He didn't follow instructions and got shot. He looked to be reaching for something. Jury was correct. Troll elsewhere. I'm done with any further conversation about this with your dumb ass.
The attitude and aggressive demeanor of that prick was designed to cause fear and confusion, which WILL lead to "failure to obey" strictly out of human anxiety.
He then used that "failure" as an excuse for an execution.
He had PLENTY of time and space to fall back 20 feet to give himself some room and wait for backup.
Basically, he treated the whole thing as a combat situation from start to finish, when it fact once the 2 were down with arms extended the "crisis moment" had passed.
He also forgot, that HAD there been a 3rd person with a gun come around that corner, he was totally ****ed. The same goes for someone behind him. His attention was 100% laser-focused on that one target. Old-fashioned fixation. The moron THOUGHT he was in control of the situation, when in reality he had no control whatsoever.
Seems to me a combination of 'roid rage, bad power-trip attitude and poor training.
(To be honest, its been over 10 minutes since I watched that interaction, and I STILL have an overwhelming urge to pound the crap out of that cop due 100% to his attitude and demeanor. If the VIDEO can have that affect on a human psyche (the fight-flight response), imagine what the actual interaction would have done. He went in there looking for a fight, and got one)
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 12-09-2017).]
Well, went to the site to watch the video but, it required me to sign up. Not gonna do that.
So, I'll just have to accept the jury's judgement. Not that what I think would matter at this point.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
My wife told me to grow up. I told her to get out of my fort!
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-09-2017).]
It was pretty horrifying to watch. The man was impaired and on his hands and knees. As he crawled forward he reached to his waist (most likely to pull his pants up) which the officer took as a threatening move. The guy was crying and crawling while looking down at the floor.
Bad shoot. The guy was drunk. Cops use failure to follow instructions as part of their field sobriety test. This time they used it to justify killing him. They could have walked up to him at several points in the video when he had his hands up or in front of him or while they had him do the Hokey Pokey before they shot him.
Another trigger happy cop that loves exerting his authority! This didn't have to happen. Anyone know what he was being held for? Was there even any crime involved? The video doesn't explain much.
It was reported to police as a man with a gun in a hotel room. It turned out the man and friends were drinking and pointing a pellet gun out the window. Totally stupid and irresponsible behavior which ended up costing his life.
Another trigger happy cop that loves exerting his authority! This didn't have to happen. Anyone know what he was being held for? Was there even any crime involved? The video doesn't explain much.
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:
It was reported to police as a man with a gun in a hotel room. It turned out the man and friends were drinking and pointing a pellet gun out the window. Totally stupid and irresponsible behavior which ended up costing his life.
Let's look at this from a cause and effect stand point. Hmmm, a LEO called to investigate a man pointing a gun out a window? Trigger happy? Maybe, scared, most likely. Wasn't there and didn't see the evidence the jury saw and heard. Just glad I wasn't the LEO. Every time a LEO goes on one of these calls, they know they are risking their own lives.
I have to go back to my previously stated position. We are all responsible for the decisions and actions we take. Making stupid decisions and taking stupid actions frequently results in undesirable results. Pointing that pellet gun out the window is what got this all started. Not suggesting he deserved to get shot but, that decision had a less than desirable end result.
The suing wife wouldn't win if I was on the jury based on what I've read, have now seen on the news and know what I think to be the truth. Stupidity often results in painful results. In this case, death. Hope his friends and all of us learned something from this very tragic example.
And yes, I am pro-gun rights. ------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
My wife told me to grow up. I told her to get out of my fort!
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-09-2017).]
From what I seen in the video, cops were called for a man with a gun, and perp sort of obeyed police commands UNTIL he reached for his waist. They still hadnt seen a gun, thrown out or placed on floor. So entirely possible it was still on him. You had 1-2 seconds to decide what to do as a cop. He shot. Jury got it right, open and closed case to me. Moral = wear right sized pants or belt so your pants dont fall down morons.
I am never torn when an idiot causes their own issues. Play stupid games...
