As you probably realized before you clicked, I was being sarcastic. The Topic (thread) title.
The topic of sea levels, and whether or not they are rising, and by how much, became a lively discussion inside a discussion--another Off Topic discussion--about the two recent hurricanes, Harvey and Irma.
I said that according to official press releases and other public statements from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, NASA has measured a mean global sea level increase of Three Inches over the most recent Twenty Years. //www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/121166.html#p34
Not everyone accepted the validity of that finding.
Two other forum members said it was not consistent with what they have observed themselves, on Virginia's Atlantic coast, and on Florida's Gulf Coast. One of the members posted photographs of two beach areas, close to St Petersburg (FL), to support his assertion that there is a big difference between the statement from NASA, and what he has been able to see with his own eyes.
If the NASA findings are part of some massive, Capricorn One style deception that is being put over on the general public by the U.S. government, or "the media", or the Illuminati, or Al Gore, I cannot help anyone penetrate this Alternate Reality Bubble that is being created.
I hypothesize a more prosaic scenario, of a single Reality Bubble that all of us perceive in similar ways and all of us agree is Real. That is the scenario that I speak to.
I have three offerings today for anyone who likes to see the "stuff" that I put up on this forum, on almost any given day.
Video Presentation One Sea Level video (almost 3 minutes) from the Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales (CNES). So, a French research organization, but the video is presented in nicely spoken English. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-0U7YBXNWY
Altimetric satellites are able to measure sea level and can observe how it has been changing with climate change since 1992. Not only can they tell us the global change but also the regional changes. Sea level changes are due to thermal expansion of water, melting of the polar ice caps and continental glaciers and water inputs from land. Tide gauges are able to tell us that sea level rose at a slower rate before the 1990s and then the global sea level trend increased after that. This is likely due to the increase of greenhouse gasses and climate change.
Miami Beach could be underwater this century. The sea level around the tourist paradise has risen steadily in recent decades and flooding in the streets has become more frequent and severe. Most of the city sits just four to five feet above sea level, and on a foundation of porous limestone—making it especially susceptible to tidal flooding and surging oceans.
As experts predict the sea level to rise significantly in the coming years, the city of Miami Beach must decide how to keep itself afloat. This documentary examines how the city has taken unprecedented steps to save itself from the sea.
This is some Copy and Paste. There is more at the NASA page link.
Orbiting spacecrafts make highly accurate measurements of the height of the ocean surface - commonly called 'sea level' - to gather long-term information about the world's ocean and its currents. These measurements provide information about the topography of the ocean’s surface, which is used to study weather, climate, and other dynamic ocean phenomena. Ocean surface topography data also have many other applications, such as in fisheries management, navigation and offshore operations.
Ocean and land topography are defined exactly the same way. Both give the height of the ocean or land above the geoid. The geoid is the shape the sea surface would have if all the currents and tides stopped.
. . .
NASA currently has two satellite missions that measure ocean surface topography. Jason-1, launched in 2001 continues the measurements begun by TOPEX/Poseidon, which operated from 1992 through 2006. The follow on mission to Jason-1, the Ocean Surface Topography Mission on Jason-2 (OSTM/Jason-2), was launched in 2008 and will take this important data record into a second decade.
These missions use radar altimeter systems specially designed to make extremely accurate and precise measurements of the height of the ocean surface. The satellites measure the height of the sea surface with an accuracy of about 3 centimeters (just over 1 inch) relative to the center of the Earth, and they collect data over nearly all of Earth's ice-free ocean every 10 days.
. . .
The second component of the ocean height measurement is the range from the satellite to the ocean surface. To take a measurement, an onboard altimeter bounces microwave pulses off the ocean surface and measures the time it takes the pulses to return to the spacecraft. The highly accurate altimeter range measurements are subtracted from the satellite orbital height, resulting in ocean topography measurements that are accurate to 3.3 centimeters (1.3 inches) relative to the center of the Earth. By averaging the few-hundred thousand measurements collected by the satellite in the time it takes to cover the global ocean (10 days), global mean sea level can be determined with a precision of several millimeters.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-06-2017).]
Easy fix,, desalination plants and water the deserts , take the salt to the salt flats for racing, win win.. more farm land and more salt for the LSR . Oh look the sea water rise issue gone..
