This was a block and a half from me. I was actually just headed out to the beer store with a couple lady friends when 6 or 7 cop cars came tearing into the parking lot, lights and sirens going, and all went running around the grounds looking for somebody. We didn't find out until the next day what the issue was.
"unofficial" <nudge-nudge-wink-wink> word is there was a fight in front of the store, he went out to tell them to move along and they went at him with a knife and ball-peen hammer. He has had 2 head surgeries so far.
The attack they mention at the bottom of the article was right across the street in July.
Muggings and fights have gotten so out of hand around here that the cops advise us residents not to go out alone at night--exactly why I was with the girls. (Labatts brewery and store is only 3 blocks away. Eat your heart out Stubby !! --location-wise, this place cant be beat. EVERYTHING you could possibly want is in summer-walking distance or winter-$10-cab-ride)
AND, the WHOLE problem is drugs--we have a BIG homeless shelter/rehab center (5 stories high, the size of a hospital) 3 1/2 blocks away. IT is being moved to the outskirts of town by spring if the construction of the new place stays on schedule. The existing building is being turned into a secure (prison-like) inpatient treatment center. The hope is by moving the problem away from residential and downtown business areas, the city core can start to recover somewhat.
I'm serious, you cant even get to a bank ATM after 10pm here now, since they lock them up to prevent the dopers from using the area to shoot up and sleep. THATS new within the past 3 months or so.
8 years ago I used to go to that store since Roger was a customer and this was an older-but-decent neighborhood. 2 years ago when I moved in it was a little rough, but not THIS bad.
There have even been a few local deaths from fentynal-laced pot the past couple months. Girl I know on 5th was at a wake on Saturday for one of the guys who lived here 9 (I never met him-meh, its 240 units, ya dont meet everybody) who OD'd in a drug-house, and a house full of the dopers left him there for 3 days before checking on him..."Oh, we thought he was sleeping it off "
That's how big and how fast the drug crap is taking over....and problem is, there is nowhere left to go to escape it. Even small rural towns have police carrying moxillin (OD antidote) and have huge spikes in crime around here.
The girl on 12th I get to clean my place once a month got stabbed twice (once in the boob) a month ago.
Gettin kinda ridiculous. And its only going to get worse. Winter is coming so they will congregate around that shelter and the downtown mall (big 2-building thing) which is only 6 blocks away for the heat.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 10-24-2017).]
Don't stop the war on drugs, and don't let resources get redistributed away from it. There is no cure for dead brain cells, no mental health treatment exists for drug burnout. The damage from drugs is permanent.
Stop reviving these dopers and the problem fixes itself.
I agree.
Recently, there was a news segment on how much it's costing the taxpayers to revive the "users". Every EMT/Paramedic has a personal dose available for themselves (in case of some shared contamination from a user). Each Ambulance is carrying multiple doses on board due to all of the runs they are getting from overdosed users. Sorry, I don't remember the name of the drug/antidote but, it's costing the cities, counties and state (us) a fortune. No, all lives are not worth saving...................
Harsh? Tell that to the addicts/users who make stupid decisions. Tell that to the parents who don't teach their kids to be responsible for their own actions/decisions. I'm tired of this PC/liberal mindset. It doesn't take a village to rear a child, it takes a set of responsible parents who give a damn about their offspring(s).
Then, the abuser/users go out and do it all over again. Call me a hard ass, I don't care. If there wasn't a penalty for speeding, we'd all do it all of the time. We're all responsible for the decisions and actions we take. IF someone wants to get high and ODs, that's their decision and they have to live or die with the consequences. ------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-24-2017).]
Stop reviving these dopers and the problem fixes itself.
I agree too. There was at least one case this summer where one doper here was revived 3 different times in one day. I say good riddance if they overdose...they did drug by their choice. If all the druggies would die from overdosing, there would not even be a drug problem left and dealers would be out of business.
Dont tell me about neighborhoods going to hell. 10-15 years ago I could go away for the weekend and leave my Mercedes convertible outside, even with the top down...and no one messed with it. Its gone steadily down the dump. Now its only a breath away from being a ghetto. You cant leave anything outside like a rake, hose or old car part. Its gone by the next morning in most cases. I even wear a gun to cut grass.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 10-24-2017).]
After they have burned thru the free dope money (while enjoying the free housing, cafeteria meals, medical, health and vision care, laundry and supplied toiletries) and they go and beat somebody to death for a few bucks...
they get a free lawyer who will tell a liberal judge about their abusive childhood, addictions and health issues that are societies fault and not thiers.
