The other factor in it is me. I really CAN be an blunt, ornery SOB at times and basically I'll say "no" nicely once. The second time it wont be nicely, the 3rd I'll outright ask if you are deaf or stupid, and if I have to say it a 4th you are going to war. THAT can be a major personality clash when dealing with people who are used to negotiating and talking until they get their own way. NOPE, they are not going to.
I coulda used you about 25 years ago. I mentioned in another thread about having BS proof Sheetrock. I wasn't kidding. I think I spent more time unspinning tales from middle managers than I did anything else.
Yes, I completely failed at what I tried to accomplish. I was truly trying to understand how no minimum wage could be instituted and not abused. Unintended consequences and all. Resulted in a loss of communication with a person that I could have learned from and was honestly trying to learn from.
I come off brash, when I don't mean to. I am going to take a breather and reflect on this.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 01-10-2018).]
Dennis, we've moved on from serious to stupid in this thread.
Stupid is more fun.
Please join us.
Only 1/2-way, man. The stories I could tell about the stupidity of that one place....
Like that manager sitting at her desk, face beet red in rage, literally screaming "You will be POSITIVE", and me with this smirk on my face. "Yeh, whatever." Same one who had a complete meltdown over signage. Customer wanted some 24x36 corplast signs, and we were out for the month (only got 20 at a time). All I did was say "We got any ? I guess he is waiting until next month". Ho-lee-crap, talk about a melt-down. She could only sputter-not even talk-"he WANTS, he WANTS"
Chick had NO business in mangement. No business in business or a workplace either. Laws didnt matter. reality and what existed didnt matter--the only thing that mattered was wants and entitlement, and WATCH OUT for the temper tantrum when she didnt get her own way. She was the 1st one I shut down with the ministry of labor....AND, I learned Quebec companies and American snowflakes are a BAAAADDDDDDD combination. Funny thing is, 3 years later I took over the tech department for the competition, and it was so close it may has well been the same company. Even the rhetoric was identical. Quebec-owned with a US-educated democrat snowflake female VP of Sales--What do you guys do, turn 'em out by the dozen or something ?
Yeh, the very 1st US-educated democrat snowflake I had met. Been a few since then, but I know 1st-hand what you guys are dealing with. You have my sympathies.
Besides, you want serious-to-stupid ?
We got a government that passed a law. We got a bunch of people telling the government "screw you, ney, ney, we are gonna ignore you and if you try and stop us take out ball and go home, and NOW we got a government saying "yeh, really? we are gonnna FACEBOOK you !!"
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-10-2018).]
Nailed it....BUT in this case its the companies being the tyrants throwing temper tantrums. Like it or not, $14/hr IS now the law here, and if you don't wanna pay that then close up shop or move elsewhere until the law changes more to your liking. Nobody is FORCING you to run a business and its a big planet. Find a spot you DO like.
I have a LOT of experience dealing with companies who feel they are above the law, staff have no rights, and they will do as they please to staff. Even had one boss about 10 years ago try and tell me what religion I was going to follow (Law of Attraction) and what I was going to think (Positive-only) and that they were not going to pay or record O/T worked above the maximum legal limit (I was "volunteering")
They learned otherwise in a VERY expensive manner. Actually, I have YET to loose a war against this kind of company, and I AM a big enough a-hole that if they want to **** with me, I WILL air all of the companies dirty laundry in public. You can BET they dont like that.
(Yes, I am being an azz and playing devils advocate part-way, but on the other hand what would happen if we all just decided laws don't apply to us because_______ and flatly, openly refused to follow the, flaunted it and told our victims "**** you". I'm also seeing low-wage earners being used as political pawns between big business and big government.)
Your response seems to take what I wrote and disregard it. Plus you use much to wide a brush. And cant seem to see both sides.
Wasn't speaking of protection of wages. I was speaking of the literal protection the military provides equally for the burger flipper as well as the billionaire. Despite the billionaire paying far more for that protection.
