Sure you want to do that with our terrorist loving, pot smoking, drama teacher and 2x college drop out that is running our country? lol
...plus don't forget that since he took over, people don't want to invest in our country much which has caused the Canadian dollar to drop to close to US$0.70
Sure you want to do that with our terrorist loving, pot smoking, drama teacher and 2x college drop out that is running our country? lol
...plus don't forget that since he took over, people don't want to invest in our country much which has caused the Canadian dollar to drop to close to US$0.70
That is just a perk of the job, triggering snowflakes.
Oh, its not JUST the minimum wage. A whole slew of changes came into effect on the 1st.
Temps have to be treated like regular staff, increased entitled time-off, commission staff now get the GREATER OF the commission or minimum wage, but no less than minimum. Its no basically next to impossible to hire an "independent contractor" without the being considered staff (think Uber drivers ect)...
AND, this is all on top of the changes they made to the construction industry labor laws 2 years ago or so...
Velcome to Da Workers Republic ov Ontario, comrade !
Oh, its not JUST the minimum wage. A whole slew of changes came into effect on the 1st.
Temps have to be treated like regular staff, increased entitled time-off, commission staff now get the GREATER OF the commission or minimum wage, but no less than minimum. Its no basically next to impossible to hire an "independent contractor" without the being considered staff (think Uber drivers ect)...
AND, this is all on top of the changes they made to the construction industry labor laws 2 years ago or so...
Velcome to Da Workers Republic ov Ontario, comrade !
Just going to be honest here... it's kind of obvious.
With all those regulations and increased taxes... coupled with the decreased regulations here in the US and now decreased taxes. Do not be surprised if you see manufacturing and other businesses move across the border.
Sorry MEM. If you need a sponsor, I'm happy to help you become a US citizen. Just be sure to bring a Timmies with you.
The governments want to collect taxes, and the banks want loan income (and savings accounts they can use to generate loans under fractal banking rules).....and if everybody is only making a buck an hour, nobody is taxing or loaning much of anything.
Because of greed, sometimes workers are greedy and sometimes companies are. There was a reason for child labor laws, pre teens were in coal mines to help pay the family bills, because corporations artificially drove wages down with the help of corrupt politicians.
What I would like to see enshrined in law, is severe penalties (serious jail time) for "dishonest" corporations and thier treatment of staff......actually, the criminal and civil laws ARE already on the books, they just need to be enforced.
Lemme tell you guys about the worst one I ever deal with.
Up front, it seemed (seemed) a straight-forward deal. They paid $14/hr (about 1.5x minimum wage back then) They supply the truck, a gas credit card, needed tools, and a cell-phone for business use. Hours are 8-5. All I need to bring is tech skills, diagnostic and critical-thinking skills, and the ability to toss around 160-pound hunks of equipment. Add in some merchandising experience so I can set the equipment up in such a way that it gets noticed and actually generates some sales.
Pretty sweet deal, right ?...for 40x4x14= $2240/mo...and LOTS of time to generate side-income on weekends or evenings.
YEH, OK....within a week, that 8-5 has become 8-9 (and extra 4 hrs a day that they dont wanna pay)...so now that 40 hrs is 60 or 50% more work for zero more money. All of a sudden 40x14= $560/wk has become 560/60= $9.30/hr.
OK, they had been planning to move the office from a 15-minute commute to a 40-minute drive for over 2 years, but failed to disclose that. So, me weekly fuel bill goes from $20 to $60...meaning my in-pocket has gone from $560-20=$540 down to 560-60= $500...for 60 hrs. Down to $500/60= $8.33/hr
After a few months those cell phones ? Yeh they got taken away when the contract with the carrier ran out, and all of a sudden we are using our own phones, at an average of $200/mo or $50/wk. So now its down to $450 for 60hrs= $750/hr. Nope, you aint getting THAT back unless you sign a 3-year contract with the companies carrier, at $300+/mo...**** them.
That company truck and gas card ? Yeh, well it spends about 20% of its time in the shop or given to a jr guy making less, so you use your own car (and gas money) and get reimbursed SOMETIME in the future at .25 cents/km (the car costs .50 cents to run, per Revenue Canada).. Average that (a huge territory) at $500/mo, or 125/week. Nobody bothered to disclose that either.
So now take-home is down to 500-125= $375 for 60hrs, or $6.25/hr.
