect against for fraud...
You don't necessarily need to carry a balance, but just use the card or account to make any purchase about twice a year. A hamburger meal is sufficient. Closing a credit card can hurt your score. Sometimes closing an account can hurt you. When I closed some of the accounts my late wife had, though they had a zero balance, the score went down. The credit you have available to you vs. the percentage you owe affects your score. If you have $500K available but are only using $50K is better than having $100K and using $50K. Each of the two scores I monitor are different, but each state that their score may be different than other scores due to the different factors and who reports to them.
I recently experienced a 12 point drop because my bank's billpay changed the date because my autopay date fell on a weekend. The payment arrived at Bank of America just 1 day after the bill's due date. I got hit by BOA for an extra $47 in interest and it showed up as a late payment on the credit report.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Do you consider mortgages in your philosophy as "good debt?" It does kind of make money for you... at least, most of the time, a home builds equity. It has for me...
I'd only caution about using a DEBIT card for deductions. Those are much harder to protect against for fraud...
I don't consider any mortgage debt "good" unless it immediately places you in a positive equity situation. Buying real estate and hoping that it eventually appreciates enough to offset the debt is foolish risk in my opinion.
NEVER, EVER use your real estate as a "piggy bank" via HELOCs or other nonsense unless you repay it immediately AND it also results in PROFIT.
I maintain a specific checking account linked to my debit / credit cards to draw from, into which I regularly transfer funds from other accounts as needed. This limits risk exposure. Additionally, I do have fraud /theft protection for both debit and credit transactions and I just recently had occasion to use it to recoup a $2,500 charge for services I paid for but were not rendered.
I also STOPPED doing business with commercial banks 20 years ago. I stick with member credit unions. It saves me a tremendous amount in fees and charges every year and I get excellent interest income on every account, plus % back on card purchases.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-13-2018).]
The FICO scores on thay you see on credit card statements I have heard refered to as Fake-O scores...more or less an estimate.
I could care less what my credit sore is, it doesn't matter to me. I do use one credit card regularly but that is mroe for the rewards....4% back on gas 3% back on restaurants...etc. (it is a Costco Citi Visa). I pay the card off every month and the rewards are real cash back once a year and not some BS air miles that can only be used with heavy restrictions. One thing I purposely do not do is put gas on a debit card, if you swipe you debit card the pump gets authorization for an extra large amount up front.. lest say $150 but you only buy $25 worth of gas, you actually have a hold or reserve for $150 on our accounts that you can't see of a few days until the actual pump transaction posts to you debit account, depending on how you manage your accounts this could lead to overdraws that you don't know about and aren't planning.
While the zero percent offers are nice I HATE them and aviod them like the plague. I setup my life to pay as few bills as possible, becuase I don't have time to manage them. Monthly I have the mortgage, cell phoen bill and one cc. If I could I woudl set the cell phone to pay on the cc but I can't. The less bills (number of bills, not total debt amount) I have the less potential for a missed payment.
From my understanding factors which go into a FICO are how many lines of credit you have, recnet new accounts opened or closed can hurt your score. Of you open accounts not only do they look at payment history, but also look at the overall % ratio of credit you are using. Even if you pay off you card monthly if you spend 1k a month and have a 3k limit that shows that you are using 33% of you credit. Percent of credit utilization too high or low can hurt you score....to maximize you want a good cycle to credit utilization.
As for mortgages...I recommend local credit unions. My most recent mortgage I did with a CU in my area, their rate was good 3.25% but the key for me that this CU retains all mortgaes they write. While I have mortgages in the past through various banks and brokers they were always sold/flipped, which like you I did not like. The CU was competitive from a cost basis, but they were more cautious with the underwriting process. The other bonus is that by going with the CU I support local jobs, there are/were seven folks in the mortgage department at the CU (three underwriters, and four servcing agents) which who worked in an office 15 miles from where I live. Now I don't have to worry about my loan being sold, I get good service, and support local jobs!
I don't consider any mortgage debt "good" unless it immediately places you in a positive equity situation. Buying real estate and hoping that it eventually appreciates enough to offset the debt is foolish risk in my opinion.
My first house, I could barely afford. It really went down like this...
(Wife) "I want to live in a nice neighborhood." (Me) "What about this house? It's really affordable?" (Wife) "No!"
So we ended up buying the cheapest house in the most expensive neighborhood we could afford. That seems to be the common "responsible" trend now, but we didn't know any better, it's just all that we could afford. Turned out to really work well for us. The first 10 years I owned it, I didn't do anything to it. The house was pretty worn out. We kept it clean, and I did landscaping as best as I knew how, but really didn't know. Then, I moved, and rented it out, and the renters did 10k in damages. When I moved back, I taught myself how to work on homes, so I totally renovated the house. In the ~15 years I've owned it, it's worth twice what I paid. But again, bad decision initially, and there was even a point at which we were underwater by several thousand, but we stuck with it.
