More liberals limiting free speech while claiming that they are not limiting speech?
I am not arguing with anyone here. Only pointing out that it often snows when it gets cold outside.
Still waiting for one of our "moral" lefties to show up at my door. So far only behind the scenes drudgery.
I too would like to see more unity, but that will never happen. This is not Utopia. Or Wakanda for that matter. This is actual life passing us by. I have never walked in your shoes.
For God's sake, NO ONE IS TRYING TO LIMIT FREE SPEECH.
All a few of us are saying is you can disagree with another member WITHOUT BEING AN AS**HOLE.
It is simply beyond reason why this thread has become so contentious.
But please, continue. Since this is "MY" post, started by Willie, I'm simply not going to stop.
So, there's only three ways this goes:
1 - Grow up and realize you need to stop posting in this thread. 2 - Continue your unhinged posts displaying your intolerance and the inability to see how you are damaging your own reputations. 3 - Cliff P moves this to the Trash Can
The point of conversation is resolution of differences.
Conversation is not always to resolve differences.
quote
I was raised with this tenant...." I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it with my life". ...
I was raised much differently. So were many here. Few if any of us came from the same "household". I very much agree with you on rights.
I cannot stress enough that I wish no others harm. Not in the least. Just leave me alone and all will be well. I have never reached out in a harmful manner to any soul from this forum, but have received nothing of the sorts in return. For that, I will NOT choose my words based upon what others require. Members on the left went beyond this forum to touch me. Snowflakes were hurt by words, and am not in charge of the weather.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 03-09-2018).]
Confrontation can be done in a civil manner, if the point of the confrontation is resolution.
I was raised with this tenant...." I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it with my life".
You are all free to devolve into shouting matches and name-calling. But be aware that you will not find resolution, just fleeting self-satisfaction.
The point of conversation is resolution of differences.
Well stated!! But, I will add, that often, total resolution is not always possible, but acceptable resolution is. Accept that there are differences and move on.
Originally posted by maryjane: Accept that there are differences and move on.
And there is one of the major problems. Libs won't accept anything and keep shoving their "differences" down everyone elses throats. Some people just get tired of that sh!t.
Originally posted by Tony Kania: I was raised much differently. So were many here. Few if any of us came from the same "household". I very much agree with you on rights.
I cannot stress enough that I wish no others harm. Not in the least. Just leave me alone and all will be well. I have never reached out in a harmful manner to any soul from this forum, but have received nothing of the sorts in return. For that, I will NOT choose my words based upon what others require. Members on the left went beyond this forum to touch me. Snowflakes were hurt by words, and am not in charge of the weather.
I choose my words based on what I require, not what others require. My standards are the same for everyone, because they are standards to which I hold myself accountable.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 03-09-2018).]
Well stated!! But, I will add, that often, total resolution is not always possible, but acceptable resolution is. Accept that there are differences and move on.
Thank you. Total resolution is seldom possible, but conversation is the path to an acceptable resolution in many cases. Personal attacks and name calling are the preamble to physical altercation. Fortunately we are in a virtual space, I wonder what the conversational tone would be like if we were all sitting around a table.
And there is one of the major problems. Libs won't accept anything and keep shoving their "differences" down everyone elses throats. Some people just get tired of that sh!t.
Agreed. Conversation and compromise has led this world to, and beyond the brink throughout history. Still, it's always best to try to communicate before you cut your opponent off at the knees.
I choose my words based on what I require, not what others require. My standards are the same for everyone, because they are standards to which I hold myself accountable.
As do I.
And, without even an attempt at being confrontational, my morals are quite solid. This internet shat means little in comparison to what my daily life is actually like. I hold doors open. I think no different from you.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 03-09-2018).]
And there is one of the major problems. Libs won't accept anything and keep shoving their "differences" down everyone elses throats. Some people just get tired of that sh!t.
Yep, but that doesn't mean we have to respond in kind--tho we often do..or worse. It's evolved now, to the point that even stating a different opinion than that which the majority may hold, is grounds for 'anything goes' in form of name calling and personal denigration..and to what end? It's obvious, from statements made in this thread, than some are offended not by what is said/political opinions stated, but by the fact that someone 'from the other side" even said it to begin with and from what I have read, the vast majority of the time, the OP simply seeks to see a discussion of the subject matter..nothing else. The 1st part of that sentence, is the classic definition of abridgment of freedom of speech but some on the right believe that freedom of speech only applies to themselves. I suspect, for every member of the left that has left OT of their own accord because of the derisive content, 5-6 (or more) members of the right have as well and for the same reasons even tho the derisive comments weren't directed at them. When our behavior drives readers and contributors away from the board, IMO, the board's overall quality suffers.
The 1st amendment of the Constitution actually applies only to the govt, it's legislative body and it's agencies, but if we the board membership, thru the rating system and what we say, see ourselves as and act as congress and court, then it befalls us to act in the same limited way as the US Congress is required to under the Constitution. I am a 'devout' conservative. Believe in: Less govt. Fewer govt controls. Right to life. The right to worship and believe as I see fit. Fewer taxes. Fewer entitlement programs. The Right to Bear Arms. States rights. Strong National Defense and a willingness to use it. Good, fair and impartial justice and law enforcement. Free market. A minimum of debt.
The list goes on, but that doesn't mean I disdain those who believe differently.
We've come full circle to the original query posted by Willie as to my whereabouts for the preceding two weeks.
To reiterate, I had decided to leave O/T because of a different thread.
In that thread I called for a reduction in derision and name calling because there are plenty of middle of the road Democrats who presently have no party and are ripe for the picking to move over into the reconstituted Republican party if only some of our own radicals would stop calling them Democraps.