You lik food ? guess what, you are on the road and under that kind of schedule with a life of your own, cooking meals and packing lunches kind of goes away after a few months simply for lack of time. 50% or better of your meals become fast-food take out, the infamous $5 lunch. (when you can pack one for $2). That's 3 bucks difference x 2 meals a day, times 15 days a month. Another 90 bucks. So the take-home pay is now $375-90= $285...or $4.75/hr.....AND, forget all about that side-income you used to have, there are only so many hours in a week.
Quite the difference between $14.00 and $4.75 isnt there ?
The moral of the post...full-disclosure laws are needed, existing labour and criminal laws need to be enforced, and to be perfectly honest, if companies like this were forced into full disclosure, they would be out of business PDQ because they wouldnt be able to hire anybody. They ONLY manage to get staff by hiding the facts, using 1/2-truths, and outright lying to prospective employees to get them on board.....and the fact is, it seems they cant. I keep an eye on the wanted ads still (even though I refuse to work in the food industry anymore) and the average seems to be them looking for a new guy about every 60 days or so. HUH, it TAKES a year just to learn all the curves those machines can throw at you.
Its an old-fashioned concept called "honesty"
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-05-2018).]
Originally posted by dennis_6: Because of greed, sometimes workers are greedy and sometimes companies are. There was a reason for child labor laws, pre teens were in coal mines to help pay the family bills, because corporations artificially drove wages down with the help of corrupt politicians.
Very surprised by your response, especially since your declaration about being a strict Constitutionalist. I would have thought your response would have been more along the lines of calling for enactment of laws banning such actions and then enforcing them, not by artificially setting wages.
Like TH above McD and many others hind behind "Franchises set all pay and policies." And Not just when Min Wage is push around the room.
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Hopefully it leads to fast food places using kiosks and stores with more self check-out lanes.
Already happening w/o Min Wage BS. Home Depot and others have put Kiosk and/or Self Checkout for years now. Buy online and go to store to pickup the order. Same day? Too slow. You can pickup often within minutes to a hour or two. McD and fast food operations are late to this game. McD et al claim won't layoff workers when kiosk are installed but hidden that they won't hire more when current people quit or fired "for other reasons."
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: YEH, OK....within a week, that 8-5 has become 8-9 (and extra 4 hrs a day that they dont wanna pay)...so now that 40 hrs is 60 or 50% more work for zero more money. All of a sudden 40x14= $560/wk has become 560/60= $9.30/hr.
Called Salary Exempt in the US. Most employers quote $X per week and often ignore a week is 50 to 80+ hours. Like Many friends has been offered "management" spots at BK, McD, Tbell, etc, franchises and if dumb to take them quickly burn out and quit or fired. Some start as normal Hourly workers and can sees "managers" often do not last long and why and when offered to them said "no thanks." (Thinking: No chance in hell to I want to be a "manager" here.) And When you see stupid crap at ____ store on YT, Local News and so on then you here ___ co "Terminated the people involved" often the "manager" or two get fired too. Never mind they worked 60+ hours already and are trying to do paper work etc at the time to stop it. Worse many "mangers" get "Terminated With Cause" meaning State Unemployment Insurance won't pay. Real management that often owns several to many store in a region may get a slap on the wrist but most times little to nothing is done to them.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Thats one of the BIG differences between the USA and here, Ogre. Here, it is not only illegal to require staff to work more than 8hrs (or a "standard" day) or 48 hrs a week, it is illegal to ALLOW them too.
There are exemptions for different careers (such as medical, emergency services, agriculture, construction, ect) as well as special exemptions that can be applied for a received for up to 60 hrs in certain circumstances. Those are all in place because they make sense or accommodate seasonality ect.....BUT, for the general dude just working a "normal" job the limits are there and considered a protect right (the right to be left the hell alone and not be bothered)
Now get this. At $14/hr x an 8 hr day it cost the company $112/day to have a staff member (or 224/ day for 2)....the fine for going past that 8hr limit used to be $300/day (its higher now, just not sure how much)...MEANING, its $188/day CHEAPER to just stay legal.
I dont get it. If these companies and managers are SUPPOSED to be finding ways to maximize profits, dont it make sense to save the $288, or if the extra man-hours are really needed, save the extra $76 and have a second staff member ?)
