I’ve become addicted to buying watches, which is totally non-Money Mustache. It started a month ago when I decided to replace all the batteries in all my dead watches. Normally I would guy buy a new watch at The Villages every time I’d visit my parents. The watch would last a year, and then die. I never paid more than $20 bucks tops, for the best cheap-**** Chinese watch. So, I blew like $50 bucks on batteries, and got 12 of them working. I only had maybe 1 or 2 GOOD watches (~$100 or so value). One that my parents got me when I turned 21, and one that my wife got me a few years ago.
I wanted to get a new band for the one my parents got me, and then I discovered something...
In India, there is a “watch racket” if you will... totally legal, nothing wrong. During the late 70s to early 90s, there was a CRAZE all throughout India where-by in their budding economy, the people there were interesting in buying luxury watches. As it stands, there was a very common set of “mechanics” for watches, Swiss designed, manufactured by Japan. Japan “Motive” is what it was called. The specific version is ST-96, which was made in 1978-1993. They’re precision wind-up watches. 17 Jewels, 21 Jewels, etc. Jewels as in, they literally use rubies as the bearings. Anyway, these mechanicals found themselves in nearly all watches during the time. Citizen, Seiko, Henri Sandoz, HMT, Wenger, whatever.
So, they’ve made an industry in India (there’s maybe 3 or 4 of them), that buy up these watches in bulk, repair them... sometimes even replacing the external case, putting on new watch straps, and then blowing them out for anywhere from 10-20 bucks. The people repairing these watches are extremely skilled, but very low-wage workers. Some of them work out of the old HMT watch factory in Mumbahi, which was shut down years ago.
Anyway, first couple of watches I got, I was convinced it was going to be some kind of fake / forgery... some bull **** watch. But I opened it up, and literally they were all slightly different with authentic internals for the make/brand. The ST-96 mechanicals are the same, but other stuff was totally legitimate, including the watch face, watch back, and in some cases the outside case. So I’m literally getting restored vintage watches that were once ~$200-400 watches for cheap. I’ve bought 10 so far... so I have to figure if I add up all the costs, I’ve maybe spent $200 bucks. Kind of sucks... but couldn’t help myself. Anyway... thought I’d share so I can share my addiction.
Just to re-iterate, they basically call them "FRANKENWATCHES," because while the insides are real, they're often repaired with parts from other watches, and the cases will often be different. You'll always get a new band, and the bands are usually pretty cheap too. But the internals, faces, etc... are all real vintage watches that have been repaired and refurbished. So when you get a Henri Sandoz or a Citizen, they are legitimate watches. They buy up nasty and beat-up watches, just repair them, and put them in a new case.
Here's an example of one that runs nicely, from India. A Swiss-made Henri Sandoz that's been put into a new case, and repaired.
Looks like you have too much time on your hands...
Sorry, had to.
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Originally posted by olejoedad:
So, if a person views a video of a personal clock, does that qualify as a swatch?
Somebody needs to WATCH this merry BAND. On the FACE of it, it appears they may be WOUND A LITTLE TIGHT. Only TIME will tell, but I wouldn't want to TICK them off, so I won't TOCK about it.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: .....they're often repaired with parts from other watches,.....
So, some might have a second hand second hand?
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 11-04-2018).]
All this but no link to where we can look to see if anything catches our eye? I know I won't find what I'm looking for specifically, a watch running counterclockwise, but that citizen, 3rd watch pic down, looks pretty nice. I'd go for one like that, not running backwards be dammed!
1 - Go to eBay 2 - Type in "Vintage Watch" in the Search bar 3 - Select Mens 4 - Select "Under $35" 5 - Order by "Ending Soonest"
… and you'll find a lot of refurbished ones that will pop up.
When you say third one? The third picture is an HMT Jubilee, made in India. It's vintage too... probably from the early 1980s and put in a new case.
The black Citizen is pretty nice, that's what I'm wearing now. It actually gains 4 minutes every 24/hrs, which kind of sucks... but lol, it was $12.95. I can always take it to a watch shop to have it tuned and adjusted.
The last picture (gold and black) is a really nice Citizen... I removed that band, and I'm waiting for a new / better band to come in the mail. But that's a really nice one.
What makes that one different than the others is that it's an "Automatic" wind. So... basically, it keeps itself wound simply by wearing it and going about your business. If you let it sit though... it'll wind down and will need to be wound up. But a single wind, and then wear it every day, and you'll never need to wind it. It keeps really good time too.
And this is an older / refurbished Roamer that was manufactured in India (Japan ST-96 / Swiss designed, manufactured in India). New case, rehabbed internals, new band. Still... would have been a $200 watch back in its day... don't know what the original case would have looked like though.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-27-2019).]
removed image cause it was too big... When new, this was basically a $350-375 watch back in the early 80s. There's a few things you'll notice about it:
1 - Slightly newer / refurbished case... from the same era, from Citizen but likely not original to the rest of the watch. 2 - Totally original unrestored face, but totally new minute / hour / second arms. 3 - Face has been "trimmed down" to fit a slightly smaller case, you can tell the indicators have been moved further in, as "NEW MASTER" is cut off. 4 - Mechanics are all in good shape, but obviously a couple of parts have been changed out... new gears, etc. 5 - New / cheap aftermarket band.
To a "real" watch collector, someone who makes a big deal about such things, would be appalled by this watch because it's not all original. But as far as I'm concerned, this is an early 84 Porsche 944 with a rebuilt 89 Porsche 944 S2 motor installed, and bumpers from a 1986 Porsche 924. At the end of the day, you're still getting a running / driving Porsche 944 that runs well.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-27-2019).]