Considering the idea from E (E for Excellence?) Furgal
If rising sea levels are a problem, then creating more desalination plants for processing seawater would be like trying to import sand for construction projects from Saudi Arabia, one teaspoon at a time. You could not even make a noticeable difference, using that strategy. I don't think it makes sense, even in theory. There are two main reasons why sea levels are rising:
Thermal expansion from global warming. The same mass of seawater takes up more space as its temperature goes up, with every small fractional increase of one degree Celsius.
Water that had been part of the cryosphere (polar ice caps, glaciers) melting and becoming part of the hydrosphere (oceans, lakes, rivers, rain)
The desalination plants idea does not address either one of those causes.
As far as the remarks from Cliff W,
I don't know what that (new island or island suddenly appearing) is about. Have not seen the reports.
Cities, towns and other human settlements on coastlines around the world are being affected by this differently, depending on more localized factors
I think New York City is currently involved in a lot of engineering to cope with rising sea levels. Big projects, already underway. Big $.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-06-2017).]
Originally posted by rinselberg: As far as the remarks from Cliff W,
I don't know what that (new island or island suddenly appearing) is about. Have not seen the reports.
What ? Your trusted news venues do not report news which they find unfavorable ? Shocking I tell you, simply shocking .
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg: Cities, towns and other human settlements on coastlines around the world are being affected by this differently, depending on more localized factors. I think New York City is currently involved in a lot of engineering to cope with rising sea levels. Big projects, already underway. Big $.
Like we should give a rat's azz about the plight of people who choose to live at sea level or slightly below it. Cry me a river ocean. I live next to a 300' wide river, just before Medina Lake. Sometimes it floods, sometimes you can walk across it. You play the hand you deal to yourself. Don't ask me to finance your bet.
Just think of all the new ocean front property owners new found wealth.
... for people who understand the transitory nature of this place, what happens next seems almost preordained. This land mass could be gone with the next storm, or this island could get bigger for awhile longer—but probably only for a short time.
Hallac, Couch, and several other experts agree: the new landmass some have taken to calling Shelly Island will almost certainly be wiped out within the year.
This is a local phenomenon, but it does not contradict anything that NASA has gone on record with, about globally rising seas.
This new and probably short-lived island fits right in with what I was saying the other day, which I put up in the older Harvey and Irma discussion thread: //www.fiero.nl/forum/F...ML/121166-2.html#p68
This is a local phenomenon, but it does not contradict anything that NASA has gone on record with, about globally rising seas.
This new and probably short-lived island fits right in with what I was saying the other day, which I put up in the older Harvey and Irma discussion thread: //www.fiero.nl/forum/F...ML/121166-2.html#p68Click to show
There's Local, and there's Global.
Your funny. I like you. Do you know how much 'high tide' raises the ocean level ?
Do you know how sea level was determined before NASA was conceived ?
Why is NASA concerned about the Earth when they are a space exploratory agency ?
Your funny. I like you. Do you know how much 'high tide' raises the ocean level ?
Do you know how sea level was determined before NASA was conceived ?
Why is NASA concerned about the Earth when they are a space exploratory agency ?
How does NASA determine sea level ?
The short answer to the last one of those questions is "by taking measurements from polar orbiting satellites that cover the entire planet."
It's all in my very post here, at the top. Video Presentation One and then the Presentation from the NASA web page, which is the last part of my Original Post.
And, in response to randye, I made this a new discussion because the older discussion, about hurricanes Harvey and Irma, had some other topics wrapped into it. I wanted this new thread to focus strictly on the topic of Sea Levels. And I did not start that older thread, about Harvey and Irma. That would be dratts.
I am feeling a little more kindly towards randye today. At least at this moment. He just came in here with two messages in which the worst thing that he said or implied about me was that I am an "Attention Whore." He didn't use any words or phrases that are vulgar or even borderline vulgar. Credit where credit is due.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-06-2017).]
If the sea level actually rose at all, it's most likely due all those damn shade balls.
We gotta quit throwing our trash in the oceans...............
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
My wife told me to grow up. I told her to get out of my fort!
What was the island that was on the news years ago saying that it was soon to be underwater... They even "evacuated" all the people that lived there...
IIRC it was only a few inches needed to "sink" the place. So it should be gone now, right?
Let me do some googling, it probably made the news when it sank.... Since they made such a big deal out of it.
What was the island that was on the news years ago saying that it was soon to be underwater... They even "evacuated" all the people that lived there...
IIRC it was only a few inches needed to "sink" the place. So it should be gone now, right? Click to show
Let me do some googling, it probably made the news when it sank.... Since they made such a big deal out of it.