$76/day x 5 days/week x a standard 52-week year = $19,760 of "free" money just for remaining legal. Seems to me these kinds of people aint all that smart, and just like throwing money away paying fines (voluntary taxes) to the government.....then they sit and cry that business taxes are too high. Gee, last time I looked stupid was supposed to hurt.
Another one with the temp agencies that got popular here during the 07-09 crash was the salary bait-and-switch. I never fell for that one, but knew a few guys that did.
They would hire people for real crap jobs for $XX/hr, then when the 1st pay came it was only for min wage, and they would tell staff "Oh, sorry, we made a clerical error in the job posting". Of COURSE the "error" continued, and nobody stayed past the 1st pay cycle--but they didnt care, there were PLENTY of unemployed desperate for jobs....By the Criminal Code of Canada, doing that kind of thing deliberately is called "Fraud" and punishable by jail time. By civil law, the agency IS liable for the amount in the original posting....but who is going to get into a years-long deep-pockets game over under $1,000 ?.....so, they got away with it until things improved somewhat and the available labor pool shrank, and people could start being a little more picky about who they worked for again. A few of the agencies that were doing that crap are no longer in business because they couldnt find anybody to work for them....it was a short-lived scam for rough times.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-06-2018).]
What I would like to see enshrined in law, is severe penalties (serious jail time) for "dishonest" corporations and thier treatment of staff......actually, the criminal and civil laws ARE already on the books, they just need to be enforced.
Lemme tell you guys about the worst one I ever deal with.
Up front, it seemed (seemed) a straight-forward deal. They paid $14/hr (about 1.5x minimum wage back then) They supply the truck, a gas credit card, needed tools, and a cell-phone for business use. Hours are 8-5. All I need to bring is tech skills, diagnostic and critical-thinking skills, and the ability to toss around 160-pound hunks of equipment. Add in some merchandising experience so I can set the equipment up in such a way that it gets noticed and actually generates some sales.
Pretty sweet deal, right ?...for 40x4x14= $2240/mo...and LOTS of time to generate side-income on weekends or evenings.
YEH, OK....within a week, that 8-5 has become 8-9 (and extra 4 hrs a day that they dont wanna pay)...so now that 40 hrs is 60 or 50% more work for zero more money. All of a sudden 40x14= $560/wk has become 560/60= $9.30/hr.
OK, they had been planning to move the office from a 15-minute commute to a 40-minute drive for over 2 years, but failed to disclose that. So, me weekly fuel bill goes from $20 to $60...meaning my in-pocket has gone from $560-20=$540 down to 560-60= $500...for 60 hrs. Down to $500/60= $8.33/hr
After a few months those cell phones ? Yeh they got taken away when the contract with the carrier ran out, and all of a sudden we are using our own phones, at an average of $200/mo or $50/wk. So now its down to $450 for 60hrs= $750/hr. Nope, you aint getting THAT back unless you sign a 3-year contract with the companies carrier, at $300+/mo...**** them.
That company truck and gas card ? Yeh, well it spends about 20% of its time in the shop or given to a jr guy making less, so you use your own car (and gas money) and get reimbursed SOMETIME in the future at .25 cents/km (the car costs .50 cents to run, per Revenue Canada).. Average that (a huge territory) at $500/mo, or 125/week. Nobody bothered to disclose that either.
So now take-home is down to 500-125= $375 for 60hrs, or $6.25/hr.
You lik food ? guess what, you are on the road and under that kind of schedule with a life of your own, cooking meals and packing lunches kind of goes away after a few months simply for lack of time. 50% or better of your meals become fast-food take out, the infamous $5 lunch. (when you can pack one for $2). That's 3 bucks difference x 2 meals a day, times 15 days a month. Another 90 bucks. So the take-home pay is now $375-90= $285...or $4.75/hr.....AND, forget all about that side-income you used to have, there are only so many hours in a week.
Quite the difference between $14.00 and $4.75 isnt there ?
The moral of the post...full-disclosure laws are needed, existing labour and criminal laws need to be enforced, and to be perfectly honest, if companies like this were forced into full disclosure, they would be out of business PDQ because they wouldnt be able to hire anybody. They ONLY manage to get staff by hiding the facts, using 1/2-truths, and outright lying to prospective employees to get them on board.....and the fact is, it seems they cant. I keep an eye on the wanted ads still (even though I refuse to work in the food industry anymore) and the average seems to be them looking for a new guy about every 60 days or so. HUH, it TAKES a year just to learn all the curves those machines can throw at you.