I took a job close to home when the wife first got sick. She was still mobile but needed help occasionally so a job 10 miles from home sounded good. This was a start up manufacturing operation fabricating 40 foot fiberglass waste containers for medical waste. Not a sexy product but very necessary.
The company was originally set up across the bay but got a good deal on an old vegetable processing facility over here so they decided to move, lock, stock and barrel.
The place was a mess, we were undermanned, had no equipment set up, no materials and the owner took an order for seven of these containers to be completed in a month. Which included the Memorial Day weekend, BTW.
The work pool over here is pathetic. The good workers all work for the two slaughterhouses. I went through 400 application, spoke to 200 candidates and hired 40 of them.
Fortunately we had a core of motivated, experienced fabricators that took these folks under their wing and showed them the ropes in fairly short order. This is not exactly rocket surgery but still.
So while still in set up mode the VP of operations ( son of the owner, of course ) holds a meeting where he says he's happy with the progress and so has decided to move up the schedule for four of the containers for the day after Memorial Day and oh BTW, he's heading to the Bahamas for the weekend.
We worked our asses off, three 16 hour days over the holiday weekend and got two containers ready for that fateful Tuesday.
Owner shows up and tell us how disappointed he is that we only got two done. He took me aside and explained that in the service industry, where he had made his fortune, the customer always gets what he wants.
I explained to him that this was manufacturing, not the service industry and the output is based on simple math. Floor space + equipment capacity + materials + manpower = product produced.
Oh and BTW, where's the manufacturing VP?
Things calmed down after that but what a sh*t show.
Epilogue?
Of the 40 I hired I fired 25. They wanted a job but they didn't want to actually work.
I've got 40 years of stories like this.
Wanna hear about the time the black girl called me a no account cracker and I got in trouble with the union? Or the time I had to fired a woman while she sat with her two year old on her lap? Or the time I physically threw the VP of plant maintenance out of the clean room for sanding Sheetrock while we were working? Or the plant manager who declared to the operations VP that I was completely incompetent, who then lost his job.....to me?
Here is what is wrong. Watch the vid. Around 5:30 he gets to a point. Later at 9:36 something more concise. Think about what these things mean.
However at 11min he takes it the entirely wrong direction. Apparently he would rather the government own everyone, than the people, the citizens of the country be able to control their own destiny. It is disheartening that he comes to his conclusion, and that other people do as well. It is very hard to get back once going down a path like this.
"Marxism [mahrk-siz-uh m] /ˈmɑrk sɪz əm/ noun 1. The system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, especially the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society. "
You see where this is going?
“Underlying everything as the real basis of society is the economic structure. This structure includes (a) the “material forces of production,” that is, the labour and means of production, and (b) the overall “relations of production,” or the social and political arrangements that regulate production and distribution. Although Marx stated that there is a correspondence between the “material forces” of production and the indispensable “relations” of production, he never made himself clear on the nature of the correspondence, a fact that was to be the source of differing interpretations among his later followers. Above the economic structure rises the superstructure, consisting of legal and political “forms of social consciousness” that correspond to the economic structure. Marx says nothing about the nature of this correspondence between ideological forms and economic structure, except that through the ideological forms individuals become conscious of the conflict within the economic structure between the material forces of production and the existing relations of production expressed in the legal property relations. In other words, “The sum total of the forces of production accessible to men determines the condition of society” and is at the base of society. “The social structure and the state issue continually from the life processes of definite individuals . . . as they are in reality, that is acting and materially producing.” The political relations that individuals establish among themselves are dependent on material production, as are the legal relations. This foundation of the social on the economic is not an incidental point: it colours Marx’s whole analysis.” https://www.britannica.com/topic/Marxism
“Marx declared that philosophy must become reality. One could no longer be content with interpreting the world; one must be concerned with transforming it. Soviet Marxism as worked out by Vladimir Ilich Lenin and modified by Joseph Stalin… the doctrine of the communist parties set up after the Russian Revolution (1917). Offshoots of this included Marxism as interpreted by the anti-Stalinist Leon Trotsky and his followers, Mao Zedong”
Do you see where this is going?
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-10-2018).]