I received a lot of negative pushback from the rabid radicals and quite honestly no support from anyone. Well, one good friend who called me and said not to left the bastards get me down and to walk away from that thread.
In the end, I walked away from O/T.
No drama, no announcement, no goodbyes. Sadly, simply not worth the effort.
I figured that was that until Wille posted his query ( which I'm sure didn't turn out the way he planned). When I responded, right on Que the radicals came after me again. This time embarrassing themselves by bickering with someone who was calling for less bickering.
The lack of self-awareness is biblical.
So, it's about time they got called out for their behavior and I'm not going to let this go.
I guarantee that unless Cliff trashes it, I'll be the last to comment in this thread.
You best let go radicals, this snowflake is going to eat your lunch.
So, now we are "radicals"? It is hard to defend yourself Ray. The constant name calling in each of your posts says it all.
You really think highly of yourself for being a cat owner.
I think that many are taking all of this too seriously.
"Blah, blah, blah, I know everything about another member because I read a part of one of their posts!" What I am alluding to here is that we are all different. While Ray wants to change me, I do not want to change him. For ****s sake people, I do not want to change any of you.
I will not be silenced from fear. Nor will I be told how to speak, or when to speak. Yeah, that one will keep me prodding the snowflakes every time.
Edit: And hah! My reason for returning is the hypocrisy present. Bathe in it's soothing after glow...
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 03-09-2018).]
I just scrolled all the way through these four pages, to see if Cliff Pennock had come in anywhere with any kind of message.
Not at all. I didn't scroll over one from Cliff Pennock without realizing it? I don't think so.
I'm glad this place isn't called "rinselberg's Fiero forum."
Earlier I saw where screen name randye quoted my previous message and Replied with "rinselberg uses 900+ words to say that he hates screen name randye." Or just about those words.
I like my "crazy" a lot better than screen name randye's "crazy".
If there is a non-fatal variant of the Rabies virus, I think screen name randye must have it. He comes to this forum constantly foaming at the mouth. Or keyboard, to be more literal about it.
I think he may have delivered a few messages since this Topic got going, that referenced me in some of the other current Topics, that were not fully loaded with his customary amount of vitriol and hate speech. Kind of like a pitcher "taking something off" or "pulling a string." A Knucle Curveball or Circle Changeup of middle school level mud-slinging, instead of the Four Seam Fastball.
But, as I scrolled all the way to the current end of this discussion, I have the impression that not much has changed inside the mind of screen name randye, in terms of what Pennock's Fiero Forum Totally O/T section represents to him.
I'd like to see evidence that I just scrolled too rapidly and didn't pick up on any change, or any kind of Rethink, on the part of screen name randye and also on some other members who seem to be lined up in that same very Deplorable way.
Thoughtful discussion seldom results in name-calling among mature adults.
If it does result in personal insults, it is not a discussion, or one or more of the participants don't qualify as mature or adult.
Civility and civilization are closely related.
While I know what you mean, sometimes name calling is the result of being bullied yourself. If your having a discussion and there is someone with a differing opinion and they start by saying you are moron or dont know what your talking about, you calling them that or something back is a knee jerk reaction. Sure its better to let it go, but some people insist on keeping pushing. We have had 'that' person follows you around in every thread carrying on the same bullying. Its just like its great to just figure out how to solve a racial issue with smiling faces. But like with say ISIS and western countries, there is no middle ground. ISIS only understands you when you kill them, and the result is they kill and you kill back. The only resolution is eliminate one...or it just keeps going. I dont see 'name calling' as a sign of immaturity at all. Trump calls Kim 'rocket man', so what...isnt that factual ? An example from here was a post I made months ago...and a few members insisted on following me around in every thread I posted to bring it up again...thats called goading . It wasnt going to change my original post and certainly sounded childish on its own to keep beating on the dead horse. Were they being immature ?...or was I for responding every time ?
I understand what you are saying. Goading, as DJT has with so many, is a tool to begin negotiations. Name calling is a form of bullying, brought on by frustration, lack of imagination or mastery of language, lack of desire to reach closure, or just plain mean intentions. You can call a person a moron, or you can ask them if their position is not well thought out. It all about what one is trying to accomplish.....
Roger, the goading only happened because you wouldn't admit that speeding at 2.65 times the legal limit was reckless.
We finally gave up not because we were accused of goading or trolling. We gave up when it was clear that you actually took pride in your actions and made excuse after excuse why it was OK for you to do it.
It's similar with Randye in this thread.
He keeps proclaiming he couldn't care less what I think, yet he keeps posting responses implying I'm the one with a problem. Me being the guy who is asking for more civility on O/T. It doesn't get any less self-aware than that.
You both suffer from a severe lack of self awareness.
All dues respect, 2.5, this is not the first thread where some members came after me for calling for an improvement in forum decorum.
It might not seem obvious to you but I've attempted to respond to their continued attacks without invective by focusing as much as possible on the problem, not the person. That's not always easy when discussing behavior as the two are intertwined but as best I could I stayed away from personally denigrating them. For the record, pointing out someone's poor behavior and hypocrisy is not a personal attack.
One look at the pearl clutching meme presented by a few of the radicals tells you that is not the path they wish to follow. They've repeatedly gone down the path of personal attacks. Of course, being who they are and knowing what we know about them, they didn't really have another option. There's not a lot of there, there. Just ideology.
So forgive me for repeating, it is evident where the problem is.
Divisive, INTOLERANT, ideologue Conservatives who have infected O/T.
Sadly, as indicated by this thread, the problem isn't going away.
.
It is hard to defend yourself Ray. The constant name calling in each of your posts says it all. 