Very surprised by your response, especially since your declaration about being a strict Constitutionalist. I would have thought your response would have been more along the lines of calling for enactment of laws banning such actions and then enforcing them, not by artificially setting wages.
This situation is far more complex than you are giving credit to. Americans have a higher cost of living than the chinese and mexicans. By cost of living I mean the basic required for life. Also a far higher than a kiosk or a robot. Labor wages and soon to be all wages aside from executives will be zero. However, that means only executives will be able to buy anything. Making a product in China and selling it back here is every nit as wrong as $15.00 a hr min wage. So yes, something has to be done.
It is an awful law. Especially in current times. The minimum wage should be the minimum you'll work for. Raising it doesn't get better employees, it does get fewer though. More expensive things and the like. I am with Todd and started minimum wage ($5.15) as I am sure most all of us did. I sacked groceries, I know he was McD. I made easily a few bucks an hour in tips. I made way more than this mowing laws previously, but this was steady income that eventually led to a career. I've long since left, but the learned a lot while there.
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:
What I would like to see enshrined in law, is severe penalties (serious jail time) for "dishonest" corporations and thier treatment of staff......actually, the criminal and civil laws ARE already on the books, they just need to be enforced.
Lemme tell you guys about the worst one I ever deal with.
Up front, it seemed (seemed) a straight-forward deal. They paid $14/hr (about 1.5x minimum wage back then) They supply the truck, a gas credit card, needed tools, and a cell-phone for business use. Hours are 8-5. All I need to bring is tech skills, diagnostic and critical-thinking skills, and the ability to toss around 160-pound hunks of equipment. Add in some merchandising experience so I can set the equipment up in such a way that it gets noticed and actually generates some sales.
Pretty sweet deal, right ?...for 40x4x14= $2240/mo...and LOTS of time to generate side-income on weekends or evenings.
YEH, OK....within a week, that 8-5 has become 8-9 (and extra 4 hrs a day that they dont wanna pay)...so now that 40 hrs is 60 or 50% more work for zero more money. All of a sudden 40x14= $560/wk has become 560/60= $9.30/hr.
OK, they had been planning to move the office from a 15-minute commute to a 40-minute drive for over 2 years, but failed to disclose that. So, me weekly fuel bill goes from $20 to $60...meaning my in-pocket has gone from $560-20=$540 down to 560-60= $500...for 60 hrs. Down to $500/60= $8.33/hr
After a few months those cell phones ? Yeh they got taken away when the contract with the carrier ran out, and all of a sudden we are using our own phones, at an average of $200/mo or $50/wk. So now its down to $450 for 60hrs= $750/hr. Nope, you aint getting THAT back unless you sign a 3-year contract with the companies carrier, at $300+/mo...**** them.
That company truck and gas card ? Yeh, well it spends about 20% of its time in the shop or given to a jr guy making less, so you use your own car (and gas money) and get reimbursed SOMETIME in the future at .25 cents/km (the car costs .50 cents to run, per Revenue Canada).. Average that (a huge territory) at $500/mo, or 125/week. Nobody bothered to disclose that either.
So now take-home is down to 500-125= $375 for 60hrs, or $6.25/hr.
You lik food ? guess what, you are on the road and under that kind of schedule with a life of your own, cooking meals and packing lunches kind of goes away after a few months simply for lack of time. 50% or better of your meals become fast-food take out, the infamous $5 lunch. (when you can pack one for $2). That's 3 bucks difference x 2 meals a day, times 15 days a month. Another 90 bucks. So the take-home pay is now $375-90= $285...or $4.75/hr.....AND, forget all about that side-income you used to have, there are only so many hours in a week.
Quite the difference between $14.00 and $4.75 isnt there ?
The moral of the post...full-disclosure laws are needed, existing labour and criminal laws need to be enforced, and to be perfectly honest, if companies like this were forced into full disclosure, they would be out of business PDQ because they wouldnt be able to hire anybody. They ONLY manage to get staff by hiding the facts, using 1/2-truths, and outright lying to prospective employees to get them on board.....and the fact is, it seems they cant. I keep an eye on the wanted ads still (even though I refuse to work in the food industry anymore) and the average seems to be them looking for a new guy about every 60 days or so. HUH, it TAKES a year just to learn all the curves those machines can throw at you.