With my second home, I went into it with that mindset. Bought a home here in Texas in the dead of winter. Bought a home that had a solid foundation, no termites, in the best neighborhood I could afford. The home really was kind of a wreck. All original, really needed TLC. I was gung-ho and re-did about 80% of the home, but that last 20% has kind of been dragged along as I've been busy. Need to finish the guest bathroom, master bathroom, and get the house painted, and then do landscaping. Also want to rebuild the garage doors (they're solid wood), and then the home will be done. Everything else is brand new.
quote
Originally posted by randye:
NEVER, EVER use your real estate as a "piggy bank" via HELOCs or other nonsense unless you repay it immediately AND it also results in PROFIT.
Randy, I totally did this, and... other than the "lesson learned," aspect of it... I regret every minute of it. We paid that off, and refinanced with a better interest rate several years ago. But man... I was so dumb. I literally used it like a savings account, except I bought things with it rather than put money into it. Thankfully, most of what I paid for went right back into the house. IE: new garage door, a room addition, storm shutters (before I knew how to do all that stuff myself). But, I will NEVER do a HELOC again.
quote
Originally posted by Hank is Here:
My thoughts...
Yep... the mortgage on my house here in Texas has already changed hands 2 times (three separate people) in the span of less than 2 years. Granted, the change was all in the time-frame of the first 3-4 months... but just crazy.
And yeah, did the 0% thing too... wishing I hadn't because the end of term is coming soon, and I'm going to need to take money out of savings to pay it off before I start accruing interest. This home has a lot of equity in it now since I've done the vast majority of the work myself. I'm hoping when I sell it in a few years (if I do), that it'll give me a big pay-out that I can use to pay down my house in Florida, if not outright pay it off... would be pretty sweet.
Yep... the mortgage on my house here in Texas has already changed hands 2 times (three separate people) in the span of less than 2 years. Granted, the change was all in the time-frame of the first 3-4 months... but just crazy.
Be VERY careful about that assumption.
Who you pay your monthly payment to is NOT usually the same entity that owns your NOTE.
You should also be aware that your NOTE and MORTGAGE are two separate and distinct things.
Mortgage Loan SERVICERS, such as Nationstar, Ocwen, Saxon and many others are simply "bill collectors". They DO NOT OWN either your promissory note or your mortgage.
Many of the servicing companies are also separate business entities of nationally chartered commercial banks.
Examples are "SunTrust Mortgage, Inc.", "HSBC Mortgage Services", "Citigroup, Inc. (Citi Mortgage / Citi Residential)", and other separate servicer business entities of BoA, Wells Fargo, and a host of others.
Uninformed folks may *assume* it's "the bank" but it actually and legally isn't and they still do not own notes or mortgages in the majority of cases.
ALL mortgage servicers are required by Federal Law to send you what are commonly known as "Hello / Goodbye" letters that inform you in advance of a change of who you make your payments to.
The VAST majority of real estate promissory loan notes are still dumped onto the "derivative securities market" in REITs and REMICs , in other words, "sold to Wall Street investors".
From there, they are very rarely, if ever, sold or traded around due to IRS regulations that control tax exempt status of SPVs like the aforementioned REITs and REMICs.
Unlike the "Hello / Goodbye" letters I mentioned previously, these "loan investors" are NOT required to notify you whenever your actual promissory note is sold or traded.
Down the road this can, and frequently does, cause a host of problems which I'll be happy to discuss in PM.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-13-2018).]
My brother-in-law just got a 4.5% 30yr fixed mortgage for 460k and he only put down 15%, his credit was 701 and he has over 30k in unsecured debt... his income is all over the place as he's a business owner and seasonally does well and poor at off season times etc..
I'm not sure how important credit scores even are after seeing that. I was treated like **** with perfect credit and almost no debt when I purchased my first home, ended up accepting a mortgage that was nearly a full percent higher than the national average.. I only did that because I knew the property would quadruple in value (has already doubled).
Who you pay your monthly payment to is NOT usually the same entity that owns your NOTE.
You should also be aware that your NOTE and MORTGAGE are two separate and distinct things.
Mortgage Loan SERVICERS, such as Nationstar, Ocwen, Saxon and many others are simply "bill collectors". They DO NOT OWN either your promissory note or your mortgage.
Many of the servicing companies are also separate business entities of nationally chartered commercial banks.
Examples are "SunTrust Mortgage, Inc.", "HSBC Mortgage Services", "Citigroup, Inc. (Citi Mortgage / Citi Residential)", and other separate servicer business entities of BoA, Wells Fargo, and a host of others.