Now, I have watched the video several times from two different Officer cams. The man never complied, he was extremely scared, he kept reaching when told not to.
He did look and sound impaired. He was visibly shaking and scared. He did not understand the commands that Officers are trained to give.
I am not an official on the subject, but I saw an Officer do his job. A man died because he was in the act of being an idiot. The directive training given to that Officer appeared to have been followed.
This is newsworthy, but all of the flash and glitz surrounding our news system only infuriates those on the left. Have a good look at what our home screen news reports give. The headlines are all that folks read. We have proven this here again and again. Reactionary postings.
Enjoy your day kiddos. Keep your head on a swivel. Actually be smarter than the next guy.
Edit: Yet another threepup post of kindness.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 12-09-2017).]
It sucks that it ended up this way... but the guy was told repeatedly to stop doing that.
What I don't understand is why the officer shot so many times, or why he had a rifle? What kind of police were these? Normally they use a 9mm or they have a shotgun in the vehicle. He shot like 2-3 times.
I don't totally blame the officer, but I think it was unnecessarily escalated.
Why didn't he have the other officer go and subdue the guy first? The woman seemed to be the least threatening.
But, whatever... quarterbacking. I'm not a police officer. I don't know the situation.
I don't get why he had the guy crawling and so many orders. Why not just leave him stretched out on the floor until the other officer could restrain him? 5 shots in all most full automatic speed. Yes he was an idiot. Alcohol will do that to you. Still no reason to lose your life. Tragic in all respects. I'm reminded of the previously deported guy in SF who shot an innocent woman with a stolen cops gun. When asked if he was sorry his reply was "No, it was an accident. I could call this an accident too but it could have been prevented with a little cooler head.
I saw another explanation that made a lot of sense.
He had basketball shorts on, and the officer was asking him to drag himself around on the floor. They were probably falling down, so he, like he does every day, reached to pull them up(not even thinking about it).
IIRC there were two other officers behind him, he was the only one who shot. Why not just tell the guy to lay down on the ground, and have one of the other two cuff him? You literally hear him begging for his life. The cop was making a terrified person jump through hoops, he was supposed to fail. This is murder.
I learned one thing from this video. When an officer asks you if you can follow instructions, always say no! Just lay down with your hands over your head and wait for them to cuff you and drag you off. I don't like playing Simon Says when getting it wrong means 5 bullets and certain death.
I saw another explanation that made a lot of sense.
He had basketball shorts on, and the officer was asking him to drag himself around on the floor. They were probably falling down, so he, like he does every day, reached to pull them up(not even thinking about it).
IIRC there were two other officers behind him, he was the only one who shot. Why not just tell the guy to lay down on the ground, and have one of the other two cuff him? You literally hear him begging for his life. The cop was making a terrified person jump through hoops, he was supposed to fail. This is murder.
So, based on this, I have to assume you will do precisely what a LEO says, no more, no less. While you consider it murder, the jury disagreed. So, it's not murder. Had you been on that jury, then it might have been different or ended up as a hung jury. Doesn't really matter now, it's a settled issue. Maybe we all should learn something from this. Huh??
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
My wife told me to grow up. I told her to get out of my fort!
The words he had etched on his rifle means jack **** , and anyhow I thought liberals only wanted cops to have guns.
Yes but not the current cops. First the Progressives must tear down the current system so that we beg them to save us. Then only the chosen Federal Police will have the guns. Then there will be paradise. Just like Soviet Russia and Socialist Venezuela.
Yes but not the current cops. First the Progressives must tear down the current system so that we beg them to save us. Then only the chosen Federal Police will have the guns. Then there will be paradise. Just like Soviet Russia and Socialist Venezuela.
Some of you have wondered about why the LEOs didn't go TO the kid to restrain him. Simple. The threat (real or not) was just around that corner. As far as they knew, someone with a GUN was on the other side of that closed door. Why would the LEOs walk into what could have been a shooting range to subdue the suspect? Of course they wanted the suspect to come to them. The LEOs wanted to stay out of harms way. Makes perfectly good sense to me. Standing in front of that door for a few seconds to gain entry is a whole lot different than standing there for what could have been minutes as they subdued, cuffed and dragged the suspect away.