Some, (maybe lots) don't have a good understanding of that word and end up in a predictable situation because of their inability to comprehend the premise of WORK.. I often wish I could buy their mindset for what it's worth and sell it for what they think it is, but then the problem would be finding a buyer so ignorant as to not see right thru the The only ones that would bite are just like the ones the mindset came from, and of course, their assets and financials are less than adequate to invest in anything above weekly survival; Full of fantasy and not a pot to pizz in or a window to throw it out of that doesn't belong to someone else, but they'll happily tell the world what it's doing wrong and how great they were at doing it...totally ignoring the fact that their imagined 'greatness' is what landed them in their predicament to begin with.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-10-2018).]
From 1:15 listen to them demonize people who "may be wealthy" and politicians vow to stand up for the "little guy". Sounds all valiant doesnt it? The news reporter does it more and even brought a guest in to try and make the "lower class" more jealous of "the wealthy", and leads the audience to boycott.
They end with the jobless rate being good. Just wait until business closures and layoffs. -
Mass murdering dictators preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist ``exploitation'' by capitalists.
Some, (maybe lots) don't have a good understanding of that word and end up in a predictable situation because of their inability to comprehend the premise of WORK.. I often wish I could buy their mindset for what it's worth and sell it for what they think it is, but then the problem would be finding a buyer so ignorant as to not see right thru the The only ones that would bite are just like the ones the mindset came from, and of course, their assets and financials are less than adequate to invest in anything above weekly survival; Full of fantasy and not a pot to pizz in or a window to throw it out of that doesn't belong to someone else, but they'll happily tell the world what it's doing wrong and how great they were at doing it...totally ignoring the fact that their imagined 'greatness' is what landed them in their predicament to begin with.
Meh, I dunno....I would say when you are sitting in front of a tribunal, just been fined several years profits, have left a string of former staff under medical care and have lawyers and police chasing you, plus have the majority of your customers take their business elsewhere.......ya probably did it wrong.
Ya know the REAL funny part here in this whole thread and this whole province-wide temper-tantrum ?
The wage went from $11.65 to $14. ($15 isnt for another year)
$2.35/hr. Times a standard 8hr work day. That's $18.80......twenty bucks.
If all a business is bringing in is twenty bucks a day in profits, its not going to be around long enough to worry about any laws. The same goes for any staff member who only brings in 20 bucks a DAY.
If you've never been in a Timmies (what started this thread) its a standard small donuts shop. 4-5 staff on at any given time, and with the volume they do they are moving constantly. Bringing in (just coffee) $2.25 about every 90-120 seconds. Times 2 registers, plus drive-thru at about one every 3 minutes max. Soup, sandwiches, and donuts are on top of that.
Its NOT about the 20 bucks, its about power.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-10-2018).]
"How dare you cut in to my profits?!" is about how I see the Timmy's franchisee behaving. If they can afford to have multiple locations, as this one in particular does, I'd assume it's plenty profitable, or they wouldn't have been able to open more locations. I have doubts that they can't afford to pay their employees more.
I have mixed feelings over $15 minimum wage. It doesn't bother me that it has gone up. It bothers me that all other wages haven't. And wages across the board haven't gone up proportionally to inflation or the cost of living. In theory, the cost of living should have gone down, since we're now paying equivalently less to almost everyone. Something ain't right. I doubt this will solve anything. I guess a band-aid is better than not doing anything at all, though.
The real problem is that too many "Conservatives" buy into the notion that we need a minimum wage at all.
It is very much in the same category as mandating citizens buy health insurance.
You remember being affronted over that right?
I don't think it's so much a case of buying into a need, as much as 'accepting' that it's here and going to stay here because it buys votes for our representatives and other politicians. There's dozens or more of these sort of 'for the common good' type things that have crept into our lives just in my lifetime that I doubt our founding fathers would have accepted or allowed on the federal or local levels. Gun control, mandatory seat belt laws, insurance of all kinds, property taxes, zoning laws, HOAs, even social security and medicare. And adding to the problems, there are a LOT of social justice warriors with just as much entitlement attitude on the right as there are on the left as well.