Uninformed folks may *assume* it's "the bank" but it actually and legally isn't and they still do not own notes or mortgages in the majority of cases.
ALL mortgage servicers are required by Federal Law to send you what are commonly known as "Hello / Goodbye" letters that inform you in advance of a change of who you make your payments to.
The VAST majority of real estate promissory loan notes are still dumped onto the "derivative securities market" in REITs and REMICs , in other words, "sold to Wall Street investors".
From there, they are very rarely, if ever, sold or traded around due to IRS regulations that control tax exempt status of SPVs like the aforementioned REITs and REMICs.
Unlike the "Hello / Goodbye" letters I mentioned previously, these "loan investors" are NOT required to notify you whenever your actual promissory note is sold or traded.
Down the road this can, and frequently does, cause a host of problems which I'll be happy to discuss in PM.
I think I have a hunch, but I am very interested to know how I can find out. I assume the problems are if a bank goes under and doesn't do the proper processing, the "note holder" may then assume no payments have been made, and then attempt to take the house. This would likely require me or whomever to go through a lengthy legal process to let everyone know that in fact, the mortgage HAS been paid regularly.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I think I have a hunch, but I am very interested to know how I can find out. I assume the problems are if a bank goes under and doesn't do the proper processing, the "note holder" may then assume no payments have been made, and then attempt to take the house. This would likely require me or whomever to go through a lengthy legal process to let everyone know that in fact, the mortgage HAS been paid regularly.
What do I need to know Obi-wan!
You raise a lot of good questions and points. I probably can't cover all of them in detail, but I'll try as best possible.
1. You used the term "note holder". That has very specific and limited meaning in a legal sense. A "note holder" is generally defined as someone that has physical possession of a promissory note and may also have the ability, (granted by the owner of the note), to enforce that note, (demand payment or take legal action to secure payment on behalf of the owner of the note). That authority can only be granted via a POA, (Power Of Attorney) from the actual beneficial owner. Loan servicers generally have this limited authority. (I will not discuss "limited" power of attorney at this point, but suffice to say that the limited POA they are given generally does NOT include the authority to sell or transfer the note or mortgage or modify the terms of either instrument. )
This is different from the beneficial owner of the note who is the party that actually paid for the note and therefore owns it until it is repaid as agreed. In other words, the party that actually *legally benefits* financially from their ownership of a promissory note or other financial instrument. The beneficial owner is also the ONLY party that is legally entitled to sell or transfer the note.
Real estate promissory notes are considered, under the United States UCC, (Uniform Commercial Code), to be negotiable, which simply means that they can be bought and sold. The big problem since early 2000 is how this is done, particularly with respect to the Wall Street derivatives market that I mentioned in an earlier post.
Under the UCC rules, notes are supposed to be bought and sold with a specific endorsement to the new owner written ON the actual note by the seller. This is the exact same thing as you or I would do in endorsing a check before depositing it or cashing it. It shows the actual chain of beneficial interest of the instrument.
Wall Street and the banks changed all that back in early 2000's when the first housing bubble got started. What they did is start a practice of what is called "Endorsement in blank" which means that instead of a specific endorsement which would clearly spell out "From Bob To Joe" and "From Joe To Sam", the "To" part was left blank which legally makes the promissory note "bearer paper" the same as "bearer bonds" or cash .
You can probably begin to see the huge problem with this. We no longer have a documented "chain of beneficial interest" of your note. Anyone in physical possession of the piece of paper can now claim to be the owner, even if they never paid a penny for it. Even a thief can claim to be the owner of the note.
Since the vast majority of notes were allegedly sold into various REIT and REMIC TRUSTS, this becomes even more problematic when so many of those Trusts are now dead, (closed).
I am assisting with legal research on a case where the homeowner is being sued for foreclosure by a REMIC Trust that closed, (dissolved by legal proclamation) back in 2011, but "miraculously" filed the lawsuit from the grave in 2015. The homeowner also claims to have made every payment to the loan servicer. Deutsche Bank claims to be the "Trustee" authorized to bring suit on behalf of the long dead Trust, but a Trustee cannot maintain a legal action on behalf of a closed / dead Trust.This case is not an anomaly. It is, unfortunately, almost commonplace now.
Nearly all of these foreclosure cases are actually being brought by the loan servicers who have been collecting monthly payments for Trusts that have been dead for years and many that never legally existed to begin with. They hire a law firm and bring suit against the homeowner using the name of a chartered "national bank" which allows these lawsuits to cross state lines. In most cases the named "national bank trustee" has no knowledge that their name is being used by the loan servicers in these lawsuits.
So what do you do?
For a start I recommend that you immediately write what is known as a QWR, (Qualified Written Request), and mail it USPS First Class, RETURN RECEIPT to whoever you presently make your payments to.