As far as the type of weapon used, that's easy. You use the right weapon for the job. A scatter gun (shot gun) is exactly NOT the weapon to use in a hotel. The chance of shot pellets going through walls or going beyond the target (hitting innocents) are almost a guarantee. A handgun isn't as powerful or accurate as a long gun. The LEOs (probably their version of SWAT) are trained to use an M16/M4 (or whatever that was). Soldiers don't routinely carry a handgun because that's generally not the right weapon. Same situation here.
The LEOs subdued the woman first because she was closer. It doesn't matter who has the size. It wouldn't make any sense for the LEOs to walk past her to subdue the male first.
He HAD backup. You don't put 100 LEOs in a hallway. You put as many as you need for the situation. It might be 2 or it might be 10 but if you put too many in a relatively confined space, they can't do their job. There was at least 1 other LEO besides the shooter. He was telling someone else to cuff the female. As far as I know (and I'm not very familiar with this case), there could have been 10 LEOs behind him.
"Combat situation"? Of course it was a combat situation. As far as anyone knew, there was an active shooter. For all the LEOs knew, it could have been MULTIPLE active shooters. "Crying and crawling" mean absolutely nothing. Any of us can fake the crying part, especially if we had a weapon and wanted to use that as a diversion to get a better angle on a shot. Even my fat arse can shoot while lying on the ground. Being drunk doesn't mean much, either. It's not like drunks can't be violent.
Roger's pretty close to being right about LEOs having 1-2 seconds to decide except it's more like 0.1-0.2 seconds. If you don't act instinctively, you might die and your split second hesitation might allow others to die as well.
I've never been a cop but I have 15 years experience dealing with similar situations. The cop did exactly what he was trained to do which is why he was found not guilty.
We do not have shot guns in our vehicles, those were changed out to rifles that use 556 years ago. We used to carry .38 revolver but now carry .40 Glock. Why? I am not sure, but the shotgun is not even an option for us. I can safely assume that other departments have done the same. Why so many shots? That is a very common question, I am sure it was also asked in court, so the jury no doubt had the answer in this case. My opinion means nothing to the end result in this case, but our training states that we soot to stop the threat. IF, and as long as the threat exists, we can still shoot. I did not see the video, and I have no knowledge of the case, so my opinion is based solely on replies in this thread. Not to be disrespectful to the victim, but I based my reply on a hypothetical, not the facts that the jury had. I did not log into the site.
I understand the whole “armed person may very well be in the room or around the corner, “ non-argument, but the PO was not helping the situation by yelling like that, the victim was obviously having difficulty following directions and was incapacitated in some way.
I understand the whole “armed person may very well be in the room or around the corner, “ non-argument, but the PO was not helping the situation by yelling like that, the victim was obviously having difficulty following directions and was incapacitated in some way. Click to show
I absolutely agree with all of this also. All of it. Nothing should be suppressed. I am not in any camp here other than absolute truths.
It is difficult to watch. But this is the footage that jurors reviewed in the case, and if the public wants to diminish the likelihood of shootings like this one, ordinary citizens will need to grapple with what it depicts.
Jurors who watched the full video showing Daniel Shaver's death agreed Thursday to acquit former Mesa officer Philip Mitchell Brailsford of murder, ending an emotional six-week trial. Brailsford faced as many as 25 years in prison for the second-degree murder charge.
The graphic video, recorded by Brailsford’s body camera, shows Shaver and the woman exiting the hotel room and immediately complying with commands from multiple officers. The video was shown in court during the trial, but it was released to the public after jurors acquitted Brailsford on Thursday.
We don't just have an issue with police. We have an issue with our justice system and our culture that celebrates police. There is no just world where this video is purposely withheld from the jury in a case revolving around this specific incident. It is absolutely insane to me that they have the ability to withhold this video in the first place.