I've got a few, probably worth very little in the scheme of things. But what I've really wanted since I was a teenager is the Rolex with the leather band just like this one.
I don't know what it is about em, I just really like the style.
My favorite current watch is one that I bought for Dad when I was a kid. It's not worth much, probably nothing, but he was into Star Trek and I happened upon it at a Radio Shack. After he died Mom gave it back to me, still in the original metal case and just like it was when I gave it to him in the early 90's.
I've got a few, probably worth very little in the scheme of things. But what I've really wanted since I was a teenager is the Rolex with the leather band just like this one.
I don't know what it is about em, I just really like the style.
My favorite current watch is one that I bought for Dad when I was a kid. It's not worth much, probably nothing, but he was into Star Trek and I happened upon it at a Radio Shack. After he died Mom gave it back to me, still in the original metal case and just like it was when I gave it to him in the early 90's.
Brad
Yeah, that's a nice watch. The submariner is like one of the most copied watches of all time. There's at least a hundred cheap / fake watches out there that look just like that, but obviously don't have the quality and precision.
I have a fake Rolex, haha... I always used to buy one every time I'd go to Manhattan.
I know we all have our thing (or things). But watches aren't mine. Whats the attraction? Is it just the simple "machine ness" of them? Their compact size? Is it like having a lot of shoes to choose from for that day? Maybe affordabiolity as compared to things that shoot or go fast. A form of Art I suppose as many things are.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-05-2018).]
I know we all have our thing (or things). But watches aren't mine. Whats the attraction? Is it just the simple "machine ness" of them? Their compact size? Is it like having a lot of shoes to choose from for that day? Maybe affordabiolity as compared to things that shoot or go fast. A form of Art I suppose as many things are.
Well... I can't speak for others, but for me... these particular watches are fascinating because of the engineering.
The Citizen "Automatic" one there has 21 gemstones in it... the gemstones are literally fashioned into donuts and used as bearings. Using rubies as bearings... ?! That's crazy. The reason they do it though is because it wears much slower than metal. But it's unbelievable to me the precision of such a small device.
Kind of a lame video, but it shows the precision of these watches:
I know a lot of people buy big fancy watches to show off how much money they have, but to me, it's more the artwork and the engineering aspect of it. Truth be told, I don't think these smaller watches are really all that fashionable today. It seems the bigger and bulkier the watch, the more desirable it is.
I'm just so amazed that the Japanese and the Swiss would mass-produce watches that had so many moving parts. Even the expensive NEW watches today... you open them up and they're so "basic." Plastic, a quartz crystal canister, and the usual little battery. Even the really nice watches all have the same crap internals as the cheap watches. There's really no difference anymore.
I don't consider it a "problem"...unless you're talking about not having room or funds enough to buy all that you'd like to! I've been on the hunt for one of these.....REASONABLY priced, like the prices you mentioned in your original post....like $100 or less.
Should you ever run across one, I'd be interested.
If it makes you smile when you look your collection over...don't pay attention to anybody that says "why".....or that it's a waste of money...or any of the other negatives that may target you for your "obsession". I understand....I have waaay too many shoes....and guitars....and guns....and cars....and watches! Can't possibly use them all.....or can I......hmmmm....sure fun trying!
Here's a really cool video for the high-end Seikos… I can only imagine what those watches cost new... probably ~$300-400.
The thing is, none of this is necessary. It's old technology, if not insanely precise. A new cheap Chinese watch that uses a hearing aid battery and a step motor keeps better time, but the engineering is far more utilitarian.
For $17.99 and free shipping, I'm happy with a 17 Jewel vintage Henri Sandoz! I'm not paying $400... but just like the old Porsche 944 I used to own, I'm just as happy rocking a second-hand fine piece of machinery.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well... I can't speak for others, but for me... these particular watches are fascinating because of the engineering.
The Citizen "Automatic" one there has 21 gemstones in it... the gemstones are literally fashioned into donuts and used as bearings. Using rubies as bearings... ?! That's crazy. The reason they do it though is because it wears much slower than metal. But it's unbelievable to me the precision of such a small device.
I know a lot of people buy big fancy watches to show off how much money they have, but to me, it's more the artwork and the engineering aspect of it. Truth be told, I don't think these smaller watches are really all that fashionable today. It seems the bigger and bulkier the watch, the more desirable it is.
I'm just so amazed that the Japanese and the Swiss would mass-produce watches that had so many moving parts. Even the expensive NEW watches today... you open them up and they're so "basic." Plastic, a quartz crystal canister, and the usual little battery. Even the really nice watches all have the same crap internals as the cheap watches. There's really no difference anymore.
I used to collect watches, I can't afford to anymore though. At one point I had watches from Tissot, Ball, Raymond Weil, Hamilton, Glycin, Oris and Rolex. The only watches I have left are a Casio G-Shock, Luminox and my daily worn Seiko Coutura.
So, thought I'd resurface this thread since I posted it a few months ago.
I've taken the hobby a step forward and I've started teaching myself how to fix them. I bought all the tools... a basic set of GOOD tools can be had for around $150 for everything you need including all the tweezers, screw drivers, pullers, you name it. I've educated myself on all the terms... IE: crystal refers to the lens, crown is the knob, stem is the piece that connects the knob to the "movement" which is the engine, basically. There's a balancing wheel, etc. I've also taught myself how to rebuild these watches down to a certain point. … the goal of course is really an "oil change" to get everything working smoothly and timed properly. They do require oiling / servicing every 10 years or so... though the really good ones will often last 40 without needing anything... but it's not good for them.
Crap... hit enter too quickly...
Anyway, was going to say... check out some of these pictures of the watches apart. I've fixed quite a few over the past month... definitely liking this hobby.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-27-2019).]