In that QWR you demand to know who the owner of your note is. The servicer is required by Federal Law to disclose that to you.
Once you have that information you need to verify that the named "note owner" actually exists.
You should also be keeping meticulous financial records of your own showing every payment you have ever made along with cancelled checks or bank statements showing the withdrawals payable to the loan servicer.
I haven't even begun to discuss how servicing rights are bought and sold between loan servicer companies. These rights are very lucrative and also create even MORE problems with regard to payment histories and notes / mortgages.
WHY is all of this a concern to someone that has made every payment and isn't being sued for foreclosure?
1. Because ONLY the legal owner of your note can issue you a legal PAID satisfaction on your note once you have paid it off.
2. Because ONLY the actual owner of your note can legally release the mortgage lien on the property.
3. Because NONE of your payments may have been going to the legal owner of your note, but instead being kept by the loan servicer or even passed on to someone else. You have no way to know unless you file a lawsuit and demand discovery of their books and records showing where the money you paid to them went. If the name of the note owner they give you as a result of a QWR proves to be an actual existing entity, that's a good start but is no guarantee that you have been provided with truthful information by the servicer. At least at that point you have some documentation to help defend yourself with later if necessary.
If you get the idea that I'm saying that loan servicers are not to be trusted in any way......you are 100% correct.
4. Because the official title and land records of your property may be totally fictitious and worthless now due to fraudulent assignment(s) of the mortgage which can negatively affect a title and lien search if / when you sell or transfer the property.
5. Because the actual legal owner of your note may pop up months or years after you think you have paid off the note and show that he hasn't been paid a penny, which will put you in a very disadvantageous legal position.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-14-2018).]
My brother-in-law just got a 4.5% 30yr fixed mortgage for 460k and he only put down 15%, his credit was 701 and he has over 30k in unsecured debt... his income is all over the place as he's a business owner and seasonally does well and poor at off season times etc..
I'm not sure how important credit scores even are after seeing that. I was treated like **** with perfect credit and almost no debt when I purchased my first home, ended up accepting a mortgage that was nearly a full percent higher than the national average.. I only did that because I knew the property would quadruple in value (has already doubled).
One fact that I have learned over the years is that, just like water is known as the "universal solvent", MONEY - CASH is the "universal lubricant".
You say that your BiL put down 15% on $460k which is $69,000. I'm guessing that he did not empty his bank accounts of all funds to do that. I'm guessing that he has sufficient liquid (and illiquid) capital in reserve.
I have personally witnessed many times where the "universal lubricant" has greased the skids to do things that a credit score cannot, which only serves to reinforce my opinion that a credit score is nothing more than a numeric rating of how obedient a debt slave is.
The old saying that "Cash is King" holds true.
If you concentrate on building up cash reserves, credit (and credit scores) become more and more irrelevant. At a certain point, people will beg to loan you money, and you will be surprised at the level of cash in your own accounts that will take to make happen. It's not as much as you might think.
The same thing applies to a steady stream of long term guaranteed income, such as an annuity.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-14-2018).]
For a start I recommend that you immediately write what is known as a QWR, (Qualified Written Request), and mail it USPS First Class, RETURN RECEIPT to whoever you presently make your payments to.
In that QWR you demand to know who the owner of your note is. The servicer is required by Federal Law to disclose that to you.
Once you have that information you need to verify that the named "note owner" actually exists.
You should also be keeping meticulous financial records of your own showing every payment you have ever made along with cancelled checks or bank statements showing the withdrawals payable to the loan servicer.
Thanks Randy, I really appreciate your detailed and thorough response. I am going to do EXACTLY what you just said for both of my mortgages.
With both homes, I bought them from old ladies who died, or more specifically, from the estate. It's just a co-incidence, I didn't go looking for that. But that probably introduces more potential concerns. I do keep really good records.
I'm going to request those for both homes during the holidays when I have a bit more time. I'll post back what I get from the banks (obviously not the personal information, but essentially what they tell me).
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Thanks Randy, I really appreciate your detailed and thorough response. I am going to do EXACTLY what you just said for both of my mortgages.
With both homes, I bought them from old ladies who died, or more specifically, from the estate. It's just a co-incidence, I didn't go looking for that. But that probably introduces more potential concerns. I do keep really good records.
I'm going to request those for both homes during the holidays when I have a bit more time. I'll post back what I get from the banks (obviously not the personal information, but essentially what they tell me).
You are most welcome.
I don't claim to be an expert in any of this, but I like to think I've learned a lot over the years from my own mistakes and successes.
By the way, if either of those 2 property purchases from "old ladies who died" or "estates" involved any kind of a "Life Trust" that potentially presents a whole other set of issues that we should discuss.
. Early 2017 I start getting calls about this phone, again for a stupid amount of money. And again, LONG past limitations.