That all being said, my personal opinion is that it wasn't just that he reached back while crawling (likely to pull up his pants); it's also that he had just reached behind his back moments before, in a move that looked remarkably similar to someone reaching for a gun. Both taken into context together, I am not surprised the officer thought he was reaching for a gun.
Many things could have been done differently. He shouldn't have to listen to 20 complicated commands to avoid getting shot. He was lying on the ground face down and could have easily been approached safely. If the officer was so worried about getting shot by a third party in the room, the officer wouldn't have advanced immediately after shooting the deceased. That argument falls flat to me.
I can't say definitively what my opinion on the whole thing is, because even though I understand the cops point of view, there are plenty areas of improvement. What I can say, is that our justice system should never allow for purposely withholding evidence like this. Period. It is a gross injustice that it has happened. The jury should have been given all of the facts. I would even call for a mistrial, if I were the prosecutor on the case.
EDIT: Looks like the video was shown to the jury? In that case, I would probably have to agree with them. I have called out police corruption a LOT. I am a Black Lives Matter supporter, to the chagrin of this forum. But this video didn't show a murder to me.
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 12-10-2017).]
So, based on this, I have to assume you will do precisely what a LEO says, no more, no less. While you consider it murder, the jury disagreed. So, it's not murder. Had you been on that jury, then it might have been different or ended up as a hung jury. Doesn't really matter now, it's a settled issue. Maybe we all should learn something from this. Huh??
The big issue is that they did not show the video to the jury, if they had, I doubt the story would be the same.
[QUOTE]The graphic video, recorded by Brailsford’s body camera, shows Shaver and the woman exiting the hotel room and immediately complying with commands from multiple officers. The video was shown in court during the trial, but it was released to the public after jurors acquitted Brailsford on Thursday.
[/QUOTE]
Welp, apparently I was wrong.
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
You are lying.
Sorry, I read his response before I got to yours.
[This message has been edited by Threedog (edited 12-10-2017).]
I think he is mistaken, after misinterpreting an article. From your WaPo link: "Attorneys for the officer had petitioned to keep the video from being released, and a judge agreed to block its release to the public until after the trial had concluded."
Perhaps Threedog misinterpreted a similar statement to mean it wasn't released to the jury. Perhaps another article, not posted here, hinted at that being the case. I wouldn't assume malice on Threedog's part.
I think he is mistaken, after misinterpreting an article. From your WaPo link: "Attorneys for the officer had petitioned to keep the video from being released, and a judge agreed to block its release to the public until after the trial had concluded."
Perhaps Threedog misinterpreted a similar statement to mean it wasn't released to the jury. Perhaps another article, not posted here, hinted at that being the case. I wouldn't assume malice on Threedog's part.
The irony here is that he accused the officer of a rush to judgment, while he, himself, did just that.
From Posting Rules: "This is a family forum! This means PFF gets visitors from all ages. Please respect that. So no links to adult sites. No lewd pictures. Also, be careful with those pr0n words. It causes PFF to drop rapidly in the search engines."
Happened AGAIN in Florida. Black man attacked and beat a police officer responding to a domestic 911 call. Back up arrived and he wouldnt stop pounding on the cop. Looks like he was trying to break his leg. Finally after repeatedly told to stop and put his hands up, he charged that officer who shot him dead. Just shows these people are just madman animals that only chose to fight. They either run putting others in danger or attack. What idiot besides these charges 2 armed men with his bare hands and expects any result other than being shot. Cops dont shoot to wound...theyre trained to STOP a threat, usually with pairs of shots. As usual black momma says her boy (who turns out to be a 6'4" 42 year old man) would never have done that. Apparently shes too dumb or ignorant to see him doing it in the video. I for one am glad he got shot dead...he had a choice. Saves taxpayers paying for a trial and his prison time. Just drop the body bag off at mommas. I still say something in their brains physiology is messed up...they cant seem to think normally or rationally. Its either that or their simply inbred stupid. Call me racist all you want...cant argue with obvious facts.