Brad
Carteret Islands
Edit:
Short story is the populous of the New Guinea islands was supposed to be the first Climate Refugees in 2005. Yeah, more hyperbole. Still there. Still fishing. It is not exactly a continent.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 12-06-2017).]
They keep bumping that danger date up for those poor people of New Guinea.
If anyone with half a wit would do a bit of reading on the subject of those islands, then you would see that these islands were at or near sea level in their entirety.
@ Threedog... You do not read Forbes magazine. You posted a headline. No soup for you.
@ Threedog... You do not read Forbes magazine. You posted a headline. No soup for you.
He doesn't even read the headline disclaimer, or if he does he just ignores it.
OK to be fair he *maybe * did read it, but we all know that leftists have this huge problem with OPINIONS vs facts.
Hell, even Forbes had the good sense to call it OPINION.
It's right there at the top: "OPINIONSexpressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.
I know, I know treepup. The guy says he is a geologist and he even mentioned the Holy name *NASA*, so it MUST be true. I mean it's even in Forbes magazine and it's on the *internet*!
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 12-07-2017).]
Originally posted by randye: See, now there you go again you little drama queen. You got your frilly little burka in a twist and in a butt hurt rage you posted that you were not going to have anything to do with anything I posted. SO, Now you show yourself to be a LIAR..... again.
First, a small correction to something I posted earlier in this discussion. Strike out the words as indicated:
quote
And, in response to randye, I made this a new discussion because the older discussion, about hurricanes Harvey and Irma, had some other topics wrapped into it. I wanted this new thread to focus strictly on the topic of Sea Levels. And I did not start that older thread, about Harvey and Irma. That would be "dratts."
I thought you might be signaling some respect, on your part, for the Posting Rules, which starts with "Keep It Civilized."
My mistake.
Since you're incapable of not trying to have the last word, consider whatever babble you are going to come back with already Pre-Replied To.
**** off.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-07-2017).]
Yeah, I guess I could be annoying to anyone who has decided that the Keep It Civilized rule--the first of the listed Posting Rules--does not have any relevance for them.
That was just pathetic, Mr Kania.
What reason has You Know Who for barging into this thread? Not to discuss Sea Levels. If he wanted to stand on his previous statement about it, from the earlier thread, where he posted some photographs of beaches (accompanied with a slew of Uncivilized and Uncalled For Remarks) he could have done that.
Troll Blind, much?
You got a lot of dumb on right now, going after me.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-07-2017).]
I guess it was Mr. Inselberg. I'm still going to complish something today that you couldn't even imagine doing. :-)
I don't hate you, but I think you've been an a****** lately. And I'm good with that. You can continue to be you, but don't f****** tell me how to be me. :-)
As always, enjoy your day. At least you're not a f*** stick like keel.
I believe my own eyes for physical proof over what ANY scientist says. While it may be higher in some places, Im only familiar with the Caribbean. My house on the beach there has been there for over 100 years (grandparents built it in like 1903). Its about 20 yards from the back door to the ocean, a little closer at high tide. Its been the same the whole time. The house hasnt moved or the beach built up. Like mentioned already, I really dont care if a Calif or Florida beach is 5' smaller 100 years from now. Climate may or may not be changing by mankind. The recent volcano eruption put out more gases and debris than autos have since they were invented...yet I still see no measurable changes in anything. Even the new western fires, which can be seen from space havent affected much other than some smoke and ash floating east.
I thought you might be signaling some respect, on your part, for the Posting Rules, which starts with "Keep It Civilized."
**** off.
You're just a walking billboard for hypocrisy and LIES Ronald.
You harp about "posting rules" and not disclosing personal information but YOU were the first one to start using members last names.
You harp about "posting rules" saying "keep it civilized", but tell me to " **** off " (as though the swear filter somehow magically makes you "civilized")
You're also still an attention whore.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Yeah, I guess I could be annoying to anyone....
That's the only thing you have gotten correct.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 12-07-2017).]
We are just ignoring the vast majority of scientists now because "we see more with our own two eyes?"
That is the same argument that calls the world flat..
This is not your usual garbage post.
I agree with you. However many scientists are misquoted and biased organization make crazy claims unsuported by science. Climate change is absolutely a real thing but to claim we know the cause or have a solution would be a lie. What we do know is that there's evidence that contradicts theories that correlate co2 with global temperatures.