I don't think it's so much a case of buying into a need, as much as 'accepting' that it's here and going to stay here because it buys votes for our representatives and other politicians.
Probably correct but then again we may be seeing the nascent development of a new paradigm ( Man! I haven't used that term since my boardroom days ).
It's possible, though still unlikely I admit, that Mr. Trump is lifting the scales from the nations eyes.
I saw this yesterday on Twitter. -
Oprah got famous on TV for giving things away. Trump got famous on TV for teaching people what it took to get ahead.
If the (R's) get fully behind the message there's a chance.
I don't think it's so much a case of buying into a need, as much as 'accepting' that it's here and going to stay here because it buys votes for our representatives and other politicians. There's dozens or more of these sort of 'for the common good' type things that have crept into our lives just in my lifetime that I doubt our founding fathers would have accepted or allowed on the federal or local levels. Gun control, mandatory seat belt laws, insurance of all kinds, property taxes, zoning laws, HOAs, even social security and medicare. And adding to the problems, there are a LOT of social justice warriors with just as much entitlement attitude on the right as there are on the left as well.
Not sure about social security and medicare as it has been taken out of every check most of us have ever earned. The rest of it, I like where you are going. I think a removal of all the common good laws, swiftly executed. Might avoid the scenario I was worried about.
Medicare came into effect for the 1st time, in my lifetime--1966. I was already working as a teenager when it did. SS was around before that of course.
Medicare and Social Security were funded from my wages throughout my life with the promise that I could draw on that fund when and if I got old. It was an agreement that I had with my government, just as other taxes that I have payed provide me with roads, schools, police, etc. Although it might be contradictory to what some see as conservative principle, I believe I am entitled to a return on my involuntary “investment”.
The real problem is that too many "Conservatives" buy into the notion that we need a minimum wage at all.
It is very much in the same category as mandating citizens buy health insurance.
You remember being affronted over that right?
I've found that far too many conservatives....and business owners...have the same sense of entitlement as the left.
They feel entitled to free labor. free materials. free transportation. If not free deeply-deeply discounted because they are "trying to run a business" That and they feel entitled to sales. Just because they are offering a product or service, they seem to think you MUST buy it from them.
NOPE, on all counts.
They may be social conservatives, but economically they are liberals. (With themselves at the top of the pyramid, of course)
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-11-2018).]
Medicare and Social Security were funded from my wages throughout my life with the promise that I could draw on that fund when and if I got old. It was an agreement that I had with my government,.... I believe I am entitled to a return on my involuntary “investment”.
I've found that far too many conservatives....and business owners...have the same sense of entitlement as the left.
They feel entitled to free labor. free materials. free transportation. If not free deeply-deeply discounted because they are "trying to run a business" That and they feel entitled to sales. Just because they are offering a product or service, they seem to think you MUST buy it from them.
NOPE, on all counts.
They may be social conservatives, but economically they are liberals. (With themselves at the top of the pyramid, of course)
So you approve of government intervention across the board, clobbering all, in order to correct a problem you personally have witnessed in some business owners? Regardless of the over arcing problems, and principles?
Here's how next year, (actually, any time between early Dec '18 and probably any time in early 2019) , to strike a blow MeM style at Big Corp America! Don't buy it--just 'borrow' it on deposit and get your 'deposit' back in a few weeks. UP WITH THE PROLETARIAT!!! DOWN WITH THE CORPRATS!!
Walmart and Sam's Club announced wages will be increased for workers, paid maternal and parental leave is being expanded and bonuses are being sent out after the passage of tax reform. They're also giving $5000 to workers who adopt a child.
Arizona Public Service Co. wants to cut about $4.70 from the average residential customer's monthly bill thanks to the tax changes that President Donald Trump signed into law last month.
Funny thing is, 3 years later I took over the tech department for the competition, and it was so close it may has well been the same company. Even the rhetoric was identical. Quebec-owned with a US-educated democrat snowflake female VP of Sales--What do you guys do, turn 'em out by the dozen or something ?