THEN they get about 6-12 months (minus double-discount for pre-trial "time served" custody) in a country-club "rehab center" jail and a couple of years of "probation" (which means a 1-hour meeting once a month where they pick up more free stuff and get directions to the free safe-injection site. You know, so when they OD they can be revived for free).
This solution(letting them die) has been tried over and over again and it doesn't work. We have not always had the ability to save victims, yet drug problems have been rampant throughout history. Drugs are a crutch that many people fall under, many intelligent people. A large number of our heroin addicts in this country started on prescription drugs. It is easy to blame them, but it is not always the right course of action, keep in mind most addictions start far before the brain is even fully developed. Countries that have seen the most successful fights against drugs do not declare war on them, they treat the problem.
The war on drugs has so many issues. First of all, it clearly does not work. Rehab is far more cost efficient than enforcement, simply because enforcement does not return long term results.
Additionally, the war on drugs is one of the largest reasons for our immigration issue. The reason so many latin and south american countries are unstable is due to cartels that only exist because of our illegal drug market. The decriminalization of most drugs solves that issue. The best border wall is an economically strong and politically stable Mexico.
Decriminalization of drugs and focusing on rehab is cheaper and more effective than the current war on drugs and a border wall. We have sunk billions into a tactic that does not work, and is actively making our country worse. Why should we continue to do it?
This solution(letting them die) has been tried over and over again and it doesn't work.
You mean to tell me the overdosed druggies come back to life?
quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
Rehab is far more cost efficient than enforcement, simply because enforcement does not return long term results.
Death is a long term result, is it not? Much cheaper that rehab........
quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
Decriminalization of drugs and focusing on rehab is cheaper and more effective than the current war on drugs and a border wall. We have sunk billions into a tactic that does not work, and is actively making our country worse. Why should we continue to do it?
Tell ya what, you can pay for all the rehab you want to. I'll agree that the way we have conducted the war on drugs has not been successful. Other countries have had better success. Please remind me how they handle this in some middle eastern countries.................
I see these zombies on a daily basis, we'd all be better off if we let them have all the free drugs they think they can handle. But, by all means, spend every dime you have on rehab, leave my wallet alone.
Besides, who are we to try and rehabilitate them? Maybe they identify as drug addicts......or corpses. How arrogant must one be to try and talk them out of their life choices?
Yup. If you guys recall, I tried to help a couple my 1st year here. One was even the kid of a buddy.
Only thing that happened for my efforts was I got ripped off pretty good for some stuff, AND they went around telling the others where to find a sucker so I got to spend a while fending them off, slamming the door and generally being a miserable, VERY hostile unit towards them until they got the message. They aint that bright, it TAKES a while for the message to sink in.
Now, I just do my best to ignore them whenever I can, and remove them from my existence by other means when I cant.
Drugs are a crutch that many people fall under, many intelligent people.
Rehab is far more cost efficient than enforcement, simply because enforcement does not return long term results.
Additionally, the war on drugs is one of the largest reasons for our immigration issue. The reason so many latin and south american countries are unstable is due to cartels that only exist because of our illegal drug market. The decriminalization of most drugs solves that issue.
Decriminalization of drugs and focusing on rehab is cheaper and more effective than the current war on drugs and a border wall.
I hear circular argument after circular argument.
Personal responsibility, personal consequences are what is needed. Begin with removing hand outs, and more serious punishments, not less punishment and more handoutrs.
You mean to tell me the overdosed druggies come back to life?
I mean that drug addicts don't just come from drug addicts. Drug addicts come from all walks of life, and often do not have parents who were drug addicts themselves.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Death is a long term result, is it not? Much cheaper that rehab........
Except drug addicts do not always die. There are many other impacts of drug users, including crime. For that, they have to be jailed/put in prison. When they are released they fall right back into the same habits. If we paid for rehabilitation instead of prison time, our long term costs actually go down as we don't need to pay for continued imprisonment and they are far more likely to become taxpaying citizens themselves.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
I see these zombies on a daily basis, we'd all be better off if we let them have all the free drugs they think they can handle. But, by all means, spend every dime you have on rehab, leave my wallet alone.
I agree, drugs should not be illegal and the war is a waste. I am actually arguing for you to spend less money, just for it to be directed towards rehab instead of prisons.
Also, there are so many reasons why people get addicted to drugs that are not their fault. Doctors prescribe medication that is addictive. Soldiers and assault victims dealing with PTSD. Teenagers exposed to drugs far before their brains are even close to done developing and processing long term consequences.