Its an old-fashioned concept called "honesty"
To clarify: It's always someone else's fault with you then, correct? I'm not going to dig through all your post to illustrate this point, but it seems a common theme.
I think this $15 an hour thing is a ridiculous feel good law that people who actually have money set into place and really keeps the poor...poor. That is the goal I believe.
This situation is far more complex than you are giving credit to. Americans have a higher cost of living than the chinese and mexicans. By cost of living I mean the basic required for life. Also a far higher than a kiosk or a robot. Labor wages and soon to be all wages aside from executives will be zero. However, that means only executives will be able to buy anything. Making a product in China and selling it back here is every nit as wrong as $15.00 a hr min wage. So yes, something has to be done.
I don't usually engage with you because, well, you aren't that easy to talk to, but I have to call BS.
You assume I don't know too much about the way an economy works. That would be a bad assumption, having run a couple of multi-million dollar electronics companies.
As I said before, I have no problem with government enacting and enforcing laws that protect workers. In fact, that's just about ALL the government should be doing. Protection of the citizenry from bad guys, Berni Madoff to Vladimir Putin. And keep the infrastructure up to snuff.
These are very complex, expensive areas that the feds can handle with aplomb, our fine military being the perfect example. Once they dabble in areas outside their clearly defined limits as set in the Constitution, that's when things go down hill.
You went to great lengths in a recent thread about licensing, declaring you are a strict Constitutionalist. Want to point out the section of that document where the founding fathers dropped a line about the feds determining what folks should earn?
Haven't you in the past talked about how anything the government touches turns out poorly? I'll answer. Why yes indeed you have. In fact, it's a general theme running through your comments.
Then why are you now stating it is OK for them to price a commodity, namely, your labor? I'll answer again. You've painted yourself into a corner here and are now going to defend that which you previously railed against.
There should be no minimum wage and there should be no illegal alien workers. When wages are artificially high, some are enticed to hire illegals. If there were no illegal labor available, employers would need to pay a reasonable wage.
Arizona voted in a minimum wage hike in the 2016 elections. Each year, the minimum wage goes up until it reaches $12/hr in 2020. Some businesses have folded because they cannot afford the cost, others are installing self serve kiosks. Still others have raised their prices. None of this helps the people on the bottom.
* I am not an economist and I don't play one on TV. This is my opinion, based on observation. Many years ago, I worked along side a few illegal aliens. On Friday afternoon, the boss came out and gave me a check, with taxes, SS, etc. taken out; then peeled off a wad of greenbacks for the other guys. He needed somebody who could drive a truck and I needed a job.
To clarify: It's always someone else's fault with you then, correct? I'm not going to dig through all your post to illustrate this point, but it seems a common theme.
I think this $15 an hour thing is a ridiculous feel good law that people who actually have money set into place and really keeps the poor...poor. That is the goal I believe.
It IS a ridiculous feel-good law, and the end result WILL be higher unemployment or under-employment, prices on EVERYTHING will rise, businesses will close or move elsewhere and in the long run its going to cause 10x the misery as any gain it might give. Exactly the same as this guaranteed minimum income of $1700/mo experiment we have running in a 1/2-dozen cities right now. WHY THE **** would anybody bust their azz for $ 2000/mo when, after employment expenses, they are a few hundred better off weaving baskets and taking the hand-out ? THATS a no-brainer the libs cant seem to figure out. They ALSO cant seem to figgure out that once the business are gone, and everybody is on the hand-out, they have just re-created the USSR and we all know how that turned out.
On the other part...Yeh, there is always somebody with a "blame the victim" mentality.
Guy got mugged ?--He shouldnt have been in the alley, its his fault. Girl got raped ?- Its her fault, she shouldnt have been in that short skirt. Lost a fortune to the likes of Maddoff ?- Its your fault, you should have picked a different advisor Company screwed you over? _its not thier fault, you shouldnt have applied there. Car got stolen?-Well, you are the one who parked it there. You got nobody else to blame.
Its always the victims fault, never the criminals. I spent 47 years listening to that mentality from somebody in my family. The only thing that's MY fault is I didn't knock her psychotic teeth in before cutting her out of my life.
Mike is that the path you've taken? $1700, housing assistance, and no taxable income? I mean $1700 wouldn't cover my mortgage, but as I you've explained it (previously), $1700 is a normal place to live there with all the added assistance? $1700 would cover or revolving expenses. Is this per person? Minor children?