Personal responsibility, personal consequences are what is needed. Begin with removing hand outs, and more serious punishments, not less punishment and more handoutrs.
The thing is, this doesn't work. We have been trying this for decades, and the problem is getting worse. There is no evidence that this is what solves the problem.
Has that, ever been the case, even before the US appetite for illegal drugs?
Mexico gained independence in the early 20th century. During the bloody revolution and following instability there was a large number of Mexican Immigration to the United States. After the 1920s, Mexican immigration dropped sharply(partially because of the depression as well). During the time period between 1950-1970, the Mexican economy flourished. Illegal immigration dropped sharply(also partially due to the Bronco Program). Source.
After the 1970 economic crisis and the following war on drugs creating instability in the country, illegal immigration got much, much worse.
I suffer from workplace-related PTSD and dont go running for a needle or a pill. Most dont. We find the appropriate treatment and get on with our lives. Not the same "life: we had before the issue that caused it, but not laying in a gutter with a needle in our arms either.
In my case it was a drug-and-chemical-free neural feedback regime and actually re-programming the brain to handle stress and conflict differently. YES, its a lot of hard work (and I'm still at it).
I have access and can find just about anything I could possibly want within 2 blocks of me....I'm just not interested.
Maybe the dopers need to find new interests and coping strategies....and beating the crap out of people to steal from them to support a habit isnt an option.
Because they do. Theyre worthless trash in society. They dont have a work ethic, lie cheat and steal from hard workers, waste hospital-police-EMT time. Name one positive benefit of a druggie to anyone ... Cant do it because they are a waste of resources like space and air.
The thing is, this doesn't work. We have been trying this for decades, and the problem is getting worse. There is no evidence that this is what solves the problem.
Originally posted by Threedog: Why do these people deserve to die?
Let me be clear about this, I don't care where they come from, I don't care why, I simply don't care. And, I don't appreciate my hard earned tax dollars being wasted on these zombies (losers). I've said this many times (if you have read very many of my posts, you'll know that). People are responsible for their own decisions and actions, the consequences are theirs to bear.
Deserve to die? That's their decision, not mine. You aren't advocating saving me money, you're simply wanting to spend it in another way. As I said, you spend all the money you want out of your wallet, these zombies are not where I care to invest my money.
Liberals (and yes, I do consider that a dirty word) always want to spend other people's money, I say spend your own. I'll spend mine on worth while projects.
IOWs, life is not a rose garden, we all have many opportunities to screw up. I don't feel sorry for the drunk driver that crashes his/her car, I feel sorry for the folks he/she hits. I don't owe that driver anything, he/she owes the victims. I don't feel sorry for the thief that gets caught stealing, I feel sorry for his/her victims. I don't feel sorry for anything I am not directly responsible for. I may sympathize with the victims but, not the perpetrator. These zombies don't deserve my help. You can give then (or me ) all the help you can afford to pay out. That's your choice. I'll say it one more time, we are all responsible for the actions we take and the decisions we make. Live or die with the consequences, their choice, not mine.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-25-2017).]
Deserve to die? That's their decision, not mine. You aren't advocating saving me money, you're simply wanting to spend it in another way. As I said, you spend all the money you want out of your wallet, these zombies are not where I care to invest my money.
My brother in law manages EMT services in a Southwestern county here in Florida.
A couple of weeks ago he told me that the county had spent well over $1.75 MILLION in unrecoverable funds in the first 6 MONTHS of 2017 providing Atropine and other medications to resuscitate drug addicts that had overdosed. That's ONLY the cost of the medications. Not the total cost in other resources and labor.
They also have to treat the SAME drug addicts as many as 5-6 times a month.
Just the cost of the meds comes out to roughly $3.5 Million a year, (and going up every year), of money they budgeted to expand EMT services to the community that is now GONE. Wasted.
There won't be new ambulances or equipment purchased. There won't be more EMTs hired. They will have a hard time maintaining what resources they have.
It sure as hell seems like these people are determined to die and I see no particular reason to stand in their way and spend other people's money and risk other people's lives doing it.
EDIT: I called my brother in law to make sure I had the data accurate. I didn't. I apologize.
He corrected me. The amount of $875,000.00 is correct, but that was PER QUARTER, ( 90 days), not 6 months.
I have corrected the figures above to be accurate.
The financial threat to the community posed by these drug addicts is TWICE as much as I originally reported.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 10-25-2017).]
Originally posted by Threedog: I agree, drugs should not be illegal and the war is a waste. I am actually arguing for you to spend less money, just for it to be directed towards rehab instead of prisons.
Treedog, rehab does not work till a person actually wants to change,.....that is IF they are not permanently brain damaged already. AND, THE reason prison is expensive is the rehab within the system, along with countless other liberal programs. Health Care is a major part of rehab. In fact it can be argued that rehab is more effective in prison because the inmates have incentives to participate. Out in the streets they have little to no guidelines or guidance and even less will power.
Originally posted by Threedog: Why do these people deserve to die?
Why, because it is not like they don't know the dangers or risk, but do it anyways.. THEY MADE THE CHOICE..!!!!!!!!!!!! I know it might kill me, but I'm going to use it anyways.. No one held a gun to their head and said take this..
Sorry, if you can't see this.. You make choices you live and die with.. No different than jumping in front of a train or bus/truck or car.. I am sick of tax dollars going to bringing junkies back , over and over and over again when that money could be put to better use, helping others that are not try'n to off themselves with drugs.. one dose of that drug is 1200.00 That buys a hell of allot of food or cloths to help those in need.. Food banks would be stocked chock full with the money wasted DAILY on these junkies, that get out of the hospital and go right back to taking another hit.. A month ago a Boston emt unit revived the same male 4 times in one day 12.34 am, 6:56 am, 12.40 pm and 8:32 pm ONE MALE.. 4800.00 in narcan (sp?) And what he do the next day, od again and they had to revive him yet again.. Sorry, Done with caring about these people.. It's a game with them, they get the high, od then revived, it brings the high down so they can do it again to get that buzz, knowing they'll get another dose when they od again.. You should get one chance, they revive you they tat your wrist with a symbol. you od again sorry to dam bad get the body bag..
My brother in law manages EMT services in a Southwestern county here in Florida.
A couple of weeks ago he told me that the county had spent well over $1.75 MILLION in unrecoverable funds in the first 6 MONTHS of 2017 providing Atropine and other medications to resuscitate drug addicts that had overdosed. That's ONLY the cost of the medications. Not the total cost in other resources and labor.
They also have to treat the SAME drug addicts as many as 5-6 times a month.
Just the cost of the meds comes out to roughly $3.5 Million a year, (and going up every year), of money they budgeted to expand EMT services to the community that is now GONE. Wasted.
There won't be new ambulances or equipment purchased. There won't be more EMTs hired. They will have a hard time maintaining what resources they have.
It sure as hell seems like these people are determined to die and I see no particular reason to stand in their way and spend other people's money and risk other people's lives doing it.
EDIT: I called my brother in law to make sure I had the data accurate. I didn't. I apologize.
He corrected me. The amount of $875,000.00 is correct, but that was PER QUARTER, ( 90 days), not 6 months.
I have corrected the figures above to be accurate.
The financial threat to the community posed by these drug addicts is TWICE as much as I originally reported.
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
Every point evidence says that drug addiction is a disease, not a choice.
quote
Many people don't understand why or how other people become addicted to drugs. They may mistakenly think that those who use drugs lack moral principles or willpower and that they could stop their drug use simply by choosing to. In reality, drug addiction is a complex disease, and quitting usually takes more than good intentions or a strong will.
Source. It is so damn sad that you are more concerned with punishment than rehabilitation.
And for those who say "well you shouldn't ever do it in the first place". You have never gotten drunk? You have never exceeded the speed limit? Never smoked a cigarette? These are small examples of small, stupid things that almost every person does and didn't have consequences because they were lucky. Other people were not so lucky, yet you say that they made some awful choice that you would never make.
You are looking for something or someone to blame, not a solution to the problem. I get it, you're bitter, you feel as if the country forgot you and no one gives a **** about you. Keep in mind that there are millions of people in this country who bend of backwards to help you without even knowing your name. Even if you don't say thank you, even if you tell them to **** off, they still will. Stop looking for someone to be angry at.
Every point evidence says that drug addiction is a disease, not a choice.
Source. It is so damn sad that you are more concerned with punishment than rehabilitation.
And for those who say "well you shouldn't ever do it in the first place". You have never gotten drunk? You have never exceeded the speed limit? Never smoked a cigarette? These are small examples of small, stupid things that almost every person does and didn't have consequences because they were lucky. Other people were not so lucky, yet you say that they made some awful choice that you would never make.