Oh, its not JUST the minimum wage. A whole slew of changes came into effect on the 1st.
Temps have to be treated like regular staff, increased entitled time-off, commission staff now get the GREATER OF the commission or minimum wage, but no less than minimum. Its no basically next to impossible to hire an "independent contractor" without the being considered staff (think Uber drivers ect)...
AND, this is all on top of the changes they made to the construction industry labor laws 2 years ago or so...
Velcome to Da Workers Republic ov Ontario, comrade !
I don't usually engage with you because, well, you aren't that easy to talk to, but I have to call BS.
You assume I don't know too much about the way an economy works. That would be a bad assumption, having run a couple of multi-million dollar electronics companies.
As I said before, I have no problem with government enacting and enforcing laws that protect workers. In fact, that's just about ALL the government should be doing. Protection of the citizenry from bad guys, Berni Madoff to Vladimir Putin. And keep the infrastructure up to snuff.
These are very complex, expensive areas that the feds can handle with aplomb, our fine military being the perfect example. Once they dabble in areas outside their clearly defined limits as set in the Constitution, that's when things go down hill.
You went to great lengths in a recent thread about licensing, declaring you are a strict Constitutionalist. Want to point out the section of that document where the founding fathers dropped a line about the feds determining what folks should earn?
Haven't you in the past talked about how anything the government touches turns out poorly? I'll answer. Why yes indeed you have. In fact, it's a general theme running through your comments.
Then why are you now stating it is OK for them to price a commodity, namely, your labor? I'll answer again. You've painted yourself into a corner here and are now going to defend that which you previously railed against.
There, that ought to set the thread on fire.
I never said you didn't understand the economy, I implied you were oversimplifying the issue. I stand by that.
I would love a United States that doesn't need a minimum wage, and I agree the government should not be setting wages.
That said, illegals as mentioned by another poster, outsourcing, temps, and American corporations making products in third world nations, then selling back to the US; all devalue American labor.
I congratulate you on your success, but ask you to consider, who will buy your products as wages are devalued further?
Min wage is band aide on a mortal wound, it needs to go. However, the artificial manipulation of wages has to stop on both ends, before that is possible.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 01-06-2018).]
Anybody who thought that the business owners would just take a loss of revenue and NOT pass the higher overhead on to someone else is a fool. ANY hike in cost is going to be passed like a hot potato, even tax or insurance hikes.
To clarify my position, I am not for a 15 dollar a hour, min wage. I am also not for abolishing the min wage, till wage manipulation mentioned in above post is resolved. Then by all means, get the government out of it.
Mike is that the path you've taken? $1700, housing assistance, and no taxable income? I mean $1700 wouldn't cover my mortgage, but as I you've explained it (previously), $1700 is a normal place to live there with all the added assistance? $1700 would cover or revolving expenses. Is this per person? Minor children?
This city isnt part of the pilot program, so I dont know the exact details.
The concept is, anybody on any for of assistance (welfare, disability, pension, ect) now falls under the same umbrella with the same amount of income and the same rules applying. Those who dont make the majic number (ie: students) can get top-up income to get there. If housing, medical/dental, transportation ect is on top of that or included in it, I really dont know. Dont apply to this city, the closest one is 150km away. I havent been back to Hamilton since Oct of 2015 but my guess is it has become a magnet for people looking to get onto the test program.
Keep in mind also, that Ontario is the place with free college. If you make less than 36,000 (I think it is) tuition is free. Again, dont apply to me so I only know the general info and not all the fine details.
All I was saying was this place has become a very close resemblance to the old socialist USSR with a teeny bit of capitalism thrown in. THAT, and simple human nature. As a species we are lazy. We would much rather find a rck and branch to build a lever/fulcrum than move a boulder with our backs. The same applies to jobs. 99.9% are looking for the most money with the least effort. I'm no different...I COULD go to a gym for a while, get back in shape and go work construction or something. What for ? $100 or $200 more than I make hitting a keyboard overnight, and then just have to spend that extra to go make it again?...No thanks, I found a niche market that covers me for now and it will do for the next little while while other things go on in the background.
LOL, not to mention that if I mentioned doing anything but solitary "light duty" type work, the docs would paint a target on the back of my head.....but I'm used to that.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-07-2018).]
The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. If $1/hr. was min wage in 1965 and a new car cost $2000, today what would the min wage have to be to buy a new car that now costs $30,000. $15/hr. Of course when I was working then, my fist car was a nine year old Ford that I paid $150 for. And those on min wages can not afford a new car.