You are looking for something or someone to blame, not a solution to the problem. I get it, you're bitter, you feel as if the country forgot you and no one gives a **** about you. Keep in mind that there are millions of people in this country who bend of backwards to help you without even knowing your name. Even if you don't say thank you, even if you tell them to **** off, they still will. Stop looking for someone to be angry at.
YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP.. it is a choice.. you are not born with a 8 ball to start taking..? You have to make the choice to use the drug to get hooked on it.. if you never touch it you don't get hooked so your crap of it being an illness is utter bull..
Every point evidence says that drug addiction is a disease, not a choice.
Source. It is so damn sad that you are more concerned with punishment than rehabilitation.
And for those who say "well you shouldn't ever do it in the first place". You have never gotten drunk? You have never exceeded the speed limit? Never smoked a cigarette? These are small examples of small, stupid things that almost every person does and didn't have consequences because they were lucky. Other people were not so lucky, yet you say that they made some awful choice that you would never make.
You are looking for something or someone to blame, not a solution to the problem. I get it, you're bitter, you feel as if the country forgot you and no one gives a **** about you. Keep in mind that there are millions of people in this country who bend of backwards to help you without even knowing your name. Even if you don't say thank you, even if you tell them to **** off, they still will. Stop looking for someone to be angry at.
Threedog, I won't argue the point much further nor will I go searching for data to back up anything. I don't care enough about these losers to put out the effort, much less the funds to revive them. I will tell you one short truth. My dad was an alcoholic, I'm told that's also a disease. Both of my grandfathers were spirited consumers of alcohol and most of my dad's siblings were the same. My dad recognized that he was losing control of his life about the time I was born (I'm told), He quit drinking. Up to that point, I'm told he was a problem for society in general. Fast forward, I'm in the Marine Corp, I'm displaying the same characteristics of the aforementioned relatives. Although I was a hard core, hard charging/documented and award winning Marine, I was also a troubled adult. I was on my way to alcoholism.
I got an early out from the Marine Corps (because I was going back to college and the fact that I had won Marine of the Month (every other month) for the past 18 months and my Commander pulled some strings to help the young Marine get back to school. He told me that my performance as a Marine had set an example for others to follow. What he didn't know was, I was a stinking drunk half the time. My last "party" was my going away/getting out celebration on my 21st birthday.
While not a teetotaler, I limit myself to one if I am in a social setting that alcohol is being served. You see, I am responsible for my decisions and actions, I am responsible for what I do or don't do. I do not and will not feel any sympathy for someone who does not take responsibility for themselves.
All lives are not worth saving. If one chooses to take a path leading to their own destruction, it's still a free country, just don't take someone else with you. You can spend all your time, money and efforts helping these losers, I think we're better off letting them take responsibility for their own decisions and thus, their lives. We all have to grow up some day or die in the attempt.
The end.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-26-2017).]
Problem is, many people here want the people to just die, as everyone the forum is perfect and never makes a single mistake in their lives.
Doing hard drugs isn't a mistake it is a death wish.. Come on man.. knock it off.. It's not like the dangers and risk are not known, It's not a taboo subject that no one talks about , that isn't covered in the news, the music media, and in general.. No one does crack/coke/brown sugar or any of the new street drugs and not know the risks and dangers.. They just say phuck it.. That was their choice.. not a mistake.. A mistake would be if they didn't know the dangers and risk, and you'd have to be living under a rock to not know them..
Again no one is holding a gun to their and say'n take this/try this..
Problem is, many people here want the people to just die, as everyone the forum is perfect and never makes a single mistake in their lives.
I wish death on no one. I hope people can get over their addictions and continue on with life. But I have seen it, the addiction is too hard to kick. Even with professional help, they can make progress, but some how manage to relapse.
I wholeheartedly think that making it harder for them to get the drug in the first place, before becoming addicted to it, is the answer. But, how to accomplish this, is not in my wheel house.
--location-wise, this place cant be beat. EVERYTHING you could possibly want is in summer-walking distance or winter-$10-cab-ride)
"
) all the help you can afford to pay out. That's your choice.
Both of my grandfathers were spirited consumers of alcohol and most of my dad's siblings were the same. My dad recognized that he was losing control of his life about the time I was born (I'm told), He quit drinking. Up to that point, I'm told he was a problem for society in general. Fast forward, I'm in the Marine Corp, I'm displaying the same characteristics of the aforementioned relatives. Although I was a hard core, hard charging/documented and award winning Marine, I was also a troubled adult. I was on my way to alcoholism. 