This is where the expectations have changed. Yes you can buy a 30k new car but I quickly checked Chevy's and Kia's websites and thay have new cars starting at sub 14k sticker, lets say 15 k out the door--that without haggling at all. With a minimum wage of $7.25 that equates to ~2068 hours, not including any deductions. In the 1965 scenario it would be 2000 hours worked, not including any deductions. You will never be able to afford a new Cadillac, BMW, Lexus on minimum wage but you could afford a car...probably not much more than that.
In my opinion a $15 minimum wage would be disruptive to the labor market. going from $7.25 to $15 would be over a 100% increase. It would negate any good will of employees with experience have that make less than $15. I suspect that lots of folks making $14 would leave their long time jobs with the wage bump to $15 and since they could pickup a $15 hr job anywhere, probably closer to home and with less stress.
The last other part I do not like about a blanket $15hr wage is that it is blanket, there is no normalization for geographic income levelnig. IE the fast food worker who lives in NYC with a $2500 month rent will be getting the same wage of a fast food clerk in WV who pays $500 month in rent. My guess is that the jobs in these rural depressed areas would be harder hit with losses due to the fact that others in the area would not have the extra dispoasable income when the valeu meal costs rises $1, whereas in NYC if a cost of a value meal rises $1 folks jsut pay it and are on with their day.
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Originally posted by Old Lar: The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. If $1/hr. was min wage in 1965 and a new car cost $2000, today what would the min wage have to be to buy a new car that now costs $30,000. $15/hr. Of course when I was working then, my fist car was a nine year old Ford that I paid $150 for. And those on min wages can not afford a new car.
Your labor is a commodity, just like any other raw material. It consists of your time and effort, mental or physical.
Some of you folks railed on about Obamacare's individual mandate on the premise that for the first time in our history the government was forcing people to buy something and at an artificially set price.
You were wrong. The minimum wage has been forcing people to buy something for over fifty years. Namely, your time and effort.
The problem is so insidious that even some of you died in the wool conservatives have bought into it hook, line and sinker.
Yes we need strong, enforced laws that remove all of the issues you've all brought up. Abusive corporations, illegal immigration, environmental abuses, forced membership in unions and any other issues that tilt the playing field away from American workers.
However, we do not need a minimum wage law. The free market will determine that a burger flipper doesn't make more money than an EMT technician.
Heck with the number of lawyers being pumped out of these law schools, in a generation the free market might determine that plumbers make 300K and attorneys make 30K.
And politicians?
With the right laws in place they become part time help.
I will be hiring this year and expanding accordingly. Any potential hires will have their choice of burgers or hammers. I live in a right to work state.
However, we do not need a minimum wage law. The free market will determine that a burger flipper doesn't make more money than an EMT technician.
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Agreed.
Minimum wage is the beginning of socialism creeping. When businesses then make choices they have to make like reducing hours, and cutting benefits in order to continue doing business...what is the next socialist step? Make it illegal for them to do that?
I worked a period of nearly 45 days without pay beginning around September of last year. All overtime weeks. I did not make a single cent. I will soon reap the benefits of hard work. Those benefits require even more hard work. This makes me smile.
Your labor is a commodity, just like any other raw material. It consists of your time and effort, mental or physical.
Some of you folks railed on about Obamacare's individual mandate on the premise that for the first time in our history the government was forcing people to buy something and at an artificially set price.
You were wrong. The minimum wage has been forcing people to buy something for over fifty years. Namely, your time and effort.
The problem is so insidious that even some of you died in the wool conservatives have bought into it hook, line and sinker.
Yes we need strong, enforced laws that remove all of the issues you've all brought up. Abusive corporations, illegal immigration, environmental abuses, forced membership in unions and any other issues that tilt the playing field away from American workers.
However, we do not need a minimum wage law. The free market will determine that a burger flipper doesn't make more money than an EMT technician.
Heck with the number of lawyers being pumped out of these law schools, in a generation the free market might determine that plumbers make 300K and attorneys make 30K.
And politicians?
With the right laws in place they become part time help.
That episode of Frasier where the plumber he went to school with that he was looking down on had a 7 series and Frasier only had a 5 series Bimmer.
Welllll.......That DOES keep them out of the bars and brothels !
I live in a right to work state.
